Good Bye BlackBerrry: HSBC is considering ditching the BlackBerry

4phun wrote:
> HSBC could order 200,000 iPhones | Tech News on ZDNet
> Aug 13, 2008 ... Global banking giant HSBC is considering ditching the
> BlackBerry and adopting Apple's iPhone as its standard staff mobile
> device.
>
> Aug 13, 2008 ... "We are actually reviewing iPhones from a HSBC Group
> perspective ... and when I say that, I mean globally," HSBC's
> Australia and New Zealand ...
>
> Aug 13, 2008 ... The fact that a company like HSBC is even considering
> the iPhone is testament to robust new Enterprise features in the new
> 2.0 firmware. ...
>
>
> Aug 13, 2008 ... Worldwide bank HSBC's employees have long used
> BlackBerries as the handset of choice, but rumor has it that they are
> considering replacing ...
>
> Analyst: iPhones flying off shelves at 95 per store per day
> Aug 13, 2008 ... An HSBC regional CIO says the company is evaluating
> the iPhone 3G for deployment to its global staff. This could
> potentially be the largest ...
>
> http://www.arstechnica.com/journals/...-store-per-day
>
>
>
> http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/13/...les-estimates/
>
> http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-216006.html
>
> http://news.google.com/news?num=100&...num=1&ct=title
>

Why are you telling us this? Who the hell CARES? A lot of us wouldn't
have an iPhone if you GAVE it to us!

---

› See More: Good Bye BlackBerrry: HSBC is considering ditching the BlackBerry

Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
> 4phun wrote:
>> HSBC could order 200,000 iPhones | Tech News on ZDNet
>> Aug 13, 2008 ... Global banking giant HSBC is considering ditching the
>> BlackBerry and adopting Apple's iPhone as its standard staff mobile
>> device.
>>
>> Aug 13, 2008 ... "We are actually reviewing iPhones from a HSBC Group
>> perspective ... and when I say that, I mean globally," HSBC's
>> Australia and New Zealand ...
>>
>> Aug 13, 2008 ... The fact that a company like HSBC is even considering
>> the iPhone is testament to robust new Enterprise features in the new
>> 2.0 firmware. ...
>>
>>
>> Aug 13, 2008 ... Worldwide bank HSBC's employees have long used
>> BlackBerries as the handset of choice, but rumor has it that they are
>> considering replacing ...
>>
>> Analyst: iPhones flying off shelves at 95 per store per day
>> Aug 13, 2008 ... An HSBC regional CIO says the company is evaluating
>> the iPhone 3G for deployment to its global staff. This could
>> potentially be the largest ...
>>
>> http://www.arstechnica.com/journals/...-store-per-day
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/13/...les-estimates/
>>
>>
>> http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-216006.html
>>
>> http://news.google.com/news?num=100&...num=1&ct=title
>>
>>
>
> Why are you telling us this? Who the hell CARES? A lot of us wouldn't
> have an iPhone if you GAVE it to us!
Paranoid?!!!

On Aug 13, 10:31*pm, 4phun <[email protected]> wrote:
> HSBC could order 200,000 iPhones | Tech News on ZDNet
> Aug 13, 2008 ... Global banking giant HSBC is considering ditching the
> BlackBerry and adopting Apple's iPhone as its standard staff mobile
> device.
>
> Aug 13, 2008 ... "We are actually reviewing iPhones from a HSBC Group
> perspective ... and when I say that, I mean globally," HSBC's
> Australia and New Zealand ...
>
> Aug 13, 2008 ... The fact that a company like HSBC is even considering
> the iPhone is testament to robust new Enterprise features in the new
> 2.0 firmware. ...
>
> Aug 13, 2008 ... Worldwide bank HSBC's employees have long used
> BlackBerries as the handset of choice, but rumor has it that they are
> considering replacing ...
>
> Analyst: iPhones flying off shelves at 95 per store per day
> Aug 13, 2008 ... An HSBC regional CIO says the company is evaluating
> the iPhone 3G for deployment to its global staff. This could
> potentially be the largest ...
>
> http://www.arstechnica.com/journals/...3/analyst-ipho...
>
> http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/13/...onsidering-iph...
>
> http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-216006.html
>
> http://news.google.com/news?num=100&...lient=firefox-...

Very interesting.

I suspected this may happen sooner or later, the iPhone is a very
powerful device when you add your own custom software.

"Richard B. Gilbert" <[email protected]> wrote in news:u-
[email protected]:

> Why are you telling us this? Who the hell CARES? A lot of us wouldn't
> have an iPhone if you GAVE it to us!
>
>

He simply WON'T stop trolling the Verizon newsgroup. I've asked him
nicely.

techwiz <[email protected]> wrote in news:f63e231f-53a4-
[email protected]:

> the iPhone is a very
> powerful device when you add your own custom software.
>
>

How so? It has a very low resolution touchscreen with no stylus for
accuracy and fine input. It has no character recognition that I know
of. It has a poor finger keyboard for text input. It has no Bluetooth
HID profile so one can add an external useful keyboard. It has no port
to plug devices into and its Bluetooth prevents any use except headsets.

