TDMA problem in O.C.

"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:TtB%e.98691
>
> Cingular might actually come reasonably close, although you need to get to
> someone with the authority to do it, which in your case would be
> "Retention"
>

I have no desire to be retained by Cingular. I just do not like the
insensitive attitudes that I've seen exhibited by their CSRs. And their
service on what used to be a perfectly fine TDMA system now is substandard.
When I give this plan up, I'm leaving. No retention for me, thank you.


(which you get to by telling them you're about to switch carriers),

The few times that I had issues with AT&T, I never had to threaten to switch
carriers in order to get someone to listen to me. I guess I've just been
spoiled, eh?

I'm not going to tell Cingular anything--one day my three numbers will just
be ported over to Verizon, and it'll be a done deal. I use Verizon for
landline, forr VoIP and for DSL, and they've always been fine if I had a
problem or question. And they do make a concerted effort to make their
services WORK.

I don't ask for perfection, just that my provider not treat me like some
kind of brainless Neanderthal when I call with an occasional question or
issue. When it comes to customer service, Cingular has yet to learn what
Verizon has already forgotten.

> cheapest Cingular plan at $39.99),

I use less than 50 anytime minutes per month, for Christsakes. Most of my
calls are M2M, and even they do not add up to more than 250 min per month.
I already pay them more than I should. And now my TDMA phones are suddenly
experiencing inability to complete calls (as though all the towers were
being used to capacity), and when I turn on my phone it takes 2-3 minutes
before it "finds" the Cingular signal. None of this ever happened when
ATTWS operated things. When I call Cingular, the idiots that call
themselves CSRs deny it, and try to get me to migrate to GSM, and a higher
rate plan.

IT'LL BE A COLD DAY IN HELL WHEN I MIGRATE TO "ANYTHING" FROM CINGULAR!

> How is not doing a giveaway sticking it to you? And what makes you think
> Verizon will give you a better deal than Cingular would?

I do not know for certain that Verizon will be better, but I believe, based
on my first-hand knowledge of their other communications services, that they
will be. My requirements are modest--I rarely roam, and when I do it is not
more than 75 miles from home. All I want is for a phone where the calls go
through and I can receive an occasional text message. And it would be nice
to be with a carrier that is not juggling both a TDMA and a GSM network, and
that blames their problem-of-the-day on network compatibility issues.

I don't know which I despise more--Cingular's inability to offer me service
that is reliable, or the attitudes and incompetence exhibited by their CSRs.
I've just got a really bad reaction to anything associated with Cingular. I
cannot remember a time that I ever despised a company the way I despise
Cingular. Total morons.

---

› See More: TDMA problem in O.C.

"Jerome Zelinske" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:S8J%[email protected]...
> Sounds like a valid solution to me. cingular must? haha! It ain't gonna
> happen! Sure, you do not have to buy a gsm phone. You could buy a CDMA
> phone instead.
>

That's what I'll do--get a CDMA phone, and migrate to Verizon! Then I'll be
able to get my calls to go through, rather than wait forever while my
current phone seeks a signal from the tower that is three blocks from my
house.

**** Cingular!

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <NXP%e.1226$sG2.1058@trndny08> on Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:58:37 GMT, "Jeremy"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I'm not going to tell Cingular anything--one day my three numbers will just
>be ported over to Verizon, and it'll be a done deal. ...

>I use less than 50 anytime minutes per month, for Christsakes. Most of my
>calls are M2M, and even they do not add up to more than 250 min per month.
>...

Then isn't migration problematic for you? Verizon has a completely different
subscriber base than Cingular, so M2M calls to the Cingular (+ ATTWS) base
won't be free any more.

>I don't know which I despise more--Cingular's inability to offer me service
>that is reliable, or the attitudes and incompetence exhibited by their CSRs.
>I've just got a really bad reaction to anything associated with Cingular. I
>cannot remember a time that I ever despised a company the way I despise
>Cingular. Total morons.

Given that attitude, I can understand why you didn't get far with the CSRs.
No offense intended.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

The antenna site may be three blocks from your house, but if they are
not sending a tdma signal, (and they do not have to), your phone can
seek it all it wants, but you are not going to get/make any calls.

