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  1. #1
    SMS
    Guest
    This weekend I went on a boy scout camping trip with my son's troop to
    Lava Beds National Monument, just south of the Oregon border in
    California. We took AmTrak up to Klamath Falls from San Jose, then drove
    down to the monument.

    One parent on the trip had an iPhone, and had downloaded the camp
    schedule, the park maps, the cave maps, the food menus, the list of what
    to bring, etc, into his phone. Alas, the other five parents, all with
    simple Verizon phones, could do none of this cool stuff.

    The only advantage the Verizon users had over the iPhone user was that
    we could actually use our phones as phones. There is no GSM service in
    that part of California. Even though the AT&T coverage viewer shows
    partner coverage at Lava Beds, there was no signal (at least on the iPhone).

    The iPhone owner was telling us (jokingly) that 'if Steve Jobs had
    wanted me to be able to make a call in this area, that he would have had
    AT&T provide coverage here.'



    See More: Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon




  2. #2
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon

    [email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > My Verizon Palm 700 can do each of those things.
    >
    >


    ......and it will be still running in the morning, unlike the iPhone with
    the dead battery...(c;




  3. #3
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon

    Larry wrote:
    > [email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:
    >
    >> My Verizon Palm 700 can do each of those things.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > .....and it will be still running in the morning, unlike the iPhone with
    > the dead battery...(c;
    >


    Unfortunately, my V325i picked up an AMPS signal at some point at hung
    onto it, quickly draining the battery. We were all at one bar of digital
    on an extended network (not sure which one), but I had the only tri-band
    phone that switched to AMPS (the rural carriers have kept it active)
    when the digital signal was lost, probably inside the caves.



  4. #4
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon

    SMS wrote:

    > Unfortunately, my V325i picked up an AMPS signal at some point at hung
    > onto it, quickly draining the battery. We were all at one bar of digital
    > on an extended network (not sure which one), but I had the only tri-band
    > phone that switched to AMPS (the rural carriers have kept it active)
    > when the digital signal was lost, probably inside the caves.


    I told the iPhone guy about PagePlus, and he's going to sign up with
    them for a phone to use as a phone when out of the urban area. We do a
    lot of trips with this scout troop that are in areas with no GSM
    coverage, but that have CDMA and/or AMPS coverage.



  5. #5
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon

    SMS <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > SMS wrote:
    >
    >> Unfortunately, my V325i picked up an AMPS signal at some point at
    >> hung onto it, quickly draining the battery. We were all at one bar of
    >> digital on an extended network (not sure which one), but I had the
    >> only tri-band phone that switched to AMPS (the rural carriers have
    >> kept it active) when the digital signal was lost, probably inside the
    >> caves.

    >
    > I told the iPhone guy about PagePlus, and he's going to sign up with
    > them for a phone to use as a phone when out of the urban area. We do a
    > lot of trips with this scout troop that are in areas with no GSM
    > coverage, but that have CDMA and/or AMPS coverage.
    >


    Too bad ATT/Apple won't allow him to connect DUN over Bluetooth to a better
    system out in the boonies.




  6. #6
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon

    Larry wrote:

    > Too bad ATT/Apple won't allow him to connect DUN over Bluetooth to a better
    > system out in the boonies.


    That's true. This is one case where you'd be much better off decoupling
    the PDA, web pad, tablet, notebook, etc. device from the cell phone.
    However this would mean that he'd have to have a second data account on
    CDMA, which isn't available under prepaid.

    IMVAIO, you don't need to be on-line while camping, but it can be useful
    to have cellular coverage for making calls in case of emergency. Even if
    I had an iPhone (or other GSM phone) I'd want to carry a CDMA/AMPS phone
    to use in case of emergency when traveling outside GSM service areas.



  7. #7
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon

    At 27 May 2008 14:58:48 -0700 SMS wrote:

    > That's true. This is one case where you'd be much better off decoupling
    > the PDA, web pad, tablet, notebook, etc. device from the cell phone.