It has no cut and paste, a basic feature on any computing device.
Hence, there is only one way to get:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?ovi=1&mqma
p.x=300&mqmap.y=75&mapdata=%252bKZmeiIh6N%252bI
gpXRP3bylMaN0O4z8OOUkZWYe7NRH6ldDN96YFTIUmSH3Q6
OzE5XVqcuc5zb%252fY5wy1MZwTnT2pu%252bNMjOjsHjvN
lygTRMzqazPStrN%252f1YzA0oWEWLwkHdhVHeG9sG6cMrf
XNJKHY6fML4o6Nb0SeQm75ET9jAjKelrmqBCNta%252bsKC
9n8jslz%252fo188N4g3BvAJYuzx8J8r%252f1fPFWkPYg%
252bT9Su5KoQ9YpNSj%252bmo0h0aEK%252bofj3f6vCP
from some app to Safari to bring up the map.
Because it only supports ONE app at a time, you cannot run the app this
URL came from and click and drag it into Safari to see the map, either.
One of the most important common computer features is simply omitted for
some stupid reason.

It has no word processing capability as it has no usable keyboard for
word processing.

It has no spreadsheet capability so cannot be used as a number cruncher
other than the simplest of basic hand calculator calculations any $3
calculator from Dollar General does better with its real keyboard.

It cannot do complex calculations as it has no scientific calculator,
with or without a programming function. It's not a science device with
no complex calculations.

It cannot display common video/audio formats used widely in business
such as Flash or most non-Apple video/audio formats. It can't play the
Realvideo board meeting on a train because it has no Realplayer, plugin
or stand alone player. It's media player is hobbled to sell iTunes
crap, hardly Business friendly.

It has no useful external memory, whatsoever. You cannot load your
office files onto a memory card, USB plug, portable media or portable
hard drive so you are forced to expose the company to internet access
many business users simply cannot permit. Webpage access to sensitive
company files, passwords and all, is just STUPID.

You cannot run specialized software written by your company IT
professionals on it because you are not allowed to install any useful
programs on it without exposing the company to some kind of security
breach at Apple Computers. Even if you could get "permission" to
install the software, the software would be exposed to hacking in iTunes
or some kind of hidden app store Apple would have to setup for your
corporation. Why take the risk? It's insane just to have a girl
magnet. Businessmen don't need a girl magnet. They have money!

The Cisco users do report the VPN support seems to work and is easy to
configure, but what will you do with that unsupported file format once
you download it to the iPhone? The document was created in Word,
contains 3 Excel spreadsheets full of numbers and the presentation that
goes with it is a Powerpoint presentation. So, once you get it to the
iPhone, what can you do with it? You can't review it, edit it, even
display it! Worthless?

Check off the file formats BUSINESS, not Electronic Arts, uses every day
that the iPhone supports:
http://www.ace.net.nz/tech/TechFileFormat.html
Which App Store apps will read/edit/store your changes so you can VPN
them back to the system?

The XYZ Corp uses a lot of video presentations to go with its
Powerpoints. I'd almost guarantee NONE of them are in H.264 or MP4
format, the only two formats iPhone plays. What do you expect XYZ to
do, convert the whole 96TB library of videos JUST so the grunts in the
field can show them on an iPhone? BUSINESS isn't going to BEND to the
iPhone. BUSINESS buys hardware and software that plays what that
business uses on all other formats. They have no time for "conversion".

Of course, with no removable media to store the video on in the first
place from the company PC on your desktop, all this is moot. Try
sending a 3GB video file over iTunes. What a joke! Business has no
time for this crap.

It has no capability for any kind of video output that can be connected
to a large TV or monitor display so we can't use it at the meeting with
the clients, anyways. If we're going to haul the big laptop, why do we
need an iPhone?

Iphones play:
The Apple iPhone supports the following audio formats:
AAC (16 to 320 Kbps)
AIFF
AAC Protected (MP4 from iTunes Store)
MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps)
MP3 VBR
Audible (formats 2-4)
Apple Lossless
WAV

Which format did the CEO's little sales booster meeting get sent to you
in? It will play basic MP3 files. That might work if the company
doesn't use Realvideo/audio, as many of them do. Noone gives a **** if
it plays WAV, Audible 2 or 4, AIFF or Apple Lossless.

Cut and paste this URL into your Safari:
http://www.google.com/products/catal...UTF-8&oe=utf-8
&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&cid=
862264849236915779&oi=product_catalog_result&resnum=1
&ct=result&scoring=p
Motorola S9 is the finest headset I ever owned. It's certainly the best
sellphone headset, too. Why can't this Superplayer play audio through
the standard A2DP Bluetooth Stereo headphones? Business will want
STEREO headphones so they can LISTEN to presentations DOWNLOADED from
parters as well as COMPETITORS. Iphone won't download them and does a
piss poor job of playing them without A2DP support. It IS fortunate you
don't need some proprietary Apple "adapter" so you can plug in a simple
stereo headphone.

These are valid points for business use. N800 isn't a business machine,
either, but is much closer with its many ported Linux apps like Abiword,
Open Office, Gnumeric Spreasheet, Xournal for annotating PDF files,
plays any format business uses, including Realvideo and Realaudio files
and streaming. N800 has no JAVA support....but the new Firefox 3 on it
will....(c;

Arrogance is fine with teenagers....but never with businessmen.

