new logging feature found (iPhone)

Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in news:frvek7$m3$1
@aioe.org:

> Google Maps without GPS is like YouTube with
> still images.
>

Oh, I LIKE that one!...(c;

Great tagline!

.........

Rap is to music what Etch-A-Sketch is to art.

---

› See More: new logging feature found (iPhone)

Tom Payne <[email protected]> wrote in news:tp-068E52.09201221032008
@news.giganews.com:

> It is MUCH more than Google maps. Assuming that you are not just a shill
> for a certain competing cell phone manufacturer, I'd suggest you read up
> on the iPhones features before making such foolish comments.
>
>

Todd's a big wheel at Nokia. He's the guy who dreamed up the Morph!

Cool phone, Todd! I want one!

News wrote:

> Does not apply to many HP iPaqs that support/display native A-GPS.

Or to the HTC devices with an integral GPS.

It's a virtual certainty that a future iPhone will have an integrated
GPS, or at least allow the use of a Bluetooth GPS.

The iPhone is the perfect platform for a GPS, with its huge amount of
Flash, and its large screen.

Apple's just a little behind the curve right now. They need to get the
3G iPhone out the door, and fix the issues with the current model (i.e.
the lack of voice-dialing).

Personally, I think an application for the iPhone, using an external
Bluetooth GPS, is an okay solution, and would have benefits in terms of
battery life and in keeping the iPhone as thin as it is now. For
handheld use the module can be coupled mechanically to the iPhone, while
for in-car use the module can be optimally placed on the dash, with the
iPhone in a better location.

SMS wrote:
> News wrote:
>
>> Does not apply to many HP iPaqs that support/display native A-GPS.
>
>
> Or to the HTC devices with an integral GPS.
>
> It's a virtual certainty that a future iPhone will have an integrated
> GPS, or at least allow the use of a Bluetooth GPS.
>
> The iPhone is the perfect platform for a GPS, with its huge amount of
> Flash, and its large screen.
>
> Apple's just a little behind the curve right now. They need to get the
> 3G iPhone out the door, and fix the issues with the current model (i.e.
> the lack of voice-dialing).
>
> Personally, I think an application for the iPhone, using an external
> Bluetooth GPS, is an okay solution, and would have benefits in terms of
> battery life and in keeping the iPhone as thin as it is now. For
> handheld use the module can be coupled mechanically to the iPhone, while
> for in-car use the module can be optimally placed on the dash, with the
> iPhone in a better location.



GPS must be onboard/integral. Anything else is uncompetitive.

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 20 Mar 2008 14:57:09 -0400 Tom Payne wrote:
>
>> I was speaking of putting GPS on cell phones as being obsolete. As I
>> stated, with GPS now on just about every car and portable units so cheap
>> there is no reason to have one on your phone.
>
>
> Same is true of MP3 players, yet that's the iPhone's main feature.
>
> And, if you recall the early iPhone commercials, Google Maps was/is a
> leading feature as well. Google Maps without GPS is like YouTube with
> still images.

And don't forget the fact that GPS is standard on very few cars. It's a
very high cost optional feature, which is why portable units sell so
well. A good portable unit is still $250.

Apple is behind the curve with the iPhone by not having an integrated
GPS, and/or not allowing Bluetooth to be used with an external GPS. It'd
be a great platform for a GPS with its large touch screen, large amount
of Flash, and long battery life.

