My Bill Has Now Migrated

I got one of my bills yesterday and this month, it only has Cingular
name and logo on it. For the past few months it had both ATT and
Cingular on it. I guess this completes the transition to Cingular.

---

› See More: My Bill Has Now Migrated

In article <[email protected]>,
"Kev" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I got one of my bills yesterday and this month, it only has Cingular
> name and logo on it. For the past few months it had both ATT and
> Cingular on it. I guess this completes the transition to Cingular.

Depends. Is the bill a new format (meaning it was tarnsitioned to
Cingular systems), or is it the same old format with a New Logo on top
(meaning nothing has been transitioned) so it comes from ATTWS computer
systems.

"Kev" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I got one of my bills yesterday and this month, it only has Cingular
> name and logo on it. For the past few months it had both ATT and
> Cingular on it. I guess this completes the transition to Cingular.
>

Cingular has an internal deadline of March 31st to be totally clean of the
AWS logos and all AWS branding.

You are still billed on the Cingular Blue systems until you migrate to a
Cingular Orange handset and plan.

--
JJ

In article <[email protected]>,
"Jiu Jitsuperfly" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Kev" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I got one of my bills yesterday and this month, it only has Cingular
> > name and logo on it. For the past few months it had both ATT and
> > Cingular on it. I guess this completes the transition to Cingular.
> >
>
> Cingular has an internal deadline of March 31st to be totally clean of the
> AWS logos and all AWS branding.
>
> You are still billed on the Cingular Blue systems until you migrate to a
> Cingular Orange handset and plan.

So much for integration.

I'd be curious if someone now getting billed with the "Cingular" logo on
the Bill goes to a Cingular store and says, gee, I'd like a new phone
please.

OK, sir, as a former AT&T Wireless customer you need to buy a new phone
*AND* pay an activation fee -- maybe they'll even give you some BS about
porting your number.

Excuse me, but I already am a Cingular customer. "That doesn't matter sir,
you still need to buy a new phone, and pay an activation fee" For what?
"To transfer to Cingular." -- I'm confused.

Cingular is probably the crappiest company to ever grace the planet. The
message is to dump them for anyone else. If you simply take the BS they
give you lying down, then nothing will change.

-Dan

PS: I find Cingular so loathesome I refuse to port any of my AT&T accounts.
When the day comes when I require something different, and it will come, you
can bet Cingular will *not* even be considered.

--

=======================
Oregon and the Pacific Northwest
http://cell.uoregon.edu

--

Dan Albrich wrote:
> I'd be curious if someone now getting billed with the "Cingular" logo on
> the Bill goes to a Cingular store and says, gee, I'd like a new phone
> please.
>
> OK, sir, as a former AT&T Wireless customer you need to buy a new phone
> *AND* pay an activation fee -- maybe they'll even give you some BS about
> porting your number.

You will not have to pay a porting fee, and if you provide your own
equipment, you will not have to pay that upgrade fee.

> Excuse me, but I already am a Cingular customer. "That doesn't matter sir,
> you still need to buy a new phone, and pay an activation fee" For what?
> "To transfer to Cingular." -- I'm confused.
>
> Cingular is probably the crappiest company to ever grace the planet. The
> message is to dump them for anyone else. If you simply take the BS they
> give you lying down, then nothing will change.

It all depends on perception. I could point you to people who will tell
you that Verizon Wireless is the worst, others who claim Sprint PCS is
the worst, other claiming T-Mobile is the worst...I can give you a
Western Wireless horror story. I can also give you VZW horror stories,
first hand.

> -Dan
>
> PS: I find Cingular so loathesome I refuse to port any of my AT&T accounts.
> When the day comes when I require something different, and it will come, you
> can bet Cingular will *not* even be considered.

> You will not have to pay a porting fee, and if you provide your own
> equipment, you will not have to pay that upgrade fee.

--> My understanding was that even existing AT&T Wireless (now Cingular)
customers would be charged an activation fee. Is this not correct?

I was also told that selecting a Cingular plan would require a Cingular
phone. They will not unlock existing AT&T Wireless equipment. Is this not
correct?

-Dan

>>You will not have to pay a porting fee, and if you provide your own
>>equipment, you will not have to pay that upgrade fee.
>
> --> My understanding was that even existing AT&T Wireless (now Cingular)
> customers would be charged an activation fee. Is this not correct?