M-M wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Richard B. Gilbert" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Who the hell CARES? A lot of us wouldn't
>> have an iPhone if you GAVE it to us!
>
>
> Well, I was just given an iPod Touch (free with Mac computer purchase
> with educational discount) and I must say it is quite cool. Being a
> Verizon customer, I cannot use an iPhone but I wish I could.
>
I bought a touch for that very reason. Now that I've owned it for 3 weeks,
some of the glamour is beginning to wear off. My desire for an iPhone has
waned. It is a cool device though, but there are some things my BB does more
effectively and reliably. Be patient. Wait for the BB Thunder due in the
Fall. You might be pleasantly pleased that you waited. No personal offense
meant to iPhone people. It's a great and innovative device.

On Aug 14, 11:28*pm, nospam <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Larry

> > BUSINESS isn't going to BEND to the
> > iPhone. *BUSINESS buys hardware and software that plays what that
> > business uses on all other formats. *They have no time for "conversion".
>
> except that some businesses are. *hsbc is considering switching from
> blackberry to iphone:

A hidden business benefit some are missing is the economics of scale.
As Apple takes a sophisticated piece of hardware and software and
produces millions of copies the price can drop to where the cost is
insignificant compared to the benefits business gets by adapting to an
easy to find tool. Right now there opportunities for new and under
employed programmers to identify and develop apps for a vertical
market that incorporates the iPhone. They can become wealthy in a
short period of time if they make the right choices and if they can
produce what is desired by businesses before anyone else grabs the
market. Look at the software already there just for the medical field.

Apple benefits if more businesses choose their hardware to replace
aging Windows XP boxes. Right now Apple is on track to past IBM in
total capitalization sometime early next year. Apple just blew past
Google and is still growing. The only way to kill Apple would be to
kill Jobs and hope they can not find a similar replacement with his
vision and management style. I suspect Job's death will be the end of
Apple and it will unwind after he dies.

The CEO of Verizon seems to hope that happens sooner rather than later
now that Verizon has to compete against the iPhone.

All he has to do is tell Verizon customers it is ok to buy an iPhone
for surfing the Internet, listening to Podcasts, reading push email,
and carrying all your office or college texts around, just carry your
friendly Verizon phone as a backup if needed.

At 15 Aug 2008 06:07:18 -0700 4phun wrote:

> > except that some businesses are. *hsbc is considering switching from
> > blackberry to iphone:
>
> A hidden business benefit some are missing is the economics of scale..
> As Apple takes a sophisticated piece of hardware and software and
> produces millions of copies the price can drop to where the cost is
> insignificant compared to the benefits business gets by adapting to an
> easy to find tool.

While true, it's device/platform agnostic. All device pricing benefits
from economies of scale- RIM, for example, pumps out more units than any
smartphone manufacturer, so arguably they can leverage that better than
anyone.

> Right now there opportunities for new and under
> employed programmers to identify and develop apps for a vertical
> market that incorporates the iPhone. They can become wealthy in a
> short period of time if they make the right choices and if they can
> produce what is desired by businesses before anyone else grabs the
> market. Look at the software already there just for the medical field.


True, but again, that's hardly new or unique. Developers have built
custom/vertical apps for smartphones for years., and in-house developers
have long built organization-specific apps.


> Apple benefits if more businesses choose their hardware to replace
> aging Windows XP boxes.


Yet that's not likely to be a big result of iPhone enterprise deployment,
since Outlook/Exchange is an important part of Apple's first steps into
this market. I doubt HSBC is considering "MobileMe" as their corporate e-
mail backbone! ;-)


> The only way to kill Apple would be to
> kill Jobs and hope they can not find a similar replacement with his
> vision and management style. I suspect Job's death will be the end of
> Apple and it will unwind after he dies.


Sadly, I agree, but in some ways that'd be a fitting end for a companythat
has benefitted so much from one man's guidance. On the other hand,
Christianity gained more from Jesus' death than his life... ;-)

> Verizon seems to hope that happens sooner rather than later
> now that Verizon has to compete against the iPhone.


That story is nearly as apocryphal as the Al Gore "invented the internet"
quote. Verizon's chief was essentially expressing the same theory we are-
Apple's success may only last as long as Jobs' major organs do.


> All he has to do is tell Verizon customers it is ok to buy an iPhone
> for surfing the Internet, listening to Podcasts, reading push email,
> and carrying all your office or college texts around, just carry your
> friendly Verizon phone as a backup if needed.

Alternately, all Apple has to do is add bluetooth DUN to the iPod Touch so
it allows an iPhone-like experience "Larry-style"- tethered to a BT
dumbphone in the user's back pocket.

You seem to forget that a great many customers, (though certainly not all,)
choose carrier first, and device second. I know people who'd stick with
Verizon even if they only offered rotary-dial cellphones with no features,
rather than switch to a smaller-footprint carrier with snazzy phones.

