Non-Cingular GSM Phones on Cingular

I get great service in Atlanta through Cingular's GSM service - it's
only gotten better since I switched over about 2 years ago.

That said, my contract is up in a few months and I really want a more
full-featured phone, but don't want to sign another contract. After
viewing the vast selection of GSM phones available (mainly at
http://www.gsmarena.com) I've come to the conclusion that it's worth
the premium to me not to have a new phone locked to Cingular's network.
There are very few Cingular-sold phones that even interest me, the
Moto Razr being one of them (reasons to avoid that phone are welcome).

So, other than the constraints of operating at 1900 and GPRS, and
preferably EDGE, is there any reason I can't purchase the phone of my
choice from eBay or elsewhere, swap my SIM card, and then be good to
go? Is there a lot of manual configuration that I'll have to do to get
data service activated? Do I even need to deal with Cingular when I do
something like this?

Thanks,

John

<johnc_22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116619988.598035.254850@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> I get great service in Atlanta through Cingular's GSM service - it's
> only gotten better since I switched over about 2 years ago.
>
> That said, my contract is up in a few months and I really want a more
> full-featured phone, but don't want to sign another contract. After
> viewing the vast selection of GSM phones available (mainly at
> http://www.gsmarena.com) I've come to the conclusion that it's worth
> the premium to me not to have a new phone locked to Cingular's network.
> There are very few Cingular-sold phones that even interest me, the
> Moto Razr being one of them (reasons to avoid that phone are welcome).
>
> So, other than the constraints of operating at 1900 and GPRS, and
> preferably EDGE, is there any reason I can't purchase the phone of my
> choice from eBay or elsewhere, swap my SIM card, and then be good to
> go? Is there a lot of manual configuration that I'll have to do to get
> data service activated? Do I even need to deal with Cingular when I do
> something like this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
Would get at least 1900/850 phone as Cingular is on 850 in a lot of places.

In article <1116619988.598035.254850@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
<johnc_22@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I get great service in Atlanta through Cingular's GSM service - it's
>only gotten better since I switched over about 2 years ago.
>
>That said, my contract is up in a few months and I really want a more
>full-featured phone, but don't want to sign another contract. After
>viewing the vast selection of GSM phones available (mainly at
>http://www.gsmarena.com) I've come to the conclusion that it's worth
>the premium to me not to have a new phone locked to Cingular's network.
> There are very few Cingular-sold phones that even interest me, the
>Moto Razr being one of them (reasons to avoid that phone are welcome).
>
>So, other than the constraints of operating at 1900 and GPRS, and
>preferably EDGE, is there any reason I can't purchase the phone of my
>choice from eBay or elsewhere, swap my SIM card, and then be good to
>go? Is there a lot of manual configuration that I'll have to do to get
>data service activated? Do I even need to deal with Cingular when I do
>something like this?

If the phone is unlocked and covers GSM850 and 1900, it certainly can be
used. You will not have the transparency of phones having Cingular's ESN
firmware, but that does not matter for most people. The GPRS/WAP and MMS
setup cna all be done using over the air browser commands sent from the
web site.

Cool, thanks, that helps a lot.

"Stanley Reynolds" <nospam_stanley_reynolds@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18sje.3591$6k7.65@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>
> <johnc_22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1116619988.598035.254850@g49g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> I get great service in Atlanta through Cingular's GSM service - it's
>> only gotten better since I switched over about 2 years ago.
>>
>> That said, my contract is up in a few months and I really want a more
>> full-featured phone, but don't want to sign another contract. After
>> viewing the vast selection of GSM phones available (mainly at
>> http://www.gsmarena.com) I've come to the conclusion that it's worth
>> the premium to me not to have a new phone locked to Cingular's network.
>> There are very few Cingular-sold phones that even interest me, the
>> Moto Razr being one of them (reasons to avoid that phone are welcome).
>>
>> So, other than the constraints of operating at 1900 and GPRS, and
>> preferably EDGE, is there any reason I can't purchase the phone of my
>> choice from eBay or elsewhere, swap my SIM card, and then be good to
>> go? Is there a lot of manual configuration that I'll have to do to get
>> data service activated? Do I even need to deal with Cingular when I do
>> something like this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
> Would get at least 1900/850 phone as Cingular is on 850 in a lot of
> places.
>
>

According to Cingular's site the ESN is something that allows them to track
my phone should it be stolen or were I to stop paying my bill. I pay my
bills on time and have never lost a cell phone so I can't see why I'd care.
Is there more to the ESN than that?