I have never heard of ATTWS customers actually being charged a new
activation fee. Cingular does, however, impose an equipment upgrade fee
of $18 per eligible line. This is for all Cingular customers, including
those of AT&T Wireless. If you purchase a phone that required it be
shipped to you and wish to wait until you physically have the handset to
port your number, the billing system may automatically generate a "phone
number change" charge. Of course, they will be more than happy to
remove it.

> I was also told that selecting a Cingular plan would require a Cingular
> phone. They will not unlock existing AT&T Wireless equipment. Is this not
> correct?

This is correct, ATTWS phones will remain locked. However, if you have
an unlocked GSM phone (or a used Cingular phone), you can get a SIM card
only and avoid the purchase of additional equipment.

> I have never heard of ATTWS customers actually being charged a new
> activation fee. Cingular does, however, impose an equipment upgrade fee
> of $18 per eligible line.
--> Having been an ATTWS customer for years, and having upgraded my lines, I
have never been charged this fee. It may be a "normal fee" for Cingular,
but it's news to me. Forgive me calling it an activation fee. Whatever
it's called, it would not have effected an existing ATTWS customer buying a
new phone on ATTWS. Of course, ATTWS does not exist any more, and we are
all Cingular customers now and that's a big part of my point. I find it
really odd how Cingular continues to distinguish "ATTWS" customers from
their own "normal" customers when it suits them, but in actuality all ATTWS
customers already are Cingular customers period.

> This is correct, ATTWS phones will remain locked. However, if you have an
> unlocked GSM phone (or a used Cingular phone), you can get a SIM card only
> and avoid the purchase of additional equipment.
--> How many ATTWS customers have an unlocked GSM phone sitting around? The
bottom line is that Cingular is forcing ATTWS customers to purchase new
equipment when they change plans, even in cases where the ATTWS equipment is
otherwise technology compatible.

The bigger issue here is that ATTWS customers *cannot* choose any former
ATTWS rate plan. Sooner or latter, all of us ATTWS customers need to make a
choice. We either pay Cingulars equipment upgrade fee and buy a new phone
to enable us to choose a Cingular plan that is in many cases worse than what
we have now, or we switch carriers entirely. Due to these required costs,
the price will be about the same either way.

I consider Cingular slimey because of the way they are handling this. My
TDMA/analog lines have become almost useless. Dramatic capacity issues
(dial 5 times to place one call) are now common. I am also unable to use my
TDMA/analog phones in places they used to have strong signal. It's as if
Cingular is intentionally turning off every- other TDMA/analog tower to "put
the hurt" on us to change over, or they simply aren't maintaining the old
system when it fails (which seems like an unlikely coincidence).

Our Cingular store continues to sell the old prepaid Free2go phones, and
when I asked about TDMA/analog support they told me things would continue
just fine for the foreseeable future. This is when I added my last Free2go
pone a couple months ago. I recently visted the same store to report
TDMA/analog problems and the guy at the store said that's to be expected--
pretty much to say sorry, that system is not supported now, and we're
hearing constant complaints. Part of my beef is that this same store is
still selling Free2go phones, and just two months earlier encouraged me to
buy another line.

If you're going to sell a service, support it. If you refuse to support it,
don't sell it. I find it crazy that anyone even talks about being an ATTWS
customer now when that company doesn't currently exist. Obviously Cingular
simply wants their customers to pay the transition cost. To me, that's
slime.

-Dan

--

=======================
Oregon and the Pacific Northwest
http://cell.uoregon.edu

--

Originally Posted by Dan Albrich

> I have never heard of ATTWS customers actually being charged a new
> activation fee. Cingular does, however, impose an equipment upgrade fee
> of $18 per eligible line.
--> Having been an ATTWS customer for years, and having upgraded my lines, I
have never been charged this fee. It may be a "normal fee" for Cingular,
but it's news to me. Forgive me calling it an activation fee. Whatever
it's called, it would not have effected an existing ATTWS customer buying a
new phone on ATTWS. Of course, ATTWS does not exist any more, and we are
all Cingular customers now and that's a big part of my point. I find it
really odd how Cingular continues to distinguish "ATTWS" customers from
their own "normal" customers when it suits them, but in actuality all ATTWS
customers already are Cingular customers period.