Other users simply hate touchscreen input of any kind, and want to dial and
text with physical buttons- they won't buy an iPhone until a hard-keyboard
model emerges.

Different strokes, as they say... Verizon has rode out many periods of not
having the "hot phone" of the moment in the past (IIRC, Cingular had the
RAZR as a 6 or 9 month exclusive) and does what any successful companydoes-
play to it's strengths. In Verizon's case, thats' "the network." I've
never heard of anyone flocking to Verizon primarily for the great handset
selection! ;-)

Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in news:g84ee1$fdf$1
@aioe.org:

> On the other hand,
> Christianity gained more from Jesus' death than his life... ;-)
>

......a figure that mounting evidence suggests may never have existed except
in men's minds....

Have you seen the movie linking this diety to being Marc Anthony and
Cleopatra's son? Same timeline, spent years from when he was 12 until he
was 30 in Nepal with Buddist monks and the monks STILL have the records to
prove it. Came back with a plan to take back the lands lost with a new
religion instead of swords and mass murder, for a change.

Most interesting.

nospam <[email protected]> wrote in
news:140820082028265056%[email protected]:

>>
>> How so? It has a very low resolution touchscreen
>
> actually it's one of the highest, at 163 pixels per inch, roughly
> *double* that of many computer displays.

Why would it have such a high resolution touchscreen with a pointing
device as big as your finger? That's crazy. With a finger, there's no
way, even FruitFones, can figure out where you're pointing your big
meathook.

>
>> with no stylus for
>> accuracy and fine input.
>
> and nothing to lose.

Simple test and observation.....

Dip your finger in an ink bottle to wet the end of it.....
Make a period on a piece of paper with printed text on it like the one
on a typewriter.

Which of the thousands of pixels, if what you say about its
TOUCHSCREEN's TOUCH resolution is true, are you pointed at with that
meathook with the big flat end?

Fingers are really ****ty pointing devices on a high resolution
touchpad....like your laptop.


>
>> It has no character recognition that I know
>> of.
>
> it can recognize chinese, but so what if it doesn't do recognition?

It really won't matter....unless you have a stylus screen, anyways. You
can't write on it with your meathook.

>
>> It has a poor finger keyboard for text input.
>
> actually it's fairly good.

Bull****. NONE of the touchscreen keyboards is any good for entering
text. If it were, your desktop computer would have a touchscreen.

>
>> It has no port
>> to plug devices into
>
> there's a dock connector on the bottom.

Which keyboard, hard drive, memory plug, serial port do I plug into this
wonderful proprietary port? It's proprietary for a reason...to prevent.


>> It has no cut and paste, a basic feature on any computing device.
>
> apple said they'd be adding it, but other features had a higher
> priority. there's also some indication that it may be in the next
> firmware release.

What "indication"? I see a wide variety screaming for it, but no
response at all from the arrogant company.

>
>> It has no word processing capability as it has no usable keyboard for
>> word processing.
>
> it wasn't intended to do that, but i did see an app that did text
> editing in the store.

But, once again, this is NOT an "enterprise tool". It's a toy. Every
businessman on the planet needs word processing, and not just for 150
byte love/screw messages to his secretary/lover, either. He needs to be
able to READ text files in STANDARD, not proprietary, formats used by
BUSINESS, not teenagers. That format is WORD and PDF. He needs to EDIT
those formats and make margin notations. Then, he needs to be able to
send the edited format back to his office for resolution. In short, he
needs a LAPTOP COMPUTER with a REAL KEYBOARD and REAL WORD PROCESSING
software. iToys aren't going to change that......and....more
important....

He needs that laptop to be ON THE NET, either tethered to a sellphone or
on its own aircard.....and iPhone has no tethering because of ATT's
hobbling.


>
>> It has no spreadsheet capability so cannot be used as a number
>> cruncher other than the simplest of basic hand calculator
>> calculations any $3 calculator from Dollar General does better with
>> its real keyboard.
>
> there's at least one spreadsheet app available in the store.
>
>> It cannot do complex calculations as it has no scientific calculator,
>
> it *ships* with a scientific calculator. if you are going to
> criticize it, at least pick things that are actually valid.
>
>> with or without a programming function. It's not a science device
>> with no complex calculations.
>
> there are a number of calculators available, both rpn and aos, along
> with hp clones.

I didn't see that. My apologies.....

>
>> It cannot display common video/audio formats used widely in business
>> such as Flash or most non-Apple video/audio formats.
>
> adobe has stated that they're comitted to getting flash on it.
>
>> It can't play the
>> Realvideo board meeting on a train because it has no Realplayer,
>> plugin or stand alone player.
>
> it's up to real to create a player for their proprietary format.

No, it's not. It's up to APPLE to make a DEAL with REAL to get Real to
port the player to it....exactly what Nokia did with my N800 tablet.
The same deal was made with Skype for VoIP. Real isn't going to come on
their knees to beg Jobs to allow them to port Realplayer to it. It
simply doesn't work like that.


>
>> It's media player is hobbled to sell iTunes
>> crap, hardly Business friendly.
>
> nonsense.