    Depends on the platform- some smartphones, particularly WinMo phones, can
    connect to the internet via DUN as well as via their internal cellular radio,

    so one doesn't necessarily need to lug around a separate PDA all the time-
    their PDA phone can also function as a plain PDA when necessary.

    > However this would mean that he'd have to have a second data
    > account on CDMA, which isn't available under prepaid.


    Actually PagePlus, likely via a loophole Verizon has yet to close, has
    unlimited 1x (14.4kbps) data (that Verizon calls QNC, or "Quick2Net"
    depending on the handset.) Unfortunately, only older handsets support
    this, although some newer models can be modded to. In my case, my eBay
    Samsung i600 WinMo Smartphone supports it "out of the box" so I can browse
    the web (slowly) as well as send/receive POP/IMAP e-mail, and even have up-
    to-date access to my contacts, calendar and tasks via Exchange. It doesn't
    even count against my prepaid minutes. I can even tether my T-Mo WinMo
    phone via infrared to the i600 if needed (but since the i600 duplicates
    most of the T-Mo phone's important functions, I've never bothered except as
    a "proof of concept.")

    Obviously, if Verizon closes this "free QNC" loophole, I still have a fully
    functional PagePlus phone and can update the e-mail and Exchange info, if
    necessary, via a net-connected PC.

    > IMVAIO...


    Care to translate?


    > you don't need to be on-line while camping, but it can be useful
    > to have cellular coverage for making calls in case of emergency. Even if
    > I had an iPhone (or other GSM phone) I'd want to carry a CDMA/AMPS
    > phone to use in case of emergency when traveling outside GSM service areas.




    The only disadvantage to my i600 is lack of AMPS, but that (unfortunately)
    seems to be a temporary deficiency... :-( In either case, it's data
    capabilities trump the slight lack of coverage the lack of AMPS represents.






  8. #8
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon

    Todd Allcock wrote:

    > The only disadvantage to my i600 is lack of AMPS, but that (unfortunately)
    > seems to be a temporary deficiency... :-( In either case, it's data
    > capabilities trump the slight lack of coverage the lack of AMPS represents.


    We'll see how temporary the deficiency is. Not all the CDMA/AMPS
    carriers rushed to turn off AMPS, because doing so would have resulted
    in a lot of lost coverage. Either they'll wait until so few AMPS capable
    handsets exist that there's no reason to keep it going anymore, or
    they'll wait until they are able to add enough towers to compensate for
    the shorter range of CDMA (which will likely never happen in a lot of
    areas).



  9. #9
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon

    SMS <[email protected]> wrote in news:Iq%_j.2750$xZ.1598
    @nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com:

    > IMVAIO, you don't need to be on-line while camping, but it can be useful
    > to have cellular coverage for making calls in case of emergency. Even if
    > I had an iPhone (or other GSM phone) I'd want to carry a CDMA/AMPS phone
    > to use in case of emergency when traveling outside GSM service areas.
    >
    >


    Alltel and Verizon have already shut down AMPS across SC and the South.
    I'd be amazed if it's working, tonight, in those mountains, too.

    I lit off my AMPS bagphone I've carried in each vehicle for years while way
    out in the country last week. I got no AMPS connection on A or B anywhere.
    AMPS is dead.

    Data service while camping would sure come in handy to watch the various
    weather services available over the phone. It comes in very handy as we
    sail close offshore, too, so we know when it's best to head for safe
    harbor. I like having that weather radar picture right in front of me on
    the little tablet...as well as Virtual Earth's satellite photos on Maemo
    Mapper coupled to the BT GPS fix.




  10. #10
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon

    Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in news:g1i6up$cvr$2
    @aioe.org:

    > Actually PagePlus, likely via a loophole Verizon has yet to close, has
    > unlimited 1x (14.4kbps) data (that Verizon calls QNC, or "Quick2Net"
    > depending on the handset.)


