How Long Until All GSM/No TDMA?

> Well, I talked to the cingular rep in Alabama, and they will be rolling
> out GSM there shortly.(In the next month) At that time, I would suspect
> that they will stop selling TDMA phones into that market.

As normal.

> That would mean a slow death of the TDMA and amps in that market becuase
> cingular only sells one Gait phone.

?????
There is two.
The Nokia 6340i
And the Ericsson T62u

> So, I would suspect that within a year or two, tdma will be withdrawn.

It isn't that easy.
You will not have everyone upgrade to GSM in under two years.
Heck.... there is still people running around with analog bag phones
that have been in service for 20+ years.

There will be a large TDMA population for years to come.
They will keep enough channels to do handle the load.
If they dropped TDMA coverage,
the AMPS channels would be overwhelmed.

They will either have to increase the amps channel capacity to handle
the dislodged TDMA user population, or keep the required amount
of TDMA channels to handle the usage.

I would say that when TDMA usage gets so low that the AMPS channels
can handle the extra usage, they will terminate the TDMA channels and
shuffle all the stragglers over to the analog channels.
Or have the base station that is capable of using the channel for TDMA
or amps depending on the cell phone that is calling.
The latter will be more likely.

---

› See More: How Long Until All GSM/No TDMA?

The very first Paragraph in my Cingular contract:

"NETWORK REPLACEMENT NOTICE- Cingular Wireless is replacing its existing
wireless technology with the Global System for Mobil Communications (GSM).
We may upgrade the system in your area sometime in the next 12 to 24 months.
When we do, it may be necessary to replace your existing phone. We will be
presenting you with various options as the time to convert approaches.
(applicable within certain areas in FL, LA, MS, AL and GA)

CUSTOMER INITIALS"


none of that means anything to me- I have a GSM plan and phone anyway.

"> We may upgrade the system in your area sometime in the next 12 to 24
months.
> When we do, it may be necessary to replace your existing phone. We will
be
> presenting you with various options as the time to convert approaches.
> (applicable within certain areas in FL, LA, MS, AL and GA)

Ow...... that is what you are talking about.

That is primarily referring to people in areas where they only have PCS
coverage.
In some of those areas, they are dropping TDMA PCS and will only have GSM
left.
They don't have enough PCS bandwidth to run both system properly

But.......
That does not apply to the entire network.
Just a few parts of it.
Not enough to justify the statement that
TDMA will be discontinued completely,
like some are implying.

Is some parts, it will vanish.
But in the majority of the coverage area, it will be around for years.

> Is some parts, it will vanish.
> But in the majority of the coverage area, it will be around for years.
>
Talking to people I know that works for Cingular- and the reason I chose a
GSM package-

Cingular is planning on going total GSM and is in the process of changing
over now.

(applicable within certain areas in FL, LA, MS, AL and GA)

I'm thinking that means the named states are the only ones that require that
statement in the contract. Otherwise, why the Customer Initials?

> Cingular is planning on going total GSM and is in the process of changing
> over now.

Cingular is planning to have GSM across the entire network.
But that doesn't mean they will drop support for all other modes.
They can't even think about that until 2008,
when the amps requirement ends.

> (applicable within certain areas in FL, LA, MS, AL and GA)
>
> I'm thinking that means the named states are the only ones that require
that
> statement in the contract. Otherwise, why the Customer Initials?

If you look at the cingular network map, and where they have 800 Mhz
coverage, and PCS only coverage, you will get the idea.

The major places they only have PCS coverage to cover major population areas
is.
Shreveport Louisiana.
Montgomery Alabama.
Columbus Georgia
Tampa, Sarasota, and ft. Myers Florida.
Hattiesburg, Biloxi, and Gulfport Mississippi.

Most of the other places have both 800 and PCS coverage.
Plenty of room to operate TDMA and GSM.
But those few places are weak spots.

Notice the wording.
"applicable within certain areas in FL, LA, MS, AL and GA"
If it was state laws, then it would be worded.
"Applicable within the states of FL, LA, MS, AL and GA"

Heck, they have had 850 GSM fully deployed in Indiana for a year,
But there has been no talk about dropping TDMA at all.
They don't sell TDMA to contract customers.
Only GSM or GAIT for them.
But...............
They have the TDMA phones in stock for prepaid users.

It is kinda odd.
You can only activate a TDMA phone for prepaid,
and you can only activate a GSM phone for contract/billed usage.
And that seems the way it's going to stay.

Another note, on the prepaid TDMA coverage map,
in the west side of Florida, there is a moderate amount of
TDMA PCS only coverage that has vanished from the map.
(The places where they switched to GSM only.)