Then it will play the Powerpoint presentation from the main office in NY
while Mr Businessman is flying on Delta to Dallas?? What about the avi
movies of the last sales conference he missed because he was in Seattle
making a big sale that will keep the factory stoked until 2012?

nonsense, indeed.....it doesn't play standard formats BUSINESS is
addicted to!

>
>> It has no useful external memory, whatsoever. You cannot load your
>> office files onto a memory card, USB plug, portable media or portable
>> hard drive so you are forced to expose the company to internet access
>> many business users simply cannot permit. Webpage access to
>> sensitive company files, passwords and all, is just STUPID.
>
> nonsense. it has plenty of internal memory, more than most people
> actually use. it can hold whatever office files one wants to bring
> and there's no need to expose sensitive files.

BUSINESS isn't "most people". Business has vast databases of products
and numbers that must be constantly transferred from the mainframe to
the device, in realtime to special software written for Windows from
Business' IT department. This software needs to be constantly running
IN BACKGROUND the iPhone is incapable of, even if it could run the
program, which it can't. Business needs this data stored in large Excel
or Oracle files iPhone has no place to put.....gigabytes that fill a big
Laptop! Business doesn't give a **** about audio and video CLIPS that
run 60 seconds or 3 minutes. The sales meeting goes on for HOURS! Even
if it COULD use its camera to RECORD the meeting, it has no place to
STORE the video file, which is the reason it does not make movies in the
first place. The other problem is if it COULD store the 12GB video of
the sales meeting in Chicago, how would we get it to the PC or
mainframe, 3G? 3G doesn't do wifi. Shall we send it at Starbucks?
Hmm...Starbucks does about 1.5Mbps from its T-1 line when noone else is
using it. 1.5Mbps divided by 8 = 187KB/second. 12,000,000 KB video
divided by 187 = 17.82 HOURS to take it off the iPhone and put it on the
desktop at 1.5Mpbs, which would also be about the BEST 3G time. I bet
ATT would have a fit! They monitor every byte!

12GB would take almost an hour to put it on a hard drive from the 16GB
SDHC card in my N800 tablet's port, using the tablet's reversible USB
2.0 direct to the hard drive. Plug the card into Windoze XP and that
time triples. But it's not 18 hours and I can SWAP CARDS in the tablet
and just be on my way, letting the PC grind it off the other card all
night while I'm not in the office....or in a hotel room to the laptop.

Without a REAL REMOVABLE MEMORY, iPhone will NEVER be a BUSINESS TOOL.
Businesses, for security reasons, are NOT webapps!


>
>> You cannot run specialized software written by your company IT
>> professionals on it because you are not allowed to install any useful
>> programs on it without exposing the company to some kind of security
>> breach at Apple Computers.
>
> what ever gave you that idea? all it takes is to sign up as an iphone
> developer and there's no need to go thru apple to distribute it within
> the company.

Signing up as an iphone developer means sharing the company's secret
software with Apple. Why does Apple have to see what my company's IT
department is doing with the company's iPhone? NO business is going to
share its company secrets with APPLE COMPUTER....no matter what! The
software is top secret for a reason. It's cryptographics is very top
secret. They won't be sharing it with the toy manufacturer to look at
and spread around.

>
>> Even if you could get "permission" to
>> install the software,
>
> no permission is required.

Copy secret company files to the device.....
Click RUN to install and operate it.....
Now we find out there are secret URLs and server access to the device
via its OS in ROM. NO COMPANY is going to SHARE its secrets with a
device that has built-in company spyware. They uninstall Micro$oft's
company spyware before putting the first program on their desktops and
laptops. Business is, with good reasons, VERY paranoid about computer
companies and software companies.

>
>> The Cisco users do report the VPN support seems to work and is easy
>> to configure, but what will you do with that unsupported file format
>> once you download it to the iPhone?
>
> what unsupported file format is that?

Pick one....Powerpoint, Avi, DivX, Flash, JAVA, Word, Excel, and on and
on. Listing what it will play is easy....

>
>> The document was created in Word,
>> contains 3 Excel spreadsheets full of numbers and the presentation
>> that goes with it is a Powerpoint presentation. So, once you get it
>> to the iPhone, what can you do with it? You can't review it, edit
>> it, even display it! Worthless?
>
> iphone can display all of those.

Business doesn't need to display it. Business needs to EDIT AND CREATE
it.

>
>> Check off the file formats BUSINESS, not Electronic Arts, uses every
>> day that the iPhone supports:
>> http://www.ace.net.nz/tech/TechFileFormat.html
>> Which App Store apps will read/edit/store your changes so you can VPN
>> them back to the system?
>
> go look. there are nearly 2000 apps available.

.....nice deflection. 2000 apps, how many BUSINESS apps? How many
flashlights? The IT department at XYZ does NOT run external apps from
companies it never heard of and doesn't completely trust. It writes
apps to play on STANDARDIZED hardware under STANDARDIZED operating
systems like Linux or Windows XP. Hell, even Micro$oft can't get them
to buy VISTA because some idiot at M$ made the decision VISTA was not
going to run XP software! So, IT buys XP machines, not Vista. It buys
Linux machines it can DEPEND on because they integrate with the
company's Linux servers and networks. Even IBM uses Linux because
THAT'S WHAT BUSINESS IT DEPARTMENTS WANT!

