Waiting For GPS

Been switching back and forth between a Moto MPX220 and a Treo for a long
time. I'm overdue for an upgrade, but I'm waiting for a phone with
integrated GPS. Real GPS, not the cell tower GPS lite stuff. Who thinks the
provider is going to try to squeeze a usage fee out of customers when they
start marketing phones like the Nokia N95? I read about a Blackberry Pearl
due for a fall release that will have integrated GPS and I'm very
interested. I will never pay Cingular or ATT a penny to use the GPS chip the
phone manufacturer built in or the satellites tax dollars launched into
orbit, but I just know they'll try to get it. Is it even legal for them to
charge for a feature that they didn't invest in? I want it to work like it
does in my car. I turn it on...it works. I don't get charged every time I
access it. Does anyone have info on how the providers intend to handle this
issue?

---

› See More: Waiting For GPS

At 16 May 2007 06:26:46 -0400 Ric wrote:

> Been switching back and forth between a Moto MPX220 and a Treo for a
> long
> time. I'm overdue for an upgrade, but I'm waiting for a phone with
> integrated GPS. Real GPS, not the cell tower GPS lite stuff. Who thinks
> the
> provider is going to try to squeeze a usage fee out of customers when
> they
> start marketing phones like the Nokia N95?


Cinular has already offered a GPS phone: the HP 6515; a Pocket PC phone
with integrated GPS. And they didn't "squeeze" fees out of anyone.

> Is it even legal for them to
> charge for a feature that they didn't invest in? I want it to work like
> it does in my car. I turn it on...it works.

Anything that isn't illegal is legal! ;-)

I assume carriers will try to sell ancially services to GPS-equipped
customers, like nav software, but that's no different than selling mobile
TVor message bundles.

> I don't get charged every time I
> access it. Does anyone have info on how the providers intend to handle
> this issue?

As I said, Cingular already had a GPS phone, and no, they didn't charge
you to use it, but I think they offered a subscription to some navigation
software that accessed real-time traffic and POI data. You could use
your own software instead, of course.

In article <F%[email protected]>, "Ric" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Been switching back and forth between a Moto MPX220 and a Treo for a long
> time. I'm overdue for an upgrade, but I'm waiting for a phone with
> integrated GPS. Real GPS, not the cell tower GPS lite stuff. Who thinks the
> provider is going to try to squeeze a usage fee out of customers when they
> start marketing phones like the Nokia N95? I read about a Blackberry Pearl
> due for a fall release that will have integrated GPS and I'm very
> interested. I will never pay Cingular or ATT a penny to use the GPS chip the
> phone manufacturer built in or the satellites tax dollars launched into
> orbit, but I just know they'll try to get it. Is it even legal for them to
> charge for a feature that they didn't invest in? I want it to work like it
> does in my car. I turn it on...it works. I don't get charged every time I
> access it. Does anyone have info on how the providers intend to handle this
> issue?

Standalone GPS units are so cheap (and small), and require no service
charge, why bother with a phone? Are you really going to need a GPS
every day? Things to consider.

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Ric wrote:
> Been switching back and forth between a Moto MPX220 and a Treo for a long
> time. I'm overdue for an upgrade, but I'm waiting for a phone with
> integrated GPS. Real GPS, not the cell tower GPS lite stuff. Who thinks the
> provider is going to try to squeeze a usage fee out of customers when they
> start marketing phones like the Nokia N95? I read about a Blackberry Pearl
> due for a fall release that will have integrated GPS and I'm very
> interested. I will never pay Cingular or ATT a penny to use the GPS chip the
> phone manufacturer built in or the satellites tax dollars launched into
> orbit, but I just know they'll try to get it. Is it even legal for them to
> charge for a feature that they didn't invest in? I want it to work like it
> does in my car. I turn it on...it works. I don't get charged every time I
> access it. Does anyone have info on how the providers intend to handle this
> issue?

