Re: iPhone Killer for the CDMA crowd - well at least Sprint

David Friedman <ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote in news:ddfr-
8D2B0C.06104506072008@CA.NEWS.VERIO.NET:

> Which isn't a cell phone and doesn't connect to the web unless you
> happen to have WiFi access. It's also a little big for the pocket,
> although not unusably so. What I want is a pocket sized device that
> combines phone, web appliance, and pda, with the pda used in part for
> reading and light editing of books--marking things I want to change in
> my own manuscripts. The iPhone seems pretty good for the first two
> purposes, although a higher resolution screen and a physical keyboard
> would be nice, and I was wondering how much of the third could be
> squeezed into it.
>

Sentence one simply isn't true. The N800 connects via BT DUN to my ROKR
Z6m sellphone modem, about the only thing the ROKR is good for except as
a mediocre MP3 player. The Z6m has EVDO "broadband", a nebulous term
that means it goes faster than 1X did, but way slower than your cable
modem. The N800 autoconnects to my cell's data link at bootup and every
5 minutes at idle because EVDO is a ppp over BT that dumps and
disconnects you when dormant. So far, until the bastards at Verizon
kill it, Alltel provides unlimited service, the only one left here, so
staying connected just speeds up everything, not waiting for the
connect-on-demand.

Sentence 2 - so is the FruitFone, Blackberry and PDAs. I can't imagine
having to carry anything bigger than the Z6m, any more, into a store or
the mall just to have a phone. I'm not forced to carry my "computer"
just to have sellphone service, another way of pitching the one unit vs
2 unit argument. My only gripe with the Z6m is I'm old and I lose it
every once in a while because its so tiny. Any device that's a PDA and
so tiny is worthless unless you have supervision because even the 800
pixel N800 is way too small many times as a web browser. This zooming
in and out crap on a smaller screen is stupid. I wear 4.50X reading
glasses and that makes the screen "bigger" so I can read it without all
the zooming and scraping around on a page.

Sellphones should fit in a big watchpocket or with your glasses in a
pocket T shirt, my "working uniform" since retiring. In cold climates,
it matters lots less with all the jacket pockets. Here in the South
where we try to be as naked as the cops will allow in the heat, it's
much more of an issue. Nokia seems to be on the right track developing
a new phone that bends around your wrist. Dick Tracy would be very
proud of them. That phone, if it ever materializes, will blow away the
rest. Just fold it up and put it in your pocket or wrap it around your
wrist (or neck?) and be on your way. I'll be dead before it comes out,
but find it very interesting.

Your last sentence left out the need for a better resolution real
touchscreen with the choice of a much more accurate stylus, again having
to screw around with the zooming in and out nonsense. If they're going
to go to a higher resolution display you want, they must dump the cheap
capacitive, low res touchscreen for a higher res stylus screen so you
can precisely point and draw. Lack of a stylus eliminates the FruitFone
from any useful drawing or graphic tablet devices, such as Xournal.
It's very hard to pick the link you want on normal webpages because your
fingertip is just too big for the tiny points and a higher res screen
will just make it much worse.

The lack of a good keyboard is easy to fix. Open the damned bluetooth
protocols on the FruitFone to include HID and there's already 20
keyboards to choose from. I'm not interested in the N810 because it has
a useless thumb keyboard I cannot type on. The N800 BTed to the Nokia
folding keyboard is a FAR better arrangement for typing. I'm typing on
it on this message using Linux rdesktop over free wifi from Linda's
Diner having lunch to my WinXP box's Remote Desktop running Xnews on
Knology Cable broadband. All FruitFone needs is a little Bluetooth work
and you can drop a keyboard in your bag for when you really need a
typing keyboard. Maybe FruitFone v15 will have a foldout foot so it
will stand up on a table, then have a laser virtual keyboard projected
on the tabletop so you can just type on the table, itself, when you
want. I think the virtual keyboards out there are really cool, but I
don't think they'd work well in a brightly lit restaurant. Texting in a
technobar on a virtual keyboard from FruitFone v15 standing on its
end....talk about a chick magnet!...(c;

Retype my reply on a FruitFone or PDA and let me know how long it took
and how many errors you made...(c;

Charles <fort514@mac.com> wrote in news:060720081002547355%fort514
@mac.com:

> Exactly the Nokia tablet is not a phone. It would not suit my
purposes.
> I also want to be able to get e-mail where Wi-Fi is not available.
> Which means cell data. I want a pocket sized device like you describe
> plus one that is an iPod too, so I can dispense carrying that device
> around too. I checked out the Sprint device yesterday and it won't
meet
> my needs. I am sure it will meet the needs of others. It is great
there
> are choices. The iPhone seems to come the closest for me. But I am
> can't say for sure without owning one.
>

