3 questions - lock/unlock - roam/no roam - contract/no contract

Hello. I very recently opened a personal Cingular Nationwide
plan/account. (I’m still in my 30 day “trial period”). I have an
unlocked, unbranded Razr V3 that I’m happy with overall. Making a
long story short, when I went to the Cingular store to sign up, the
sales folks kept insisting I should have the Cingular branded and locked
model of the phone. Seeing this as an obvious sales and marketing push
and having already found and purchased the unlocked phone, I declined to
buy their phone, which caused quite a flurry of comments and veiled
warnings from the sales staff.

I have three questions.

1.) Given that I’m on a national plan, does anyone know of any danger
of being hit with true “roaming” fees? They did assure me that being
charged with roaming fees is impossible due to the terms of the contract
and I tend to believe that. However, in the area I live, I’m catching a
Cell. One tower and the roaming indicator does activate on my phone
(being that it is unlocked and unbranded). These are supposed to be
shared within the GSM network but coming over from many years of
experience with Bell Atlantic/Verizon regional plans, I’m still quite
sensitized to roaming charges. I’ve also had no experience with
Cingular customer service in terms of their willingness to assist with
such situations.

2.) Does anyone know of any “REAL”, specific advantages of using a
Cingular branded and locked phone vs. the unlocked phone, say in terms
of “roaming databases”, better signal strength while traveling, etc?

I’m not using web, text, or video features. Those are not a concern.
I just want to be as certain as possible I have the best possible
phone features, signal, and can be comfortable with the knowledge that
I’m not running up roaming fees. I am only asking here because I need
to make a final decision before my 30 day trial period is up and my
contract locks in.

3.) When I purchased the unlocked phone (eBay – new) I was told that if
I provided my own phone, I would not have to go under contract. (About
Feb. or March or this year.) Due to illness and a death in the family,
I didn’t make it into the store until June. I was told I had to take at
least a 1 year contract. However, the computer also showed an option
for an 11 month “contract” but the sales person wouldn’t try it and
claimed to not know what that was. Does anyone know if I’m being given
the run around on this issue? As with most everyone, I’m not a fan of
contracts.

Thanks in advance for any advice, comments, and assistance.

John

---

› See More: 3 questions - lock/unlock - roam/no roam - contract/no contract

In article <[email protected]>,
JohnK <[email protected]> wrote:
>Hello. I very recently opened a personal Cingular Nationwide
>plan/account. (I’m still in my 30 day “trial period”). I have an
>unlocked, unbranded Razr V3 that I’m happy with overall. Making a
>long story short, when I went to the Cingular store to sign up, the
>sales folks kept insisting I should have the Cingular branded and locked
>model of the phone. Seeing this as an obvious sales and marketing push
>and having already found and purchased the unlocked phone, I declined to
>buy their phone, which caused quite a flurry of comments and veiled
>warnings from the sales staff.
>
>I have three questions.
>
>1.) Given that I’m on a national plan, does anyone know of any danger
>of being hit with true “roaming” fees? They did assure me that being
>charged with roaming fees is impossible due to the terms of the contract
>and I tend to believe that. However, in the area I live, I’m catching a
>Cell. One tower and the roaming indicator does activate on my phone
>(being that it is unlocked and unbranded). These are supposed to be
>shared within the GSM network but coming over from many years of
>experience with Bell Atlantic/Verizon regional plans, I’m still quite
>sensitized to roaming charges. I’ve also had no experience with
>Cingular customer service in terms of their willingness to assist with
>such situations.

As you surmise, the roaming indicator will come on any time you register
on a tower which is not "native" to your SIM's carrier ID. So if you are
assigned to a Cingular SID, then the roaming indicator will come on any
time you register on an AT&T tower. Even when using a Cingular phone,
Cingular's computers still tally calls made on these towers s "roaming"
on your bill, too, but they come out of your included minutes and are
not surcharged in any way. It is a book-keeping distinction that does not
affect your bill.

>2.) Does anyone know of any “REAL”, specific advantages of using a
>Cingular branded and locked phone vs. the unlocked phone, say in terms
>of “roaming databases”, better signal strength while traveling, etc?

The 64K ENS-capable SIM allows Cingular to direct you preferentially to
either AT&T or Cingular towers (viz. #1 above), ostensibly for
load-balancing. In certain locales where there are BOTH towers to choose
from, and one is stronger than another, then this choice may affect your
reception quality (for better or worse, depending). As I understand it,
this proces requires cooperating Cingular firmware in your phone. It also
causes cosmetic changes, such as the display of "AT&T Wireless" as "Cingular"
and suppression of the roaming indicator.

