Network Integration of Cingular/ATTWS

Does anyone have any "real" information on how quickly Cingular and AT&T
are going to merge their calling networks/towers. I understand the
billing and backend office systems could take up to a year or so.
However, I am curious as to when the current networks will be combined
so that all current and new customers have new towers to operate from in
their home territory?

I know Cingular is busting their hump to get new plans, new branding,
new website, import of numbers, etc.. by the middle of November. So
please don't tell me something I already know from the remainder of the
posts.

However, do they plan to have most or all of the towers integrated by
the mid-November timeline? This would certainly help with capacity
issues on combining current customers, new customers, and for the
holiday season. I would think mid-Nov integration would be a lofty goal
for them, if it is so. However, I guess it would also be reasonbly
possible considering in most areas I would think it is nothing more than
an electronic reassigning of the Tower Identification.

Sorry for the long winded post...

Jeremy Thornton

---

› See More: Network Integration of Cingular/ATTWS

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:55:19
-0400, Jeremy Thornton <[email protected]> wrote:

>Does anyone have any "real" information on how quickly Cingular and AT&T
>are going to merge their calling networks/towers. I understand the
>billing and backend office systems could take up to a year or so.
>However, I am curious as to when the current networks will be combined
>so that all current and new customers have new towers to operate from in
>their home territory?

That's quite easy to do, since it only takes OTA (over the air) reprogramming
of SIMs to permit roaming.

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>

In article <[email protected]>,
John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:55:19
> -0400, Jeremy Thornton <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Does anyone have any "real" information on how quickly Cingular and AT&T
> >are going to merge their calling networks/towers. I understand the
> >billing and backend office systems could take up to a year or so.
> >However, I am curious as to when the current networks will be combined
> >so that all current and new customers have new towers to operate from in
> >their home territory?
>
> That's quite easy to do, since it only takes OTA (over the air) reprogramming
> of SIMs to permit roaming.

The back office could be many years. After 4 years Cingular has yet to
fully merge back office from all the pieces that 4 years ago created
Cingular:

SNET
Bell South
Ameritech
SWB
Houston Cellular
PacBell, etc.

If you're in one piece away from home and call 611, it CAN ONLY be
handled by the 611 piece you live in. And if the time zones are
different, you can lose out because your call may be rejected if
it's too late or early in the time zone you call from, regardless if 611
is manned in the piece you would be connected to.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 29 Oct
2004 10:11:01 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>The back office could be many years. After 4 years Cingular has yet to
>fully merge back office from all the pieces that 4 years ago created
>Cingular:

The integration of the single ATTWS piece is an easier job, particularly
because of compatible networks and back office systems.

>If you're in one piece away from home and call 611, it CAN ONLY be
>handled by the 611 piece you live in.

611 calls can be and often are routed to call centers in other regions.

>And if the time zones are
>different, you can lose out because your call may be rejected if
>it's too late or early in the time zone you call from, regardless if 611
>is manned in the piece you would be connected to.

That's actually handled by the call routing system.

The real question is what will happen to the 24x7 service by ATTWS, since
Cingular has more limited service.

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>

In article <[email protected]>,
John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on Fri, 29 Oct
> 2004 10:11:01 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >The back office could be many years. After 4 years Cingular has yet to
> >fully merge back office from all the pieces that 4 years ago created
> >Cingular:
>
> The integration of the single ATTWS piece is an easier job, particularly
> because of compatible networks and back office systems.

Tower GSM integration yes; billing integration, not likely. TDMA
billing is not integrated with GSM.

>
> >If you're in one piece away from home and call 611, it CAN ONLY be
> >handled by the 611 piece you live in.
>
> 611 calls can be and often are routed to call centers in other regions.

No, they are routed to the "piece" of Cingular your account exists in.


>
> >And if the time zones are
> >different, you can lose out because your call may be rejected if
> >it's too late or early in the time zone you call from, regardless if 611
> >is manned in the piece you would be connected to.
>
> That's actually handled by the call routing system.

Mishandled, since it goes by local time not the time of the call center
you are going to.


>
> The real question is what will happen to the 24x7 service by ATTWS, since
> Cingular has more limited service.

It most likely will go away since its more costly.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 29 Oct
2004 15:50:55 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:

>> The integration of the single ATTWS piece is an easier job, particularly
>> because of compatible networks and back office systems.
>
>Tower GSM integration yes; billing integration, not likely. TDMA
>billing is not integrated with GSM.

Both carriers had similar TDMA and GSM, back office systems are compatible,
and there is only one piece to integrate, so integration should be easier than
in the past.

>> >If you're in one piece away from home and call 611, it CAN ONLY be
>> >handled by the 611 piece you live in.
>>
>> 611 calls can be and often are routed to call centers in other regions.
>
>No, they are routed to the "piece" of Cingular your account exists in.

Not necessarily. As a subscriber in California, my 611 calls are routed to
different call centers in other areas.