Jeremy wrote:
> "Jerome Zelinske" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:S8J%[email protected]...
>
>>Sounds like a valid solution to me. cingular must? haha! It ain't gonna
>>happen! Sure, you do not have to buy a gsm phone. You could buy a CDMA
>>phone instead.
>>
>
>
> That's what I'll do--get a CDMA phone, and migrate to Verizon! Then I'll be
> able to get my calls to go through, rather than wait forever while my
> current phone seeks a signal from the tower that is three blocks from my
> house.
>
> **** Cingular!
>
>

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> Cingular has been doing TDMA turndowns in overlap markets (areas where
> both BLU & ORG TDMA signal is present) in various parts of the
> country. There should not be a void or large large areas of no TDMA
> coverage left after the turndown. The purpose is to eliminate
> redundant networks serving the *same* geographical area.
> Unfortunately, there have been some problems that have crept up in
> some cases.

Hmmm. I just spot check with Field Test occasionally when in Dallas
proper but even then I've seen several cases over the last couple of
months where TDMA was taken down totally (GSM and AMPS only available on
a GAIT phone on a GAIT plan--and yes it does switch correctly from ORG
to BLU when the ORG signal is lost--which is not often in Dallas).
Sometimes for hours but I've seen at least two "outages" last for days.
Once or twice could have been errors or problems--but this is happening
a little too frequently for me not to be suspicious.

>
> Let's try to help him since TDMA isn't going to sunset this year, or
> next...umm, let's keep the discussion to Q4 of '05. That'll keep this
> thread on track.
>

"or next"--And your official source is what? I certainly hope you're
correct for the sake of roaming users of rural carriers that haven't
switched by then but remember there is no FCC rule that demands that
they keep TDMA active until a certain date like there is for AMPS. Once
the majority of TDMA-only customers have switched to GSM I wouldn't hold
*my* breath about them keeping TDMA support running for the few
stragglers and roamers.

---

I was east of Dallas Friday and found one area that was strong
*CINGULAR* TDMA--no GSM (don't even ask why I had time to be playing
with field test--there wasn't any graffiti to read!). Fifteen miles
down the road Cingular GSM was back full strength. Wonder if they
missed a tower :-)

--
Jud
Dallas TX USA

"Jerome Zelinske" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The antenna site may be three blocks from your house, but if they are not
> sending a tdma signal, (and they do not have to), your phone can seek it
> all it wants, but you are not going to get/make any calls.
>

I haven't checked the legal aspect of this, but it seems that they must
either stop taking my money or provide me with some modicum of service.
They have never had a problem getting their bills out to me.

But I digress. Bottom line is that I will eventually migrate to a company
with which I have had a much better relationship. The world will go on
turning, and Cingular will not go bankrupt because they lost my business.

Judging from many of the posts here, Cingular has an attitude of
near-contempt toward their customers. I am beginning to believe that some
of these "no service" issues were, in fact, engineered by Cingular, to piss
off TDMA customers and coerce them to migrating to their Orange GSM network.

They succeeded in pissing me off, and they also succeeded in eliminating any
possibility that I will ever consider them as a carrier in the future. You
know, a couple of million more people like me, and they just might concede
that they have a problem . . .

Speaking as objectively as I can, I simply cannot understand why they would
not try to satisfy their ATTWS acquired customer base, and turn them into
Cingular boosters, rather than Cingular bashers. Only in America . . .

They are providing you with more than "some modicum" of service. They
are providing gsm service. That is the service they provide, the
business they are in. They are not in the tdma business. When the FCC
requirement expires, they will also be out of the amps business just as
fast as the CDMA carriers. They are offering and encouraging a simple
way to migrate to their service. They are not responsible for att
wireless customers being upset. Att wireless is responsible for going
out of business. They are responsible for paying att wireless for the
ability go be the carrier that has the simplest, easiest way for att
wireless customers to continue having wireless telephone service. You
are not being coerced. You do have a choice. You are not being held to
a contract or etf. They knew in advance that they would not get all of
att wireless' customers to move to gsm. But they made it easy enough
that they would gain enough customers, plus the value of the licenses to
be worth it. How long do you think cingular should keep att's system
running? There has been plenty of time for all of att wireless'
customers to have moved to gsm by now.


