Results 1 to 15 of 37
- 07-31-2004, 11:35 AM #1Steven J SobolGuest
Calvin White <[email protected]> wrote:
> My bill with Cingular was $190.00. It included two activation fees plus
> service for one month. The bill was due on the 16th, on the 20th I got a
> reminder notice (text message) I called and made a partial payment of
> $120.00, it was explained to me that this would be alright as long as I paid
> the remaining balance on the 1st on the upcoming month.
Which probably shouldn't have been said to you, because typically cellular
companies don't do this. I had to call and talk to Financial Services/
Accounts Receivable and make special arrangements a couple times when I could
not pay my Verizon bill in full. Customer Service generally does NOT have
the authority to make arrangements like that, regardless of which carrier
you use.
> On the 31st the phone was deactivated, no phone call to warn, no text
> message. My wife was broken down on the side of the road and tried to use
> her phone only to find it would not work. She managed to get to a pay phone
> and later that day I contacted Cingular. The rep stated that the account was
> disconnected because of failure to make payment in full and that there would
> be a $39 reactivation fee. I reminded them of our agreement and the best
> they could offer up was "I'm sorry that rep did not have the power to make
> that arrangement with you". I then ask if I could have the activation fee
> wavered just once. The answer "No". I asked to speak to an account manager.
> This took about 20 minutes, once on the line this person was one of the most
> soulless human beings I have encountered, the conversation went something
> like this:
>
> Me- "There's been some misunderstanding about my account, I had made an
> arrangement to pay off the remaining balance in full on the 1st".
>
> Collection Manager: "We do not make those kind of arrangements sir".
>
> Me- "Well, seeing as there was a misunderstanding, would it be possible to
> wave the $39 activation fee"
>
> Collection Manager. "I'm unable to do that"
>
> Me- "Come-on I'm only 16 days late on this account, don't you have kind of
> grace period"
>
> Collection Manager. "No"
>
> Me- "Can I speak with your supervisor?"
> Collection Manager. "My supervisor is not in the office right now"
>
> Me- "Well I..."
>
> Collection Manager. "My supervisor would tell you the same thing I am
> telling you now"
>
> Me- "Well can I get their name anyway?"
>
> Collection Manager. "He will have to call you back"
>
> Me- "Can I.."
>
> Collection Manager. "Do you intend to pay your bill today sir?"
Yeah. Verizon's better than most in this regard - at least the collections
people aren't complete drones.
> This is what to expect to get from Cingular should you have problems paying
> a bill. They have a zero tolerance for late payments. While I understand
> that is their right and I don't feel consumers should abuse credit or
> service contracts I think its best to have a service provider with a little
> understanding. If you agree, Cingular most certainly does not "fit you
> best".
If you talked to CS, that's your problem. I know nothing about how Cingular
works, but in the future, perhaps people who can't pay the entire bill all
at once should talk to someone other than CS - I'd suggest asking for
Financial Services and explaining the problem. (Note that the appropriate
Cingular department may be named something else; "Financial Services" is
just a suggestion.)
Don't expect Customer Service reps to be allowed to make payment arrangements
on your account.
--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
› See More: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
- 07-31-2004, 06:13 PM #2QuickGuest
Re: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
Steven J Sobol wrote:
>
> If you talked to CS, that's your problem. I know nothing about how
> Cingular works, but in the future, perhaps people who can't pay the
> entire bill all at once should talk to someone other than CS - I'd
> suggest asking for Financial Services and explaining the problem.
> (Note that the appropriate Cingular department may be named something
> else; "Financial Services" is just a suggestion.)
>
> Don't expect Customer Service reps to be allowed to make payment
> arrangements on your account.
I would at least expect CS to say something like "We are not authorized
to make adjustments of that kind. Would you like me to connect you to
Financial Services?"...
Customer Service should be a single point of initial contact for customers.
-Quick
- 07-31-2004, 06:37 PM #3John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <[email protected]> on Sat, 31 Jul 2004 12:35:29 -0500, Steven
J Sobol <[email protected]> wrote:
>Calvin White <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> My bill with Cingular was $190.00. It included two activation fees plus
>> service for one month. The bill was due on the 16th, on the 20th I got a
>> reminder notice (text message) I called and made a partial payment of
>> $120.00, it was explained to me that this would be alright as long as I paid
>> the remaining balance on the 1st on the upcoming month.
