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  1. #31
    nospam
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    In article <[email protected]>, Oxford
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > if you buy a "computer" you don't need to PAY for a contract to connect
    > to the internet... so the IDEA of paying for a 2 year contract is
    > COMPLETELY out of line, unethical and simply won't stand...


    actually that business model has been tried. buy a cheap pc (like $100
    or something) as long as you sign up for 2 years of internet service.



    See More: I Phone?




  2. #32
    Charles
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    In article <080720081110390306%[email protected]>, nospam
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > the iphone 3g will not be sold without activation, at least in the
    > short term. when they do start selling non-contract phones, it will be
    > $400 more.


    I read that they will also require ID like a drivers license.

    --
    Charles



  3. #33
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    At 08 Jul 2008 17:20:45 -0600 Oxford wrote:


    > yes, that's a plausible plan... but not many will want to go through a
    > credit check, pay $175, then cancel a few days later just to make a few
    > $100... a lot of work for not much money.



    Not everyone will do it for profit- assumig the 2.0 is able to be unlocked,
    some will buy to use it on T-Mo, or perhaps prepaid.

    > come friday, 1.0 iphones will be exactly the same as the new ones, other
    > than 3G and a few other tweaks...


    "Tweaks" like GPS?





  4. #34
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    nospam <[email protected]> wrote in news:080720081537052603%
    [email protected]lid:

    > http://gizmodo.com/5014909/att-memo-...ows-iphone-3g-


    I've never been inside ATT or Apple, but you boys are smarter than the
    average joe, even OX.

    Have you EVER gotten a secret, internal, eyes only memo that started with
    an ADVERTISEMENT for the product?

    Come on....OPEN YOUR EYES! This "secret memo" is a SPAM! They don't send
    spams to themselves!

    "***Confidential AT&T Information. For Internal Distribution Only.***
    AT&T and Apple today announced that the iPhone 3G will be available in the
    U.S on July 11. iPhone 3G combines three products into one small,
    lightweight device: a revolutionary mobile phone, a widescreen iPod, and it
    puts the Internet in your pocket with the best e-mail, web browsing, search
    and maps applications ever on a mobile phone."

    They don't sell products to the store managers....




  5. #35
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    nospam <[email protected]> wrote in news:080720081537052603%
    [email protected]lid:

    > http://gizmodo.com/5014909/att-memo-...ows-iphone-3g-


    "$30 - Unlimited Data (E-mail/Web), includes Visual Voicemail"

    God I hope Attorney General Cuomo in NY State reads this. It cost Verizon
    through the ass to sell "unlimited" data that WASN'T unlimited and never
    has been. ATT needs a taste of some of that venom to stop this ****.

    Email and web browsing are NOT "unlimited data"....




  6. #36
    nospam
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    In article <[email protected]>, Larry
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > nospam <[email protected]> wrote in news:080720081537052603%
    > [email protected]lid:
    >
    > > http://gizmodo.com/5014909/att-memo-...ows-iphone-3g-

    >
    > I've never been inside ATT or Apple,


    no surprise there.

    > but you boys are smarter than the
    > average joe, even OX.
    >
    > Have you EVER gotten a secret, internal, eyes only memo that started with
    > an ADVERTISEMENT for the product?


    that's not an ad, that's just a brief summary of the device, along with
    the procedures to sell and activate it. nothing unusual about that.

    > Come on....OPEN YOUR EYES! This "secret memo" is a SPAM! They don't send
    > spams to themselves!


    if you think it's bogus, then why not call or visit an apple or at&t
    store and find out what the policy is for purchasing, cancelling and
    returning an iphone. report back with what you find.



  7. #37
    Oxford
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > yes, that's a plausible plan... but not many will want to go through a
    > > credit check, pay $175, then cancel a few days later just to make a few
    > > $100... a lot of work for not much money.

    >
    > Not everyone will do it for profit- assumig the 2.0 is able to be unlocked,
    > some will buy to use it on T-Mo, or perhaps prepaid.


    we'll see... but att will supposedly offer unsubsidized 2.0 versions
    priced at $599 and $699 once initial demand has eased.

    > > come friday, 1.0 iphones will be exactly the same as the new ones, other
    > > than 3G and a few other tweaks...

    >
    > "Tweaks" like GPS?


    iphone 1.0 already has quite decent GPS through skyhook, so i doubt
    anyone will see the difference of having that additional "checkoff" item.