"Mike S." <retsuhcs@xinap.moc> wrote in message
news:d6ln42$otn$1@reader1.panix.com...
>
> If the phone is unlocked and covers GSM850 and 1900, it certainly can be
> used. You will not have the transparency of phones having Cingular's ESN
> firmware, but that does not matter for most people. The GPRS/WAP and MMS
> setup cna all be done using over the air browser commands sent from the
> web site.
>
>

In article <VEtje.3622$6k7.1592@bignews4.bellsouth.net>,
jc <johnc_22 @ yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>"Mike S." <retsuhcs@xinap.moc> wrote in message
>news:d6ln42$otn$1@reader1.panix.com...
>>
>> If the phone is unlocked and covers GSM850 and 1900, it certainly can be
>> used. You will not have the transparency of phones having Cingular's ESN
>> firmware, but that does not matter for most people. The GPRS/WAP and MMS
>> setup cna all be done using over the air browser commands sent from the
>> web site.
>>
>>
>According to Cingular's site the ESN is something that allows them to track
>my phone should it be stolen or were I to stop paying my bill. I pay my
>bills on time and have never lost a cell phone so I can't see why I'd care.
>Is there more to the ESN than that?

I'm sorry, my typo. I meant to type "ENS" - enhanced network selection. A
measure implemented to smooth the integration of the former AT&T network.
It requires an ENS-capable phone and matching SIM firmware to make
everything appear to the user as the same "virtual" network.

This is really helpful - I read the thread at HowardForums and I
totally get ENS now. Thanks to all of this I now know I have a 32K SIM
and what it means in the grand scheme of things. Let's say I'm going
to buy a Motorola V3 Razr and I have the choice to get one from
Cingular ($199 w/new contract/upgrade) or get one that's unlocked from
somewhere else. If I buy one from somewhere besides Cingular, other
than loss of ENS since there's no guarantee that a non-Cingular V3 will
have it, do I lose other network benefits or Cingular features? Or,
ignoring ENS, is a V3 is a V3 is a V3? Can the same be said for any
other phones that support 850/1900? They may not have ENS but assuming
they are also data capable will be able to take full advantage of
Cingular's data features (text messaging, email, etc)? I may just
break down and sign another contract but I'd rather not.

If I'm asking a really obvious question then I'd love to be given a
link to RTFM?

Oh, and also, any ETA as to when Cingular will be one big happy network
so that ENS is no longer a concern?

Thanks for everyone's help,

John

In article <1116723011.370971.181130@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
<johnc_22@yahoo.com> wrote:
>This is really helpful - I read the thread at HowardForums and I
>totally get ENS now. Thanks to all of this I now know I have a 32K SIM
>and what it means in the grand scheme of things. Let's say I'm going
>to buy a Motorola V3 Razr and I have the choice to get one from
>Cingular ($199 w/new contract/upgrade) or get one that's unlocked from
>somewhere else. If I buy one from somewhere besides Cingular, other
>than loss of ENS since there's no guarantee that a non-Cingular V3 will
>have it, do I lose other network benefits or Cingular features? Or,
>ignoring ENS, is a V3 is a V3 is a V3? Can the same be said for any
>other phones that support 850/1900? They may not have ENS but assuming
>they are also data capable will be able to take full advantage of
>Cingular's data features (text messaging, email, etc)? I may just
>break down and sign another contract but I'd rather not.

The only thing that will be guaranteed, pretty much, is your ability to
make and receive phone calls. WAP and MMS can be restored manually, or
using over the air settings, as long as the provider of your V3 has not
disabled the menus that allow such changed to be entered, and also that
there are blank "slots" left in the Web Sessions list to be customized.
Any other carrier specific features, such as AOL Instant Messenger, are a
crap shoot.

>Oh, and also, any ETA as to when Cingular will be one big happy network
>so that ENS is no longer a concern?

People have pointed out that _prior_ to their acquisition of AT&T, the
elements comprising "Cingular" last year had still not been fully
integrated. So I'd take any such estimates with healthy skepticism.

On 21 May 2005 17:50:11 -0700, johnc_22@yahoo.com wrote:

>This is really helpful - I read the thread at HowardForums and I
>totally get ENS now. Thanks to all of this I now know I have a 32K SIM
>and what it means in the grand scheme of things. Let's say I'm going
>to buy a Motorola V3 Razr and I have the choice to get one from
>Cingular ($199 w/new contract/upgrade) or get one that's unlocked from
>somewhere else. If I buy one from somewhere besides Cingular, other
>than loss of ENS since there's no guarantee that a non-Cingular V3 will
>have it, do I lose other network benefits or Cingular features? Or,
>ignoring ENS, is a V3 is a V3 is a V3? Can the same be said for any
>other phones that support 850/1900? They may not have ENS but assuming
>they are also data capable will be able to take full advantage of
>Cingular's data features (text messaging, email, etc)? I may just
>break down and sign another contract but I'd rather not.
>
>If I'm asking a really obvious question then I'd love to be given a
>link to RTFM?
>
>Oh, and also, any ETA as to when Cingular will be one big happy network
>so that ENS is no longer a concern?
>
>Thanks for everyone's help,
>
>John

I have a French RAZR and black RAZR that came from Switzerland (wife
uses one). The network switching seems to work pretty well.