His statement about not being able to connect without wifi is not true.
The N8xx tablets all have Bluetooth DUN to connect to your sellphone
data through a capable sellphone. My N800 tethers to a ROKR Z6m on
Alltel EVDO at about 1Mbps for internet on the road. Mounted in its
suction cup windscreen mounting bracket so I can see the various mapping
softwares' picture, it downloads on-the-fly the map tiles for Maemo
Mapper, for instance, over the link. I also listen to one of my fav
internet radio stations on the road using Streamtuner, which feeds the
links for Shoutcast or Xiph to mplayer for radio and TV stations. To
listen to Cowboy music, you must listen to a proper radio station in
Cowboy Country. That'd be KSEY in Seymour, TX, one of the few real
radio station left run by humans, not corporations. www.radioksey.com
give a listen..(c;

Steal your kids portable game player and carry it around all next week.
Every time you want to use a phone, hold it up to your ear opened up as
it's about the size of an iPhone. Now, make the actual call with your
tiny sellphone you're using now. Doesn't that feel better and less
conspicuous than the Gameboy? With a dual-unit setup you have a CHOICE
whether to carry along the computer part....or NOT. If you're going
shopping, for other than FruitFone accessories, you wouldn't, given a
choice, carry the FruitFone. If you're going for groceries, you
wouldn't, given a choice, carry the FruitFone, either. If you're going
anywhere that might endanger the expensive FruitFone with water,
overheating, physical abuse...given the choice....you'd have left it in
the car or at home, such as cleaning out the gutters on that rickety
ladder and getting all dirty. With a normal sellphone, you drop it in
your pocket and don't give it a second thought. It's only $50, after
all. With the FruitFone, N800, expensive Blackberry, WinMo
PDA....you're endangering a MUCH MORE FRAGILE device with water and dirt
and SCRATCHES TO THE SCREEN....and thinking twice about that $600
replacement cost if you bust it. Replacements are NOT going to be $199
when it falls off the ladder onto the driveway being big and kicked out
of your pocket by bumping it against the ladder step. THIS is why I
think the much more intelligent choice is a SEPARATE fragile computer
device and a cheaper sellphone you can replace with a refurb that's not
so fragile tucked away in your back pocket. The two device scenario
just makes more sense. It's not always appropriate to be carrying
around a miniature laptop, no matter how cutesy it is.....because you
MUST have that sellphone for comms....With two devices, you're never
forced to.

You can get email on your sellphone, if it's that important. Read it on
the sellphone and leave it on the server so that it will automatically
download to the tablet when it's more appropriate to use that, after you
come down off the ladder. Y/N messages are still easy from the
sellphone's crappy email client...same as now.

Cut out an exact cardboard replica of the FruitFone and test it for
appropriateness for a week or two and see how sick of being forced to
carry it around in places you wouldn't you get. If you can tolerate it,
great! Buy it. But carrying it around for 10 minutes at ATT is no test
of your meddle to tolerate carrying around a big fragile tablet all the
time just so you can answer the phone. Think, man, THINK!!

In article <Xns9AD3899C01C66noonehomecom@208.49.80.253>, Larry
<noone@home.com> wrote:

> His statement about not being able to connect without wifi is not true.
> The N8xx tablets all have Bluetooth DUN to connect to your sellphone
> data through a capable sellphone. My N800 tethers to a ROKR Z6m on

That is nice but some only want one device. Not two or three. Not a
separate phone, tablet and iPod.

> so fragile tucked away in your back pocket. The two device scenario
> just makes more sense. It's not always appropriate to be carrying
> around a miniature laptop, no matter how cutesy it is.....because you
> MUST have that sellphone for comms....With two devices, you're never
> forced to.

It makes sense to you. I say everyone should choose the scenario which
makes sense to them.

> Cut out an exact cardboard replica of the FruitFone and test it for
> appropriateness for a week or two and see how sick of being forced to
> carry it around in places you wouldn't you get. If you can tolerate it,
> great! Buy it. But carrying it around for 10 minutes at ATT is no test
> of your meddle to tolerate carrying around a big fragile tablet all the
> time just so you can answer the phone. Think, man, THINK!!

If I get an 3G iPhone I will have an actual device to test for 30 days.
I don't need a cardboard replica. As I said I would have no hesitation
returning it if I could not tolerate it. If I get one I will post
about it including if I return it.