    Hmm.. Verizon must be hobbling the speed of 1X. 1X will go 110Kbps on the
    Alltel system where EVDO may not be available at 700-1000Kbps.




  11. #11
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon

    At 28 May 2008 01:47:41 +0000 Larry wrote:
    > Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in news:g1i6up$cvr$2
    > @aioe.org:
    >
    > > Actually PagePlus, likely via a loophole Verizon has yet to close, has
    > > unlimited 1x (14.4kbps) data (that Verizon calls QNC, or "Quick2Net"
    > > depending on the handset.)

    >
    > Hmm.. Verizon must be hobbling the speed of 1X. 1X will go 110Kbps on

    the
    > Alltel system where EVDO may not be available at 700-1000Kbps.


    Sorry- I probably have the terminology wrong- (the i600 is my first CDMA
    phone! I was an AMPS and TDMA guy prior to using GSM.) I thought 1x was
    the "first gen" CDMA data. This, then, would be whatever came before 1x!
    (The equivalent of "CSD" on GSM and TDMA.)





  12. #12
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon

    Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in news:g1iia5$pan$1
    @aioe.org:

    > This, then, would be whatever came before 1x!
    >


    We used to plug the phone cable from the XT modem into a telephone
    interface box that put the audio tones from the modem out on the air via
    AMPS to whatever BBS you wanted to connect to, at some blistering speed
    like 1200 baud or 2400 baud or 4800 baud. Rich people with fancy modems
    could get all the way up to 14.4Kbaud, but our BBS club couldn't afford
    such luxuries. AMPS wouldn't do well over about 28.8 but the 56K modems
    knew enough to backpedal because the phone lines wouldn't, either...(c;

    Ahh...sitting for HOURS, totally enthralled, downloading the latest CP/M,
    8080 machine code, TRS-DOS and those fancy new Microsoft DOS 1.0 programs
    from the computer club's twin modem, PC-XT, 4.77 Mhz BBS located in a
    closet at the History Department of the College of Charleston at 3AM.....

    Life was much simpler, then......until someone ELSE in the house PICKED UP
    THE PHONE!!!........DAMMIT!

    "Daddy! I wanna call Missy!"

    2 hours of downloading RUINT!




  13. #13
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon

    At 28 May 2008 03:37:38 +0000 Larry wrote:

    > We used to plug the phone cable from the XT modem into a telephone
    > interface box that put the audio tones from the modem out on the air via
    > AMPS to whatever BBS you wanted to connect to, at some blistering speed
    > like 1200 baud or 2400 baud or 4800 baud. Rich people with fancy modems
    > could get all the way up to 14.4Kbaud, but our BBS club couldn't afford
    > such luxuries. AMPS wouldn't do well over about 28.8 but the 56K modems
    > knew enough to backpedal because the phone lines wouldn't, either...(c;



    I'm not sure AMPS could handle anything near 28.8. Best I ever hit was 7200,
    and that was with a full signal and a stiff tailwind! ;-)





  14. #14
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon

    Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > At 28 May 2008 03:37:38 +0000 Larry wrote:
    >
    >> We used to plug the phone cable from the XT modem into a telephone
    >> interface box that put the audio tones from the modem out on the

    air
    >> via AMPS to whatever BBS you wanted to connect to, at some

    blistering
    >> speed like 1200 baud or 2400 baud or 4800 baud. Rich people with
    >> fancy modems could get all the way up to 14.4Kbaud, but our BBS

    club
    >> couldn't afford such luxuries. AMPS wouldn't do well over about

    28.8
    >> but the 56K modems knew enough to backpedal because the phone

    lines
    >> wouldn't, either...(c;

    >
    >
    > I'm not sure AMPS could handle anything near 28.8. Best I ever hit
    > was 7200, and that was with a full signal and a stiff tailwind!

    ;-)
    >
    >
    >


    Spinnaker or wing 'n wing?




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