>> >And if the time zones are
>> >different, you can lose out because your call may be rejected if
>> >it's too late or early in the time zone you call from, regardless if 611
>> >is manned in the piece you would be connected to.
>>
>> That's actually handled by the call routing system.
>
>Mishandled, since it goes by local time not the time of the call center
>you are going to.

The system actually retains the time zone of the caller.

>> The real question is what will happen to the 24x7 service by ATTWS, since
>> Cingular has more limited service.
>
>It most likely will go away since its more costly.

That remains to be seen. I personally doubt Cingular will do anything that
would tend to increase churn.

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>

In article <[email protected]>,
John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on Fri, 29 Oct
> 2004 15:50:55 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> The integration of the single ATTWS piece is an easier job, particularly
> >> because of compatible networks and back office systems.
> >
> >Tower GSM integration yes; billing integration, not likely. TDMA
> >billing is not integrated with GSM.
>
> Both carriers had similar TDMA and GSM, back office systems are compatible,
> and there is only one piece to integrate, so integration should be easier than
> in the past.

How did two become one? ATTWS has a totally different CRM system for
TDMA than it has for GWM. You keep coonfusing the Network/Towers (easy
to integrate) with the CRM systems (hard to integrate).


>
> >> >If you're in one piece away from home and call 611, it CAN ONLY be
> >> >handled by the 611 piece you live in.
> >>
> >> 611 calls can be and often are routed to call centers in other regions.
> >
> >No, they are routed to the "piece" of Cingular your account exists in.
>
> Not necessarily. As a subscriber in California, my 611 calls are routed to
> different call centers in other areas.

Mine always go to Tulsa, even if I'm in New York.


>
> >> >And if the time zones are
> >> >different, you can lose out because your call may be rejected if
> >> >it's too late or early in the time zone you call from, regardless if 611
> >> >is manned in the piece you would be connected to.
> >>
> >> That's actually handled by the call routing system.
> >
> >Mishandled, since it goes by local time not the time of the call center
> >you are going to.
>
> The system actually retains the time zone of the caller.

But not the time zone of the Cingular peice with their billing info.
So if you call in at 9:15 in NY, you're automatically told it's too
late, even though your call center in Tulsa is still open another 45
minutes.

>
> >> The real question is what will happen to the 24x7 service by ATTWS, since
> >> Cingular has more limited service.
> >
> >It most likely will go away since its more costly.
>
> That remains to be seen. I personally doubt Cingular will do anything that
> would tend to increase churn.

They already have. The website "MY Accounts" has been fubared the last
month. You can't use that or 611 to quickly track minutes used anymore
as Free Mobile to Mobile Minutes are no longer subtracted out.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 29 Oct
2004 16:53:36 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Both carriers had similar TDMA and GSM, back office systems are compatible,
>> and there is only one piece to integrate, so integration should be easier than
>> in the past.
>
>How did two become one? ATTWS has a totally different CRM system for
>TDMA than it has for GWM. You keep coonfusing the Network/Towers (easy
>to integrate) with the CRM systems (hard to integrate).

As I wrote, back office systems are compatible.

>> Not necessarily. As a subscriber in California, my 611 calls are routed to
>> different call centers in other areas.
>
>Mine always go to Tulsa, even if I'm in New York.

Fair enough, but then you can't generalize from that. As I wrote, 611 calls
can be and often are routed to call centers in other regions.

>> The system actually retains the time zone of the caller.
>
>But not the time zone of the Cingular peice with their billing info.

It retains the time zone of the Home region.

>So if you call in at 9:15 in NY, you're automatically told it's too
>late, even though your call center in Tulsa is still open another 45
>minutes.

Again, that must be something specific Tulsa -- it's not the case in other
markets.

>> That remains to be seen. I personally doubt Cingular will do anything that
>> would tend to increase churn.
>
>They already have. The website "MY Accounts" has been fubared the last
>month. You can't use that or 611 to quickly track minutes used anymore
>as Free Mobile to Mobile Minutes are no longer subtracted out.

That's a different issue, and most subscribers don't care in any event -- they
just wait for their monthly bills.

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>

In article <[email protected]>,
John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on Fri, 29 Oct
> 2004 16:53:36 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Both carriers had similar TDMA and GSM, back office systems are
> >> compatible,
> >> and there is only one piece to integrate, so integration should be easier
> >> than
> >> in the past.
> >
> >How did two become one? ATTWS has a totally different CRM system for
> >TDMA than it has for GWM. You keep coonfusing the Network/Towers (easy
> >to integrate) with the CRM systems (hard to integrate).
>
> As I wrote, back office systems are compatible.

Easy to say. Prove it.