> This is correct, ATTWS phones will remain locked. However, if you have an
> unlocked GSM phone (or a used Cingular phone), you can get a SIM card only
> and avoid the purchase of additional equipment.
--> How many ATTWS customers have an unlocked GSM phone sitting around? The
bottom line is that Cingular is forcing ATTWS customers to purchase new
equipment when they change plans, even in cases where the ATTWS equipment is
otherwise technology compatible.

The bigger issue here is that ATTWS customers *cannot* choose any former
ATTWS rate plan. Sooner or latter, all of us ATTWS customers need to make a
choice. We either pay Cingulars equipment upgrade fee and buy a new phone
to enable us to choose a Cingular plan that is in many cases worse than what
we have now, or we switch carriers entirely. Due to these required costs,
the price will be about the same either way.

I consider Cingular slimey because of the way they are handling this. My
TDMA/analog lines have become almost useless. Dramatic capacity issues
(dial 5 times to place one call) are now common. I am also unable to use my
TDMA/analog phones in places they used to have strong signal. It's as if
Cingular is intentionally turning off every- other TDMA/analog tower to "put
the hurt" on us to change over, or they simply aren't maintaining the old
system when it fails (which seems like an unlikely coincidence).

Our Cingular store continues to sell the old prepaid Free2go phones, and
when I asked about TDMA/analog support they told me things would continue
just fine for the foreseeable future. This is when I added my last Free2go
pone a couple months ago. I recently visted the same store to report
TDMA/analog problems and the guy at the store said that's to be expected--
pretty much to say sorry, that system is not supported now, and we're
hearing constant complaints. Part of my beef is that this same store is
still selling Free2go phones, and just two months earlier encouraged me to
buy another line.

If you're going to sell a service, support it. If you refuse to support it,
don't sell it. I find it crazy that anyone even talks about being an ATTWS
customer now when that company doesn't currently exist. Obviously Cingular
simply wants their customers to pay the transition cost. To me, that's
slime.

-Dan

--

=======================
Oregon and the Pacific Northwest
http://cell.uoregon.edu

--

It's not a transition cost. Anytime any customer upgrades their equipment, there is an $18 charge. It doesn't matter if you were with AT&T or have been with Cingular for 10 years. If I as a Cingular customer have to pay it, why shouldn't an AT&T customer?

You even said yourself that AT&T does not exist. But then you complain that you won't be able to keep your rate plan if you sign up with Cingular. No logic there whatsoever.

As far as using AT&T equipment with Cingular, it's possible, you just have to get the unlock code. If you have the unlock code, you don't have to purchase a new phone. There is no benefit for Cingular when you purchase one of their phones other than the fact that you advertise the Cingular name. Stores actually lose money on the phone itself, in return making a profit off of the contract that you sign. Hypothetically you could take an unlocked AT&T phone into a Cingular store, have it activated with a Cingular rate plan, with no commitment whatsoever. If you're in a position where your phone is no longer working with AT&T, fine, Cingular will give you a free phone with a contract, you don't have to "Buy" a new phone unless you want something fancy.

It seems you are suggesting Cingular should have people unlock all 20 million former AT&T wireless phones, just so they can take it to Cingular.

I'm not understanding what your complaint it at all.

Dan Albrich wrote:
>>I have never heard of ATTWS customers actually being charged a new
>>activation fee. Cingular does, however, impose an equipment upgrade fee
>>of $18 per eligible line.
>
> --> Having been an ATTWS customer for years, and having upgraded my lines, I
> have never been charged this fee. It may be a "normal fee" for Cingular,
> but it's news to me. Forgive me calling it an activation fee. Whatever
> it's called, it would not have effected an existing ATTWS customer buying a
> new phone on ATTWS. Of course, ATTWS does not exist any more, and we are
> all Cingular customers now and that's a big part of my point. I find it
> really odd how Cingular continues to distinguish "ATTWS" customers from
> their own "normal" customers when it suits them, but in actuality all ATTWS
> customers already are Cingular customers period.

But...that doesn't seem to be the case. Here's the scenario: I signed
up with an Orange plan in February 2003. In March of 2004, I wanted to
get a new phone. I was required to pay the upgrade fee for the new
phone. However, I choose to purchase a different phone (not available
from Cingular at the time) from a different source.

