One complaint about Cingular...

Witness the current trend of offshoring. If American CEOs looked at the
facts alone, and applied logic, they would see that their service level
suffers with Indian offshoring, and their costs related to outsourcing
continue to climb, well beyond what the revenue-hungry consultants tell
them. Turns out, CEOs think they're missing out on the next big trend, so
out go the American workers, in come the Indian outsourcing firms. So I
agree with you on this point, emotional decisions do not lead to the most
effective results. To that end, Cingular is taking a rather short-term
approach to improving their bottom line by reducing their customer service
capacity. Typical of American business to narrowly focus on this quarter or
this fiscal year, not the long term investment and return. There will be a
shift in management again, and some other shmuck will decide to shift focus
back to customer service. Round and round we go, watching each new manager
try to cut their own path and do things different, not because it's better,
but because it's different and you need to show that you're doing something.
American executives at their finest.

"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:5Hp%[email protected]...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <4Vo%c.107867$%[email protected]> on Tue, 7 Sep 2004
> 16:32:23
> -0400, "Steve Larson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>If we were all John Navas, then we would all love Cingular
>
> I don't "love" any supplier. I simply go with whatever works best for me.
>
>>and have great
>>experiences with them.
>
> I tend to have good experiences because I work hard to choose carefully,
> and
> because I do my best to work with suppliers rather than fight with them.
> I do nonetheless sometimes make mistakes, like my recent switch to ATTWS,
> which ended with me coming back to Cingular before the trial month was up.
>
>>Oh well, too bad for us.
>
> If you let yourself be ruled by emotion rather than reason, then you will
> indeed probably be less fortunate.
>
> --
> Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
> John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

---

› See More: One complaint about Cingular...

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <UXp%c.108341$%[email protected]> on Tue, 7 Sep 2004 17:43:39
-0400, "Steve Larson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Witness the current trend of offshoring.

It's greatly exaggerated, it you'll take the time to check the actual data.

>If American CEOs looked at the
>facts alone, and applied logic, they would see that their service level
>suffers with Indian offshoring, and their costs related to outsourcing
>continue to climb, well beyond what the revenue-hungry consultants tell
>them.

Which is part of why the numbers are so modest, and why some companies have
even been insourcing back to the USA.

>Turns out, CEOs think they're missing out on the next big trend, so
>out go the American workers, in come the Indian outsourcing firms.

Sometimes.

>So I
>agree with you on this point, emotional decisions do not lead to the most
>effective results. To that end, Cingular is taking a rather short-term
>approach to improving their bottom line by reducing their customer service
>capacity. [SNIP]

I think that remains to be seen. I'm not seeing a significant degradation in
Cingular Customer Service, thus far at least.

>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:5Hp%[email protected]...
>>
>> In <4Vo%c.107867$%[email protected]> on Tue, 7 Sep 2004
>> 16:32:23
>> -0400, "Steve Larson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>If we were all John Navas, then we would all love Cingular
>>
>> I don't "love" any supplier. I simply go with whatever works best for me.
>>
>>>and have great
>>>experiences with them.
>>
>> I tend to have good experiences because I work hard to choose carefully,
>> and
>> because I do my best to work with suppliers rather than fight with them.
>> I do nonetheless sometimes make mistakes, like my recent switch to ATTWS,
>> which ended with me coming back to Cingular before the trial month was up.
>>
>>>Oh well, too bad for us.
>>
>> If you let yourself be ruled by emotion rather than reason, then you will
>> indeed probably be less fortunate.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:53:48 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>And the changing of carriers was supposed to increase each carrier's
>competitiveness; more competition generally results in lower prices.

But the bottom line is that the more things change the more they stay
the same.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

It's not greatly exaggerated, there are specific sectors of the high-tech
software business that are being eaten up, not just customer service and
call centers. People don't realize that unless they work in a sector that's
been victimized by the offshoring trend. There is no report or statistic
that protrays individual sectors of the software business. Analysts just
look at anything remotely related to computers, which could mean customer
service, order management, software development, etc, and they roll it all
up into outsourcing. That serves to dilute the reporting of actual sectors
that are being heavily impacted. If you need a specific example, look at
anything related to Oracle packaged and custom applications, then look at
what Larry Ellison and Accenture are doing. They're definitely the bad guys
in the software business.

You may not have experienced the degradation in customer service yet, their
latest big change was only in August this year. Give it time, you may see a
different look from Cingular at a time you need them.