>
>> The XYZ Corp uses a lot of video presentations to go with its
>> Powerpoints. I'd almost guarantee NONE of them are in H.264 or MP4
>> format, the only two formats iPhone plays. What do you expect XYZ to
>> do, convert the whole 96TB library of videos JUST so the grunts in
>> the field can show them on an iPhone?
>
> youtube converted to h.264.

Read the paragraph just below this line......

>
>> BUSINESS isn't going to BEND to the
>> iPhone. BUSINESS buys hardware and software that plays what that
>> business uses on all other formats. They have no time for
>> "conversion".
>
> except that some businesses are. hsbc is considering switching from
> blackberry to iphone:
> <http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardwar...order-200-000-
iPh
> o nes/0,130061702,339291247,00.htm>

HSBC uses blackberry for simple email and text messaging over TRUSTED
Blackberry servers it has used for years and years. Blackberry's
greatest asset for Business users is that TRUST. Blackberry has worked
very hard to earn and keep that trust, too.

Blackberry's are only for email and text messaging, not the laptop
replacement you all think Iphone can provide.

>
>> Of course, with no removable media to store the video on in the first
>> place from the company PC on your desktop, all this is moot. Try
>> sending a 3GB video file over iTunes. What a joke! Business has no
>> time for this crap.
>
> itunes has absolutely nothing to do with it.
>
>> It has no capability for any kind of video output that can be
>> connected to a large TV or monitor display so we can't use it at the
>> meeting with the clients, anyways.
>
> nonsense. of course it can output to a tv. where do you come up with
> stuff?

I must have missed it. WHERE is the TV interface port on the iPhone
where I can plug in a video monitor or NTSC TV set or HDMI plug? Is
there an adapter for the ipod port on the bottom?

Good luck seling this to business....

Notice I took off the Verizon newsgroup....Why do you persist in
propagating iphone bull**** to Verizon?

4phun <[email protected]> wrote in news:cbda194c-e09d-4ed6-aa70-
[email protected]:

> A hidden business benefit

Your credibility went to **** telling me how fast it would read a FLASH
speedtest.....

In article <[email protected]>, Larry
<[email protected]> wrote:

> nospam <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:140820082028265056%[email protected]:
>
> >> How so? It has a very low resolution touchscreen
> >
> > actually it's one of the highest, at 163 pixels per inch, roughly
> > *double* that of many computer displays.
>
> Why would it have such a high resolution touchscreen with a pointing
> device as big as your finger? That's crazy. With a finger, there's no
> way, even FruitFones, can figure out where you're pointing your big
> meathook.

sharp detailed output.

> >> It has a poor finger keyboard for text input.
> >
> > actually it's fairly good.
>
> Bull****. NONE of the touchscreen keyboards is any good for entering
> text. If it were, your desktop computer would have a touchscreen.

hyperbole.

> >> It has no port
> >> to plug devices into
> >
> > there's a dock connector on the bottom.
>
> Which keyboard, hard drive, memory plug, serial port do I plug into this
> wonderful proprietary port? It's proprietary for a reason...to prevent.

the pinouts are available and there are a number of third party devices
that use the ipod docking port. the obvious ones are chargers and fm
transmitters, but some of the more unusual ones (at least for the ipod)
include a breathalyzer.

> >> It has no cut and paste, a basic feature on any computing device.
> >
> > apple said they'd be adding it, but other features had a higher
> > priority. there's also some indication that it may be in the next
> > firmware release.
>
> What "indication"? I see a wide variety screaming for it, but no
> response at all from the arrogant company.

iphone developers have found evidence of it in the developer seeds of
the latest firmware update.

> >> It has no word processing capability as it has no usable keyboard for
> >> word processing.
> >
> > it wasn't intended to do that, but i did see an app that did text
> > editing in the store.
>
> But, once again, this is NOT an "enterprise tool". It's a toy. Every
> businessman on the planet needs word processing, and not just for 150
> byte love/screw messages to his secretary/lover, either. He needs to be
> able to READ text files in STANDARD, not proprietary, formats used by
> BUSINESS, not teenagers. That format is WORD and PDF. He needs to EDIT
> those formats and make margin notations. Then, he needs to be able to
> send the edited format back to his office for resolution. In short, he
> needs a LAPTOP COMPUTER with a REAL KEYBOARD and REAL WORD PROCESSING
> software. iToys aren't going to change that......and....more
> important....

then get a laptop. the iphone is not intended to *replace* a laptop,
just as a laptop is not intended to replace a desktop (most people have
both).

> > it's up to real to create a player for their proprietary format.
>
> No, it's not.

actually, it is.

> It's up to APPLE to make a DEAL with REAL to get Real to
> port the player to it....exactly what Nokia did with my N800 tablet.
> The same deal was made with Skype for VoIP. Real isn't going to come on
> their knees to beg Jobs to allow them to port Realplayer to it. It
> simply doesn't work like that.

if real sees a business opportunity, they'll jump on it. perhaps you
overestimate the need for it.