"News" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> Personally, I think an application for the iPhone, using an external
>> Bluetooth GPS, is an okay solution, and would have benefits in terms of
>> battery life and in keeping the iPhone as thin as it is now. For handheld
>> use the module can be coupled mechanically to the iPhone, while for
>> in-car use the module can be optimally placed on the dash, with the
>> iPhone in a better location.
>
>
>
> GPS must be onboard/integral. Anything else is uncompetitive.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Even today, precious few phones include a
"real" GPS- most rely on the carrier's E911 GPS data sold on a subscription
basis. I think BT GPS support is good enough, if you're trying to keep
size/battery life in check. With the current crop of tiny
(keychain/"lipstick") GPS units with high sensitivity, good battery life and
auto on/off, Apple could easily market an "official" Apple iPhone/iPod Touch
keychain BT GPS (you know, resell an existing OEM product for twice the
money in a brushed aluminum case with an Apple logo on it!) and that would
effective end the "no GPS" objection, which, IMO, has to be right up their
with no voice dial, no 3rd party apps, no 3G and no Exchange support as
leading iPhone negatives. Exchange and 3rd party are being addressed, 3G
will be in a newer model, so if they add BT GPS support and voice dial, I'll
have very little left to complain about! (But I'm sure i'll think of
something when Oxford posts something else stupid!)

"Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom Payne <[email protected]> wrote in news:tp-068E52.09201221032008
> @news.giganews.com:
>
> Todd's a big wheel at Nokia. He's the guy who dreamed up the Morph!
>
> Cool phone, Todd! I want one!

If I was a big wheel at Nokia, I'd have stuck an unlocked GSM module in your
N800 and marketed it as a $400 "iPhone killer" last June!

Todd Allcock wrote:
>
> "News" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>>> Personally, I think an application for the iPhone, using an external
>>> Bluetooth GPS, is an okay solution, and would have benefits in terms
>>> of battery life and in keeping the iPhone as thin as it is now. For
>>> handheld use the module can be coupled mechanically to the iPhone,
>>> while for in-car use the module can be optimally placed on the dash,
>>> with the iPhone in a better location.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> GPS must be onboard/integral. Anything else is uncompetitive.
>
>
> I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Even today, precious few phones
> include a "real" GPS


IPaq and HTC... among others.

Frankly, no one needs another iDongle, iCable, or iKey and to run an
unnecessary BT radio simultaneously, which compromises battery life.

BTW, the onboard A-GPS on the iPaq (which syncs to Google Maps) will put
you right in the pickle barrel (if that's where you are, or want to be).

At 21 Mar 2008 15:00:55 -0400 News wrote:

> > I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Even today, precious few phones
include a "real" GPS
>
>
> IPaq and HTC... among others.


The iPaqs and HTCs came to mind for me as well... ...then I couldn't
think of any others! ;-)


> Frankly, no one needs another iDongle, iCable, or iKey and to run an
unnecessary BT radio simultaneously, which compromises battery life.


I'm not sure BT strains the battery much more than an onboard GPS.

> BTW, the onboard A-GPS on the iPaq (which syncs to Google Maps) will put
you right in the pickle barrel (if that's where you are, or want to be).

I certainty agree onboard is preferable to external BT, but it's an
acceptable compromise, particular for the several million iPhones already
sold. While I'd like to have internal GPS on my next phone (I use an
external GPS with my HTC Wizard) I wouldn't let the GPS be the deciding
factor in a phone purchase (but if it's there, great.)

I love the WinMo OS, but I've never been overly impressed by the hardware-
every phone has some achille's heel, whether it's a slow processor (my
Wizard), slow video (Tilt), or stupid quasi-compatible square screen (HP's
recent models, Treos)

I've been leaning towards the Kaiser/Tilt (if T-Mobile gets around to
releasing it) as my next phone, since HP seems to have cancelled the 914,
but I may hold out for the Sony X1 later in the year.

Todd Allcock wrote:

> I certainty agree onboard is preferable to external BT, but it's an
> acceptable compromise, particular for the several million iPhones already
> sold. While I'd like to have internal GPS on my next phone (I use an
> external GPS with my HTC Wizard) I wouldn't let the GPS be the deciding
> factor in a phone purchase (but if it's there, great.)

One big advantage I've found with an external GPS module is that while
driving you can have the antenna on the dash, with the rest of the unit
in a better location (closer to where a built in GPS would be).