"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:_vq%[email protected]...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <UXp%c.108341$%[email protected]> on Tue, 7 Sep 2004
> 17:43:39
> -0400, "Steve Larson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Witness the current trend of offshoring.
>
> It's greatly exaggerated, it you'll take the time to check the actual
> data.
>
>>If American CEOs looked at the
>>facts alone, and applied logic, they would see that their service level
>>suffers with Indian offshoring, and their costs related to outsourcing
>>continue to climb, well beyond what the revenue-hungry consultants tell
>>them.
>
> Which is part of why the numbers are so modest, and why some companies
> have
> even been insourcing back to the USA.
>
>>Turns out, CEOs think they're missing out on the next big trend, so
>>out go the American workers, in come the Indian outsourcing firms.
>
> Sometimes.
>
>>So I
>>agree with you on this point, emotional decisions do not lead to the most
>>effective results. To that end, Cingular is taking a rather short-term
>>approach to improving their bottom line by reducing their customer service
>>capacity. [SNIP]
>
> I think that remains to be seen. I'm not seeing a significant degradation
> in
> Cingular Customer Service, thus far at least.
>
>>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:5Hp%[email protected]...
>>>
>>> In <4Vo%c.107867$%[email protected]> on Tue, 7 Sep 2004
>>> 16:32:23
>>> -0400, "Steve Larson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>If we were all John Navas, then we would all love Cingular
>>>
>>> I don't "love" any supplier. I simply go with whatever works best for
>>> me.
>>>
>>>>and have great
>>>>experiences with them.
>>>
>>> I tend to have good experiences because I work hard to choose carefully,
>>> and
>>> because I do my best to work with suppliers rather than fight with them.
>>> I do nonetheless sometimes make mistakes, like my recent switch to
>>> ATTWS,
>>> which ended with me coming back to Cingular before the trial month was
>>> up.
>>>
>>>>Oh well, too bad for us.
>>>
>>> If you let yourself be ruled by emotion rather than reason, then you
>>> will
>>> indeed probably be less fortunate.
>
> --
> Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
> John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <FRr%c.109285$%[email protected]> on Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:53:32
-0400, "Steve Larson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>It's not greatly exaggerated, there are specific sectors of the high-tech
>software business that are being eaten up, not just customer service and
>call centers.

Any actual data to back that up, or just gut feel?

>People don't realize that unless they work in a sector that's
>been victimized by the offshoring trend.

In other words, gut feel.

>There is no report or statistic
>that protrays individual sectors of the software business.

True, but you've yet to show that it would be terribly meaningful.

>Analysts just
>look at anything remotely related to computers, which could mean customer
>service, order management, software development, etc, and they roll it all
>up into outsourcing. That serves to dilute the reporting of actual sectors
>that are being heavily impacted.

Which would be?

>If you need a specific example, look at
>anything related to Oracle packaged and custom applications, then look at
>what Larry Ellison and Accenture are doing.

Actual data, or gut feel?

>They're definitely the bad guys
>in the software business.

In what way?

>You may not have experienced the degradation in customer service yet, their
>latest big change was only in August this year. Give it time, you may see a
>different look from Cingular at a time you need them.

Perhaps, but I tend to doubt it, given the competitive nature of the
marketplace. In my experience, it's gotten a bit better over the past year.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

>>In other words, gut feel
No, it's experience in the industry. You, of all people, especially as a
technical consultant, should realize the value of industry experience in
providing solutions and recommendations to people.

I guess there's a bigger issue that I haven't really noticed until now. You
seem angry or frustrated about something, as your replies are negative and
antagonistic. Is there something that's causing defensiveness?


"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:qcs%[email protected]...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <FRr%c.109285$%[email protected]> on Tue, 7 Sep 2004
> 19:53:32
> -0400, "Steve Larson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>It's not greatly exaggerated, there are specific sectors of the high-tech
>>software business that are being eaten up, not just customer service and
>>call centers.
>
> Any actual data to back that up, or just gut feel?
>
>>People don't realize that unless they work in a sector that's
>>been victimized by the offshoring trend.
>
> In other words, gut feel.
>
>>There is no report or statistic
>>that protrays individual sectors of the software business.
>
> True, but you've yet to show that it would be terribly meaningful.
>
>>Analysts just
>>look at anything remotely related to computers, which could mean customer
>>service, order management, software development, etc, and they roll it all
>>up into outsourcing. That serves to dilute the reporting of actual
>>sectors
>>that are being heavily impacted.
>
> Which would be?
>
>>If you need a specific example, look at
>>anything related to Oracle packaged and custom applications, then look at
>>what Larry Ellison and Accenture are doing.
>
> Actual data, or gut feel?
>
>>They're definitely the bad guys
>>in the software business.
>
> In what way?
>
>>You may not have experienced the degradation in customer service yet,
>>their
>>latest big change was only in August this year. Give it time, you may see
>>a
>>different look from Cingular at a time you need them.
>
> Perhaps, but I tend to doubt it, given the competitive nature of the
> marketplace. In my experience, it's gotten a bit better over the past
> year.
>
> --
> Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
> John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <YBs%c.109586$%[email protected]> on Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:45:05
-0400, "Steve Larson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>>>In other words, gut feel

>No, it's experience in the industry. You, of all people, especially as a
>technical consultant, should realize the value of industry experience in
>providing solutions and recommendations to people.