It depends if you're talking about using _just_ the GPS satellites, or
doing something like Verizon and Sprint do which is a hybrid system.

Certainly you should be able to buy a PDA phone that has a GPS and run
whatever GPS applications that the PDA's operating system supports. You
can do that now with something like the N95. The provider isn't involved.

What Verizon and Sprint charge for is the use of their network in their
location based services, but if you had a CDMA PDA phone with a GPS,
where the OS supported a GPS application, you could use the GPS without
charge as well.

When you start talking about a subsidized handset, the carriers may try
to disable any integrated GPS functionality that works without paying
them something.

"Kurt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <F%[email protected]>, "Ric" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Been switching back and forth between a Moto MPX220 and a Treo for a long
>> time. I'm overdue for an upgrade, but I'm waiting for a phone with
>> integrated GPS. Real GPS, not the cell tower GPS lite stuff. Who thinks
>> the
>> provider is going to try to squeeze a usage fee out of customers when
>> they
>> start marketing phones like the Nokia N95? I read about a Blackberry
>> Pearl
>> due for a fall release that will have integrated GPS and I'm very
>> interested. I will never pay Cingular or ATT a penny to use the GPS chip
>> the
>> phone manufacturer built in or the satellites tax dollars launched into
>> orbit, but I just know they'll try to get it. Is it even legal for them
>> to
>> charge for a feature that they didn't invest in? I want it to work like
>> it
>> does in my car. I turn it on...it works. I don't get charged every time I
>> access it. Does anyone have info on how the providers intend to handle
>> this
>> issue?
>
> Standalone GPS units are so cheap (and small), and require no service
> charge, why bother with a phone? Are you really going to need a GPS
> every day? Things to consider.
>
> ...not loving the Batman look carrying around a phone, camera and a GPS. I
> originally posted the question after reading some discussion about such
> GPS usage fees, but I think it was in the European market...just made me a
> bit irritable.

"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ric wrote:
>> Been switching back and forth between a Moto MPX220 and a Treo for a long
>> time. I'm overdue for an upgrade, but I'm waiting for a phone with
>> integrated GPS. Real GPS, not the cell tower GPS lite stuff. Who thinks
>> the provider is going to try to squeeze a usage fee out of customers when
>> they start marketing phones like the Nokia N95? I read about a Blackberry
>> Pearl due for a fall release that will have integrated GPS and I'm very
>> interested. I will never pay Cingular or ATT a penny to use the GPS chip
>> the phone manufacturer built in or the satellites tax dollars launched
>> into orbit, but I just know they'll try to get it. Is it even legal for
>> them to charge for a feature that they didn't invest in? I want it to
>> work like it does in my car. I turn it on...it works. I don't get charged
>> every time I access it. Does anyone have info on how the providers intend
>> to handle this issue?
>
> It depends if you're talking about using _just_ the GPS satellites, or
> doing something like Verizon and Sprint do which is a hybrid system.
>
> Certainly you should be able to buy a PDA phone that has a GPS and run
> whatever GPS applications that the PDA's operating system supports. You
> can do that now with something like the N95. The provider isn't involved.
>
> What Verizon and Sprint charge for is the use of their network in their
> location based services, but if you had a CDMA PDA phone with a GPS, where
> the OS supported a GPS application, you could use the GPS without charge
> as well.
>
> When you start talking about a subsidized handset, the carriers may try to
> disable any integrated GPS functionality that works without paying them
> something.

Crippling devices is what makes me look outside the carriers inventory for
replacement phones.