  8. #38
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    At 09 Jul 2008 01:40:41 +0000 Larry wrote:

    > "$30 - Unlimited Data (E-mail/Web), includes Visual Voicemail"
    >
    > God I hope Attorney General Cuomo in NY State reads this. It cost
    > Verizon
    > through the ass to sell "unlimited" data that WASN'T unlimited and never
    > has been. ATT needs a taste of some of that venom to stop this ****.



    AT&T does allow "unlimited" web access on PHONES. They have a 5GB limit on
    aircards and any data plan that allows/includes tethering a PC or external
    device. Since the iPhone doesn't allow tethering, users can slurp as much
    data s they are willing to.


    > Email and web browsing are NOT "unlimited data"....



    That's up to AT&T to define- not you, I or even the NY AG, as long as the
    terms and restrictions are clearly *****ed out to users.
    Verizon was slapped by the AG for calling 5GB "unlimited"- not for
    restricting the definition of "data" to web and e-mail.






  9. #39
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    At 09 Jul 2008 01:37:53 +0000 Larry wrote:

    > I've never been inside ATT or Apple, but you boys are smarter than the
    > average joe, even OX.
    >
    > Have you EVER gotten a secret, internal, eyes only memo that started with
    > an ADVERTISEMENT for the product?
    >
    > Come on....OPEN YOUR EYES! This "secret memo" is a SPAM! They don't

    send
    > spams to themselves!



    As a former SBMS/Cingular dealer, I Can say with absolute certainty that
    "secret internal memos" often DO sound like advertising.


    > "***Confidential AT&T Information. For Internal Distribution Only.***
    > AT&T and Apple today announced that the iPhone 3G will be available in

    the
    > U.S on July 11. iPhone 3G combines three products into one small,
    > lightweight device: a revolutionary mobile phone, a widescreen iPod, and

    it
    > puts the Internet in your pocket with the best e-mail, web browsing,

    search
    > and maps applications ever on a mobile phone."
    >
    > They don't sell products to the store managers....


    Sure they do. They don't call it a "Compane Line" for nothing! ;-)

    The memo looked and sounded perfectly legit to me...







  10. #40
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?


    "Oxford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    >> That's the way it used to work with the old iPhone with its unsubsidized
    >> price. Since the price of the new iPhone is now subsidized by the
    >> contract
    >> it seems likely that Apple won't be letting you out of their store with
    >> a new $200 phone without having done the paper work and credit check
    >> required to sign you up for a contract.
    >>
    >> It will be interesting to see how that works out. The idea of giving
    >> someone in an Apple store my SSN is unappealing to me for reasons that
    >> probably aren't rational.

    >
    > i fully agree... it's the neanderthal, "price fixing" cell industry that
    > is in error... not apple, not the iphone, nor or any rational person.


    Since the iPhone is the ONLY device in AT&T's arsenal that requires a
    two-year contract to purchase it, I'd say Apple is as guilty as anyone here.
    Any other AT&T-sold device can be bought cash-n-carry (at unsubsidized
    price), put on a one-year contract (in return for a smaller subsidy),
    activated month-to-month, or put on prepaid service. Only the iPhone
    REQUIRES a two-year deal, apparently.


    > if you buy a "computer" you don't need to PAY for a contract to connect
    > to the internet... so the IDEA of paying for a 2 year contract is
    > COMPLETELY out of line, unethical and simply won't stand...


    But you COULD- People PC and AOL both offered PC price subsidies back in
    their day. Like with most cellphones, it was OPTIONAL- the customer could
    take advantage of the subsidy if they chose.

    > it's criminal... since prices aren't dropping year to year in line with
    > normal technology trends.


    Sure they are; normal technology trends are that new technology items are
    high priced, then drop until a natural "bottom" is found, then that low-end
    becomes more featured rather than continuing to drop in price. Cellular has
    been around nearly THREE DECADES. Wholesale cost has bottomed out at about
    $30-40, and those low-end handsets get better and more featured every year-
    those $30 handsets are a tenth of the size and weight, and have far more
    features, than my circa-1987 Tandy CT-350, which wholesaled for $800.
    That's right in line, trend-wise, with "mature" technology products like TVs
    and VCRs. VCRs are four decades old, yet they still cost $30-40- they hit
    "bottom" years ago.

    > the entire cell industry is "corrupt" but I sure you know that...


    Oh, please. It's a business like any other. You could argue that fast food
    is also "corrupt" and "price fixed." Everyone's value menu seems
    coincidentally "fixed" a $1 per item, and a chain's "signature" sandwich
    runs about $3 from any of them, regardless of who sells it or what's in it.
    A competitive marketplace tends to resemble "price fixing" since the
    low-cost leader sets the bar, and everyone else decides how close to that
    bar they are willing or able to go. If one grocery store sells a loaf of
    Wonderbread for $1.99, the others can't get $5 for it. When they all end up
    at or near $2, it's not price-fixing, it's competition!