While experience is both important and useful, because I know the dangers of
anecdotal "evidence," I personally don't base professional assessments just on
my own experience.

>I guess there's a bigger issue that I haven't really noticed until now. You
>seem angry or frustrated about something, as your replies are negative and
>antagonistic. Is there something that's causing defensiveness?

With all due respect, I think you're projecting.


>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:qcs%[email protected]...
>> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>>
>> In <FRr%c.109285$%[email protected]> on Tue, 7 Sep 2004
>> 19:53:32
>> -0400, "Steve Larson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>It's not greatly exaggerated, there are specific sectors of the high-tech
>>>software business that are being eaten up, not just customer service and
>>>call centers.
>>
>> Any actual data to back that up, or just gut feel?
>>
>>>People don't realize that unless they work in a sector that's
>>>been victimized by the offshoring trend.
>>
>> In other words, gut feel.
>>
>>>There is no report or statistic
>>>that protrays individual sectors of the software business.
>>
>> True, but you've yet to show that it would be terribly meaningful.
>>
>>>Analysts just
>>>look at anything remotely related to computers, which could mean customer
>>>service, order management, software development, etc, and they roll it all
>>>up into outsourcing. That serves to dilute the reporting of actual
>>>sectors
>>>that are being heavily impacted.
>>
>> Which would be?
>>
>>>If you need a specific example, look at
>>>anything related to Oracle packaged and custom applications, then look at
>>>what Larry Ellison and Accenture are doing.
>>
>> Actual data, or gut feel?
>>
>>>They're definitely the bad guys
>>>in the software business.
>>
>> In what way?
>>
>>>You may not have experienced the degradation in customer service yet,
>>>their
>>>latest big change was only in August this year. Give it time, you may see
>>>a
>>>different look from Cingular at a time you need them.
>>
>> Perhaps, but I tend to doubt it, given the competitive nature of the
>> marketplace. In my experience, it's gotten a bit better over the past
>> year.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

You're a funny guy...surprisingly anal for a Californian, but entertaining
nonetheless.


"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Bav%[email protected]...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <YBs%c.109586$%[email protected]> on Tue, 7 Sep 2004
> 20:45:05
> -0400, "Steve Larson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>>In other words, gut feel
>
>>No, it's experience in the industry. You, of all people, especially as a
>>technical consultant, should realize the value of industry experience in
>>providing solutions and recommendations to people.
>
> While experience is both important and useful, because I know the dangers
> of
> anecdotal "evidence," I personally don't base professional assessments
> just on
> my own experience.
>
>>I guess there's a bigger issue that I haven't really noticed until now.
>>You
>>seem angry or frustrated about something, as your replies are negative
>>and
>>antagonistic. Is there something that's causing defensiveness?
>
> With all due respect, I think you're projecting.
>
>
>>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:qcs%[email protected]...
>>> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>>>
>>> In <FRr%c.109285$%[email protected]> on Tue, 7 Sep 2004
>>> 19:53:32
>>> -0400, "Steve Larson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>It's not greatly exaggerated, there are specific sectors of the
>>>>high-tech
>>>>software business that are being eaten up, not just customer service and
>>>>call centers.
>>>
>>> Any actual data to back that up, or just gut feel?
>>>
>>>>People don't realize that unless they work in a sector that's
>>>>been victimized by the offshoring trend.
>>>
>>> In other words, gut feel.
>>>
>>>>There is no report or statistic
>>>>that protrays individual sectors of the software business.
>>>
>>> True, but you've yet to show that it would be terribly meaningful.
>>>
>>>>Analysts just
>>>>look at anything remotely related to computers, which could mean
>>>>customer
>>>>service, order management, software development, etc, and they roll it
>>>>all
>>>>up into outsourcing. That serves to dilute the reporting of actual
>>>>sectors
>>>>that are being heavily impacted.
>>>
>>> Which would be?
>>>
>>>>If you need a specific example, look at
>>>>anything related to Oracle packaged and custom applications, then look
>>>>at
>>>>what Larry Ellison and Accenture are doing.
>>>
>>> Actual data, or gut feel?
>>>
>>>>They're definitely the bad guys
>>>>in the software business.
>>>
>>> In what way?
>>>
>>>>You may not have experienced the degradation in customer service yet,
>>>>their
>>>>latest big change was only in August this year. Give it time, you may
>>>>see
>>>>a
>>>>different look from Cingular at a time you need them.
>>>
>>> Perhaps, but I tend to doubt it, given the competitive nature of the
>>> marketplace. In my experience, it's gotten a bit better over the past
>>> year.
>
> --
> Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
> John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <QjL%c.113229$%[email protected]> on Wed, 8 Sep 2004
18:02:51 -0400, "Steve Larson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>You're a funny guy...surprisingly anal for a Californian, but entertaining
>nonetheless.

I wish I could say the same, but I think you're rude. Oh well.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>