All ATTWS, including myself, are now in this category. I went the other
way - I migrated to ATTWS after Cingular aquired them (North American
package).

>>This is correct, ATTWS phones will remain locked. However, if you have an
>>unlocked GSM phone (or a used Cingular phone), you can get a SIM card only
>>and avoid the purchase of additional equipment.
>
> --> How many ATTWS customers have an unlocked GSM phone sitting around? The
> bottom line is that Cingular is forcing ATTWS customers to purchase new
> equipment when they change plans, even in cases where the ATTWS equipment is
> otherwise technology compatible.

A few features may not work correctly without a Cingular branded phone,
and if Cingular provides lock codes to current ATTWS customers, it would
be expected to provide technical support. Cingular, in reality, doesn't
care if you use an unlocked ATTWS phone, but it just doesn't want to be
responsible to support technical issues such as WAP/GPRS/EDGE issues, to
name a big one.

> The bigger issue here is that ATTWS customers *cannot* choose any former
> ATTWS rate plan. Sooner or latter, all of us ATTWS customers need to make a
> choice. We either pay Cingulars equipment upgrade fee and buy a new phone
> to enable us to choose a Cingular plan that is in many cases worse than what
> we have now, or we switch carriers entirely. Due to these required costs,
> the price will be about the same either way.

Do you have a foundation discount of any kind? I have a generous one,
which is why I migrated, and yesterday when I checked, the old ATTWS
base rate plans were still there. I didn't check to see if the add-ons
changed. I did notice, however, that there were a lot of Cingular
phones in the choices.

> I consider Cingular slimey because of the way they are handling this. My
> TDMA/analog lines have become almost useless. Dramatic capacity issues
> (dial 5 times to place one call) are now common. I am also unable to use my
> TDMA/analog phones in places they used to have strong signal. It's as if
> Cingular is intentionally turning off every- other TDMA/analog tower to "put
> the hurt" on us to change over, or they simply aren't maintaining the old
> system when it fails (which seems like an unlikely coincidence).

I doubt this is the case. I just don't think Cingular would hurt a
large portion (probably somewhere between 5 and 25% of its customers) in
such a way. There is probably actually a technical issue. Remember,
Cingular is switching all ATTWS blue systems into Cingular Orange.

I work for a company that did some contracting for Cingular, and let me
tell you, integrating the two is no easy task (and this is even going to
be one of the easier integrations in the telecom industry). There are
many many techical aspects that engineers have no idea what *all* exact
outcomes will be until after any aspect is affected. It's very
difficult to integrate 2 national networks with a lot of overlap (which
shouldn't be the case in your area though).

> Our Cingular store continues to sell the old prepaid Free2go phones, and
> when I asked about TDMA/analog support they told me things would continue
> just fine for the foreseeable future. This is when I added my last Free2go
> pone a couple months ago. I recently visted the same store to report
> TDMA/analog problems and the guy at the store said that's to be expected--
> pretty much to say sorry, that system is not supported now, and we're
> hearing constant complaints. Part of my beef is that this same store is
> still selling Free2go phones, and just two months earlier encouraged me to
> buy another line.

That could be a problem with the associates of that store. I agree

> If you're going to sell a service, support it. If you refuse to support it,
> don't sell it. I find it crazy that anyone even talks about being an ATTWS
> customer now when that company doesn't currently exist. Obviously Cingular
> simply wants their customers to pay the transition cost. To me, that's
> slime.

I do agree with you it's not good that your phone is functioning (or not
fucntioning) like that. However, I do find that if the local managers
and associates allow the product to be sold when they know it's buggy or
doesn't work like it is supposed to, that is unethical. It's the people
who live and work in your community being unethical, because they are
the front line to the customer, and they could say something.

If you provide an appropriate handset, you will not have to pay an
upgrade, and if you are not currently under contract (providing your own
equipment), Cingular will not require you to sign a contract. Of all
the major carriers, Cingular is the only one who will give you good
deals without a contract (only mobile to mobile is not included for new
noncontract customers).

> -Dan

I'm sorry you're having such a horrible time. I hope things change for
the better, and soon. I'm having the opposite experience -- my coverage
has improved, dropped calls are a thing of the past, and roaming
coverage is increasing, but I'm on GSM, and I'm in Florida, so the
situation is different. TDMA here seems to be quite stable, and even
getting a little better. But again, opposite ends of the country.

