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- 07-04-2010, 06:13 PM #46John NavasGuest
Re: Let the games begin!
On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 12:47:02 -0700, in
<[email protected]>, Jeff Liebermann
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Extra credit for Verizon still showing analog coverage on their map.
1. Increasingly out of date.
2. Not many people care, and the number continues to dwindle.
>Personal experience, and some info from Verizon dealers, employees and
>contractors. I don't want to reveal my sources. Note that dropped
>calls is their number one technical complaint (as of about 2 years
>ago).
That's probably true of all major carriers (for different reasons).
>To be fair, I don't know for sure if they're really intentionally
>dropping calls. I do know that I can't maintain a call for more than
>about 10 minutes at 5PM no matter how strong a signal. I was
>literally under the VZW cell site antenna when I was dropped. At
>other times of the day, that doesn't happen. I don't make too many
>calls at 5PM over 10 minutes, so my experience is limited. However, I
>deal with other local users that have had similar experiences.
Apocrophal story issues aside, while it may seem that being right under
a tower would give you the least liklihood of being dropped, it actually
tends to be just the opposite, since that location would tend to have
the least good coverage from neighboring cells, and is probably outside
the gain lobes of sector antennas.
>I
>really doubt that Verizon or any other carrier will admit that they're
>doing this but I do consider it a good way to free up channels when
>the system gets busy.
I think it extremely unlikely:
1. The story would inevitably get out from disaffected employees,
resulting in a firestorm.
2. Customers are more tolerant of connection problems than of dropped
calls (c.f. above).
3. Call blocking is the standard method for managing load.
>Cell breathing could easily cause the same effect. As the number of
>users increases, the base line noise level goes up. However, the way
>the cell site defends itself is to refuse to accept new connections
>until the noise level decreases to tolerable levels.
><http://www.macltd.com/datafile_downloads/MAC%20Ltd%20-%20Cell%20Breathing.pdf>
>See graph on Page 5. In theory, by blocking new calls, the noise
>level will never exceed some pre-defined level. Were sites located
>with some overlap, and the adjacent site has available channels,
>breathing should not create a dead zone.
CDMA2000 issues are load and available capacity, signal strength, and
call blocking (not dropping) policy. Channels are more a TDMA (GSM)
issue.
>More:
><http://reviews.ebay.com/Cell-Phone-Reception-Why-Does-My-Phone-Drop-Calls_W0QQugidZ10000000001602525>
>"Again, its rarely the cell phone that is the cause of dropped calls,
>it is the wireless network including its towers and switches."
What makes that an uathoritative article? The bit about switches
getting overloaded and dropping calls is quite unlikely according to my
friends at Motorola. Looks to me more like folk wisdom from D-AMPS days
than current technology. Doesn't even mention the problem of CDMA cell
breathing, a significant problem that I still think the most likely
cause of dropped calls on CDMA2000 networks.
Good presentation on cell breathing:
<http://www.macltd.com/datafile_downloads/MAC%20Ltd%20-%20Cell%20Breathing.pdf>
--
Best regards,
John
"Never attribute to malice that which can be
adequately explained by stupidity." [Hanlon's razor]
› See More: MiFi purchase and contract options?
- 07-04-2010, 06:23 PM #47John NavasGuest
Re: Let the games begin!
On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 13:04:50 -0700, in
<[email protected]>, Jeff Liebermann
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 15:09:52 +0000, Larry <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Jeff, did you see the news where the Feds are going to give up another 500
>>Mhz for more wireless bandwidth?
>Note the "federal and non-federal spectrum". That's about as vague as
>any politician could make it. I would guess that includes all
>spectrum.
>
>Never mind that any change in allocation will require ITC/WRC approval
>before it can be reallocated. At best, maybe 5 years for minor
>changes.
>
>The last and only release of federal spectrum was the shared release
>of 3650-3700Mhz in 2007, a paltry 50MHz.
A good deal of it is apparently expected to come from broadcasters who
would voluntarily agree in return for compensation from the auction.
<http://www.telecompaper.com/news/article.aspx?cid=742801>
--
Best regards,
John
"Never attribute to malice that which can be
adequately explained by stupidity." [Hanlon's razor]
- 07-04-2010, 06:24 PM #48John NavasGuest
Re: Let the games begin!
On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 08:08:13 +1000, in
<[email protected]>, David
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article
><[email protected]>,
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> David <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Strange why people are just complaining about the new phone, my 3GS has
>> > always dropped signal strength remarkably if I hold it with my hand
>> > around the top half/
>> >
>> > The difference is that it will go from 3bars to no bars depending on how
>> > I hold it, and that is with a case on it
>>
>> I bet you haven't actually logged and tracked your experiences.
>>
>> Your phone will go from 3 bars to no bars sitting on a table, not
>> moving, with NO ONE touching it. Case or no case.
