Verizon takes a larger share of the wireless market

On 2008-07-23, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
> Agreed again. But realistically it's a non-issue- the landline companies
> have already diversified into internet, VoIP and cellular. Verizon isn't
> really going to cry a river when a $30 landline customer dumps it for a $50
> Verizon wireless cellular plan!

Verizon might not cry a river, but I'll bet they'd shed a few
tears. 100% of a $30 landline is better than 55% of a $50 cell
plan.

Dennis Ferguson

---

› See More: Verizon takes a larger share of the wireless market

At 24 Jul 2008 02:42:17 +0000 Dennis Ferguson wrote:
> > But realistically it's a non-issue- the landline companies
> > have already diversified into internet, VoIP and cellular. Verizon
> > isn't really going to cry a river when a $30 landline customer
> > dumps it for a $50 Verizon wireless cellular plan!
>
> Verizon might not cry a river, but I'll bet they'd shed a few
> tears. 100% of a $30 landline is better than 55% of a $50 cell
> plan.

Fair enough. OTOH, Verizon Wireless is a nationwide company, whereas
Verizon is regional- that 55% of $50 comes from 60+ million people, the
majority of whom are inaccessable to Mother Verizon's copper embrace.

Mark Crispin wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Todd Allcock posted:
>> Didn't Cingular's acquisition of AT&T Wireless put it ahead of Verizon a
>> few years ago? The Dobson acquisition was only a few million customers.
>
> Nope. The ATTWS acquisition put it close, but Dobson brought it over.
>
>> Although I really don't know why anyone cares about the "most
>> subscribers"
>> total anyway.
>
> I agree. That comment was just to tweak the noses of the fanboys who
> think that there is something significant about AT&T currently having
> the "most subscribers".

Actually they don't have the most subscribers, they have the most people
using their network, when you include MVNOs. Verizon's been ahead in
subscribers for a long time.

Where "the most" subscribers makes a difference is in being able to have
more mobile to mobile calls that don't use plan minutes.

At 24 Jul 2008 21:40:55 -0700 SMS wrote:


> Actually they don't have the most subscribers, they have the most
> people using their network, when you include MVNOs. Verizon's
> been ahead in subscribers for a long time.


Ok, they have the most "customers" or "users", since MVNOs are customers as
well.


> Where "the most" subscribers makes a difference is in being able
> to have more mobile to mobile calls that don't use plan minutes.


True. Assuming, of course, you often call complete strangers at random.
In reality, what matters to you most (for M2M) is what carrier most of YOUR
friends, associates, and family members you call most use. If you wax
poetic about the Splendor that is Verizon to those you call most even half
as much as you do to us here, I'll wager everyone you know has switched to
Verizon just to avoid your nagging! ;-)

Given the current subscriber numbers, however, the odds that a family
member or friend will have either AT&T or Verizon is just about even
(except in your sphere of influence, obviously.)


Of course, as a T-Mobile MyFaves customer, my phone bill isn't dependent on
conning my family or friends into using the carrier of MY choice... ;-)

Todd Allcock wrote:

> True. Assuming, of course, you often call complete strangers at random.

Not really. The more subscribers, the more likely the people that you
need to call will be on the same network. Just think, when the
acquisition of Alltel is complete we'll be able to call Larry for free
(at least until he goes somewhere else).

> In reality, what matters to you most (for M2M) is what carrier most of YOUR
> friends, associates, and family members you call most use.

Actually it's those people that I don't worry about anymore. Most are in
the SF Bay Area, where it's almost heresy for anyone to not be on Verizon.

It's people I call only occasionally that I'll sometimes ask what
carrier they're on if the call is turning into a long one. If the person
is in the Bay Area then more often than not they're on Verizon.

I remember some friends that moved to Lafayette, and they sent me their
new address and phone numbers (Cingular cell phones) via e-mail with
this gem (names and number's x'd out):

Steve,
here are our numbers:

925-945-xxxx (Home)
510 919-xxxx (xxxxx's cell) - no reception at home
408 568-xxxx (xxxxx's cell) - no reception at home.

By the time we visited them, they were both on Verizon, the only carrier
with coverage at their house. I had never discussed anything about the
relative coverage quality with them, they figured it out all on their
own! For some reason AT&T really has a big problem with East Bay
coverage out in the Moraga/Lafayette area, Navas's protestations to the
contrary notwithstanding.