>
>Which probably shouldn't have been said to you, because typically cellular
>companies don't do this. I had to call and talk to Financial Services/
>Accounts Receivable and make special arrangements a couple times when I could
>not pay my Verizon bill in full. Customer Service generally does NOT have
>the authority to make arrangements like that, regardless of which carrier
>you use.
Whether CS has "the authority to make arrangements like that" or not is
irrelevant -- if CS did indeed say that (and noted it in the CS computer log),
then the company is *bound* by that representation. I'd be willing to bet
that the OP could get satisfaction with a bit of persistence.
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
- 07-31-2004, 06:38 PM #4John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <1091318982.495217@sj-nntpcache-5> on Sat, 31 Jul 2004 17:13:16 -0700,
"Quick" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Steven J Sobol wrote:
>>
>> If you talked to CS, that's your problem. I know nothing about how
>> Cingular works, but in the future, perhaps people who can't pay the
>> entire bill all at once should talk to someone other than CS - I'd
>> suggest asking for Financial Services and explaining the problem.
>> (Note that the appropriate Cingular department may be named something
>> else; "Financial Services" is just a suggestion.)
>>
>> Don't expect Customer Service reps to be allowed to make payment
>> arrangements on your account.
>
>I would at least expect CS to say something like "We are not authorized
>to make adjustments of that kind. Would you like me to connect you to
>Financial Services?"...
>
>Customer Service should be a single point of initial contact for customers.
Correct.
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
- 07-31-2004, 07:22 PM #5Steven J SobolGuest
Re: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
In alt.cellular.verizon Quick <[email protected]> wrote:
> I would at least expect CS to say something like "We are not authorized
> to make adjustments of that kind. Would you like me to connect you to
> Financial Services?"...
Well, yes, I too would expect that.
> Customer Service should be a single point of initial contact for customers.
Mmm, I'd modify that slighty to say the first point, not a single point. More
often than not they should be the only people you need to talk to, but in
some cases they WILL need to transfer you elsewhere.
--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
- 07-31-2004, 07:22 PM #6Steven J SobolGuest
Re: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
In alt.cellular.verizon John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
> Whether CS has "the authority to make arrangements like that" or not is
> irrelevant -- if CS did indeed say that (and noted it in the CS computer log),
> then the company is *bound* by that representation. I'd be willing to bet
> that the OP could get satisfaction with a bit of persistence.
Again, we're talking about Cingular here. My experience is with Verizon and
Sprint. You may very well be right.
--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
- 08-01-2004, 03:53 AM #7The Ghost of General LeeGuest
Re: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 00:37:50 GMT, John Navas
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Whether CS has "the authority to make arrangements like that" or not is
>irrelevant -- if CS did indeed say that (and noted it in the CS computer log),
>then the company is *bound* by that representation.
Bound? Even if it was logged, the contract trumps all oral
(mis)representations. Please take that argument before an arbitrator
or judge sometime and let us know how long they laughed for.
>I'd be willing to bet
>that the OP could get satisfaction with a bit of persistence.
And I'd be willing to be he'd get even more satisfaction if he handled
his finances better. He knew he had a large bill coming in (with
activation fees, so this wasn't some "accidentally high" bill), he
should have known it was coming and made preparations for payment. If
he didn't have the money, he shouldn't have signed the contract.
- 08-01-2004, 06:01 AM #8desiGuest
Re: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
If this was the first bill (and new customer) the fact that he/she couldn't
pay the first invoice would be a red flag with any company.
"The Ghost of General Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 00:37:50 GMT, John Navas
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Whether CS has "the authority to make arrangements like that" or not is
> >irrelevant -- if CS did indeed say that (and noted it in the CS computer
log),
> >then the company is *bound* by that representation.
>
> >
> And I'd be willing to be he'd get even more satisfaction if he handled
> his finances better. He knew he had a large bill coming in (with
> activation fees, so this wasn't some "accidentally high" bill), he
> should have known it was coming and made preparations for payment. If
> he didn't have the money, he shouldn't have signed the contract.