>With they said they were not doing until they seen a market for it.
>Which they currently do not.
>

Actually, Cingular has now purchased a test setup from Nokia (week before last)
and have it in their lab. Nokia feels that orders will be coming soon as they
have demonstrated it to the Cingular CEO and others.

AT&T has two systems already installed and they are testing it.

As for a market, people want faster and faster access to the internet, their
e-mail and so on.

They will install it shortly I am sure.

--
John S.
e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net

> Actually, Cingular has now purchased a test setup from Nokia (week before
last)
> and have it in their lab. Nokia feels that orders will be coming soon as
they
> have demonstrated it to the Cingular CEO and others.

That doesn't indicate any thing out of the ordinary.
It just helps them figure out what it takes to implement the system,
and how much it would probably cost to install it.

That is one of the two parts that is used to see if there
is a big enough market to justify installing it.

> AT&T has two systems already installed and they are testing it.

From what I have read, they are still trying to settle on a bandwidth.
They still can't figure out if they want to implement WCDMA
in the full 5Mhz bandwidth.

> As for a market, people want faster and faster access to the internet,
their
> e-mail and so on.

There is always someone that want a bigger, faster connection.
But five people in the continental US is not a large enough
customer base to justify an installation of a nation wide network.

> They will install it shortly I am sure.

They will install it when there is a market for it.
(translation)
They will install it when there is enough users that
will utilize the capabilities it has (above and beyond EDGE)
to make it profitable.

(ie)If 95% of potential customers will be satisfied with EDGE,
and only 5% will demand WCDMA.
That extra 5% will not bring the company enough money to
justify the cost of implementing WCDMA.

They would make more money by letting that 5% walk,
and not wasting money to satisfy them.

The only thing a company could possibly gain
by implementing WCDMA is bragging rights.
But it doesn't make the least bit of economical sense.

And I have seen many people say that it will be about
10 years or more before the market evolves enough for
the majority of users to require anything above EDGE.

(Pete Cresswell) wrote:
> Is the end in sight for TDMA service under Cingular?

well I just thought of quoting the cingular web page

http://www.cingular.com/about/latest_news/04_04_20


in this release it says that

# Cingular's nationwide GSM/GPRS network overlay on track to achieve 100
percent network coverage in next 90 days
# 66 percent of Cingular's minutes now on its GSM/GPRS network


At the end of the first quarter, more than 53 percent of Cingular's
handsets in service were GSM capable, up from 22 percent a year earlier
and 45 percent at the end of 2003. Approximately 66 percent of
Cingular's total minutes are now carried on its GSM network. GSM
provides the truest voice quality in wireless. GSM is the world's most
popular wireless technology, and it provides customers the widest
selection of handsets in the industry with features such as color
screens, built-in cameras and the latest data services.

I looked at alabamas phones, two were GSM(GAIT) and three were TDMA. I
suspect that the TDMA phone will be dropped when the the network is
switched.

Chip

Ralph Blach <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> in this release it says that
>
> # Cingular's nationwide GSM/GPRS network overlay on track to achieve 100
> percent network coverage in next 90 days

Which means GSM will be running on all of Cingular's towers.

> # 66 percent of Cingular's minutes now on its GSM/GPRS network

Which would be impressive until you realize that all of Cingular's
coverage in the Carolina's and west of the Rockies has always been GSM
so probably 25% of their minutes have always been GSM!

> I looked at alabamas phones, two were GSM(GAIT) and three were TDMA. I
> suspect that the TDMA phone will be dropped when the the network is
> switched.

Probably, but since they're signing those TDMA customers to two-year
contracts, that tells us TDMA will stay in service there for at least
two more years, since Cingular wouldn't want to give away TDMA phones
just to have to swap them for GSM in the next 12 months.

As others have said, the fact that Cingular still sells TDMA prepaid
phones, and that there's no good reason to dismantle TDMA in 800MHz
markets (where analog is mandated for four more years) indicated TDMA
will be around awhile- at least long enough to get your money's worth
out of any TDMA contract started today.

Yes, once the gsm is totally launched and they stop signing up 2
year tdma contracts it seems unlikely they would turn off the tdma for 2
years, but that is no guaranty. PrePaid refills have a much shorter
expiration date and they may also stop selling them well before the end
of the two year contract expiration.