--
Charles

In article <060720081002547355%fort514@mac.com>,
Charles <fort514@mac.com> wrote:

> In article <ddfr-8D2B0C.06104506072008@CA.NEWS.VERIO.NET>, David
> Friedman <ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote:
>
> > Which isn't a cell phone and doesn't connect to the web unless you
> > happen to have WiFi access. It's also a little big for the pocket,
> > although not unusably so. What I want is a pocket sized device that
> > combines phone, web appliance, and pda, with the pda used in part for
> > reading and light editing of books--marking things I want to change in
> > my own manuscripts. The iPhone seems pretty good for the first two
> > purposes, although a higher resolution screen and a physical keyboard
> > would be nice, and I was wondering how much of the third could be
> > squeezed into it.
>
> Exactly the Nokia tablet is not a phone. It would not suit my purposes.
> I also want to be able to get e-mail where Wi-Fi is not available.
> Which means cell data. I want a pocket sized device like you describe
> plus one that is an iPod too, so I can dispense carrying that device
> around too. I checked out the Sprint device yesterday and it won't meet
> my needs. I am sure it will meet the needs of others. It is great there
> are choices. The iPhone seems to come the closest for me. But I am
> can't say for sure without owning one.

I have no use for an iPod, which is part of the problem. The iPhone
seems designed as phone, web device, and iPod (now also gps). What I
want is phone, web device, and pda (and gps would be nice as well). So
the iPhone probably fits your requirements better than mine.

A number of phones have been announced, and a couple are even out, that
seem to fit my requirements, but the ones that are out so far have
problems. The Nokia E90 I actually bought, tried, and returned. Its 3G
(as of the time I got it, at least) is on a frequency that no US carrier
supports, and its word processor can only hold one book at a time and
takes ten minutes or so to load a book, making it much inferior to my
9300 from that standpoint. All of them are a bit small in the keyboard
and screen dimensions, save for the HTC Advantage which is probably too
big (but I haven't actually seen one) and uses an odd two piece design
that looks less convenient than a mini-notebook form factor. The iMate
ultimate is one possibility, but the screen is only 2.8." I'm hoping
that when the Android phone eventually appears, one of the versions will
fit my requirements.

Ideally I want something which can fit in my pocket with at least a
640x480 screen, preferably four inches or so diagonally, 3G connection,
decent word processing software and a usable physical keyboard. My old
Psion Revo fits in a pocket and has a surprisingly usable keyboard, but
of course it isn't a cell phone, is obsolete in several ways, and is no
longer on the market or supported.

....

> These groups seem to be full of kooks who hate the iPhone for no
> rational reason, and full of kooks who love it for no rational reason.
> I will ignore them and rely on my own judgement.

Yes.

--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.
Published by Baen, paperback in bookstores now

In article <Xns9AD385F9E836Fnoonehomecom@208.49.80.253>,
Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> David Friedman <ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote in news:ddfr-
> 8D2B0C.06104506072008@CA.NEWS.VERIO.NET:
>
> > I currently run Open Office on my eee PC, under Linux. It's a nice
> > machine, but it doesn't either fit in my pocket or connect to cellular
> > networks.
> >
> >
>
> The eee is a nice machine, but seems to lack the company-encouraged
> community of Linux hackers that Maemo created to support it with eee-
> enhanced freeware. I played with a couple, one at CompuZone that one of
> the techies had with him. He's trying to sell it, now, so he can buy an
> N800.
>
> The killer was the 4GB or 8GB "solid state disk" drive.

The Linux version comes with 20 Gig internal.

> I suppose you can
> plug in an SDHC card, but I seem to remember something about it didn't
> support a very big card

It takes at least an 8 gig, which is what I have, and I know of no limit
other than what cards are available.

> so I suppose you'll need a USB adapter for the big
> cards for storage sticking out the side. In a technology time where memory
> is just dirt cheap, that should have been 40GB and 80GB, not 4G and 8G.
> The OS and programs are tiny on Linux and that's not the problem....it's
> the storage for MEDIA that takes up so much space.

I have a 120 gig Passport USB hard drive--weighs a few ounces, holds all
the stuff that I don't absolutely have to have on the eee itself.

--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.
Published by Baen, paperback in bookstores now

In article <Xns9AD37EFBE57CFnoonehomecom@208.49.80.253>,
Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> David Friedman <ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote in news:ddfr-
> 8D2B0C.06104506072008@CA.NEWS.VERIO.NET:
>
> > The text of a book isn't a huge file. A short novel, even in Word, is
> > less than a meg.
> >
> >
>
> I suppose just text will fit. My ebooks are usually technical manuals,
> journals, technical books full of drawings and magazines. Magazines are
> the worst. A pdf of a magazine is from 15-50MB, easy! National Geographic
> is usually around 38MB every month. Email would croak...(c; Some mags like
> Scientific American at 5-7MB is doable in email.

I don't have any need for graphics in the books I read on my cell phone.