If you use a phone having non-Cingular firmware, the above will probably
not be possible.

>3.) When I purchased the unlocked phone (eBay – new) I was told that if
>I provided my own phone, I would not have to go under contract. (About
>Feb. or March or this year.) Due to illness and a death in the family,
>I didn’t make it into the store until June. I was told I had to take at
>least a 1 year contract. However, the computer also showed an option
>for an 11 month “contract” but the sales person wouldn’t try it and
>claimed to not know what that was. Does anyone know if I’m being given
>the run around on this issue? As with most everyone, I’m not a fan of
>contracts.

When I switched from AT&T TDMA to Cingular GSM in January, I did so at a
company store and was allowed to switch with no contract whatsoever.
Cingular reps certainly know about "customer provided and maintained
equipment" and should have allowed that option, which is the most appropriate
for someone bringing their own phone and not in need of a contract subsidy for
Cingular equipment. Perhaps their policy has changed again. Try another
store.

"JohnK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello. I very recently opened a personal Cingular Nationwide
> plan/account. (I’m still in my 30 day “trial period”). I have an
> unlocked, unbranded Razr V3 that I’m happy with overall. Making a
> long story short, when I went to the Cingular store to sign up, the
> sales folks kept insisting I should have the Cingular branded and locked
> model of the phone. Seeing this as an obvious sales and marketing push
> and having already found and purchased the unlocked phone, I declined to
> buy their phone, which caused quite a flurry of comments and veiled
> warnings from the sales staff.
>
> I have three questions.
>
> 1.) Given that I’m on a national plan, does anyone know of any danger
> of being hit with true “roaming” fees? They did assure me that being
> charged with roaming fees is impossible due to the terms of the contract
> and I tend to believe that. However, in the area I live, I’m catching a
> Cell. One tower and the roaming indicator does activate on my phone
> (being that it is unlocked and unbranded). These are supposed to be
> shared within the GSM network but coming over from many years of
> experience with Bell Atlantic/Verizon regional plans, I’m still quite
> sensitized to roaming charges. I’ve also had no experience with
> Cingular customer service in terms of their willingness to assist with
> such situations.
>
> 2.) Does anyone know of any “REAL”, specific advantages of using a
> Cingular branded and locked phone vs. the unlocked phone, say in terms
> of “roaming databases”, better signal strength while traveling, etc?
>
> I’m not using web, text, or video features. Those are not a concern.
> I just want to be as certain as possible I have the best possible
> phone features, signal, and can be comfortable with the knowledge that
> I’m not running up roaming fees. I am only asking here because I need
> to make a final decision before my 30 day trial period is up and my
> contract locks in.
>
> 3.) When I purchased the unlocked phone (eBay – new) I was told that if
> I provided my own phone, I would not have to go under contract. (About
> Feb. or March or this year.) Due to illness and a death in the family,
> I didn’t make it into the store until June. I was told I had to take at
> least a 1 year contract. However, the computer also showed an option
> for an 11 month “contract” but the sales person wouldn’t try it and
> claimed to not know what that was. Does anyone know if I’m being given
> the run around on this issue? As with most everyone, I’m not a fan of
> contracts.
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice, comments, and assistance.
>
> John
>
John,
I will provides answers in reverse:

3) The contracts are there to cover the subsidised price of the equipment.
If I buy a phone for $300.00 and sell it to you for $200.00 I want you
around for a while so I can recoup my investment. Did you get your service
at a company store or agent location? Agents usually get commission on
contracts. That is why most don't do upgrades. Call customer service and
advise them you want to be converted to no contract or you want to walk.

2) A branded and locked phone does only one thing. It is supposed to
guarantee that it is fully compatible with the providers network. A locked
phone will only work with the providers SIM card. Any other SIM will ask for
the subsidy (unlock) code. If you enter the subsidy code, the phone will
work with any card. A branded phone has special software for extra features
(like the web browser). With an unbranded phone you can access some of the
features by finding the proper information needed. One thing all newer
Cingular phones have is ENS capability. This with a 64K SIM card allows the
phone to work better over the original Cingular and the former ATT networks.
Having a 64K card in a generic phone does you nothing and can actually cause
a problem with some phones. Try putting one in a Motorola T720. It locks up
the phone book. The 'roaming database' is in the card, not the phone. Better
signal strength MAY be possible with an ENS capable phone and card, but not
guaranteed.