In article <[email protected]>, "Ric" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Kurt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <F%[email protected]>, "Ric" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Been switching back and forth between a Moto MPX220 and a Treo for a long
> >> time. I'm overdue for an upgrade, but I'm waiting for a phone with
> >> integrated GPS. Real GPS, not the cell tower GPS lite stuff. Who thinks
> >> the
> >> provider is going to try to squeeze a usage fee out of customers when
> >> they
> >> start marketing phones like the Nokia N95? I read about a Blackberry
> >> Pearl
> >> due for a fall release that will have integrated GPS and I'm very
> >> interested. I will never pay Cingular or ATT a penny to use the GPS chip
> >> the
> >> phone manufacturer built in or the satellites tax dollars launched into
> >> orbit, but I just know they'll try to get it. Is it even legal for them
> >> to
> >> charge for a feature that they didn't invest in? I want it to work like
> >> it
> >> does in my car. I turn it on...it works. I don't get charged every time I
> >> access it. Does anyone have info on how the providers intend to handle
> >> this
> >> issue?
> >
> > Standalone GPS units are so cheap (and small), and require no service
> > charge, why bother with a phone? Are you really going to need a GPS
> > every day? Things to consider.
> >
> > ...not loving the Batman look carrying around a phone, camera and a GPS. I
> > originally posted the question after reading some discussion about such
> > GPS usage fees, but I think it was in the European market...just made me a
> > bit irritable.

I see enough of the types with the earpiece and a phone clipped to the
belt. Pretty Batman to me.

I use a GPS in the car only - lock it in the glove compartment when not
in use. Can't imagine needing one to walk around the city with.

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At 16 May 2007 17:06:54 -0700 Kurt wrote:

> I see enough of the types with the earpiece and a phone clipped to the
> belt. Pretty Batman to me.


Agreed. Although I find BT headsets pretty invaluable myself, I keep
mine hidden under my shirt on a neck strap and only pull it out when
needed.


> I use a GPS in the car only - lock it in the glove compartment when not
> in use. Can't imagine needing one to walk around the city with.

Same here. I found a pretty neat model at Semsons called the iBlue that
has a "deep sleep" standby mode. I can leave it "on" all the time, and
shuts itself off when it's not communicating with my phone, and wakes up
when the phone looks for it. The battery will last in sleep mode for
about a month between recharges. This way it can stay hidden in the
little "sunglasses compartment" by the domelight when in use or not. If
it fails to connect to the phone, I know it's time for a recharge!

"Kurt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Ric" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Kurt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > In article <F%[email protected]>, "Ric" <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Been switching back and forth between a Moto MPX220 and a Treo for a
>> >> long
>> >> time. I'm overdue for an upgrade, but I'm waiting for a phone with
>> >> integrated GPS. Real GPS, not the cell tower GPS lite stuff. Who
>> >> thinks
>> >> the
>> >> provider is going to try to squeeze a usage fee out of customers when
>> >> they
>> >> start marketing phones like the Nokia N95? I read about a Blackberry
>> >> Pearl
>> >> due for a fall release that will have integrated GPS and I'm very
>> >> interested. I will never pay Cingular or ATT a penny to use the GPS
>> >> chip
>> >> the
>> >> phone manufacturer built in or the satellites tax dollars launched
>> >> into
>> >> orbit, but I just know they'll try to get it. Is it even legal for
>> >> them
>> >> to
>> >> charge for a feature that they didn't invest in? I want it to work
>> >> like
>> >> it
>> >> does in my car. I turn it on...it works. I don't get charged every
>> >> time I
>> >> access it. Does anyone have info on how the providers intend to handle
>> >> this
>> >> issue?
>> >
>> > Standalone GPS units are so cheap (and small), and require no service
>> > charge, why bother with a phone? Are you really going to need a GPS
>> > every day? Things to consider.
>> >
>> > ...not loving the Batman look carrying around a phone, camera and a
>> > GPS. I
>> > originally posted the question after reading some discussion about such
>> > GPS usage fees, but I think it was in the European market...just made
>> > me a
>> > bit irritable.
>
> I see enough of the types with the earpiece and a phone clipped to the
> belt. Pretty Batman to me.
>
> I use a GPS in the car only - lock it in the glove compartment when not
> in use. Can't imagine needing one to walk around the city with.