Do you have that link anout ENS? I think there is a SEEM edit to
enable it. It's pretty easy if you have a cable anyway.

In article <cnr391l93bki2t2ugjh36roedu69frg15c@4ax.com>,
<nospam@ptd.net> wrote:
>On 21 May 2005 17:50:11 -0700, johnc_22@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>I have a French RAZR and black RAZR that came from Switzerland (wife
>uses one). The network switching seems to work pretty well.
>
>Do you have that link anout ENS? I think there is a SEEM edit to
>enable it. It's pretty easy if you have a cable anyway.

As I understand it, ENS requires additional code in the firmware. If it
isn't there, I can't see how a seem edit can enable a feature that isn't
supported by the phone's firmware. There are seem edits to enable manual
network selection (disabled by Cingular SIMs when operating on domestic
network) and to display the actual tower assignment (actually the reverse
of what ENS tries to do). Can you provide a link to this?

I am using a V3 bought unlocked in UK with a new Cingular SIM card. Only problem is that the phone continually displays the roaming symbol, and seems to be on the AT&T network. When I search for available networks, it only finds T-Mobile and AT&T. Not sure if this will have any implications on my billing. Anyway, as a result, I am having limited other functionality right now.

It sounds to me like the best bet is to get the Cingular RAZR (but I want a
black one!) and then just pay someone who really knows how to unlock the
thing so that I can use other networks when I want to (overseas mainly). I
have heard that some Cingular markets are getting black RAZR's, and T-Mobile
may be offering them as contract phones soon. That should boost domestic
supplies and I might even be able to get an unlocked but Cingular branded
black RAZR and that would be the best of both worlds.


"Paulo" <Paulo.1pidoy@nospam.cellphoneforums.net> wrote in message
news:Paulo.1pidoy@nospam.cellphoneforums.net...
>
> I am using a V3 bought unlocked in UK with a new Cingular SIM card. Only
> problem is that the phone continually displays the roaming symbol, and
> seems to be on the AT&T network. When I search for available networks,
> it only finds T-Mobile and AT&T. Not sure if this will have any
> implications on my billing. Anyway, as a result, I am having limited
> other functionality right now.
>
>
> --
> Paulo
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Cell Phone Forums: http://cellphoneforums.net
> View this thread: http://cellphoneforums.net/t176138.html
>

On Mon, 23 May 2005 18:35:03 -0500, Paulo
<Paulo.1pidoy@nospam.cellphoneforums.net> wrote:

>
>I am using a V3 bought unlocked in UK with a new Cingular SIM card. Only
>problem is that the phone continually displays the roaming symbol, and
>seems to be on the AT&T network. When I search for available networks,
>it only finds T-Mobile and AT&T. Not sure if this will have any
>implications on my billing. Anyway, as a result, I am having limited
>other functionality right now.

One RAZR displays Cingular, AT&T and T-Mobile. I forget if the
roaming indicator displays for T-M but it does NOT display with AT&T.

The other phone displays Cingular or Cingular with the roaming
indicator on (which means AT&T).

I'm wondering if you are in an area with nothing but AT&T towers.

You will not have a billing problem and the SIM is what controls what
towers you can connect to.

I can turn my roaming indicator off but I don't mind it.

On Mon, 23 May 2005 15:48:22 +0000 (UTC), retsuhcs@xinap.moc (Mike S.)
wrote:

>
>In article <cnr391l93bki2t2ugjh36roedu69frg15c@4ax.com>,
> <nospam@ptd.net> wrote:
>>On 21 May 2005 17:50:11 -0700, johnc_22@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>I have a French RAZR and black RAZR that came from Switzerland (wife
>>uses one). The network switching seems to work pretty well.
>>
>>Do you have that link anout ENS? I think there is a SEEM edit to
>>enable it. It's pretty easy if you have a cable anyway.
>
>As I understand it, ENS requires additional code in the firmware. If it
>isn't there, I can't see how a seem edit can enable a feature that isn't
>supported by the phone's firmware. There are seem edits to enable manual
>network selection (disabled by Cingular SIMs when operating on domestic
>network) and to display the actual tower assignment (actually the reverse
>of what ENS tries to do). Can you provide a link to this?

That makes sense. It will probably require a FLEX to get that.

I'll look into it when I get a chance and post back. I found this
stuff in the motorola section of howardforums but the details are
really on www.motomodders.net and www.motox.us.