  11. #41
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    nospam <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:080720081913110593%[email protected]:

    >> Come on....OPEN YOUR EYES! This "secret memo" is a SPAM! They don't
    >> send spams to themselves!

    >
    > if you think it's bogus, then why not call or visit an apple or at&t
    > store and find out what the policy is for purchasing, cancelling and
    > returning an iphone. report back with what you find.
    >
    >


    Has Apple filed suit against Gizmodo for posting this secret document,
    company proprietary stuff they always sue over?

    NO, they have not.

    Has Apple threatened them with a lawsuit if they don't remove it from the
    website, as they have others?

    NO, they have not.

    Ask yourself why.....




  12. #42
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in news:g519d2$mi1$1
    @aioe.org:

    > That's up to AT&T to define- not you, I or even the NY AG, as long as the
    > terms and restrictions are clearly *****ed out to users.
    > Verizon was slapped by the AG for calling 5GB "unlimited"- not for
    > restricting the definition of "data" to web and e-mail.
    >
    >
    >


    Nope, it is not. It is up to the Attorney General of the State of
    NY.....and the courts, if necessary, not me. This isn't about me....This
    is about ATT doing the same ****ty advertising as Verizon Wireless....

    Unlimited has been defined and THIS AIN'T IT!




  13. #43
    nospam
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    In article <[email protected]>, Larry
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > nospam <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:080720081913110593%[email protected]:
    >
    > >> Come on....OPEN YOUR EYES! This "secret memo" is a SPAM! They don't
    > >> send spams to themselves!

    > >
    > > if you think it's bogus, then why not call or visit an apple or at&t
    > > store and find out what the policy is for purchasing, cancelling and
    > > returning an iphone. report back with what you find.

    >
    > Has Apple filed suit against Gizmodo for posting this secret document,
    > company proprietary stuff they always sue over?
    >
    > NO, they have not.


    it's at&t confidential information, not apple confidential information,
    so it's not for apple to sue.

    > Has Apple threatened them with a lawsuit if they don't remove it from the
    > website, as they have others?
    >
    > NO, they have not.


    which other websites has apple sued to have the at&t memo removed?

    > Ask yourself why.....


    as i mentioned, it's an at&t memo to its stores so apple isn't
    involved. if anything, it's for at&t to find out who leaked it and
    take appropriate action, should they decide to do so. also,
    journalists are not liable for reporting news, even if someone *else*
    violated an agreement.

    it's also all over the net. who is to say that gizmodo isn't reporting
    it after having read it elsewhere? whom do they sue first?

    <http://www.iphoneactiveren.nl/index....t&view=article
    &id=60:moeilijk&catid=1:homepagenieuws>

    <http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/...etails-you-nev
    er-wanted-to-know/>

    <http://www.intoiphone.com/2008/06/10...g-upgrade-call
    ingdata-plan-policies-revealed-no-more-revenue-sharing.html>

    <http://iphone.click2creation.com/ind...ential-att-not
    e-some-2g-iphone-users-to-get-free-3g-iphone-upgrade-3-iphones-per-perso
    n-rule-remains-2g-iphones-still-activated-via-itunes/>

    <http://fatmatrix.com/att-memo-to-ret...one-3g-policy-
    iphone-3g.html>

    <http://phonereport.info/2008/06/10/att-with-apple-iphone-3g-details/>



  14. #44
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: I Phone?

    At 09 Jul 2008 03:47:40 +0000 Larry wrote:

    > > That's up to AT&T to define- not you, I or even the NY AG, as long as
    > > the terms and restrictions are clearly *****ed out to users.
    > > Verizon was slapped by the AG for calling 5GB "unlimited"- not for
    > > restricting the definition of "data" to web and e-mail.
    > >

    >
    > Nope, it is not. It is up to the Attorney General of the State of
    > NY.....and the courts, if necessary, not me. This isn't about me....This
    > is about ATT doing the same ****ty advertising as Verizon Wireless....
    >
    > Unlimited has been defined and THIS AIN'T IT!



    How has the NY AG defined "unlimited" differently than AT&T? Again, they
    went after Verizon for capping a plan advertised as "unlimited" at 5GB. As
    I said, there is no transfer limit on AT&T's on-phone data plans, only
    tethered plans, which AT&T does NOT describe as "unlimited."





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