TH

"Tropical Haven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Dan Albrich wrote:
>> I'd be curious if someone now getting billed with the "Cingular" logo on
>> the Bill goes to a Cingular store and says, gee, I'd like a new phone
>> please.
>>
>> OK, sir, as a former AT&T Wireless customer you need to buy a new phone
>> *AND* pay an activation fee -- maybe they'll even give you some BS about
>> porting your number.
>
> You will not have to pay a porting fee, and if you provide your own
> equipment, you will not have to pay that upgrade fee.
>
>> Excuse me, but I already am a Cingular customer. "That doesn't matter
>> sir, you still need to buy a new phone, and pay an activation fee" For
>> what? "To transfer to Cingular." -- I'm confused.
>>
>> Cingular is probably the crappiest company to ever grace the planet. The
>> message is to dump them for anyone else. If you simply take the BS they
>> give you lying down, then nothing will change.
>
> It all depends on perception. I could point you to people who will tell
> you that Verizon Wireless is the worst, others who claim Sprint PCS is the
> worst, other claiming T-Mobile is the worst...I can give you a Western
> Wireless horror story. I can also give you VZW horror stories, first
> hand.
>
>> -Dan
>>
>> PS: I find Cingular so loathesome I refuse to port any of my AT&T
>> accounts. When the day comes when I require something different, and it
>> will come, you can bet Cingular will *not* even be considered.
>
If you're in a verizon wireless area they are fine. But if you are in an
extended network area don't expect text messaging or mobile web to work or a
local cell phone number with verizon. I learned that firsthand two months
ago.

> It's not a transition cost. Anytime any customer upgrades their
> equipment, there is an $18 charge. It doesn't matter if you were with
> AT&T or have been with Cingular for 10 years. If I as a Cingular
> customer have to pay it, why shouldn't an AT&T customer?

--> It's a new fee for ATTWS customers that did not exist prior.
It's also similar in cost to an activation fee with another carrier if the
user
chooses to go to another carrier rather than Cingular. Why charge somone
at all for upgrading a phone? This
is not common cellular practice. i.e. Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint don't
charge this fee (just for example). This is especially odd because
in GSM land you simply move the SIM. The carrier need not be
bothered with an ESN swap.

> You even said yourself that AT&T does not exist. But then you complain
> that you won't be able to keep your rate plan if you sign up with
> Cingular. No logic there whatsoever.

--> My point is that former ATTWS customers cannot choose any prior
ATTWS plan because those don't exist. Over time most of us have
changes with our plans-- say add a line, or move up or down in minutes.
My understanding is that ATTWS customers cannot make any plan
changes short of taking on a Cingular plan with it's features or lack
thereof.

The point is ATTWS customers cannot make any changes whatsoever that
don't incur similar cost as switching carriers would. You'd think Cingular
would welcome the existing ATTWS customers into the family, maybe even
offer them special deals to switch over to Cingular plans. On the whole,
ATTWS plans were and are a better value than existing Cingular plans.

> It seems you are suggesting Cingular should have people unlock all 20
> million former AT&T wireless phones, just so they can take it to
> Cingular.

--> Yes, that is what I am saying, and no unlocking a phone is not a big
deal for a carrier. It's simply the cost of doing business when you acquire
another carrier-- that is, if you care about keeping the old customers.

ATTWS customers did not choose to be acquired. None of the existing Cingular
plans can match any of my prior ATTWS plans. I'll have to pay more money for
less
minutes, and that's just the beginning. The service quality has gone down
in my area.
I get to pay the new "standard" equipment upgrade fee, and buy a new phone.
A free phone that requires a contract is infact not free.

> I'm not understanding what your complaint it at all.
--> You probably never had the benefit of years of good service with ATTWS
to understand that we lost something when they were acquired.

"Dan Albrich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> It's not a transition cost. Anytime any customer upgrades their
>> equipment, there is an $18 charge. It doesn't matter if you were with
>> AT&T or have been with Cingular for 10 years. If I as a Cingular
>> customer have to pay it, why shouldn't an AT&T customer?
>
> --> It's a new fee for ATTWS customers that did not exist prior.