Todd Allcock wrote:

> Ralph Blach <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
>>in this release it says that
>>
>># Cingular's nationwide GSM/GPRS network overlay on track to achieve 100
>>percent network coverage in next 90 days
>
>
> Which means GSM will be running on all of Cingular's towers.
>
>
>># 66 percent of Cingular's minutes now on its GSM/GPRS network
>
>
> Which would be impressive until you realize that all of Cingular's
> coverage in the Carolina's and west of the Rockies has always been GSM
> so probably 25% of their minutes have always been GSM!
>
>
>>I looked at alabamas phones, two were GSM(GAIT) and three were TDMA. I
>>suspect that the TDMA phone will be dropped when the the network is
>>switched.
>
>
> Probably, but since they're signing those TDMA customers to two-year
> contracts, that tells us TDMA will stay in service there for at least
> two more years, since Cingular wouldn't want to give away TDMA phones
> just to have to swap them for GSM in the next 12 months.
>
> As others have said, the fact that Cingular still sells TDMA prepaid
> phones, and that there's no good reason to dismantle TDMA in 800MHz
> markets (where analog is mandated for four more years) indicated TDMA
> will be around awhile- at least long enough to get your money's worth
> out of any TDMA contract started today.

Todd Allcock wrote:

> Ralph Blach <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
>>in this release it says that
>>
>># Cingular's nationwide GSM/GPRS network overlay on track to achieve 100
>>percent network coverage in next 90 days
>
>
> Which means GSM will be running on all of Cingular's towers.
>
>
>># 66 percent of Cingular's minutes now on its GSM/GPRS network
>
>
> Which would be impressive until you realize that all of Cingular's
> coverage in the Carolina's and west of the Rockies has always been GSM
> so probably 25% of their minutes have always been GSM!
>
>
>>I looked at alabamas phones, two were GSM(GAIT) and three were TDMA. I
>>suspect that the TDMA phone will be dropped when the the network is
>>switched.
>
>
> Probably, but since they're signing those TDMA customers to two-year
> contracts, that tells us TDMA will stay in service there for at least
> two more years, since Cingular wouldn't want to give away TDMA phones
> just to have to swap them for GSM in the next 12 months.

Why not? What's wrong with supporting TDMA customers with a freebie for
the preference of keeping good customers around? Besides, TDMA phones
are cheap, and by the time that client wants to upgrade with a new
contract, GSM phones will be a lot cheaper than now.

>
> As others have said, the fact that Cingular still sells TDMA prepaid
> phones, and that there's no good reason to dismantle TDMA in 800MHz
> markets (where analog is mandated for four more years) indicated TDMA
> will be around awhile- at least long enough to get your money's worth
> out of any TDMA contract started today.


--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' ICQ = 35253273
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know." -- Richard Wilbur

On Wed, 12 May 2004 21:27:32 -0500, Jer <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Probably, but since they're signing those TDMA customers to two-year
>> contracts, that tells us TDMA will stay in service there for at least
>> two more years, since Cingular wouldn't want to give away TDMA phones
>> just to have to swap them for GSM in the next 12 months.
>
>Why not? What's wrong with supporting TDMA customers with a freebie for
>the preference of keeping good customers around? Besides, TDMA phones
>are cheap, and by the time that client wants to upgrade with a new
>contract, GSM phones will be a lot cheaper than now.

I really don't care too much about the cost. What I DO care about is
being able to get service wherever I am. Not much of a problem right
now with my TDMA phone. BIG problem if I were to switch to a GSM-only
phone. In my mind that is the huge "gotcha" in switching to GSM right
now. And statements from Cingular like "100% coverage in 90 days"
don't tell the whole story. Even if Cingular achieves 100% coverage,
that doesn't mean diddly outside of the Cingular coverage area.....
which is certainly not 100% of the country.

Paul (staying TDMA for now)
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, Michigan

"Paul Goelz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 12 May 2004 21:27:32 -0500, Jer <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Probably, but since they're signing those TDMA customers to two-year
> >> contracts, that tells us TDMA will stay in service there for at least
> >> two more years, since Cingular wouldn't want to give away TDMA phones
> >> just to have to swap them for GSM in the next 12 months.
> >
> >Why not? What's wrong with supporting TDMA customers with a freebie for
> >the preference of keeping good customers around? Besides, TDMA phones
> >are cheap, and by the time that client wants to upgrade with a new
> >contract, GSM phones will be a lot cheaper than now.
>
> I really don't care too much about the cost. What I DO care about is
> being able to get service wherever I am. Not much of a problem right
> now with my TDMA phone. BIG problem if I were to switch to a GSM-only
> phone. In my mind that is the huge "gotcha" in switching to GSM right
> now. And statements from Cingular like "100% coverage in 90 days"
> don't tell the whole story. Even if Cingular achieves 100% coverage,
> that doesn't mean diddly outside of the Cingular coverage area.....
> which is certainly not 100% of the country.
>
> Paul (staying TDMA for now)
> Paul Goelz
> Rochester Hills, Michigan

We have a family plan with 4 phones (TDMA). Our phones haven't been working
for at least 7 months. We took one in to upgrade the phone In February. We
are in New England and they stated that any phone that was an upgraded would
be put on the GSM network. Even after two trade ins the new phone did not
work at all in our house. So we have 3 old phones on TDMA whose service is
so bad they barely work anymore in our house (this after having cellular
with the same company for 6 years) and one that didn't work at all.

