Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A87E8CC5C483noonehomecom@208.49.80.253...
> 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:4b52a109-2207-4e10-882b-
> 290c1b5e7a16@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
>
>> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several
>> locations around the world.
>>
>> The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big
>> time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone. The
>> only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop
>> charger or a mobile charger almost all the time.
>>
>> I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.
>>
>> Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick ass wireless phone
>> not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office.
>>
>>
>
> Stalling tactic to clean out the warehouses and warehouses full of old,
> unsold iPhones Apple "held back" to make 'em drool standing in line in
> the cold, last winter.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't understand the battery problem. iPhone is nearly the same
> chipset as the Nokia N800 ARM processor with its 4.5" very bright 800
> pixel display. The only difference is the tiny, low-powered, PCS phone
> chips the Linux tablet doesn't have, but the Linux tablet runs its
> Bluetooth chipset to use the Sellphone link. With the display on full
> power, I get 4.5 hours. If I reduce the display to 1/2 brightness, I
> get nearly 7 continuous hours. If I'm listening to streaming audio over
> the BT link through the Sellphone link and the display turns off because
> I don't click anything, it'll run for days! The stock Nokia battery is
> 1300 mAh, same as they put in some Sellphones.
>
> Does the iPhone get physically warm or hot to the touch after you make a
> long call? I've never held one that long. Does it get hotter from the
> display being on or from making long phone calls? That might identify
> the power hogs inside the thin case.
>
> I suppose you COULD wear one of these:
> http://www.batteryspace.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=3186
> and plug the car cord into it, which would recharge the 3G iPhone in
> between embarrassing coffee shop encounters. Tell them you're a patriot
> and want to display the flag. It says it will run 3.4 hours with a 50
> watt load! iPhones, even 3G ones, should run all day and arrive home
> fully recharged so you can talk while the fannypack recharges without
> plugging the iPhone in...for the first couple of hours, at least.
>
> Print up a phony PRESS PASS and make it into an ID badge. They'll think
> you're a famous CNN videographer on assignment to cover the Starbuck's
> new wifi company switch! People are stupid. They'll believe anything.
>
> Hey, for no apparent reason, AAPL stock is rising back towards its
> previous $200 price! That's the really important part to ol' Stevie J.
> I'm sure this news will change that trend if it gets out.....


The iPhone battery is very small. The funny thing is, Apple has had over a
year to solve this battery problem with 3G. This is why they said from day
one that they used edge chipset as the battery drain was so much. My treo
755 uses 3G and battery life compared to the iPhone is night and day. My
friend tells me Bluetooth sucks his iPhone more then any thing else on his
Iphone.

I think your right about them wanting to clear out stock before they start
shipping the new one's. Once they start selling the new, who would buy the
old ones. I'm wanting to know what the new data rate is going to be for the
3G service. I'll say they will charge close to the other 3G packages, but
throw in the 200 SMS for free.

Mark Crispin <MRC@Washington.EDU> wrote in
news:alpine.WNT.1.10.0804211708490.5204@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washignton.EDU:

> The backlight is a huge power drain on many WM phones. In most
> firmware, the default backlight level while on battery power is set
> way too high. Try cranking it down to the minimum (one notch above
> backlight completely off).
>

The backlight is a fairly high load, but is NOTHING like the load of the
TRANSMITTER!

Ever notice how hot a Sellphone gets when you are not standing in full view
of a tower that's some distance away, causing the cell to crank up your
controllable output power to maximum so it can hear you on the shared
channel with the other 24 users (CDMA) on that channel. LEVEL is very
important on shared channel schemes.

When you are far from the tower, yakking away an causing lots of
transmitter packets loaded with voice data, that transmitter gets HOT!
That heat is the inefficiency of the transmitter's output power IC, a large
power IC on the case as its heat sink....warming your ear.

To get 150mw out of the antenna jack, about 300mw has to be put in as DC
from the battery pack. I = P/E (hey, I taught electronics for 20 years!)
..3W/3.8V Li-Ion cell power = 78ma...just in the output stage! This is why
the TALK time is so much LESS than the standby time of a simply Sellphone.
Total transmitter power is probably 100ma....which eats the battery even
MORE than the backlight. Add them together and you have iPhone on a too-
small battery pack......to make it THINNER!

Everything has its price.....to be THIN.

"Kevin Weaver" <kevinkeithweaver@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:RXcPj.1346$ix6.1292@newssvr11.news.prodigy.ne t:

> The iPhone battery is very small. The funny thing is, Apple has had
> over a year to solve this battery problem with 3G. This is why they
> said from day one that they used edge chipset as the battery drain was
> so much. My treo 755 uses 3G and battery life compared to the iPhone
> is night and day. My friend tells me Bluetooth sucks his iPhone more
> then any thing else on his Iphone.
>

Too much "thinness" glitz. If they'd made it just a couple of mm thicker,
they'd have had room for a MUCH bigger battery to power it. The Air
suffers from the same thinness problem.

The Bob <nospam@bob.com> wrote in
news:Xns9A87D79F5F654bob@216.196.97.136:

> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. Oh,
> wait a minute- yes we would. It has been discussed ad nauseum in
> these groups.
>
>

So, what, just to satisfy you we never bring up the same topic for the new
people who never read it before? Isn't that kind of....well.....stupid?

Larry wrote:
> Ever notice how hot a Sellphone gets when you are not standing in full view
> of a tower that's some distance away, causing the cell to crank up your
> controllable output power to maximum so it can hear you on the shared
> channel with the other 24 users (CDMA) on that channel. LEVEL is very
> important on shared channel schemes.

CDMA Course 101 -
1) CDMA does not have a fixed number of channels.
2) Output power level is determined by the noise floor.

GSM Course 101 -
1) 24 users per channel.
2) Power level is fixed fixed.

> (hey, I taught electronics for 20 years!)

Okaaaayyyyyyyyyy.....

At 22 Apr 2008 03:21:24 +0000 Larry wrote:

> Here's yet ANOTHER legacy from the old Ni-Cd days. Li-Ion batteries
> only discharged half way, then immediately recharged ASAP, will cycle
> nearly indefinately, far longer than the life of the devices they are
> in! There is no old Ni-Cd 500 recharge cycles on Li-Ion batteries. How
> long they run is totally dependent upon how they are treated by the
> users and how much load heating the engineers put upon them in their
> device design.


I was referring to deep discharges- I thought the limit was 300-500, but I
could easily be confusing the number with the recharge limit of older
battery types.


> Test it for yourselves. Li-Ion batteries are FLOAT batteries that LOVE
> to be immediately recharged from ANY state of discharge.


I try to recharge mid-day when possible/convenient, but frankly, I'm simply
not going to let a $15 battery run my life. If abusing the sucker costs me
$15/year, so be it. Rather that than turn my cellphone into a "corded
phone!" ;-)

Todd Allcock wrote:

> I was referring to deep discharges- I thought the limit was 300-500, but I
> could easily be confusing the number with the recharge limit of older
> battery types.

Li-Po batteries can have about 500 complete discharge cycles, Li-Ion
about 1000. But they last much longer if not completely discharged.

> I try to recharge mid-day when possible/convenient, but frankly, I'm simply
> not going to let a $15 battery run my life. If abusing the sucker costs me
> $15/year, so be it. Rather that than turn my cellphone into a "corded
> phone!" ;-)

The typical use pattern of cell phones, digital cameras, notebook
computers, etc., favors lithium based batteries.

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
news:***2o9$8h0$1@aioe.org:

> I try to recharge mid-day when possible/convenient, but frankly, I'm
> simply not going to let a $15 battery run my life. If abusing the
> sucker costs me $15/year, so be it. Rather that than turn my
> cellphone into a "corded phone!" ;-)
>
>
>

What pisses me off is the cheapskate bastards eliminated the CONVENIENT,
EASY-TO-USE, drop in chargers we had on the old flipphones. It gave you a
place to "hang" your phone on your desk or beside your bed so it didn't get
shoved off onto the floor, or worse.....it automatically recharged your
battery WITHOUT you having to fight some damned little USB connector you
can hardly see that MUST be plugged in a certain way, which is really
stupid.

The drop in stand encouraged charging, which I supposed was hard on battery
revenues....

On my desk was a quad, or was it octal, charging stand. Each slot would
charge the phone(s) with battery attached...or...charge an extra battery,
without it being attached to the phone. If you got longwinded, you simply
swapped the easy-to-swap battery pack, which was the back of the phone.
You didn't have to dig around inside some slick, shiny girly case, fight
the damned battery hold down gadget to pry it out without a pry bar, then
replace it all, a real PITA on any new phone, now. No, press the button,
slide the whole back off the phone and slide another one on and you were
ready-to-go.

They talk a lot longer than the POWERFUL old transmitters, due to their
very low power, not some digital magic, now....but their construction, now
just sucks for user convenience.

God I HATE USB charging!

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:12:45 -0600, Todd Allcock
<elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:

>At 21 Apr 2008 14:41:04 -0700 4phun wrote:
>> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several
>> locations around the world.
>>
>> The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big
>> time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone. The
>> only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop
>> charger or a mobile charger almost all the time.
>>
>> I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.
>>
>> Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick ass wireless phone
>> not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office.
>
>Ugh. I feel like we're playing role reversal because _I'm_ defending the
>iPhone!
>
>It's April, not June. Not only does Apple has time to iron it out, but
>also expectations may have to be adjusted for this device. Yes, I know the
>iPhone v1 has a good battery life for a smartphone, but frankly a fully-
>featured phone only really needs to make it through ONE DAY of use. With
>push-e-mail and bluetooth enabled, and maybe an hour to two of WiFi, my
>WinMo phone will start begging for a charge (literally, with on-screen pop-
>ups!) after 14-16 hours.