>
- 08-01-2004, 08:41 AM #9Calvin WhiteGuest
Re: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
"The Ghost of General Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> And I'd be willing to be he'd get even more satisfaction if he handled
> his finances better. He knew he had a large bill coming in (with
> activation fees, so this wasn't some "accidentally high" bill), he
> should have known it was coming and made preparations for payment. If
> he didn't have the money, he shouldn't have signed the contract.
>
That's an easy statement to make now isn't it. Unfortunately not everyone
lives with a cushion in the bank. Unfortunate events happen sometimes. When
I signed the contract I had full intention of paying the bill in full, when
that wasn't going to be possible I made payment arrangements Cingular (had
made payment arrangements.. they voided those arrangement without warning or
notification) I believe they did this because. A.) According to the terms of
the contract Cingular knew I could do nothing about this behavior. B.) They
wanted to collect an additional $40 from me (the re-activation fee).
This model isn't new. It's been done on a smaler scale for many years now.
Look at movie rental shops. They make considerable profits from late fees on
movie returns. Those fees are in fact part of their strategy, why would a
phone company be any different? I believe when you sign a contract you are
bond by that contract, but I also feel companies should be ethical and
understanding.
Based on my experience I believe Cingular to be an unethical company that
likes to put punishment (and bank) on customers mistakes (and in my case
outright lie to customers). The proof of this is in their actions. How much
money are they losing by reactivating an account? This entire process is
done electronically. It takes a few minutes of a customer service reps time
to complete this process. This customer service time is provided to all
Cingular customers anyway (yes, part of our monthly bill pays their wages).
I wouldn't expect Cingular to waver reactivation cost again and again, but
it seems they could make an exception, especially in the light of my
circumstances.
- 08-01-2004, 08:52 AM #10John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <[email protected]> on Sun, 01 Aug 2004 05:53:12
-0400, The Ghost of General Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 00:37:50 GMT, John Navas
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Whether CS has "the authority to make arrangements like that" or not is
>>irrelevant -- if CS did indeed say that (and noted it in the CS computer log),
>>then the company is *bound* by that representation.
>
>Bound? Even if it was logged, the contract trumps all oral
>(mis)representations.
The contract trumps only if it disclaims such oral representations (which
would be pretty silly and probably unenforceable; e.g., "Subscriber may not
reply on oral representations, even by responsible employees of the
Company.").
>Please take that argument before an arbitrator
>or judge sometime and let us know how long they laughed for.
I think (based on experience) there's a very good chance that such an oral
representation would be taken quite seriously in appropriate forums.
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
- 08-01-2004, 08:56 AM #11John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <[email protected]> on Sun, 01 Aug 2004 05:53:12
-0400, The Ghost of General Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 00:37:50 GMT, John Navas
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>I'd be willing to bet
>>that the OP could get satisfaction with a bit of persistence.
>
>And I'd be willing to be he'd get even more satisfaction if he handled
>his finances better. He knew he had a large bill coming in (with
>activation fees, so this wasn't some "accidentally high" bill), he
>should have known it was coming and made preparations for payment. If
>he didn't have the money, he shouldn't have signed the contract.
You're making assumptions that I find pretty offensive. The unexpected can
and does happen. It's quite possible that the OP had expenses and/or lost
income that couldn't have been reasonably anticipated.
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
- 08-01-2004, 09:10 AM #12John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <[email protected]> on Sun, 01 Aug 2004 14:41:40 GMT,
"Calvin White" <[email protected]> wrote:
>... When
>I signed the contract I had full intention of paying the bill in full, when
>that wasn't going to be possible I made payment arrangements Cingular (had
>made payment arrangements.. they voided those arrangement without warning or
>notification) I believe they did this because. A.) According to the terms of
>the contract Cingular knew I could do nothing about this behavior.
I believe you could do something, as I've explained previously.
>B.) They
>wanted to collect an additional $40 from me (the re-activation fee).
Or C) Cingular expects contracts to be honored, and wasn't sufficiently
persuaded to do otherwise.
>This model isn't new. It's been done on a smaler scale for many years now.