>
> >> Not necessarily. As a subscriber in California, my 611 calls are routed
> >> to
> >> different call centers in other areas.
> >
> >Mine always go to Tulsa, even if I'm in New York.
>
> Fair enough, but then you can't generalize from that. As I wrote, 611 calls
> can be and often are routed to call centers in other regions.
>
> >> The system actually retains the time zone of the caller.
> >
> >But not the time zone of the Cingular peice with their billing info.
>
> It retains the time zone of the Home region.
>
> >So if you call in at 9:15 in NY, you're automatically told it's too
> >late, even though your call center in Tulsa is still open another 45
> >minutes.
>
> Again, that must be something specific Tulsa -- it's not the case in other
> markets.
>
> >> That remains to be seen. I personally doubt Cingular will do anything
> >> that
> >> would tend to increase churn.
> >
> >They already have. The website "MY Accounts" has been fubared the last
> >month. You can't use that or 611 to quickly track minutes used anymore
> >as Free Mobile to Mobile Minutes are no longer subtracted out.
>
> That's a different issue, and most subscribers don't care in any event --
> they
> just wait for their monthly bills.


Now you speak for most subscribers? you are a megalomaniac.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 29 Oct
2004 20:31:52 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:

>> As I wrote, back office systems are compatible.
>
>Easy to say. Prove it.

Prove your original claim of incompatibility.

>> That's a different issue, and most subscribers don't care in any event --
>> they
>> just wait for their monthly bills.
>
>Now you speak for most subscribers? you are a megalomaniac.

No, I just have a fair amount of information. And you?

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>

John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on Fri, 29 Oct
> 2004 20:31:52 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> As I wrote, back office systems are compatible.
> >
> >Easy to say. Prove it.
>
> Prove your original claim of incompatibility.
>
> >> That's a different issue, and most subscribers don't care in any event --
> >> they
> >> just wait for their monthly bills.
> >
> >Now you speak for most subscribers? you are a megalomaniac.
>
> No, I just have a fair amount of information. And you


Even though its one company you will have 2 CRMs. AT&T customers
will stay on siebel and will stay on their existing rate palns. They
will also retain post billing. Cingular customers will stay on their
plans of course and their pre billing. AT&T customers will not be
forced to migrate to cingular plans and will still be able to change
their plans up and down. They will be given discounts to buy a
cingular phone and get a cingular plan. Its not going to be as
difficult as you guys are making it out to be.

And when all the tdma contracts are up, they will not be renewed and
the customer will have to switch to gsm.


Steve wrote:
> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>[POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>>
>>In <[email protected]> on Fri, 29 Oct
>>2004 20:31:52 GMT, Jack Zwick <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>As I wrote, back office systems are compatible.
>>>
>>>Easy to say. Prove it.
>>
>>Prove your original claim of incompatibility.
>>
>>
>>>>That's a different issue, and most subscribers don't care in any event --
>>>>they
>>>>just wait for their monthly bills.
>>>
>>>Now you speak for most subscribers? you are a megalomaniac.
>>
>>No, I just have a fair amount of information. And you
>
>
>
> Even though its one company you will have 2 CRMs. AT&T customers
> will stay on siebel and will stay on their existing rate palns. They
> will also retain post billing. Cingular customers will stay on their
> plans of course and their pre billing. AT&T customers will not be
> forced to migrate to cingular plans and will still be able to change
> their plans up and down. They will be given discounts to buy a
> cingular phone and get a cingular plan. Its not going to be as
> difficult as you guys are making it out to be.

> And when all the tdma contracts are up, they will not be renewed and
>the customer will have to switch to gsm.
>

Customers will NOT have to switch until TDMA is turned off if they do not want
to! Both companies have had a policy of continuing month to month whatever
contract conditions you have.

I expect that TDMA will be around for 7 to 10 years (this is a guess on my part
but a lot of experience behind the guess).

--
John S.
e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on 31 Oct 2004 12:47:16 GMT,
[email protected]pamfree (John S.) wrote:

>> And when all the tdma contracts are up, they will not be renewed and
>>the customer will have to switch to gsm.
>
>Customers will NOT have to switch until TDMA is turned off if they do not want
>to! Both companies have had a policy of continuing month to month whatever
>contract conditions you have.

I think that's a pretty good bet for the next few years.

>I expect that TDMA will be around for 7 to 10 years (this is a guess on my part
>but a lot of experience behind the guess).

My guess is less than half of that. Worse, TDMA service can be expected to
degrade as Cingular converts more and more of it to GSM, and the supply of
replacement handsets is likely to dry up.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

John Navas wrote:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on 31 Oct 2004 12:47:16 GMT,
> [email protected]pamfree (John S.) wrote:
>
>
>>> And when all the tdma contracts are up, they will not be renewed and
>>>the customer will have to switch to gsm.
>>
>>Customers will NOT have to switch until TDMA is turned off if they do not want
>>to! Both companies have had a policy of continuing month to month whatever
>>contract conditions you have.
>
>
> I think that's a pretty good bet for the next few years.
>
>
>>I expect that TDMA will be around for 7 to 10 years (this is a guess on my part
>>but a lot of experience behind the guess).
>
>
> My guess is less than half of that. Worse, TDMA service can be expected to
> degrade as Cingular converts more and more of it to GSM, and the supply of
> replacement handsets is likely to dry up.
>


Personally, I expect TDMA serice availability to dry up faster than
analog, because only analog is required until the sunset date. Nobody
is required to continue TDMA for any particular time line. However, if
I'm wrong about that, I'm certain someone will jump in here.

--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'