The GSM phone now works at our house but barely. It drops service all the
time and does not work in all places in our house. I feel like I have been
gifting Cingular with a lot of money for about a year now. I do not want
to pay them anything extra to upgrade the TDMA phones to GSM. The GSM does
not work as well as the old TDMA phones do. They have ruined our
coverage.

I am angry and there doesn't seem to be a thing I can do about it except pay
them money every month until the contract on the three phones that are TDMA
expires and bite the bullet on the 4th phone.

Turbo
>

"> I really don't care too much about the cost. What I DO care about is
> being able to get service wherever I am. Not much of a problem right
> now with my TDMA phone. BIG problem if I were to switch to a GSM-only
> phone. In my mind that is the huge "gotcha" in switching to GSM right
> now. And statements from Cingular like "100% coverage in 90 days"
> don't tell the whole story. Even if Cingular achieves 100% coverage,
> that doesn't mean diddly outside of the Cingular coverage area.....
> which is certainly not 100% of the country.
>
> Paul (staying TDMA for now)
> Paul Goelz
> Rochester Hills, Michigan

No big issue here. Just use a GAIT phone. The t62u is still being sold in
Detroit area Cingular stores and on its website along with national GAIT
calling plans.
If it's bells, whistles and a color screen you want, you can have those too.
Just get a second GSM-only phone like an SE t637. When you are at home in
lower Michigan put the SIM in the t637 and use that. When you are heading
for parts unknown, put the SIM in the t62u and you will get service most
everywhere -- even in the UP where there is no GSM service now or even
planned. You can use the same car and travel chargers for both phones and a
GAIT SIM will work perfectly with the GSM-only phone.
--- Cary

The GAIT phones can be a mixed blessing. It seems that Cingular (at least
with the Nokia 6340i defeated some of the interoperability featues.) In my
area, analog service is occasionally needed to fill in the holes.
Unfortunately, the preferences seem to be set such that the phone will
attempt to use a marginal GSM connection before it tries anything else.
After Cingular modified the Nokia programming, you cannot over-ride the
automatic selection as you can with the standard Nokia programming.
Currently, GSM, TDMA, and Analog service are necessary to completely cover
my area. (Florida & Georgia). On the other hand, I've had service with
first Bell South, and then it's successor Cingular, for about ten years.
The cost of service for three phones has increased, and the cost per call
has dropped, thanks to several of the plan features. I have the on Cingular
nationwide service instead of the true nationwide service. So far, this has
served me well, since there are very few areas that are covered only by
another carrier.

This is a far cry from 1999, when analog service still was the major
coverage,and each little area had it's own fees to add to a call. Still, I
seldom had problems with an analog connection, and constantly have quality
problems on a daily basis with GSM and TDMA connections.

"Cary" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "> I really don't care too much about the cost. What I DO care about is
> > being able to get service wherever I am. Not much of a problem right
> > now with my TDMA phone. BIG problem if I were to switch to a GSM-only
> > phone. In my mind that is the huge "gotcha" in switching to GSM right
> > now. And statements from Cingular like "100% coverage in 90 days"
> > don't tell the whole story. Even if Cingular achieves 100% coverage,
> > that doesn't mean diddly outside of the Cingular coverage area.....
> > which is certainly not 100% of the country.
> >
> > Paul (staying TDMA for now)
> > Paul Goelz
> > Rochester Hills, Michigan
>
> No big issue here. Just use a GAIT phone. The t62u is still being sold
in
> Detroit area Cingular stores and on its website along with national GAIT
> calling plans.
> If it's bells, whistles and a color screen you want, you can have those
too.
> Just get a second GSM-only phone like an SE t637. When you are at home in
> lower Michigan put the SIM in the t637 and use that. When you are heading
> for parts unknown, put the SIM in the t62u and you will get service most
> everywhere -- even in the UP where there is no GSM service now or even
> planned. You can use the same car and travel chargers for both phones and
a
> GAIT SIM will work perfectly with the GSM-only phone.
> --- Cary
>
>
>