Jeremy wrote:
> "Jerome Zelinske" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>The antenna site may be three blocks from your house, but if they are not
>>sending a tdma signal, (and they do not have to), your phone can seek it
>>all it wants, but you are not going to get/make any calls.
>>
>
>
> I haven't checked the legal aspect of this, but it seems that they must
> either stop taking my money or provide me with some modicum of service.
> They have never had a problem getting their bills out to me.
>
> But I digress. Bottom line is that I will eventually migrate to a company
> with which I have had a much better relationship. The world will go on
> turning, and Cingular will not go bankrupt because they lost my business.
>
> Judging from many of the posts here, Cingular has an attitude of
> near-contempt toward their customers. I am beginning to believe that some
> of these "no service" issues were, in fact, engineered by Cingular, to piss
> off TDMA customers and coerce them to migrating to their Orange GSM network.
>
> They succeeded in pissing me off, and they also succeeded in eliminating any
> possibility that I will ever consider them as a carrier in the future. You
> know, a couple of million more people like me, and they just might concede
> that they have a problem . . .
>
> Speaking as objectively as I can, I simply cannot understand why they would
> not try to satisfy their ATTWS acquired customer base, and turn them into
> Cingular boosters, rather than Cingular bashers. Only in America . . .
>
>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Mon, 03 Oct 2005
22:51:51 GMT, Jerome Zelinske <[email protected]> wrote:

>... There has been plenty of time for all of att wireless'
>customers to have moved to gsm by now.

Indeed, and most have done so. From Cingular's 2Q reported results:
* 7% of subscriber base switched from TDMA to GSM in the quarter.
* GSM carried 9 out of every 10 minutes of calls on the combined network.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Jerome Zelinske wrote:
> They are providing you with more than "some modicum" of service.
> They are providing gsm service. That is the service they provide, the
> business they are in. They are not in the tdma business. When the FCC
> requirement expires, they will also be out of the amps business just as
> fast as the CDMA carriers. They are offering and encouraging a simple
> way to migrate to their service. They are not responsible for att
> wireless customers being upset. Att wireless is responsible for going
> out of business. They are responsible for paying att wireless for the
> ability go be the carrier that has the simplest, easiest way for att
> wireless customers to continue having wireless telephone service. You
> are not being coerced. You do have a choice. You are not being held to
> a contract or etf. They knew in advance that they would not get all of
> att wireless' customers to move to gsm. But they made it easy enough
> that they would gain enough customers, plus the value of the licenses to
> be worth it. How long do you think cingular should keep att's system
> running? There has been plenty of time for all of att wireless'
> customers to have moved to gsm by now.
>

Really? No one from Cingular ever suggested that I upgrade to a GSM plan
before 9/11/2005; but only after this date when I had to call Cingular
CS. Before that date I never had a problem with my ATT TDMA phone. Still
do not know what the problem is. My ATT TDMA phone does in-fact indicate
"Cingular" and I can make 611 calls (probably 911 also, but haven't
tried it) to talk to a Cingular CSR. Any other call gets hijacked by
Americas Roaming Network. I have to drive about 40 miles to Miami to
make normal calls; proving that the phone works. Obviously there is TDMA
service, but a Cingular CSR has yet to successfully help me with a
solution.
ATT did provide TDMA service, they sold TDMA phones up to the day before
the sale of ATT Wireless to Cingular. Cingular bought the responsibility
to continue servicing ATT customers. No where did I read before the sale
or after the sale that it was the intention of Cingular to drop TDMA
service. In-fact I received a warm welcoming letter that my service
would continue. Now just a few years later my TDMA service is abruptly
shattered, as though it were a terrorist attack.

John Navas wrote:
> Jerome Zelinske <[email protected]> wrote:
>>... There has been plenty of time for all of att wireless'
>>customers to have moved to gsm by now.

From reading this froup, I get the impression that those who haven't
moved are resisting the move, both because of low-priced packages which
they have now but which Cingular won't match, and because of the need
to toss out a perfectly good (and probably well-liked) phone and spend
hundreds of dollars on a new phone.

> Indeed, and most have done so. From Cingular's 2Q reported results:
> * 7% of subscriber base switched from TDMA to GSM in the quarter.
> * GSM carried 9 out of every 10 minutes of calls on the combined network.

Something doesn't seem logical about that.

If 7% converted, then 93% didn't convert; they stayed with what they had,
which was either GSM or TDMA. It seems most likely to me that most of
them had TDMA, unless Cingular's churn is 90% or higher.