1) A Cingular national plan is a national plan is a national plan. If your
GSM phone has service and can make/receive calls, it is included in the plan
up to your included minutes.

Your only real issue is reversing the contract to a month to month deal. Get
that fixed and the rest of your basic phone questions are moot.

Jim

I have not tried this myself, but I was under the impression that if you had
your own phone, that you did not need a contract.

If they changed it, thats bull ****! They shouldn't do that.



"JohnK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello. I very recently opened a personal Cingular Nationwide
> plan/account. (I’m still in my 30 day “trial period”). I have an
> unlocked, unbranded Razr V3 that I’m happy with overall. Making a
> long story short, when I went to the Cingular store to sign up, the
> sales folks kept insisting I should have the Cingular branded and locked
> model of the phone. Seeing this as an obvious sales and marketing push
> and having already found and purchased the unlocked phone, I declined to
> buy their phone, which caused quite a flurry of comments and veiled
> warnings from the sales staff.
>
> I have three questions.
>
> 1.) Given that I’m on a national plan, does anyone know of any danger
> of being hit with true “roaming” fees? They did assure me that being
> charged with roaming fees is impossible due to the terms of the contract
> and I tend to believe that. However, in the area I live, I’m catching a
> Cell. One tower and the roaming indicator does activate on my phone
> (being that it is unlocked and unbranded). These are supposed to be
> shared within the GSM network but coming over from many years of
> experience with Bell Atlantic/Verizon regional plans, I’m still quite
> sensitized to roaming charges. I’ve also had no experience with
> Cingular customer service in terms of their willingness to assist with
> such situations.
>
> 2.) Does anyone know of any “REAL”, specific advantages of using a
> Cingular branded and locked phone vs. the unlocked phone, say in terms
> of “roaming databases”, better signal strength while traveling, etc?
>
> I’m not using web, text, or video features. Those are not a concern.
> I just want to be as certain as possible I have the best possible
> phone features, signal, and can be comfortable with the knowledge that
> I’m not running up roaming fees. I am only asking here because I need
> to make a final decision before my 30 day trial period is up and my
> contract locks in.
>
> 3.) When I purchased the unlocked phone (eBay – new) I was told that if
> I provided my own phone, I would not have to go under contract. (About
> Feb. or March or this year.) Due to illness and a death in the family,
> I didn’t make it into the store until June. I was told I had to take at
> least a 1 year contract. However, the computer also showed an option
> for an 11 month “contract” but the sales person wouldn’t try it and
> claimed to not know what that was. Does anyone know if I’m being given
> the run around on this issue? As with most everyone, I’m not a fan of
> contracts.
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice, comments, and assistance.
>
> John
>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Tue, 19 Jul 2005 08:52:40
-0400, "ja" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I have not tried this myself, but I was under the impression that if you had
>your own phone, that you did not need a contract.
>
>If they changed it,

They did -- you now need at least a 1-year contract.

>thats bull ****! They shouldn't do that.

Why not? It has a perfect right to do so, just as you have a right not to
accept it.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

I hate that whole PRL kludge that Verizon uses. With GSM, roaming is
controlled by the network and I'm pretty sure that if you are able to
access AT&T or T-Mobile to make a call, then you are not roaming.

Ignore the roaming indicator. I have two foreign RAZRs and the
triangle is a setting that can be turned on or off with software. All
it does is tell you if you are on a different network which is true
for now when crossing between Cingular/AT&T.

If you don't have a branded RAZR, you will have to do all the browser
settings manually. Not a problem according to your message.

One other big difference is that the Cingular branded RAZRs have ENS
which is supposed to enhance network handling. I haven't found it to
be a problem without it and I am in a patchwork of sites with all
three networks.

Since phones tend to hang on to home systems over others you may
experience handoff problems. If you do, you can't really call them to
complain since ENS should help prevent that when trying to hand off
from a crap Cingular site to a stronger T-Mobile site.