>>
>> It has nothing to do with you and how you hold the phone, and everything
>> to do with....AT&T.
>
>Gee whiz I doubt that. Considering I am thousands of KM away from them
>living in the land of Oz I think it more likely it is to do with the
>design of the phone.
>
>And with laying down it doesn't change
>
>David - who wonders where people get such strange ideas from...
It can be shown easily that many different phones will show changing
signal strength in many places.
--
Best regards,
John
If the iPhone and iPad are really so impressive,
then why do iFans keep making excuses for them?
- 07-04-2010, 06:25 PM #49John NavasGuest
Re: Let the games begin!
On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 08:10:03 +1000, in
<[email protected]>, David
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> >
>> >Strange why people are just complaining about the new phone, my 3GS has
>> >always dropped signal strength remarkably if I hold it with my hand
>> >around the top half/
>> >
>> >The difference is that it will go from 3bars to no bars depending on how
>> >I hold it, and that is with a case on it
>>
>> It can be normal for signals bars to fluctuate even when not touching
>> the phone or moving. Some phones, for example, will switch back and
>> forth between the signal strength of home and foreign networks. This
>> can be very frustrating when a foreign network has a good signal and the
>> home network has a poor signal, but the phone is only allowed on the
>> home network.
>
>John, I live in a rural area where there is only one provider, Telstra.
>So it is the phone
It can be shown easily that many different phones will show changing
signal strength in many places.
--
Best regards,
John
"Never attribute to malice that which can be
adequately explained by stupidity." [Hanlon's razor]
- 07-04-2010, 07:05 PM #50DevilsPGDGuest
Re: Let the games begin!
In message <sLTXn.8277$3%[email protected]> Todd Allcock
<[email protected]> was claimed to have wrote:
>A good cloud service, like Exchange, uses the cloud as an intermediary
>between devices, as well as a backup. I sync two mobiles and three PCs
>with my cloud service. If my provider crashes e or vaporates tomorrow,
>my data is safe in five locations, any of which can restore the data to
>another server/provider.
Sidekick was similar, except that data was lost after a reboot.
Although it's not as easy a reboot to lose your data in the event of an
Exchange failure, if the Exchange server comes back up with a blank
mailbox (using the same credentials) you'll lose all your data on the
device. Even worse, should you attempt to remove the account from your
device or change it to a new server, you'll again lose all your data.
The model of treating the server as authoritative is a good one in
general (SyncML is an example of the disaster that happens without an
authoritative owner) but it relies on the server administrators having
proper backup procedures in place. This isn't too difficult (and is
several orders of magnitude easier to implement than having ever user
attempt to backup their own data)
- 07-04-2010, 07:08 PM #51John NavasGuest
Re: Let the games begin!
On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 18:05:14 -0700, in
<[email protected]>, DevilsPGD
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In message <sLTXn.8277$3%[email protected]> Todd Allcock
><[email protected]> was claimed to have wrote:
>
>>A good cloud service, like Exchange, uses the cloud as an intermediary
>>between devices, as well as a backup. I sync two mobiles and three PCs
>>with my cloud service. If my provider crashes e or vaporates tomorrow,
>>my data is safe in five locations, any of which can restore the data to
>>another server/provider.
>
>Sidekick was similar, except that data was lost after a reboot.
The Sidekick data was recovered. The problem was incompetant
administration by Microsoft, not the technology.
>Although it's not as easy a reboot to lose your data in the event of an
>Exchange failure, if the Exchange server comes back up with a blank
>mailbox (using the same credentials) you'll lose all your data on the
>device. Even worse, should you attempt to remove the account from your
>device or change it to a new server, you'll again lose all your data.
Not if it's backed up properly.
>The model of treating the server as authoritative is a good one in
>general (SyncML is an example of the disaster that happens without an
>authoritative owner)
SyncML works quite well.
>but it relies on the server administrators having
>proper backup procedures in place. This isn't too difficult (and is
>several orders of magnitude easier to implement than having ever user
>attempt to backup their own data)
Yep.
--
Best regards,
John
"Assumption is the mother of all screw ups."
[Wethern’s Law of Suspended Judgement]
- 07-04-2010, 07:10 PM #52John NavasGuest
Re: Let the games begin!
On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 22:04:14 -0600, in
<sLTXn.8277$3%[email protected]>, Todd Allcock
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Yes, about a week after the server crash.
>
>Of course that didn't make as many headlines as the loss did!
>
><http://www.betanews.com/article/Micr...for-resolving-
>Sidekick-data-loss-but-not-for-causing-it/1255618540>
>
>The real problem with the Sidekick's method of "cloud computing" was that
>there was essentially no local storage- the data was on the cloud and
>phone only, with no backup.
There was backup. There was also fault tolerance. The problem was
incompetant administration by Microsoft, not the Danger technology.