Yes it did exist prior and the upgrade fee was $15 I believe. The reason
most people weren't charged this fee is because store managers, and
salespeople removed the charge from the customers bill.

Along those lines...this is why AWS is out of business. You can't give
evrything away and be profitable


> It's also similar in cost to an activation fee with another carrier if the
> user
> chooses to go to another carrier rather than Cingular. Why charge somone
> at all for upgrading a phone? This
> is not common cellular practice. i.e. Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint don't
> charge this fee (just for example). This is especially odd because
> in GSM land you simply move the SIM. The carrier need not be
> bothered with an ESN swap.


I don't know where you get your info but alot of carriers now charge upgrade
fees. Verizon being tops among them.


>
>> You even said yourself that AT&T does not exist. But then you complain
>> that you won't be able to keep your rate plan if you sign up with
>> Cingular. No logic there whatsoever.
>
> --> My point is that former ATTWS customers cannot choose any prior
> ATTWS plan because those don't exist. Over time most of us have
> changes with our plans-- say add a line, or move up or down in minutes.
> My understanding is that ATTWS customers cannot make any plan
> changes short of taking on a Cingular plan with it's features or lack
> thereof.


You can change your AWS plan. Whoever said you couldn't is wrong. You can
also add a line at anytime. Phones are just hard to come by. I was told Blue
CS has phones available for customers wishing to add a line or dealing with
warranty issue.


>
> The point is ATTWS customers cannot make any changes whatsoever that
> don't incur similar cost as switching carriers would. You'd think
> Cingular
> would welcome the existing ATTWS customers into the family, maybe even
> offer them special deals to switch over to Cingular plans. On the whole,
> ATTWS plans were and are a better value than existing Cingular plans.


Like was stated previously. AWS is out of business because it could not
fiscally maintain its business practice of giving everything away.


>
>> It seems you are suggesting Cingular should have people unlock all 20
>> million former AT&T wireless phones, just so they can take it to
>> Cingular.
>
> --> Yes, that is what I am saying, and no unlocking a phone is not a big
> deal for a carrier. It's simply the cost of doing business when you
> acquire
> another carrier-- that is, if you care about keeping the old customers.
>
> ATTWS customers did not choose to be acquired. None of the existing
> Cingular
> plans can match any of my prior ATTWS plans. I'll have to pay more money
> for less
> minutes, and that's just the beginning. The service quality has gone down
> in my area.
> I get to pay the new "standard" equipment upgrade fee, and buy a new
> phone.
> A free phone that requires a contract is infact not free.

They wouldn't have to just unlock your phone but have the firmware
reflashed, and software dl'ed as well. You honestly don't think this would
be a money losing proposition???

There is no way you could reflash 20 million phones. Unlocking isn't a
simple task either considering some phones require a cable and special
software.

--
JJ

Dan --
I know you're frustrated, but read below, as you probably have it better
now than you would with the alternatives.


>>It's not a transition cost. Anytime any customer upgrades their
>>equipment, there is an $18 charge. It doesn't matter if you were with
>>AT&T or have been with Cingular for 10 years. If I as a Cingular
>>customer have to pay it, why shouldn't an AT&T customer?
>
> --> It's a new fee for ATTWS customers that did not exist prior.
> It's also similar in cost to an activation fee with another carrier if the
> user
> chooses to go to another carrier rather than Cingular. Why charge somone
> at all for upgrading a phone? This
> is not common cellular practice. i.e. Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint don't
> charge this fee (just for example). This is especially odd because
> in GSM land you simply move the SIM. The carrier need not be
> bothered with an ESN swap.

If you are still on an analog-only plan with Verizon Wireless, you most
likely will have to purchase a new phone. No matter what, you must sign
a new contract to change your rate plan, even if you provide your own phone.

>>You even said yourself that AT&T does not exist. But then you complain
>>that you won't be able to keep your rate plan if you sign up with
>>Cingular. No logic there whatsoever.
>
> --> My point is that former ATTWS customers cannot choose any prior
> ATTWS plan because those don't exist. Over time most of us have
> changes with our plans-- say add a line, or move up or down in minutes.
> My understanding is that ATTWS customers cannot make any plan
> changes short of taking on a Cingular plan with it's features or lack
> thereof.

Verizon Wireless no longer offers PrimeCo or GTE Mobilnet plane, either.
If you are on a legacy, for example, CommNet (Vodafone Airtouch) plan,
you must pick a new plan if you want to add a line.