> BUSINESS isn't "most people". Business has vast databases of products
> and numbers that must be constantly transferred from the mainframe to
> the device, in realtime to special software written for Windows from
> Business' IT department. This software needs to be constantly running
> IN BACKGROUND the iPhone is incapable of, even if it could run the
> program, which it can't. Business needs this data stored in large Excel
> or Oracle files iPhone has no place to put.....gigabytes that fill a big
> Laptop!

so all businesses use excel and oracle? every single one?

> Business doesn't give a **** about audio and video CLIPS that
> run 60 seconds or 3 minutes. The sales meeting goes on for HOURS! Even
> if it COULD use its camera to RECORD the meeting, it has no place to
> STORE the video file, which is the reason it does not make movies in the
> first place.

there's sufficient storage and there is at least one video app,
although it's for jailbroken phones at the moment. and if the meeting
is that important, get a traditional digital video camera. the iphone
does not have to do every possible thing to be a successful product.

> The other problem is if it COULD store the 12GB video of
> the sales meeting in Chicago, how would we get it to the PC or
> mainframe, 3G? 3G doesn't do wifi. Shall we send it at Starbucks?
> Hmm...Starbucks does about 1.5Mbps from its T-1 line when noone else is
> using it. 1.5Mbps divided by 8 = 187KB/second. 12,000,000 KB video
> divided by 187 = 17.82 HOURS to take it off the iPhone and put it on the
> desktop at 1.5Mpbs, which would also be about the BEST 3G time. I bet
> ATT would have a fit! They monitor every byte!

first of all, at&t doesn't monitor every byte and the iphone includes
an *unlimited* data plan (at least in the usa). second, connect the
iphone to a computer via usb and transfer the data. third, you could
use the app you chastised the other day. it does *exactly* what you
claim is so vital, and that's filesharing between the iphone and any
other computer, wirelessly.

> 12GB would take almost an hour to put it on a hard drive from the 16GB
> SDHC card in my N800 tablet's port, using the tablet's reversible USB
> 2.0 direct to the hard drive. Plug the card into Windoze XP and that
> time triples. But it's not 18 hours and I can SWAP CARDS in the tablet
> and just be on my way, letting the PC grind it off the other card all
> night while I'm not in the office....or in a hotel room to the laptop.

or just plug the iphone into a usb port.

> Without a REAL REMOVABLE MEMORY, iPhone will NEVER be a BUSINESS TOOL.
> Businesses, for security reasons, are NOT webapps!

nonsense.

> >> You cannot run specialized software written by your company IT
> >> professionals on it because you are not allowed to install any useful
> >> programs on it without exposing the company to some kind of security
> >> breach at Apple Computers.
> >
> > what ever gave you that idea? all it takes is to sign up as an iphone
> > developer and there's no need to go thru apple to distribute it within
> > the company.
>
> Signing up as an iphone developer means sharing the company's secret
> software with Apple.

no it doesn't.

> Why does Apple have to see what my company's IT
> department is doing with the company's iPhone?

they don't have to see what your it department is doing.

> >> Even if you could get "permission" to
> >> install the software,
> >
> > no permission is required.
>
> Copy secret company files to the device.....
> Click RUN to install and operate it.....
> Now we find out there are secret URLs and server access to the device
> via its OS in ROM. NO COMPANY is going to SHARE its secrets with a
> device that has built-in company spyware. They uninstall Micro$oft's
> company spyware before putting the first program on their desktops and
> laptops. Business is, with good reasons, VERY paranoid about computer
> companies and software companies.

then they should be glad that there's a way to block applications that
send location data without the user knowing about it. you wouldn't
want your secret whereabouts made known, now would you?

> >> The Cisco users do report the VPN support seems to work and is easy
> >> to configure, but what will you do with that unsupported file format
> >> once you download it to the iPhone?
> >
> > what unsupported file format is that?
>
> Pick one....Powerpoint, Avi, DivX, Flash, JAVA, Word, Excel, and on and
> on. Listing what it will play is easy....

pick only one? ok, i'll pick word. supported. i'm feeling lucky so
i'll pick two. powerpoint. also supported.

> The IT department at XYZ does NOT run external apps from
> companies it never heard of and doesn't completely trust. It writes
> apps to play on STANDARDIZED hardware under STANDARDIZED operating
> systems like Linux or Windows XP. Hell, even Micro$oft can't get them
> to buy VISTA because some idiot at M$ made the decision VISTA was not
> going to run XP software! So, IT buys XP machines, not Vista. It buys
> Linux machines it can DEPEND on because they integrate with the
> company's Linux servers and networks. Even IBM uses Linux because
> THAT'S WHAT BUSINESS IT DEPARTMENTS WANT!

linux has a very small market share (smaller than mac os x), so not too
many businesses want it. and once again, an it department can write
whatever they want for the iphone and deploy it internally, without
apple needing to see it. why is this so difficult to accept?

> > except that some businesses are. hsbc is considering switching from
> > blackberry to iphone:
> > <http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardwar...order-200-000-
> iPh
> > o nes/0,130061702,339291247,00.htm>
>
> HSBC uses blackberry for simple email and text messaging over TRUSTED
> Blackberry servers it has used for years and years. Blackberry's
> greatest asset for Business users is that TRUST. Blackberry has worked
> very hard to earn and keep that trust, too.

and the iphone now supports microsoft exchange. your point?