>A good cloud service, like Exchange, uses the cloud as an intermediary
>between devices, as well as a backup. I sync two mobiles and three PCs
>with my cloud service. If my provider crashes e or vaporates tomorrow,
>my data is safe in five locations, any of which can restore the data to
>another server/provider.
It makes sense to maintain your own backup,
just as it makes sense to replicate your backup in the cloud.
--
Best regards,
John
If the iPhone and iPad are really so impressive,
then why do iFans keep making excuses for them?
- 07-04-2010, 07:14 PM #53nospamGuest
Re: Let the games begin!
In article <[email protected]>, John Navas
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >The real problem with the Sidekick's method of "cloud computing" was that
> >there was essentially no local storage- the data was on the cloud and
> >phone only, with no backup.
>
> There was backup. There was also fault tolerance. The problem was
> incompetant administration by Microsoft, not the Danger technology.
actually they decided to upgrade the system without having an up to
date backup in place and had to reconstruct it to recover most (not
all) of the data.
and yes, it was incompetence by microsoft.
> >A good cloud service, like Exchange, uses the cloud as an intermediary
> >between devices, as well as a backup. I sync two mobiles and three PCs
> >with my cloud service. If my provider crashes e or vaporates tomorrow,
> >my data is safe in five locations, any of which can restore the data to
> >another server/provider.
>
> It makes sense to maintain your own backup,
> just as it makes sense to replicate your backup in the cloud.
depends on what the data is. some things *can't* be in the cloud.
- 07-04-2010, 07:33 PM #54Jeff LiebermannGuest
Re: Let the games begin!
On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 17:23:30 -0700, John Navas
<[email protected]> wrote:
>A good deal of it is apparently expected to come from broadcasters who
>would voluntarily agree in return for compensation from the auction.
><http://www.telecompaper.com/news/article.aspx?cid=742801>
A bit more detail. Note that Blair Levin wants to take back the 2nd
broadcast channel that the broadcasters received from the FCC in trade
for going digital:
<http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/2009/10/21/daily.4/>
Based on past auctions, he figures the auction of
some 300 Mhz of broadcast spectrum would bring in
up to $75 billion.
So, $75 billion is what 300MHz is worth. How much is the government
willing to pay the TV broadcasters to go away? So far, no numbers.
There are:
1,813 TV/Digital Stations
11,332 FM Stations
5,091 AM Stations
3,649 Low power FM and TV stations
The TV stations take in about $21 billion per year in advertising
revenue:
<http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/453741-SNL_Kagan_Stations_Seeing_21_Bil_in_2010_Revenue.php>
Assuming the FCC want to make a substantial profit on this auction, it
would not make much sense for the broadcasters to sell. Also, if this
is all about job creation, it's a funny way to do it by decimating
broadcast jobs.
So, the broadcasters ummm... voluntarily contribute 300MHz. Where
will the other 200MHz come from?
There are other ways to squeeze blood from a turnip:
"President Proposes $4.8 Billion in Spectrum-user Fees"
<http://www.televisionbroadcast.com/article/94044>
Of course the buyers of all this spectrum are going to pass on the $75
billion in auction bids to the consumer. I can't wait to see how much
this new mobile and fixed broadband service is going to cost the
consumer.
The FCC has also been rather busy auctioning whatever they can find:
<http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/default.htm?job=bandplans>
Some auctions went for peanuts.
--
Jeff Liebermann [email protected]
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
- 07-04-2010, 10:16 PM #55Junior Member
- Posts
- 14
Re: Let the games begin!
"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "More suits filed in iPhone 4 antenna fracas"
> <http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-20009625-260.html>
This lawsuit is marginally frivolous, but it wouldn't bother me at all if
Apple decided that the best way out of this mess was simply to provide free
cases. They'd likely be out a few dollars each (they're apparently a bit
more complicated than the $.10 variety) but it would restore confidence.
By the way, Apple's claim that it's a signal-strength-"indication"-only
issue is bogus. I can hold mine such that it not only drops the signal bars
from full to maybe one, but will also drop calls. If it was just an issue
with the indication, it wouldn't be dropping calls (something it won't do if
the phone is left on a table, for example).
The other issue I have (which would likely be solved by a case) is that it's
a really easy phone to drop (it's shape isn't very friendly to hold) and it
slides across furniture, even fabric-covered, causing it to become one with
the floor if you're not really careful.
Despite that, I have found it one of my best upgrades ever. It's got a
camera that's actually useful, it's dramatically speedier than the old
phone, its web browsing never hangs like my 3G frequently did, the battery
lasts longer, and it's actually got voice dialing (which I discovered by
accident).
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
- 07-04-2010, 10:23 PM #56atec7 7Guest
Re: Let the games begin!
nospam wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, John Navas
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Yep -- HTC makes great phones, which is why Apple has decided it has to
>> compete in court instead of just in the market.