Even a mini-USB jack where you plugged in an external GPS module would
be fine, but that's very un-Apple.

In some ways it's nice for it to be built in or at least powered by the
device. I have an old PDA with a CompactFlash GPS unit. Kind of nice to
not have to carry around the GPS part all the time.

I saw the unlocked HTC Tilt with the integrated GPS at Costco, and it
weighs 50% more than the iPhone and is about 1.8x as thick. It's good a
lot more functionality, and they didn't leave out crucial features like
the iPhone did, but geez I can't imagine carrying that around all the
time and using it as a phone.

> I love the WinMo OS, but I've never been overly impressed by the hardware-
> every phone has some achille's heel, whether it's a slow processor (my
> Wizard), slow video (Tilt), or stupid quasi-compatible square screen (HP's
> recent models, Treos)

Well the iPhone hardware isn't perfect either. I was listening to an
electronics guru on a radio talk show this morning fawning over the
iPhone, until he got to the lack of 3G and admitted that web browsing
was just painfully slow.

SMS <[email protected]> wrote in news:47e3d8ff$0$36329
[email protected]:

> For
> handheld use the module can be coupled mechanically to the iPhone

Naw...it's better in my jean's watchpocket. That's where the Nokia GPS
goes for walking around navigation....(c;

"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> One big advantage I've found with an external GPS module is that while
> driving you can have the antenna on the dash, with the rest of the unit in
> a better location (closer to where a built in GPS would be).

Yeah, but's that's less of an issue these days. I'm amazed at the reception
abilities of modern day GPS receivers vs. older ones. My first GPS (a
Pharos SiRF II CF card for an PocketPC) needed to be on the dash under the
windshield. My latest (a BT GPS with a Nemerix chipset) works if I stuff it
in the center console or even my pants pocket.


> Even a mini-USB jack where you plugged in an external GPS module would be
> fine, but that's very un-Apple.

It's pretty "un-high tech" looking these days.


> In some ways it's nice for it to be built in or at least powered by the
> device. I have an old PDA with a CompactFlash GPS unit. Kind of nice to
> not have to carry around the GPS part all the time.

Yeah, but I chose my GPS (a Semsons' iBlue) to fill three criteria: small,
(for it's day- the new "keychain" models are really small!) long battery
life (it's rated for up to 30 hours use on a charge, but it's more like 20)
and a mini-USB charge port so my HTC Wizard phone can share the same
charger. (I hate carrying a bunch of different chargers around. Between my
wife and I we have three mini-USB phones and two mini-USB GPS units.
Whatever car we're in, we always have the right DC charger for all of our
crap.)


> I saw the unlocked HTC Tilt with the integrated GPS at Costco, and it
> weighs 50% more than the iPhone and is about 1.8x as thick. It's good a
> lot more functionality, and they didn't leave out crucial features like
> the iPhone did, but geez I can't imagine carrying that around all the time
> and using it as a phone.

Depends on your POV, I guess- prior to using a "converged" device, I always
carried my Pocket PC with me (it was larger than the Tilt) and a separate
phone. Even a relatively large phone like the Tilt beats carrying two
separate devices, and if you generally use a BT headset (my Motorola has a
mini-USB charge port! and voice dial, you rarely actually use the phone
as a phone, unless you need to enter DTMF tones.

>> I love the WinMo OS, but I've never been overly impressed by the
>> hardware-
>> every phone has some achille's heel, whether it's a slow processor (my
>> Wizard), slow video (Tilt), or stupid quasi-compatible square screen
>> (HP's
>> recent models, Treos)
>
> Well the iPhone hardware isn't perfect either. I was listening to an
> electronics guru on a radio talk show this morning fawning over the
> iPhone, until he got to the lack of 3G and admitted that web browsing was
> just painfully slow.

I'm a T-Mobile customer. What's 3G?