> Blackberry's are only for email and text messaging, not the laptop
> replacement you all think Iphone can provide.

so blackberries can't edit powerpoint or excel documents? oh no! they
must be a toy destined to fail.

> >> It has no capability for any kind of video output that can be
> >> connected to a large TV or monitor display so we can't use it at the
> >> meeting with the clients, anyways.
> >
> > nonsense. of course it can output to a tv. where do you come up with
> > stuff?
>
> I must have missed it. WHERE is the TV interface port on the iPhone
> where I can plug in a video monitor or NTSC TV set or HDMI plug? Is
> there an adapter for the ipod port on the bottom?

all that's needed is an adapter cable for either composite or component
video.

<http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1454>

On Aug 15, 1:29*pm, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
> At 15 Aug 2008 06:07:18 -0700 4phun wrote:
>
> > > except that some businesses are. *hsbc is considering switching from
> > > blackberry to iphone:

> Alternately, all Apple has to do is add bluetooth DUN to the iPod Touch so
> it allows an iPhone-like experience "Larry-style"- tethered to a BT
> dumbphone in the user's back pocket.
>

Todd, isn't the whole point of tethering that you have a relatively
crappy phone that can connect to the INTERNET but you really want the
real Internet on your laptop or tablet?

The iPhone for millions is proving to be a viable alternative to
booting up a laptop for many common tasks they want to quickly perform
at odd moments.

That is what is making it such a killer product. It isn't the phone
part, it is the shirt pocket friendly easy to use real Internet
connection people want with the iPhone. That is without having to
tether or even carry around a relatively heavy laptop. Or even to
carry a small, but bulky by comparison Nokia N800 table which also
must be tethered to someone's phone.

IMHO There is a lot of old school thinking that can not see the forest
but for all the trees in the way.

"4phun" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> > Alternately, all Apple has to do is add bluetooth DUN to the iPod Touch
> > so
> > it allows an iPhone-like experience "Larry-style"- tethered to a BT
> > dumbphone in the user's back pocket.
>
> Todd, isn't the whole point of tethering that you have a relatively
> crappy phone that can connect to the INTERNET but you really want the
> real Internet on your laptop or tablet?

Actually the point of tethering is get internet access on any device that
doesn't have it where you are at the moment, using the phone you're already
paying for.

Since you said "All [Verizon's CEO] has to do is tell Verizon
customers it is ok to buy an iPhone
for surfing the Internet, listening to Podcasts, reading push email,
and carrying all your office or college texts around, just carry your
friendly Verizon phone as a backup if needed" you're implying Verizon
service works lots of places AT&T (and therefore the iPhone) DOESN'T, I was
suggesting that a Touch tethered to a Verizon phone (if made possible) would
give a better "iPhone" experience than an iPhone, since you'd have more
ubiquitous data connectivity.

> The iPhone for millions is proving to be a viable alternative to
> booting up a laptop for many common tasks they want to quickly perform
> at odd moments.

Perhaps, but the same can be said of dozens of similar products. Besides,
it's not like those "millions" were walking around with laptops to get
directions, browse the web or check e-mail prior to buying an iPhone. They
were using Blackberries or Treos, or not doing those things.

Commercials and brochures aside, there is still no task an iPhone performs
that wasn't possible without one.

> That is what is making it such a killer product. It isn't the phone
> part, it is the shirt pocket friendly easy to use real Internet
> connection people want with the iPhone.

Which bolsters MY argument- since the phone is the least impressive part, a
tetherable iPod Touch would be preferable, since you'd have the iPhone
goodies on the carrier (and data plan) of your choice, instead of being
locked into AT&T and a $30 iPhone dataplan.

> That is without having to
> tether or even carry around a relatively heavy laptop. Or even to
> carry a small, but bulky by comparison Nokia N800 table which also
> must be tethered to someone's phone.

Again, you missed my point- I was talking about tethering an iPod Touch to a
phone that worked "everywhere" as alternative to carrying two phones (and
therefore two monthly service plans.)


> IMHO There is a lot of old school thinking that can not see the forest
> but for all the trees in the way.

I think you're calling the wrong guy "old school." I've been using mobile
devices as laptop replacement ever since I started tethering my Casio E-100
(circa 2000) to an IR equipped Nokia 7160 cellphone, or used a CompactFlash
56k dialup modem. The state of the art (for both mobile devices and
laptops) has come a long way in eight years!

Ironically, we get different messages from our two resident shills- you tell
us the iPhone is a laptop replacement for "common tasks" and Oxford tells us
"just use your MacBook" whenever confronted with a common task the iPhone
can't handle! (And frankly, unless you've jailbroken it, the iPhone wasn't
even a contender as a laptop replacement until DataCase was released a
couple of days ago!)

In alt.cellular.verizon Richard B. Gilbert <[email protected]> wrote:

> Why are you telling us this? Who the hell CARES? A lot of us wouldn't
> have an iPhone if you GAVE it to us!

Why wouldn't you have an iPhone?

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel