Why iPhone for Cingular Only?

Agent_C wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 20:21:11 -0700, "Moustaffa Moustamegwomfa"
> <Moustaffa@Moustamegwomfa.com> wrote:
>
>> Why would Steve Jobs choose Cingular?
>
> I'll speculate that this decision was at least in part influenced by
> the lack of disparity in service/coverage between Verizon and Cingular
> in California. They're roughly equal in most areas.

Hardly. In the urban parts of the urban counties, they are roughly
equal. But go to a rural part of an urban county, and the differences
are significant. These differences are reflected in all the independent
surveys.

If the other Steve founder of Apple, Wozniak, had been consulted, he
would have confirmed this. He actually moved because he couldn't get GSM
coverage in the rural part of Los Gatos where he lived!

In any case, according to all reports, Apple did approach Verizon first,
and Verizon wasn't interested due to the terms that Apple wanted.
Verizon, with it's significantly higher numbers of net additions, could
afford to be choosy.

It goes further than that however. It's also CDMA's superiority over GSM
in terms of coverage, something I experienced several times in the past
week up in some rural areas of Southern Oregon. For whatever reason, the
CDMA carriers in that area have done a very good job of coverage in the
rural areas, while the GSM carriers have not.

> Contrast that with the East Coast, where Verizon is clearly superior
> in most areas.

I've experienced the exact opposite. While Verizon also tops Cingular in
every survey of east coast urban areas, I've not experienced the large
areas of "no-coverage" that exist with Cingular in places like the Bay
Area of California. I attributed it to the more dense demographics of
the Atlantic Seaboard, and Southeast.


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---

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Yazzan Gable wrote:
> In article <Hqlfi.470643$115.448101@newsfe10.phx>,
> "Moustaffa Moustamegwomfa" <Moustaffa@Moustamegwomfa.com> wrote:
>
>> Why is the iphone going to be offered by Cingular only? I understand that
>> Verizon is the number-one cell phone service provider both for superb
>> coverage and high-speed data. Why would Steve Jobs choose Cingular? If I
>> were Steve Jobs, I would want to release my iphone an the best network and
>> according to all reviews, that is undeniably Verizon.
>
>
> Hmmm. Could it be that the iPhone is quad-band GSM and there are more
> GSM phones in the world than there are Verizon phones that run on their
> specific flavour of CDMA?

No. Apple knew that when it approached Verizon prior to approaching
Cingular.

> Also that Cingular/ATT would probably NOT cripple the phone's bluetooth
> abilities and NOT insist that the wi-fi be taken off...

LOL, yeah that's a real possibility.

One thing I don't like about the iPhone is that the SIM card is
non-removable. If you're traveling overseas you can't stick in a prepaid
SIM card, you have to roam internationally, at considerable cost.



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"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:46829c36$0$27157$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Yazzan Gable wrote:
>> In article <Hqlfi.470643$115.448101@newsfe10.phx>,
>> "Moustaffa Moustamegwomfa" <Moustaffa@Moustamegwomfa.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Why is the iphone going to be offered by Cingular only? I understand
>>> that Verizon is the number-one cell phone service provider both for
>>> superb coverage and high-speed data. Why would Steve Jobs choose
>>> Cingular? If I were Steve Jobs, I would want to release my iphone an the
>>> best network and according to all reviews, that is undeniably Verizon.
Sprint has better data speeds, but yeah they have good coverage.

>> Hmmm. Could it be that the iPhone is quad-band GSM and there are more
>> GSM phones in the world than there are Verizon phones that run on their
> No. Apple knew that when it approached Verizon prior to approaching
> Cingular.
Yeah far more gsm in the world.

>> Also that Cingular/ATT would probably NOT cripple the phone's bluetooth
>> abilities and NOT insist that the wi-fi be taken off...

thats because you can use any unlocked gsm phones on AT&T (Cingular)'s
network as long as it supports
its frequencies.

> LOL, yeah that's a real possibility.
>
> One thing I don't like about the iPhone is that the SIM card is
> non-removable. If you're traveling overseas you can't stick in a prepaid
> SIM card, you have to roam internationally, at considerable cost.

It has a sim card tray. And I'm sure there will be hacks out rather quickly
that will unlock the iphone, and there's nothing Apple can do about it.
Usually but I'm sure not with the iphone, AT&T will provide unlock codes 90
days after service starts. There is no law that prevents you from unlocking
any
phone, its a DMCA exemption.

Unless you are dying for the iphone, and I admit its nice, I would wait abit
before getting one. My kids Samsung Sync's on AT&T do most of what the
iphone
does with out alot of the pizzazz and it is 3g hsdpa, and has stereo
bluetooth, but no wifi. And they were almost free.

