A new winner!...amazing.

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:45:07 -0700, in
<[email protected]>, Steve Sobol
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>says...
>
>> Too bad it's on t-Mobile's tiny footprint....another thing that will DOOM
>> it.
>
>In spite of the fact that T-Mo has a small footprint, I still want that
>phone.

No problemo -- it will be available on all four major carriers.

--
John

"Assumption is the mother of all screw ups."
[Wethern’s Law of Suspended Judgement]

---

› See More: A new winner!...amazing.

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 08:41:01 -0500, in
<[email protected]>, Jolly Roger
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> danny burstein <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In <[email protected]> SMS <[email protected]>
>> writes:
>>
>> >The logic of the Smart Car, other than the low initial price, escapes
>> >me. The Smart is rated 41 highway, 33 city, not nearly as good as the
>> >Prius or Civic hybrid.

Because, as in so many other things, you have zero experience with one.

>> If you're in an area where parking is difficult, such as NYC,
>> el Schmarrrt lets you park in quite a few places that other
>> car drivers have to bypass...

Yep.

>I don't think that will matter very much if you're dead from a bad
>collision.

It does well in crash testing.

--
John

"Assumption is the mother of all screw ups."
[Wethern’s Law of Suspended Judgement]

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:55:49 -0500, in
<[email protected]>, Jolly Roger
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 16/07/10 6:36 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> > In article<[email protected]>,
>> > SMS<[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 16/07/10 1:46 AM, Steve Sobol wrote:
>> >>
>> >> <snip>
>> >>
>> >>> I bet I could do better in a Smart fortwo, but I like that my car
>> >>> actually has interior room, since I drive a lot.
>> >>>
>> >>> (19,080 miles on the odometer, and the car is only 9 months old.)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> The logic of the Smart Car, other than the low initial price, escapes
>> >> me. The Smart is rated 41 highway, 33 city, not nearly as good as the
>> >> Prius or Civic hybrid.
>> >>
>> >> If you're going to be driving a gazillion miles then you'll save money
>> >> with the Prius over the Smart Car. If you're not going to be driving a
>> >> tremendous amount of miles then something like the Toyota Yaris (36/29),
>> >> Hyundai Accent (36/27), or Kia Forte (36/27) or Rio (36/27) is still
>> >> very inexpensive and offers much more room.
>> >>
>> >> I assume that the actual mpg scales similarly for all the vehicles, and
>> >> is higher than the EPA rating. The new EPA rating system was intended to
>> >> be more realistic, but I find the estimates to be quite low. We average
>> >> 42 MPG highway in a Camry hybrid which is rated at 34 highway, and
>> >> that's not driving at 55 MPH. The MPG graphs also really teach you to
>> >> drive more efficiently in city driving as the feedback is immediate.
>> >
>> > I couldn't care less about initial cost and miles per ****ing gallon if
>> > the piece of **** is a literal death trap.
>>
>> Fortunately, the Smart Car has very good safety ratings.
>> "http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr051408.html"
>
>Bull****. It may have good safety ratings among cars that are _the same
>size_, but it certainly isn't anywhere near as safe as my BMW 335i.
>Pfft! Get real. The article you mentioned even says it outright:
>
>"Frontal ratings can't be compared across weight classes, meaning a
>small car that earns a good rating isn't safer than a large car that's
>rated less than good."
>
>Again, some people have their priorities wrong. Those cars are death
>traps, plain and simple.

Feel free to prove that, if you can, with actual safety data.
You'll not that easy, because it's actually good in terms of safety.

--
John

"Assumption is the mother of all screw ups."
[Wethern’s Law of Suspended Judgement]

SMS <[email protected]> wrote in news:4c405b14$0$22148
[email protected]:

> If you're going to be driving a gazillion miles then you'll save money
> with the Prius over the Smart Car.

NO hybrid car is cheaper to drive than ANY of the tiny cars you list.

The BATTERY PACK in a Prius is over $9000! That MUST be factored into
the "saving money" equation because it's REQUIRED to be replaced when
its capacity drops or the car is going to be DOA. That's a LOT of
money, $9000! That's also a factor in buying a USED hybrid vehicle.
One can only ASSUME the amazingly expensive, high tech battery pack
needs replacement. Walmart's auto department doesn't stock them. You
KNOW what's going to happen at your Toyota or Honda dealer....at
superretail.

Walk up to your local Prius dealer's parts counter and tell him you need
a new battery pack for your 200x Prius that's out of warranty. Watch
his face pale before he gives you the really bad news......he doesn't
have one.

I'd never buy an off-the-shelf-where-it's-been-since-this-car-was-new
battery pack from the dealer's warehouse in the heat, anyways. I want a
FRESH $9000 battery pack made 3 weeks ago for that much money!

No hybrids....no thanks. Great idea, but not with current battery
technology. Maybe some day. EEstor has never delivered the massive
capacitor that will "revolutionize" ecar storage. That might make me
change my mind because the massive nanotube capacitor will NOT need
$9000 replacements at regular intervals.