> The point is ATTWS customers cannot make any changes whatsoever that
> don't incur similar cost as switching carriers would. You'd think Cingular
> would welcome the existing ATTWS customers into the family, maybe even
> offer them special deals to switch over to Cingular plans. On the whole,
> ATTWS plans were and are a better value than existing Cingular plans.

It's the same with small carriers Verizon Wireless acquired...they were
no longer able to pick the unlimited minutes plan that the legacy
company offered, and were thrown in line with the rest of VZW.

>>It seems you are suggesting Cingular should have people unlock all 20
>>million former AT&T wireless phones, just so they can take it to
>>Cingular.
>
> --> Yes, that is what I am saying, and no unlocking a phone is not a big
> deal for a carrier. It's simply the cost of doing business when you acquire
> another carrier-- that is, if you care about keeping the old customers.

I don't think it's the fact of unlocking the phone as much as it is with
technical support. "No, sir, I'm sorry, we don't have a Cingular
software update that will allow you to use AIM on Cingular because the
software for this phone was written to work only with the old AT&T
Wireless system..." There are too many issues, most to all of which
will be firmware related.

> ATTWS customers did not choose to be acquired. None of the existing Cingular
> plans can match any of my prior ATTWS plans. I'll have to pay more money for
> less
> minutes, and that's just the beginning. The service quality has gone down
> in my area.
> I get to pay the new "standard" equipment upgrade fee, and buy a new phone.
> A free phone that requires a contract is infact not free.

AT&T Wireless was not a good business financially. There are worse
alternatives. Chapter 11? Or it could cease operations. Monet Mobile,
a broadband PCS operator ceased operations. Its customers didn't ask to
have the entire system shut off, but it happened. ATTWS is now part of
a stable company, and customers will be better off with an operator that
can pay its bills than an operator that can't.

ATTWS could have been acquired by Vodafone. I'm sure it would be more
dificult as Vodafone stuck ATTWS in line with its global properties.

>>I'm not understanding what your complaint it at all.
>
> --> You probably never had the benefit of years of good service with ATTWS
> to understand that we lost something when they were acquired.

I agree that a little piece of living history became a stiff piece of
the past when ATTWS decided it wanted to cease its operations, however,
because it allowed ALL operations to be transferred to another entity,
it has allowed the bulk of its customers to become part of another
entity that is allowing you to keep current plans (not the ones to
SunCom or Alltel -- they'll have to pick new rate plans or drop their
service).

But if an acquisition didn't take place, ATTWS would cease to function
eventually (with the rate it was going, it would probably be sooner than
later).

A number of worse things could have happened:

ATTWS could no longer function as an entity, therefore the creditors
decided that the customers would be sold to other carriers, the
infrastructure would be sold, and the airwave licenses would go up for
auction. Customer accounts could be sold in block to other carriers,
like pieces of old scrap metal when a car is salvaged, sending some
customers to Verizon Wireless requiring a new handset with new
technology, some customers to Sprint PCS, some customers to Alltel, some
customers to Cingular, some customers to T-Mobile, some to Suncom, some
to Dobson, some to Western Wireless. It would probably be on a market
by market basis.

Similar to Monet Mobile, AT&T Wireless could have chosen to cease
operations and allow its infrastructure and airwave licenses to be
seized by creditors. Monet Mobile, the first US carrier to launch
CDMA2000 1x EV-DO, decided on the latter. One day customers got a
letter, a phone call, and an e-mail stating that services will be
discontinued. I think it was only 7 or 14 days before it happened. The
customers did not ask to be acquired, and they weren't, but they were
left with no alternative to their services, as Monet Mobile was the only
company offering that kind of service in the markets it served. Monet's
network assets (infrastructure and airwave licenses), seem to have
gotten divied up and "scrapped" by selling portions to other carriers
(CommNet Wireless seems to have gotten some).

What I'm trying to say is that Cingular and AT&T Wireless have "been in
bed" the whole time, and even though they were competitors, they worked
closely with each other, and it really was a good match. There will be
some integration issues, and eventually all ATTWS handsets will be
"officially" out of commission. No different from Verizon making most
(if not all) legacy handsets out of commission on its system. It really
could be a lot worse.

TH