>
> nonsense. how conveniently you forget that htc infringed not only on
> apple intellectual property, but microsoft too.
You think we care even if you can prove it because ?
- 07-04-2010, 10:27 PM #57atec7 7Guest
Re: Let the games begin!
David wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> David <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Strange why people are just complaining about the new phone, my 3GS has
>>> always dropped signal strength remarkably if I hold it with my hand
>>> around the top half/
>>>
>>> The difference is that it will go from 3bars to no bars depending on how
>>> I hold it, and that is with a case on it
>> I bet you haven't actually logged and tracked your experiences.
>>
>> Your phone will go from 3 bars to no bars sitting on a table, not
>> moving, with NO ONE touching it. Case or no case.
>>
>> It has nothing to do with you and how you hold the phone, and everything
>> to do with....AT&T.
>
> Gee whiz I doubt that. Considering I am thousands of KM away from them
> living in the land of Oz I think it more likely it is to do with the
> design of the phone.
>
> And with laying down it doesn't change
>
> David - who wonders where people get such strange ideas from...
Both my Lg and HTC phones woop the 4 phone on transmission and currently
the few aps I use on my normal phones are free . no thanks apple it's a
dud imho
- 07-04-2010, 10:45 PM #58nospamGuest
Re: Let the games begin!
In article <[email protected]>, Mike
Jacoubowsky <[email protected]> wrote:
> This lawsuit is marginally frivolous, but it wouldn't bother me at all if
> Apple decided that the best way out of this mess was simply to provide free
> cases. They'd likely be out a few dollars each (they're apparently a bit
> more complicated than the $.10 variety) but it would restore confidence.
marginally frivolous? have you read the filings?
they are claiming all sorts of stuff, including willful and malicious
intent. it reads as if someone sat down and made a long giant list of
every possible thing, just to see which ones stick and which are
rejected.
> By the way, Apple's claim that it's a signal-strength-"indication"-only
> issue is bogus. I can hold mine such that it not only drops the signal bars
> from full to maybe one, but will also drop calls. If it was just an issue
> with the indication, it wouldn't be dropping calls (something it won't do if
> the phone is left on a table, for example).
that can happen with any phone. anandtech found that it held onto calls
better than other phones, even with the drop in bars.
> The other issue I have (which would likely be solved by a case) is that it's
> a really easy phone to drop (it's shape isn't very friendly to hold) and it
> slides across furniture, even fabric-covered, causing it to become one with
> the floor if you're not really careful.
that's a different issue. one major drawback to the glass on both front
and back is you can't tell which way it's facing by feel, whereas you
can with the older iphone and just about every other phone.
> Despite that, I have found it one of my best upgrades ever. It's got a
> camera that's actually useful, it's dramatically speedier than the old
> phone, its web browsing never hangs like my 3G frequently did, the battery
> lasts longer, and it's actually got voice dialing (which I discovered by
> accident).
the 3gs had voice dialing too.
- 07-04-2010, 11:09 PM #59John NavasGuest
Re: Let the games begin!
On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 14:27:45 +1000, in
<[email protected]>, atec7 7 <""atec77\"@
hotmail.com"> wrote:
>David wrote:
>> Gee whiz I doubt that. Considering I am thousands of KM away from them
>> living in the land of Oz I think it more likely it is to do with the
>> design of the phone.
>>
>> And with laying down it doesn't change
>Both my Lg and HTC phones woop the 4 phone on transmission and currently
>the few aps I use on my normal phones are free . no thanks apple it's a
>dud imho
Big part of the reason the Droid is such a smash hit is the excellent
radio performance, which is no surprise given Motorola's expertise.
--
John
If the iPhone and iPad are really so impressive,
then why do iFans keep making excuses for them?
- 07-04-2010, 11:29 PM #60DevilsPGDGuest
Re: Let the games begin!
In message <[email protected]> Larry
<[email protected]> was claimed to have wrote:
>Ruling out other causes is very easy. Just pick up the cheapest free phone
>ATT sells and dial out a call right next to iPhone 4. Does the call work?
>Yes? Not the infrastructure or traffic's fault. That points it quickly at
>the real cause of failures.....iPhone 4's defective antenna system.
I had a friend down in the US try it. He can reproduce the signal drop
problem fairly easily, but only when he's in an area with already
marginal signal. Luckily his daily commute passes through just such an
area so he's been able to test.
The only way he can get the iPhone 4 to drop a call is to keep driving
until his other phone drops a call, then grab his iPhone 4 the "wrong"
way.
If he leaves both sitting on the seat beside him, the iPhone 4 holds on
to the call longer. If he holds it the "wrong" way, it's about 50/50
which call drops off first but they're very close.
Testing was done on a 3G Blackberry of some sort, I believe he's using a
Bold these days.
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