>Look at movie rental shops. They make considerable profits from late fees on
>movie returns. Those fees are in fact part of their strategy,
In this area at least, those late fees simply constitute additional rental and
compensation for lost use, and are thus quite appropriate.
>why would a
>phone company be any different? I believe when you sign a contract you are
>bond by that contract, but I also feel companies should be ethical and
>understanding.
Ethical, yes, but "understanding" only when it's in the best interests of the
company. OTOH, I feel subscribers should be prudent, realistic, and willing
to accept responsibility for their own conduct.
>Based on my experience I believe Cingular to be an unethical company that
>likes to put punishment (and bank) on customers mistakes (and in my case
>outright lie to customers). The proof of this is in their actions.
I see no such "proof," just inferences.
>How much
>money are they losing by reactivating an account? This entire process is
>done electronically. It takes a few minutes of a customer service reps time
>to complete this process.
There is a real cost of reactivation to the company, but think of it much like
a returned check charge, because there's also the real cost of dealing with a
delinquent account.
>This customer service time is provided to all
>Cingular customers anyway (yes, part of our monthly bill pays their wages).
Those costs aren't incurred when bills are paid on time.
>I wouldn't expect Cingular to waver reactivation cost again and again,
OTOH, this was the first bill, so there wasn't an established history with the
company, and thus the company might well fear that it would happen again and
again.
>but
>it seems they could make an exception, especially in the light of my
>circumstances.
As I've noted previously, I think Cingular could be persuaded to honor such a
representation (if such a representation was actually made).
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
- 08-01-2004, 01:25 PM #13The Ghost of General LeeGuest
Re: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 14:41:40 GMT, "Calvin White" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"The Ghost of General Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> And I'd be willing to be he'd get even more satisfaction if he handled
>> his finances better. He knew he had a large bill coming in (with
>> activation fees, so this wasn't some "accidentally high" bill), he
>> should have known it was coming and made preparations for payment. If
>> he didn't have the money, he shouldn't have signed the contract.
>>
>
>That's an easy statement to make now isn't it. Unfortunately not everyone
>lives with a cushion in the bank. Unfortunate events happen sometimes. When
>I signed the contract I had full intention of paying the bill in full,
Wait right there. You had "full intention"? I didn't see anything
about actually having the money. If finances in your life are so
tight, then you should have paid something on your account the day you
signed up, so that the next bill would be more within your ability to
pay. If I walk out of a customer's office after doing work for them,
send them a bill, then I get some lame-ass excuse that they had
intended to pay blah, blah, blah, then I'll see them in magistrate's
court. I've been doing business like this for 26 years, and I've
fortunately never had an account go that far.
I've never had what most would consider a "cushion in the bank", but
my bills get paid every month, and I know not to take on more than I
can afford.
>when
>that wasn't going to be possible I made payment arrangements Cingular (had
>made payment arrangements.. they voided those arrangement without warning or
>notification) I believe they did this because. A.) According to the terms of
>the contract Cingular knew I could do nothing about this behavior. B.) They
>wanted to collect an additional $40 from me (the re-activation fee).
Because you handled the entire matter incorrectly. As others have
told you, you talked to the wrong person. Of course, you could have
avoided the situation entirely by not signing up for something you
obviously couldn't afford. Cellular phones are still (despite some
arguments that I'm sure this statement will generate) luxury items,
not necessities of life. It sounds like you need to get your
priorities in order.
>
>This model isn't new. It's been done on a smaler scale for many years now.
>Look at movie rental shops. They make considerable profits from late fees on
>movie returns. Those fees are in fact part of their strategy, why would a
>phone company be any different? I believe when you sign a contract you are
>bond by that contract, but I also feel companies should be ethical and
>understanding.
Hmm, having rented video tapes and DVDs for years, I cannot seem to
recall ever paying a late fee. Maybe it's because I've always
returned them on-time. I think your true personality is coming out.
You sound like the type (and I know of a few personally) who just get
mad at anything that holds them financially responsible for their own
actions.
>Based on my experience I believe Cingular to be an unethical company that
>likes to put punishment (and bank) on customers mistakes (and in my case
>outright lie to customers). The proof of this is in their actions. How much
>money are they losing by reactivating an account? This entire process is
>done electronically. It takes a few minutes of a customer service reps time
>to complete this process. This customer service time is provided to all
>Cingular customers anyway (yes, part of our monthly bill pays their wages).