--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.
Published by Baen, paperback in bookstores now

David Friedman <ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote in news:ddfr-
4C7968.16204906072008@CA.NEWS.VERIO.NET:

> I have a 120 gig Passport USB hard drive--weighs a few ounces, holds all
> the stuff that I don't absolutely have to have on the eee itself.
>
>

I ordered a new Maxtor 250GB USB laptop (self-powered from USB) drive
yesterday. They were $99 at Best Buy, but I never buy anything from BB
before smartly pulling out the N800 on Sellular internet to "check prices"
with the real world. Some little computer company had the drive for $66
with free shipping, so I ordered it....from right inside Best Buy's
computer department in the hard drives section.

One of the blue shirts asked me what I was doing because I had my credit
card in my hand. "I'm buying this drive for $66 with free 3-day shipping
and no sales tax.", I told him as I completed the shipping forms on the
tablet and pointed out the drive I wanted.

33% off is 42% off with taxes!....

Best Buy can do better....

At 06 Jul 2008 16:46:59 +0000 Larry wrote:

> > I currently run Open Office on my eee PC, under Linux. It's a nice
> > machine, but it doesn't either fit in my pocket or connect to cellular
> > networks.
>
>
> The eee is a nice machine, but seems to lack the company-encouraged
> community of Linux hackers that Maemo created to support it with eee-
> enhanced freeware.

It doesn't really need that- it's a "real" Linux PC with a standard PC
architecture. Any Linux software for PCs will run on it. Your tablet
needs a "Community" because it's NOT a PC, and needs software customized
for it's non-x86 processor and unique hardware configuration. "Off the
shelf" Linux software can be loaded on the EEE- no "hacking" or "porting"
necessary.

Where a hacker community has sprung up for the EEE is in the hardware- the
hackers have added touchscreens, internal USB ports to hide GPS, cell data
cards, more storage, etc.


> I played with a couple, one at CompuZone that one of
> the techies had with him. He's trying to sell it, now, so he can buy an
> N800.
>
> The killer was the 4GB or 8GB "solid state disk" drive. I suppose you
> can plug in an SDHC card, but I seem to remember something about it
didn't
> support a very big card, so I suppose you'll need a USB adapter for the
> big cards for storage sticking out the side.

It supports up to the current maximum- 32GB, AFAIK, but I use an 8GB as a
fixed "D" drive. (The 8GB was cheap and large enough for my purposes.)

> In a technology time where memory
> is just dirt cheap, that should have been 40GB and 80GB, not 4G and 8G.

It's a $300 PC- 32GB SDHC cards cost over half of that! Look a why thos
Macbook Airs are too expensive- SSHDs are (relatively) expensive.

> The OS and programs are tiny on Linux and that's not the problem....it's
> the storage for MEDIA that takes up so much space.

It's a real PC- standard cards, USB drives, etc. will work, no hacking
necessary.

I played with the included Linux OS for two days and slapped XP on mine
instead. XP used 2.5 GB of the included 4GB "hard drive" but there's
plenty of space on my 8GB SDHC card.

It's a nice web-connected device- I'm not using it as a media PC- just an e-
mail/web/remote terminal for the family when traveling. I typically use my
WinMo phone for all that.

In article <g4tf1s$2a2$5@aioe.org>,
Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:

(about the eeePC)

> It's a $300 PC- 32GB SDHC cards cost over half of that! Look a why thos
> Macbook Airs are too expensive- SSHDs are (relatively) expensive.
>

....

> I played with the included Linux OS for two days and slapped XP on mine
> instead. XP used 2.5 GB of the included 4GB "hard drive" but there's
> plenty of space on my 8GB SDHC card.

It's worth noting that Todd and I are talking about different models.
Mine is the newer 900, which costs about $550, has a 9" screen and, in
the Linux version, a 20 gig flash "hard drive."

--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.
Published by Baen, paperback in bookstores now

"David Friedman" <ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote in message
news:ddfr-31AD19.09194207072008@CA.NEWS.VERIO.NET...
> It's worth noting that Todd and I are talking about different models.
> Mine is the newer 900, which costs about $550, has a 9" screen and, in
> the Linux version, a 20 gig flash "hard drive."

Yes- I should have made that clear- sorry. I bought mine shortly before the
new model (900 series?) was released. I have the lower end 4G Linux unit
with 7" screen and webcam which listed at the time for $399, but was offered
at Buy.com on a special $300 deal. For $300 lousy bucks I couldn't resist,
and frankly didn't expect much. I was very impressed however, by the
performance if the device particularly considering it's low-end specs. It
even handles media playback and VoIP well.

IIRC, the 9" has a faster processor and more memory in addition to the
larger SSHD drive in the original device's form-factor. I'll wager it's
even more impressive!