Not to mention Push-to-talk/walkie-talkie phones that have to keep
"advertising" their presence to the network. Now that sucks current.


>
>And that's fine- I charge it overnight and it's good to go the next day.
>Sure I wish it only needed to be charged once a week like my old Nokia
>candy-bar with B&W display and no GPRS, but if you want high-powered
>features, the phone is going to swallow some battery power.
>
>If it can run from 6AM to 10PM on a single charge, with a few hours of iPod
>and browsing use that'll be good enough. Apple might design a slick phone
>with a great UI, but they're bound by the same laws of physics as every
>other manufacturer- it's unrealistic to expect Apple to somehow eek 3 times
>the battery life out of their phone than their competitors can!
>
>For those who need ubiquitous high-speed data, it's worth the tradeoff.
>For those that don't, they can stick with iPhone V1, or turn 3G off...
>
>

> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you.

And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his garbage were it
not for people quoting the whole damned thing.

Please, trim the replies.

> > (hey, I taught electronics for 20 years!)
>
> Okaaaayyyyyyyyyy.....

Indeed, living proof of "those that can't do, teach"?

Bill Kearney wrote:
>> > (hey, I taught electronics for 20 years!)
>>
>> Okaaaayyyyyyyyyy.....
>
> Indeed, living proof of "those that can't do, teach"?

Like wise, those that can't finish vet school try for
a human medical doctor course plan.

"4phun" <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4b52a109-2207-4e10-882b-290c1b5e7a16@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several
> locations around the world.
>
> The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big
> time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone. The
> only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop
> charger or a mobile charger almost all the time.
>
> I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.
>
> Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick ass wireless phone
> not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office.
>

Chapter and verse plz

"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A88544A43308noonehomecom@208.49.80.253...

> What pisses me off is the cheapskate bastards eliminated the CONVENIENT,
> EASY-TO-USE, drop in chargers we had on the old flipphones. It gave you a
> place to "hang" your phone on your desk or beside your bed so it didn't
> get
> shoved off onto the floor, or worse.....it automatically recharged your
> battery WITHOUT you having to fight some damned little USB connector you
> can hardly see that MUST be plugged in a certain way, which is really
> stupid.

Six of one, half-dozen of the other- while I too miss the convenient drop in
stands, I'm jazzed by the ubiquity of mini-USB as a charging (and
connection) "standard."

When traveling, I can take one charger (an AC charger with a built-in 22mAH
battery pack and two USB output ports) and a pair of USB to mini-USB cables
to handle two phones, two bluetooth headsets, a BT GPS, two kiddie MP3/MP4
media players, and even my wife's keychain digital picture frame! By
carrying the appropriate charge/sync cables, the same AC "wallbrick" also
handles my Zunes, an iPod, my backup prepaid phone (a Verizon WinMo phone on
PagePlus for where my T-Mo service is spotty), my old PDAs, etc. With the
charger's included battery pack, I have emergency charging power on
airplanes if the Zunes and media players can't handle a long flight without
a little help.

Mini-USB as REALLY cut down the size of my electronics "travel support kit."
It's worth the trade off of losing the drop-in chargers of the past.

> If you got longwinded, you simply
> swapped the easy-to-swap battery pack, which was the back of the phone.
> You didn't have to dig around inside some slick, shiny girly case, fight
> the damned battery hold down gadget to pry it out without a pry bar, then
> replace it all, a real PITA on any new phone, now.

Yeah, but that has advantages as well- I had three completely different
models of Nokia phones with entirely different form factors that all used
the same "take off the cover and replace it" battery, which by coincidence
also was the same battery used by my first BT GPS module (may it rest in
peace.) I never had to carry the stupid proprietary charger for that GPS- I
just swapped the battery with my phone's when the GPS ran down, and charged
the low battery in the phone.

Now my new GPS has a proprietary battery, but a "standard" charger- such is
progress, I guess!


> No, press the button,
> slide the whole back off the phone and slide another one on and you were
> ready-to-go.

Again, advantages and disadvantages- it was very rare that those molded case
batteries worked in any other phone, unless the new model was styled just
like the old (i.e. Nokia 5120, 6120, 5160, 6160, etc. or the various Moto
MicroTACs, etc.)

> God I HATE USB charging!

Again, one charger for "everything" has certain conveniences!

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:V7kPj.5272$iK6.4580@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...

> The typical use pattern of cell phones, digital cameras, notebook
> computers, etc., favors lithium based batteries.

Certainly- unfortunately, my WinMo phone favors a portable Honda gasoline
powered generator... ;-)