>I wouldn't expect Cingular to waver reactivation cost again and again, but
>it seems they could make an exception, especially in the light of my
>circumstances.
Based on your postings, I believe you are a whiney, unresponsible
little troll. Account Reactivation fees are not just there to recoup
costs. They are there in part as an additional deterrent to paying
your bills late.
So pay your bills and shut the hell up about it.
- 08-01-2004, 01:31 PM #14The Ghost of General LeeGuest
Re: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 14:52:54 GMT, John Navas
<[email protected]> wrote:
>The contract trumps only if it disclaims such oral representations (which
>would be pretty silly and probably unenforceable; e.g., "Subscriber may not
>reply on oral representations, even by responsible employees of the
>Company.").
Ever see a cellular contract lately that didn't have that in it?
>>Please take that argument before an arbitrator
>>or judge sometime and let us know how long they laughed for.
>
>I think (based on experience) there's a very good chance that such an oral
>representation would be taken quite seriously in appropriate forums.
Based on the word of a CSR who doesn't have the authority to issue
such offers? I don't think so, unless you mean usenet to be that
"appropriate forum".
The breach of contract had already occurred with the late payment.
Cingular could have been really nasty and hit him with the ETF, but
decided to give him another chnace to redeem himself. They owed him
nothing more.
- 08-01-2004, 01:35 PM #15Calvin WhiteGuest
Re: Cingular- Make a partial payment, get your phone disconnected!
"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> >How much
> >money are they losing by reactivating an account? This entire process is
> >done electronically. It takes a few minutes of a customer service reps
time
> >to complete this process.
>
> There is a real cost of reactivation to the company, but think of it much
like
> a returned check charge, because there's also the real cost of dealing
with a
> delinquent account.
>
I want to thank you for your comments, they have been helpful. This one
point though is very important. The reactivation fee is really what the
argument is over and I still don't see "real cost" involved. The return
check analogy is flawed. Let's examine that scenario: If a check is written
for an amount of funds unavailable, multiple parties are unconvinced. First
you have the receiving (third-party) that provided goods or services in good
faith that monies were available to back the check. When the check "bounces"
this delays payment to the third-party. There's also a direct correlations
here between irresponsibility of the check writer a returned check. There
are few circumstances out this persons control, many times are hard and they
don't have funds available. It's still irresponsible of them to write a
check for an amount they know is not available in their account. It is also
their responsibility to know how much is available in their account at any
given time.
If you contrast his with Reactivation/Activation of a cell phone there is
very little in common. For starters there generally isn't a third-party
involved in the reactivation. The service rep will key in a request for
reactivation and from there the automated system picks up the request and
sends a signal to the phone to "activate" it. For a detailed explanation of
this process (with all the technical garbage) see:
Wireless Internet Applications & Architecture
by Mark Beaulieu
How do I know this? Because I work with wireless application development and
have been involved with cell phone technology more than I wish to discuss.
The point is, and this is a very pivotal point to this whole discussion;
when we talk about activation/reactivation fees, we're talking about a
service that has traditionally been billed to cover the clerical cost of
data entry (all of which requires 5-10 minutes of filling out a few
electronic forms). When a company such as Cingular would try to lead its
customers to believe otherwise, that's where the question of ethics comes
into play. The cost to reactivate an account is next ot nothing because
there aren't any forms to fill out, perhaps there is a comments section for
a sentence or two, but the majority of the information is already in the
system.
Make no mistake, reactivation fees are a form of penality/punishment.
Namely, they are a way for Cingular to collect big on their customers
mistakes (and in my case misfortune). Cingular should be shamed for what
they are doing, there may be a story here for anyone who cares to follow it
(assuming I'm not an isolated case).
is almost 100% automated. The only portion that isn't automated takes about
five minutes and maybe a fifth grade education to perform. I know this first
hand from
> Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
> John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
Similar Threads
- RingTones
- alt.cellular.attws
- Samsung
- alt.cellular.verizon
Lifeline cell phone service
in Chit Chat