I'm not sure the financials of VZ translate all that well to the financials
of VZ Wireless. VZ has been losing landline business for the past few years
and is not doing all that well (neither is ATT landline). VOIP and cell
service is taking business away from traditional phone companies. Comparing
the aging part of Verizon to Apple is not a fair comparison. Comparing
growth in VZ Wireless is more appropriate, which you have not done. BTW,
they are related but seperate companies (as is VZ Online).
I'm glad you like your iPhone. I've known others who do, too. Frankly, my
Verizon XV6800 can do more than your iPhone, and a lot faster. It lacks your
great browser and music player, but for business use my phone is much more
capable, has a MUCH faster and broader data network, has many more useful
applications and a much cheaper data plan. Also, it tends to be able to make
and recieve calls in a much broader geographic area and the calling parties
can actually hear each other. Not that this is as important as an Apple logo
on the back, though.
"Oxford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Ness-Net" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Oxford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > so Verizon has flat lined... thanks for pointing out how much of a
>> > serious affect the iPhone is having to the poorly managed Verizon
>> > business.
>> >
>> > as they say, Verizon is doomed without access to the iPhone... this is
>> > further proof.
>>
>> Are you actually SERIOUS??
>>
>> And delusional - as always. Making something out of absolutely NOTHING!!
>>
>> The only thing the above proves is that you don't have a clue.
>
> no, you are forgetting i only use facts...
>
> Verizon has "flatlined" against Apple.
>
> Here is absolute proof:
>
> http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=VZ&t...z=m&q=l&c=aapl
>
> Please learn about the facts next time...

On 2008-09-02, Larry <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Prilosec" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
> Of course he hasn't done the comparison with VZW. As much as I just HATE
> VZW, the most dispicable sellphone company on the planet from personal
> experience, I have to admit they're the BIG GUN in the USA, about to
> swallow whole my beloved Alltel, which to me is akin to Russia swallowing
> Georgia.
>
> VZ isn't VZW at all.....but, of course, that truth wouldn't look so good in
> his troll....(c;

But VZ badly wants to be VZW, bad enough that you'll find speculation
concerning them swallowing much, much, much bigger fish than Alltel to
get it. See, for example

http://seekingalpha.com/article/9178...-over-vodafone

Dennis Ferguson

Dennis Ferguson wrote:

> But VZ badly wants to be VZW, bad enough that you'll find speculation
> concerning them swallowing much, much, much bigger fish than Alltel to
> get it. See, for example
>
> http://seekingalpha.com/article/9178...-over-vodafone

Interesting, but I question the supposition that Sprint will get its act
together in the U.S., and I question the idea that the integration of
Alltel will take 2-3 years. It's not like the absorption of AT&T
Wireless where Cingular was dealing with a technology change and a lot
of unhappy AT&T customers. Other than Larry, most Alltel customers will
be thrilled to be moved over to Verizon with their plans grandfathered
in--it's the best of both worlds for them.

At 03 Sep 2008 07:47:39 -0700 SMS wrote:

> Other than Larry, most Alltel customers will be thrilled to be moved
> over to Verizon with their plans grandfathered in--it's the best of
> both worlds for them.

Arguably, since Verizon and Alltel operate in many of the same markets,
many Alltel customers have already deliberately chosen NOT to be Verizon
customers.

The grandfathering will likely placate them for awhile, unless/until
Verizon pulls an "AT&T" and forces them out of those grandfathered plans
the next time they upgrade their handsets, like the "new AT&T" did to "old"
AT&T blue customers...

SMS <[email protected]> wrote in newssxvk.40204$ZE5.16866
@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com:

> Other than Larry, most Alltel customers will
> be thrilled to be moved over to Verizon with their plans grandfathered
> in--it's the best of both worlds for them.
>
>

Maybe where you live, but certainly not where I live.....

A large majority of Alltel customers in SC buy the REGIONAL plan Verizon
will delete at takeover. More minutes in less area is fine for most users
who rarely, especially now as gas skyrockets in price and buying an
airplane ticket is like buying a house, travel outside the state.

It's stupid to buy "Nationwide Service" when you rarely leave the county
you live in.

Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> The grandfathering will likely placate them for awhile, unless/until
> Verizon pulls an "AT&T" and forces them out of those grandfathered
> plans the next time they upgrade their handsets, like the "new AT&T"
> did to "old" AT&T blue customers...
>
>
>

Most Alltel customers I know fled Cellular One, here, when GTE bought up
Cellular One. More customers fled GTE Wireless when Verizon sucked them up
and jacked up prices while reducing actual service and features like
regional plans.

Most of us on Alltel are Verizon Refugees, fed up with being lied to and
screwed. And, once again, most are planning to churn, once again, as soon
as Verizon tries to screw us, yet again, with forced nationwide service we
don't want and don't need, turning our truly unlimited tethered internet
plans into mush by tripling rates while telling us we can only have 5GB per
month for three to four times as much money.