--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Tue, 04 Oct 2005 13:35:12 -0500,
clifto <[email protected]> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>> Jerome Zelinske <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>... There has been plenty of time for all of att wireless'
>>>customers to have moved to gsm by now.
>
>From reading this froup, I get the impression that those who haven't
>moved are resisting the move, both because of low-priced packages which
>they have now but which Cingular won't match, and because of the need
>to toss out a perfectly good (and probably well-liked) phone and spend
>hundreds of dollars on a new phone.
>
>> Indeed, and most have done so. From Cingular's 2Q reported results:
>> * 7% of subscriber base switched from TDMA to GSM in the quarter.
>> * GSM carried 9 out of every 10 minutes of calls on the combined network.
>
>Something doesn't seem logical about that.
>
>If 7% converted, then 93% didn't convert; they stayed with what they had,
>which was either GSM or TDMA. It seems most likely to me that most of
>them had TDMA, unless Cingular's churn is 90% or higher.

That was 7% converting in just that one quarter. The cumulative total is
undoubtedly much higher, as evidenced by 90% of calls being GSM.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Why did you not upgrade to GSM? You probably could have even gotten a free
phone. TDMA is an antiquated technology, it is time for you to "move-on".
Don't you think so?

"numeric" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
>
>
> Jerome Zelinske wrote:
>> They are providing you with more than "some modicum" of service.
>> They are providing gsm service. That is the service they provide, the
>> business they are in. They are not in the tdma business. When the FCC
>> requirement expires, they will also be out of the amps business just as
>> fast as the CDMA carriers. They are offering and encouraging a simple
>> way to migrate to their service. They are not responsible for att
>> wireless customers being upset. Att wireless is responsible for going
>> out of business. They are responsible for paying att wireless for the
>> ability go be the carrier that has the simplest, easiest way for att
>> wireless customers to continue having wireless telephone service. You
>> are not being coerced. You do have a choice. You are not being held to
>> a contract or etf. They knew in advance that they would not get all of
>> att wireless' customers to move to gsm. But they made it easy enough
>> that they would gain enough customers, plus the value of the licenses to
>> be worth it. How long do you think cingular should keep att's system
>> running? There has been plenty of time for all of att wireless'
>> customers to have moved to gsm by now.
>>
>
> Really? No one from Cingular ever suggested that I upgrade to a GSM plan
> before 9/11/2005; but only after this date when I had to call Cingular CS.
> Before that date I never had a problem with my ATT TDMA phone. Still do
> not know what the problem is. My ATT TDMA phone does in-fact indicate
> "Cingular" and I can make 611 calls (probably 911 also, but haven't tried
> it) to talk to a Cingular CSR. Any other call gets hijacked by Americas
> Roaming Network. I have to drive about 40 miles to Miami to make normal
> calls; proving that the phone works. Obviously there is TDMA service, but
> a Cingular CSR has yet to successfully help me with a solution.
> ATT did provide TDMA service, they sold TDMA phones up to the day before
> the sale of ATT Wireless to Cingular. Cingular bought the responsibility
> to continue servicing ATT customers. No where did I read before the sale
> or after the sale that it was the intention of Cingular to drop TDMA
> service. In-fact I received a warm welcoming letter that my service would
> continue. Now just a few years later my TDMA service is abruptly
> shattered, as though it were a terrorist attack.
>

"clifto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> From reading this froup, I get the impression that those who haven't
> moved are resisting the move, both because of low-priced packages which
> they have now but which Cingular won't match, and because of the need
> to toss out a perfectly good (and probably well-liked) phone and spend
> hundreds of dollars on a new phone.
>

Exactly right, at least in my particular case.

ATTWS made much of promising that all their customers would continue to
receive the same terms from the new Cingular as before. What they did not
tell us was that Cingular would try to force us into higher rate plans,
under the guise of a service upgrade. So much for the selling point of
permanent rate plans.

What is it to Cingular if people like me go to a GSM phone and continue to
pay the same rates we had from ATTWS on TDMA? ATTWS told me that TDMA would
be around for another 5-10 years, not to be used as leverage from Cingular
to take away the deals we were getting from ATTWS. I was an ATTWS customer
for several years, and I EARNED those perks. I paid my bill on time every
month, and I believe that I represented a good customer--and now I get the
same crappy price as some Johnny-Come-Lately that walks into a Cingular
store for the first time in his life!

Most of all, I resent the feeling of having been manipulated. I have only
one option: when I give up my current plan, I WON'T be staying with
Cingular. No way. I'm sure that Verizon will meet my very modest needs
just fine, and although it will cost me more than I pay now, at least I'll
have the satisfaction of knowing that I wasn't strong-armed into re-signing
with those evil people at Cingular.

Imagine that--a company that should have known better, and they have caused
so many of us to resent--no, hate--them!