EPA ratings sure have gotten more conservative than they used to be.
Remember when the huge V-8 supervans were rated for 29 hwy and 24 city
not long ago?

One more Yaris comment. I was seriously considering this car until I
saw this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcTf78b8WfY

Now, compare that to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02eghIfyHP0

Notice noone's legs got crushed in the Smart, unlike Yaris where the
cabin failed, miserably, crushing the passengers. Notice the Smart used
the Mercedes' crush zones to protect ITSELF! Notice the windshield
didn't shatter or come out. Notice the DOORS were still SHUT, intact!

That's the Trition Cell protecting the passengers. Smart is MUCH safer
then the other little cars. Of course, someone is going to show the
Smart crushed between two 18-wheelers in a road crash. I don't give a
**** what you're driving, you'll be crushed to death between two semis.
The two bumpers on a full size Ford Expedition are about a foot apart in
such a crash.

Crash into a brick wall at 70, you'll die from G-forces in any vehicle.
The Smart protected the body parts that are left....doors opened, both
of them!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s

Y'all drive careful now, ya heah?!

--
iPhone 4 is to cellular technology what the Titanic is to cruise ships.

Larry

"bj" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> My Dad had an Itallian Isetta 50+ years ago. He got a special assigned
> parking place at work, practically in front of the door! because of it
> -- he could use that little triangle that's left at the end of angled
> parking. If he took the other car he had to use his
> hunting-license-pass in the regular (less convenient) general lot.
>

One of my high school teachers has an Isetta with the front door. She was
the ONLY car that could make it up the very steep hill by the Elementary
School in winter. That little two stroker had some serious traction!

The boys in the football team, however, were constantly stealing her car
from the parking lot and putting it other places....Boys gym shower, the
principal's office (a great hack before computers), the front porch of the
school up 14 steps, the teacher's lounge, the end of the cafeteria line
with a window tray from the local drive-in burger joint hanging on the
window, complete with the post speaker sitting next to it.....

All great fun. She never expected the Isetta to be in her parking space at
4PM.....(c;]

"Boys, can I have my car back, now? I have to go get my kids!", she'd
beg....

The car was the defacto Bluedevils' sports mascot at every game. It would
come driving into the gym during halftime at basketball games to the
delight of everyone except the referees....(c;]



--
iPhone 4 is to cellular technology what the Titanic is to cruise ships.

Larry

Jolly Roger <[email protected]> wrote in news:jollyroger-
[email protected]:

> I couldn't care less about initial cost and miles per ****ing gallon if
> the piece of **** is a literal death trap.
>
> <http://www.moral-flexibility.net/images/smartcar_accident_01.jpg>
>
> The Stupid car has horrid safety issues. People obviously have their
> priorities all messed up.
>
>

I'm 64. My life is pretty much "over". I've been riding various 2-wheeled
vehicles since I was 15 and currently own a plastic Honda Reflex scooter I
also love to drive around the city.

Compared to any motorcycle made, Smart is like riding in an army tank for
safety.

If I cared about "being safe", I'd probably never leave the house......



--
iPhone 4 is to cellular technology what the Titanic is to cruise ships.

Larry

On 16.07.2010 17:55, Jolly Roger wrote:
> [...]
> Bull****. It may have good safety ratings among cars that are _the same
> size_, but it certainly isn't anywhere near as safe as my BMW 335i.
> Pfft! Get real. The article you mentioned even says it outright:
>
> "Frontal ratings can't be compared across weight classes, meaning a
> small car that earns a good rating isn't safer than a large car that's
> rated less than good."

And you're still driving that dangerously lightweight BMW instead of a
Hummer? Or, better yet, a tank?

Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Larry <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> NO hybrid car is cheaper to drive than ANY of the tiny cars you list.
>>
>> The BATTERY PACK in a Prius is over $9000! That MUST be factored into
>> the "saving money" equation because it's REQUIRED to be replaced when
>> its capacity drops or the car is going to be DOA.
>
> It's warranted for 150,000 or 100,000 miles, depending on the state. and
> it doesn't cost anywhere near nine grand; $2,500 is closer. And used ones
> sell for about a grand on eBay.
>
> So Larry, as usual, you're full of ****.

Oh, be kind. Larry is maybe research-impaired and hyperbole-enhanced.....
How's dat for PC today!??!

--
john mcwilliams

Michelle Steiner <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Larry <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> NO hybrid car is cheaper to drive than ANY of the tiny cars you list.
>>
>> The BATTERY PACK in a Prius is over $9000! That MUST be factored
>> into the "saving money" equation because it's REQUIRED to be replaced
>> when its capacity drops or the car is going to be DOA.
>
> It's warranted for 150,000 or 100,000 miles, depending on the state.
> and it doesn't cost anywhere near nine grand; $2,500 is closer. And
> used ones sell for about a grand on eBay.
>
> So Larry, as usual, you're full of ****.
>

http://www.hybridcars.com/forums/pri...tery-t254.html

"My employer has a fleet of twenty 2003's. They are now buying more
05's. In the first year, the maintenance dept had to replace two Prius
batteries at $5000 each. We were informed that the Prius battery is NOT
intended for use to "limp home", but merely move your car safely off the
road. Now when someone runs out of gas, a call is made. I bought an 04
Prius in December, 2003. The manual gives the same information."