Notice I said WHEN, not IF. I'm hoping some kind of WiMax becomes
available before it happens. With Skype and Wimax, I wouldn't need
Sellphones.

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 03 Sep 2008 07:47:39 -0700 SMS wrote:
>
>> Other than Larry, most Alltel customers will be thrilled to be moved
>> over to Verizon with their plans grandfathered in--it's the best of
>> both worlds for them.
>
> Arguably, since Verizon and Alltel operate in many of the same markets,
> many Alltel customers have already deliberately chosen NOT to be Verizon
> customers.
>
> The grandfathering will likely placate them for awhile, unless/until
> Verizon pulls an "AT&T" and forces them out of those grandfathered plans
> the next time they upgrade their handsets, like the "new AT&T" did to "old"
> AT&T blue customers...

Historically Verizon has not forced existing customers to adopt current
calling plans when upgrading handsets and going back under contract. I
keep worrying that they will do this, but so far they haven't. They've
gone to great trouble to even keep the greater coverage of the older
Americas Choice Plan available (plus they don't ever seem to charge for
the off-network AMPS roaming that shows on the handset as roaming that I
should be charged for). They're under no obligation to keep offering
service at prices from the older plans, but they do so anyway.

Part of the way Cingular forced AT&T Wireless customers to switch to
higher cost plans was due to the change from TDMA to GSM. All those
super-cheap TDMA plans went away with the technology change.

Verizon saw the horrible churn numbers of Cingular/AT&T that resulted
from the acquisition, as well as the class action lawsuits. It would be
unwise for them to alienate the Alltel customers and increase churn.

I think Verizon will likely stop offering new plans that only cover the
Alltel native service area, but very few customers sign up for the
Alltel local plan anyway because the service area is extremely limited,
and it costs so much to roam. Of Alltel's approximately 13 millions
subscribers, less than 2 million use the regional plans. Also, Alltel
charges a lot more for additional lines on their plans than Verizon, so
family plan users will see a decrease in monthly costs if they move to
Verizon's plans.

SMS <[email protected]> wrote in news:4QAvk.36476$co7.33169
@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com:

> and it costs so much to roam.

Actually that's not true. 10c/min.

What you do is when you want to travel outside the regional plan, you call
611 and tell them you want to buy 100 minutes of nationwide service. They
charge $10 to your bill and these minutes only countdown as your roaming
outside your coverage area, making occasional roaming at 10c/min quite
cheap, compared to other options from other carriers.

I use this service on my NC/SC $39 regional plan when I go to Florida
sailing. When I get in range coming in from sea I simply dial 611 and add
the minutes for $10. The system warns me when I'm down to 5 or 10 minutes
that I may need a recharge and will autosell me another 100 minutes by
pressing one of the keys. Works great....until Verizon takes over, I'm
assuming.

I roamed on Verizon in FL one time and it was like 89c/min....like roaming
in some 3rd World Country run by a Despot....a complete ripoff.

SMS <[email protected]> wrote in news:4QAvk.36476$co7.33169
@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com:

> Of Alltel's approximately 13 millions
> subscribers, less than 2 million use the regional plans.

Where's the reference for this statistic? I've never seen it anywhere.

Larry wrote:
> SMS <[email protected]> wrote in news:4QAvk.36476$co7.33169
> @nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com:
>
>> and it costs so much to roam.
>
> Actually that's not true. 10c/min.
>
> What you do is when you want to travel outside the regional plan, you call
> 611 and tell them you want to buy 100 minutes of nationwide service. They
> charge $10 to your bill and these minutes only countdown as your roaming
> outside your coverage area, making occasional roaming at 10c/min quite
> cheap, compared to other options from other carriers.
>
> I use this service on my NC/SC $39 regional plan when I go to Florida
> sailing. When I get in range coming in from sea I simply dial 611 and add
> the minutes for $10. The system warns me when I'm down to 5 or 10 minutes
> that I may need a recharge and will autosell me another 100 minutes by
> pressing one of the keys. Works great....until Verizon takes over, I'm
> assuming.

That's such a hassle. No wonder so few Alltel subscribers sign up for
ther regional plans.

> I roamed on Verizon in FL one time and it was like 89c/min....like roaming
> in some 3rd World Country run by a Despot....a complete ripoff.

It was Alltel charging you the 89¢ per minute, not Verizon. Alltel paid
Verizon very little for the roaming, and it could have been nothing at
all depending on what reciprocal agreements were in place.