**** Cingular!

Zeng wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 22:24:33 GMT, numeric <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Mij Adyaw wrote:
>>
>>>Why not get a GSM phone? No one uses TDMA anymore.
>>
>>I had no complaint with my ATT TDMA phone. Changing to GSM is not a
>>valid solution. Cingular must restore the TDMA coverage for ATT phones.
>>It wasn't a gradual loss of service, the loss occurred within one day
>>over thousands of square miles. I will not be manipulated by the
>>corporate **** heads at Cingular into buying a GSM phone; Hell will
>>freeze over first.
>
>
>
> I've been reading the discussion thread in this one...let's take it
> back to his original "problem" and think about figuring out why it's
> not working?
>
> Cingular has been doing TDMA turndowns in overlap markets (areas where
> both BLU & ORG TDMA signal is present) in various parts of the
> country. There should not be a void or large large areas of no TDMA
> coverage left after the turndown. The purpose is to eliminate
> redundant networks serving the *same* geographical area.
> Unfortunately, there have been some problems that have crept up in
> some cases.
>
> Let's try to help him since TDMA isn't going to sunset this year, or
> next...umm, let's keep the discussion to Q4 of '05. That'll keep this
> thread on track.
>
> Before I start, let me explain that when I use the words BLU and ORG
> to describe blue and orange we mean, Blue was former ATT Wireless
> Service and Orange is/ was Cingular.
> So, numeric, can you tell us if that's a Nokia phone that we might get
> you to put into 'field test mode?" Also, we'd want to enter into
> programming mode and see why you're apparently not roaming on
> Cingular--the other (ORG) signal. I'm not familiar with Florida, but
> since you mentioned that you're previously an AWS subscriber, then it
> may be that for you and many others, they will have to push an new
> IRDB download to your phone to permit you to roam onto the remaining
> TDMA network. It's probably already been done. This can be done in
> most cases with OTA (over-the-air). However, there may be some
> handsets that run into problems--worst case would be if something got
> corrupted and basically your handset may not be able to accept any
> future IRDBs. Then, one way to *satisfy* some customers is to offer to
> give them a free GSM phone, but we're back to your earlier point--good
> "old" plan, etc. But first they need to figure out what the cause is.
>
> I realize it must be frustrating to say the least, after dealing with
> the CSRs on the phone, but here's a couple of things that you might
> want to discuss / ask the store manager about. You need to find a
> former ORG store--one that wasn't BLU before. They may even have a
> working ORG TDMA phone in use--not for sale. Also, the store mngr can
> escalate to their managers. Here are some points:
> - ask the Mngr if their ORG TDMA customers are having any
> troubles?
> - I would think that they would have been slammed with all
> kinds of customer complaints from former BLU TDMA customers. Ask him
> / her what the current status is of the turndown.
> - Ask them how they've handled the other complaints from BLU?
> - Ask if they did an IRDB "push" out to these former subs
> (subscribers) to fix their issue? Did it work for most? You may be
> one of the few that I refer to above in 4th para. that it didn't.
>
> BTW, where or what is O.C in Florida?
>
> Zeng



I appreciate your attempt to help. I believe you might have a workable
solution; however I canceled my Cingular service. No cell phone is far
more desirable then being subject to Cingular's GSM upgrade demand, no
current service and deliberate distortions of fact.
BTW the phone is a Nokia 5165.
I believe the OP was located in Orange County, California, I am located
in Palm Beach County, Florida.

Mij Adyaw wrote:
> Why did you not upgrade to GSM? You probably could have even gotten a free
> phone. TDMA is an antiquated technology, it is time for you to "move-on".
> Don't you think so?
>

Antiquated technology?. No technology is antiquated if it works.
Amplitude modulation, for example, has been around for a very long time
over 80 years; but it still alive and well. Its used by aviation,
short wave and broadcast radio. If TDMA, by some twisted logic, is
considered antiquated, then clearly GSM will shortly be antiquated. I
will not "move-on" to every new technology toy, especially if it is a
personal mobile "wireless" gizmo.

In addition:

1. No Cingular GSM phone will fit in my Nokia CARK-91 hands free car
phone kit.

2. My TDMA phone works fine. The loss of service has been deliberately
caused by Cingular; not by my phone failure.

3. There is no "free" phone. A two year commitment and higher monthly
cost is the penalty for a Cingular GSM phone. No way shall I ever sign a
Cingular contract.