Yes, Michelle, I'm always full of **** because I'm an old man whos dealt
with many car companies over the years and years of ****ty service and
warranty problems........

Getting Toyota to fix a very expensive dead Prius battery is something
like getting your ****ty iPhone 4 antenna replace by the wonderful
service department of Apple, Inc.

"You abused this battery and we can prove it so we're not going to
replace the battery. YOU pay for it."

Bull****. I'd rather have a more conventional drive train it doesn't
take a $5000 or 8000 or even $1000 battery to make it go.


--
iPhone 4 is to cellular technology what the Titanic is to cruise ships.

Larry

In article <[email protected]>,
Larry <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm 64. My life is pretty much "over".

You're depressed!

I was depressed last night so I called Lifeline.

Got a call center in Pakistan.
I told them I was suicidal.

They got all excited and asked if I could drive a truck.

On 16/07/10 10:39 AM, Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> Larry<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> NO hybrid car is cheaper to drive than ANY of the tiny cars you list.
>>
>> The BATTERY PACK in a Prius is over $9000! That MUST be factored into
>> the "saving money" equation because it's REQUIRED to be replaced when
>> its capacity drops or the car is going to be DOA.
>
> It's warranted for 150,000 or 100,000 miles, depending on the state. and
> it doesn't cost anywhere near nine grand; $2,500 is closer. And used ones
> sell for about a grand on eBay.

Actually the Prius hybrid will function just fine with a battery with
reduced capacity, with very slightly reduced MPG. But the way Toyota
does the battery management means that the battery will last a very very
long time. They never charge it to 100% nor discharge it very far down.
They're using NiMH batteries which, when not stressed by complete
discharging or complete charging, will easily last 150K miles. The range
of a Prius on battery power is very very short, just a few miles.

Something like the Chevy Volt, which is not use a hybrid drive system
(the gasoline engine simply charges the battery) will not work with a
bad battery.

In article <[email protected]>,
Jolly Roger <[email protected]> wrote:

> Bull****. It may have good safety ratings among cars that are _the same
> size_,

exactly.

> but it certainly isn't anywhere near as safe as my BMW 335i.
> Pfft! Get real. The article you mentioned even says it outright:

and your bmw isn't as safe as an suv or a mack truck.

> "Frontal ratings can't be compared across weight classes, meaning a
> small car that earns a good rating isn't safer than a large car that's
> rated less than good."
>
> Again, some people have their priorities wrong. Those cars are death
> traps, plain and simple.

learn how to drive.

SMS <[email protected]> wrote in news:4c40afeb$0$22142
[email protected]:

> But the way Toyota
> does the battery management means that the battery will last a very very
> long time. They never charge it to 100% nor discharge it very far down.
> They're using NiMH batteries which, when not stressed by complete
> discharging or complete charging, will easily last 150K miles. The range
> of a Prius on battery power is very very short, just a few miles.
>

Obviously, from what the posters whos Prius ran out of gasoline that tried
to limp the Prius home on its battery pack have posted....If you drive the
Prius on its battery when the engine won't start....any further than the
edge of the road where it stalled.....it will FRY THE BATTERY PACK AND
TOYOTA WILL NOT REPLACE IT!

The Prius battery ISN'T MADE TO DRIVE THE CAR....it will FRY IT!

Amazing.....What's the point?

--
iPhone 4 is to cellular technology what the Titanic is to cruise ships.

Larry

On 16/07/10 12:38 PM, Larry wrote:

> The Prius battery ISN'T MADE TO DRIVE THE CAR....it will FRY IT!

It will not. The worst case is that the main battery has to be recharged
at the dealer.

On 16/07/10 11:16 AM, Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> Larry<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> http://www.hybridcars.com/forums/pri...tery-t254.html
>>
>> "My employer has a fleet of twenty 2003's. They are now buying more
>> 05's. In the first year, the maintenance dept had to replace two Prius
>> batteries at $5000 each.
>
> The 2003 model is a completely different car than the 2004 and later
> models; it uses a different battery pack, for one thing.
>
> And why would they have to pay for the battery replacement if the car is
> less than a year old? It was still under warranty.
>
>> Yes, Michelle, I'm always full of **** because I'm an old man whos dealt
>> with many car companies over the years and years of ****ty service and
>> warranty problems......
>
> No, you're full of **** because you spew incorrect and inaccurate
> information.

1. So many errors of fact in his post. Replacement batteries for the
Prius cost about $2500 new.

2. You will not damage the battery by driving the vehicle when you run
out of gas. Worst case is that you will drain the main battery to a
point where it cannot start the car once you add fuel, then the dealer
will recharge the battery and they charge for this (no pun intended).

3. The Prius batteries last a very long time due to Toyota's battery
management system. Toyota intentionally never discharges the battery
very far, nor charges it all the way. This greatly increases the life of
the NiMH cells.