Kidding aside, EDGE was never really a problem for many of us until phones
with better browsers (like the iPhone) developed. When mobile I tend to
stick to PDA/mobile formatted sites if possible, or use Google's XHTML
converter, which makes EDGE far less painful. The "problem" with the
iPhone, is that the "real web" experience demands "real web" speeds. I
understand Apple eschewing 3G, but I'm surprised they didn't set up their
own proxy servers for the iPhone (like Opera did for Opera Mini), or con
AT&T into doing it, so that could speedup the page load process for iPhones
on EDGE. There's a great browser for Pocket PCs/WinMo phones called
Thunderhawk, that really isn't a "browser" per se. It works through a
dedicated proxy (like Opera Mini), and basically just sends graphic images
of webpages to the phone so the actual page rendering is done on their
servers, not your (relatively) underpowered, low bandwidth phone. When I
tried Thunderhawk, it rendered faster on GPRS (30kbps) than any other Winmo
browser did on EDGE, since you were really just uploading screen taps and
downloading 320x240 images over the network.

The only downside to Thunderhawk, is that it's a service rather than a
product- you pay for usage of the server ($5/month or $50/year) rather than
a one time fee for the software. I used a beta for a few months when I had
a separate PPC and GPRS phone, but ditched it when I bought an EDGE WinMo
phone, since EDGE was "good enough" for my uses, and Thunderhawk's service
couldn't render one particular work website (after they upgraded it to the
over-Java-scripted mess it is today!) that I have to access. (Opera Mini can
partially render it, but generally I just remote into my home PC when I have
to access it on the road from my phone.)

SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

> Well the iPhone hardware isn't perfect either. I was listening to an
> electronics guru on a radio talk show this morning fawning over the
> iPhone, until he got to the lack of 3G and admitted that web browsing
> was just painfully slow.

There are so many WiFi networks to choose from that very few iPhone
users use the EDGE network ay all. At any given time I have at least 5
open networks to choose from. And of course that makes the 3G look like
dial-up.

"Tom Payne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> There are so many WiFi networks to choose from that very few iPhone
> users use the EDGE network ay all.

And your source for that? I've used WiFi Pocket PCs and more recently a
WinMo phone with WiFi for many years, and I find it necessary to use a
cellular data plan. WiFi isn't nearly as ubiquitous as you pretend. While
the number of WiFi APs have steadily risen over the last few years, most
consumers have wised up and locked them down. When I first used my PPC
wirelessly, I'd estimate only 1/3 or less were secure. Now 8 or 9 out of 10
are.

> At any given time I have at least 5 open networks to choose from.

You don't get around very much then. If you lived in a modern city, rather
than Minneapolis, you wouldn't find it so easy, perhaps.

> And of course that makes the 3G look like dial-up.

How would you know? In prior posts you've told us you've never owned a cell
phone prior to the iPhone, so you'd have no first hand knowledge of 3G
access. WiFi is a transmission medium- not an internet provider. Those "5
open APs" you can choose from could just as easily be connected to a budget
256k DSL line than as a 12Mb cable connection. You just don't know. I've
used hotel WiFi systems that were as slow as molasses when 30 hotel guests
are all sharing an overloaded 1.5Mb Hughes satellite internet connection!

It's a moot point anyway- all of your anti-3G sentiment will disappear and
be forgotten when the 3G iPhone is released later this year, then you'll be
telling all of us how wonderful 3G is.

In article <iUaFj.50$y%[email protected]>, Todd Allcock
<[email protected]> wrote:

> While the number of WiFi APs have steadily risen over the last few
> years, most consumers have wised up and locked them down. When I
> first used my PPC wirelessly, I'd estimate only 1/3 or less were
> secure. Now 8 or 9 out of 10 are.

I have found the same thing. Particularly in the last year. Most WiFi
is now locked. Right after reading your post I looked at the networks
in my Condo. There were 19 networks. Only one was open.

--
Charles