I'd find a smartphone with integrated GPS invaluable in NYC. I visit
frequently, but I'm not a native and often get all turned around coming up
out of the subway. It would be great if my phone could tell me which
direction to start walking. The unit that came with my car has saved the day
numerous times. It shines in urban areas with countless wrong turns to be
made, but out in the sticks, it often makes the most incomprehensible route
suggestions taking me off the highway for a scenic jaunt through the
backwoods for several miles only to dump me right back on the same highway I
was on for no apparent reason. As far as wearing a bluetooth earpiece goes,
mine stays in the car. I get weirded out by folks walking around talking to
themselves. It not easy to tell the difference between a busy executive
making deals and a paranoid schizophrenic.

In article <[email protected]>,
Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:

> At 16 May 2007 17:06:54 -0700 Kurt wrote:
>
> > I see enough of the types with the earpiece and a phone clipped to the
> > belt. Pretty Batman to me.
>
>
> Agreed. Although I find BT headsets pretty invaluable myself, I keep
> mine hidden under my shirt on a neck strap and only pull it out when
> needed.

Yes, I have the one for the Treo. Also hide it. Always keep phone in
pocket.
>
>
> > I use a GPS in the car only - lock it in the glove compartment when not
> > in use. Can't imagine needing one to walk around the city with.
>
> Same here. I found a pretty neat model at Semsons called the iBlue that
> has a "deep sleep" standby mode. I can leave it "on" all the time, and
> shuts itself off when it's not communicating with my phone, and wakes up
> when the phone looks for it. The battery will last in sleep mode for
> about a month between recharges. This way it can stay hidden in the
> little "sunglasses compartment" by the domelight when in use or not. If
> it fails to connect to the phone, I know it's time for a recharge!
>
The Garmin 330 has been great for me. I need a display large enough to
read and unit with touch screen to easily program. Things fits in
pocket, too.
Phone display is too small.

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To reply by email, remove the word "space"

"Kurt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> At 16 May 2007 17:06:54 -0700 Kurt wrote:
>>
>> > I see enough of the types with the earpiece and a phone clipped to the
>> > belt. Pretty Batman to me.
>>
>>
>> Agreed. Although I find BT headsets pretty invaluable myself, I keep
>> mine hidden under my shirt on a neck strap and only pull it out when
>> needed.
>
> Yes, I have the one for the Treo. Also hide it. Always keep phone in
> pocket.
>>
>>
>> > I use a GPS in the car only - lock it in the glove compartment when not
>> > in use. Can't imagine needing one to walk around the city with.
>>
>> Same here. I found a pretty neat model at Semsons called the iBlue that
>> has a "deep sleep" standby mode. I can leave it "on" all the time, and
>> shuts itself off when it's not communicating with my phone, and wakes up
>> when the phone looks for it. The battery will last in sleep mode for
>> about a month between recharges. This way it can stay hidden in the
>> little "sunglasses compartment" by the domelight when in use or not. If
>> it fails to connect to the phone, I know it's time for a recharge!
>>
> The Garmin 330 has been great for me. I need a display large enough to
> read and unit with touch screen to easily program. Things fits in
> pocket, too.
> Phone display is too small.


I think my Treo would be large enough to use on a car mount yet small enough
to be useful as a phone. The slimmer Blackberry Pearl due for release in the
fall is the GPS enabled phone I'm waiting for. I'd hold out for the Nokia
N95 because of the five megapixel camera, but I'm sure I'd be disappointed
in the pics it takes as photography is a long time hobby .

At 17 May 2007 08:35:12 -0700 Kurt wrote:

> The Garmin 330 has been great for me. I need a display large enough to
> read and unit with touch screen to easily program. Things fits in
> pocket, too.
> Phone display is too small.