Michael Paris wrote:

> does with out alot of the pizzazz and it is 3g hsdpa, and has stereo
> bluetooth, but no wifi. And they were almost free.

The next version of the iPhone will almost certainly have 3G. It was
rather amusing to read one reviewers comment about using the iPhone on
AT&T's EDGE network:

"David Pogue of the New York Times called AT&T's EDGE network
"excruciatingly slow." "You almost ache for a dial-up modem," he said."

Of course it's not AT&T's fault that Apple didn't put HSDPA into the
iPhone. I think one of the reasons that Apple approached Verizon first
was because the Verizon EV-DO network has far more coverage than the
AT&T HSDPA network. Apple may have been reluctant to include HSDPA on
the iPhone because of fears of complaints from users that they couldn't
get an HSDPA connection. Or it may have been a compromise to be able to
differentiate service plans, and offer lower cost plans for the iPhone
than are offered for the HSDPA network.

> was because the Verizon EV-DO network has far more coverage than the
> AT&T HSDPA network. Apple may have been reluctant to include HSDPA on the
> iPhone because of fears of complaints from users that they couldn't get an
> HSDPA connection. Or it may have been a compromise to be able to
> differentiate service plans, and offer lower cost plans for the iPhone
> than are offered for the HSDPA network.

I don't think thats the reason but, it could be, but to complain about
AT&T's slow network under edge is not their fault, its the fault of the
phone not supporting 3g. Maybe EVDO is faster then AT&T's , but not to the
point of making much of a difference. And if that is the sole criteria,
Sprints EVDO is faster yet, but again, for a phone, doubtful it would make a
big real world difference. Maybe if tethering.

I do agree, the next iphone will support 3g hsdpa or whatever is out at the
time.

Another critisim is lack of flash, java and aps. Well the first two
probably will be solved by the summers end, the last will take sometime, but
no different then when PalmOS or WM first came out, it will take developers
time.

This phone is a fashion statement as much as being what it is, and this is
nothing new, in phones, watches and other electronic items, I don't intend
on getting one at this time, I don't think those who want one out of the
gate are wrong either, good luck to them, and if you see me, let me play
with it. :-) Meanwhile I will be very happy with my 8525 and my carry light
Samsung SGH-A727 which I switch sims back and forth according to me needs at
the time.

Charles wrote:
> In article <4683dce1$0$27162$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think one of the reasons that Apple approached Verizon first
>
> You keep saying that but you don't know if Apple approached Verizon
> first.

"http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/30/verizon_turned_down_iphone/"
among many other reports.

In article <468469cc$0$27237$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> "http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/30/verizon_turned_down_iphone/"
> among many other reports.

The Register is not reliable, for example the article it states Rogers
has signed up in Canada, which is not confirmed. I think you are
confusing Verizon turning it down, with Verizon being offered it first.
It is more likely that it was offered to both Cingular and Verizon,
probably around the same time.

--
Charles

In article <280620072203091974%fort@his.com.remove.invalid>,
Charles <fort@his.com.remove.invalid> wrote:
> You keep saying that but you don't know if Apple approached Verizon
> first.

Yes we do:

<http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2007-01-28-verizon-iphone_x.htm>


--
--Tim Smith

In article <reply_in_group-12EDD9.22372807072007@news.supernews.com>,
Tim Smith <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

> In article <280620072203091974%fort@his.com.remove.invalid>,
> Charles <fort@his.com.remove.invalid> wrote:
> > You keep saying that but you don't know if Apple approached Verizon
> > first.
>
> Yes we do:
>
> <http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2007-01-28-verizon-iphone_x.htm>

That is not proof that they approached Verizon first. It is likely
they negotiated with both Cingular and Verizon, playing both against
each other.

--
Charles

Mitchell Regenbogen wrote:
> Charles <fort@his.com.remove.invalid> wrote in news:080720070800099983%
> fort@his.com.remove.invalid:
>
>> In article <reply_in_group-12EDD9.22372807072007@news.supernews.com>,
>> Tim Smith <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <280620072203091974%fort@his.com.remove.invalid>,
>>> Charles <fort@his.com.remove.invalid> wrote:
>>>> You keep saying that but you don't know if Apple approached Verizon
>>>> first.
>>> Yes we do:
>>>
>>> <http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2007-01-28-verizon-iphone_x.htm>
>> That is not proof that they approached Verizon first. It is likely
>> they negotiated with both Cingular and Verizon, playing both against
>> each other.
>
> Definitely a possibility, if you live under a rock.

There is a lot more evidence that Apple approached Verizon first, and
actually rushed out the GSM design when it didn't work out with Verizon.
Someone in ba.internet was analyzing the FCC applications as well, which
showed the same thing, Cingular was essentially a last-minute switch for
Apple.