My "phone" is a T-Mobile MDA- a Pocket PC Phone with a 3" touchscreen, so
that's not an issue for me! ;-)

In article <[email protected]>, "Ric" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Kurt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> At 16 May 2007 17:06:54 -0700 Kurt wrote:
> >>
> >> > I see enough of the types with the earpiece and a phone clipped to the
> >> > belt. Pretty Batman to me.
> >>
> >>
> >> Agreed. Although I find BT headsets pretty invaluable myself, I keep
> >> mine hidden under my shirt on a neck strap and only pull it out when
> >> needed.
> >
> > Yes, I have the one for the Treo. Also hide it. Always keep phone in
> > pocket.
> >>
> >>
> >> > I use a GPS in the car only - lock it in the glove compartment when not
> >> > in use. Can't imagine needing one to walk around the city with.
> >>
> >> Same here. I found a pretty neat model at Semsons called the iBlue that
> >> has a "deep sleep" standby mode. I can leave it "on" all the time, and
> >> shuts itself off when it's not communicating with my phone, and wakes up
> >> when the phone looks for it. The battery will last in sleep mode for
> >> about a month between recharges. This way it can stay hidden in the
> >> little "sunglasses compartment" by the domelight when in use or not. If
> >> it fails to connect to the phone, I know it's time for a recharge!
> >>
> > The Garmin 330 has been great for me. I need a display large enough to
> > read and unit with touch screen to easily program. Things fits in
> > pocket, too.
> > Phone display is too small.
>
>
> I think my Treo would be large enough to use on a car mount yet small enough
> to be useful as a phone.

You'll sing a different song when you start needing reading glasses. :-)
For me, it's bad enough pressing all the tiny buttons on my Treo to
navigate around Google Maps for L.A. traffic.


> The slimmer Blackberry Pearl due for release in the
> fall is the GPS enabled phone I'm waiting for. I'd hold out for the Nokia
> N95 because of the five megapixel camera, but I'm sure I'd be disappointed
> in the pics it takes as photography is a long time hobby .

Cell phone cameras were designed for the Japanese upskirt enthusiast.

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

"Kurt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Ric" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Kurt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > In article <[email protected]>,
>> > Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> At 16 May 2007 17:06:54 -0700 Kurt wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I see enough of the types with the earpiece and a phone clipped to
>> >> > the
>> >> > belt. Pretty Batman to me.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Agreed. Although I find BT headsets pretty invaluable myself, I keep
>> >> mine hidden under my shirt on a neck strap and only pull it out when
>> >> needed.
>> >
>> > Yes, I have the one for the Treo. Also hide it. Always keep phone in
>> > pocket.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > I use a GPS in the car only - lock it in the glove compartment when
>> >> > not
>> >> > in use. Can't imagine needing one to walk around the city with.
>> >>
>> >> Same here. I found a pretty neat model at Semsons called the iBlue
>> >> that
>> >> has a "deep sleep" standby mode. I can leave it "on" all the time,
>> >> and
>> >> shuts itself off when it's not communicating with my phone, and wakes
>> >> up
>> >> when the phone looks for it. The battery will last in sleep mode for
>> >> about a month between recharges. This way it can stay hidden in the
>> >> little "sunglasses compartment" by the domelight when in use or not.
>> >> If
>> >> it fails to connect to the phone, I know it's time for a recharge!
>> >>
>> > The Garmin 330 has been great for me. I need a display large enough to
>> > read and unit with touch screen to easily program. Things fits in
>> > pocket, too.
>> > Phone display is too small.
>>
>>
>> I think my Treo would be large enough to use on a car mount yet small
>> enough
>> to be useful as a phone.
>
> You'll sing a different song when you start needing reading glasses. :-)
> For me, it's bad enough pressing all the tiny buttons on my Treo to
> navigate around Google Maps for L.A. traffic.


Already there...I'm 55, but still a gadget freak. I can just about manage
the Treo without my glasses, but I'm gonna need longer arms soon.