>"JohnK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Hello. I very recently opened a personal Cingular Nationwide
>> plan/account. (I’m still in my 30 day “trial period”). I have an
>> unlocked, unbranded Razr V3 that I’m happy with overall. Making a
>> long story short, when I went to the Cingular store to sign up, the
>> sales folks kept insisting I should have the Cingular branded and locked
>> model of the phone. Seeing this as an obvious sales and marketing push
>> and having already found and purchased the unlocked phone, I declined to
>> buy their phone, which caused quite a flurry of comments and veiled
>> warnings from the sales staff.
>>
>> I have three questions.
>>
>> 1.) Given that I’m on a national plan, does anyone know of any danger
>> of being hit with true “roaming” fees? They did assure me that being
>> charged with roaming fees is impossible due to the terms of the contract
>> and I tend to believe that. However, in the area I live, I’m catching a
>> Cell. One tower and the roaming indicator does activate on my phone
>> (being that it is unlocked and unbranded). These are supposed to be
>> shared within the GSM network but coming over from many years of
>> experience with Bell Atlantic/Verizon regional plans, I’m still quite
>> sensitized to roaming charges. I’ve also had no experience with
>> Cingular customer service in terms of their willingness to assist with
>> such situations.
>>
>> 2.) Does anyone know of any “REAL”, specific advantages of using a
>> Cingular branded and locked phone vs. the unlocked phone, say in terms
>> of “roaming databases”, better signal strength while traveling, etc?
>>
>> I’m not using web, text, or video features. Those are not a concern.
>> I just want to be as certain as possible I have the best possible
>> phone features, signal, and can be comfortable with the knowledge that
>> I’m not running up roaming fees. I am only asking here because I need
>> to make a final decision before my 30 day trial period is up and my
>> contract locks in.
>>
>> 3.) When I purchased the unlocked phone (eBay – new) I was told that if
>> I provided my own phone, I would not have to go under contract. (About
>> Feb. or March or this year.) Due to illness and a death in the family,
>> I didn’t make it into the store until June. I was told I had to take at
>> least a 1 year contract. However, the computer also showed an option
>> for an 11 month “contract” but the sales person wouldn’t try it and
>> claimed to not know what that was. Does anyone know if I’m being given
>> the run around on this issue? As with most everyone, I’m not a fan of
>> contracts.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any advice, comments, and assistance.
>>
>> John
>>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:43:04
-0400, [email protected] wrote:

>I hate that whole PRL kludge that Verizon uses. With GSM, roaming is
>controlled by the network

And the handset. PRL and GSM roaming are fairly similar.

>and I'm pretty sure that if you are able to
>access AT&T or T-Mobile to make a call, then you are not roaming.

You may well be roaming, albeit without charge.

>One other big difference is that the Cingular branded RAZRs have ENS
>which is supposed to enhance network handling. ...

ENS only allows the Home network to be changed manually OTA (over the air).

>Since phones tend to hang on to home systems over others you may
>experience handoff problems.

GSM handsets (even with ENS) always prefer a "usable" Home network, but that
doesn't necessarily mean handoff problems.

>If you do, you can't really call them to
>complain since ENS should help prevent that when trying to hand off
>from a crap Cingular site to a stronger T-Mobile site.

ENS would have no effect on that.

See my posted FAQ on ENS.

>>"JohnK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> Hello. I very recently opened a personal Cingular Nationwide
>>> plan/account. (I’m still in my 30 day “trial period”). I have an
>>> unlocked, unbranded Razr V3 that I’m happy with overall. Making a
>>> long story short, when I went to the Cingular store to sign up, the
>>> sales folks kept insisting I should have the Cingular branded and locked
>>> model of the phone. Seeing this as an obvious sales and marketing push
>>> and having already found and purchased the unlocked phone, I declined to
>>> buy their phone, which caused quite a flurry of comments and veiled
>>> warnings from the sales staff.
>>>
>>> I have three questions.
>>>
>>> 1.) Given that I’m on a national plan, does anyone know of any danger
>>> of being hit with true “roaming” fees? They did assure me that being
>>> charged with roaming fees is impossible due to the terms of the contract
>>> and I tend to believe that. However, in the area I live, I’m catching a
>>> Cell. One tower and the roaming indicator does activate on my phone
>>> (being that it is unlocked and unbranded). These are supposed to be
>>> shared within the GSM network but coming over from many years of
>>> experience with Bell Atlantic/Verizon regional plans, I’m still quite
>>> sensitized to roaming charges. I’ve also had no experience with
>>> Cingular customer service in terms of their willingness to assist with
>>> such situations.
>>>
>>> 2.) Does anyone know of any “REAL”, specific advantages of using a
>>> Cingular branded and locked phone vs. the unlocked phone, say in terms
>>> of “roaming databases”, better signal strength while traveling, etc?
>>>
>>> I’m not using web, text, or video features. Those are not a concern.
>>> I just want to be as certain as possible I have the best possible
>>> phone features, signal, and can be comfortable with the knowledge that
>>> I’m not running up roaming fees. I am only asking here because I need
>>> to make a final decision before my 30 day trial period is up and my
>>> contract locks in.
>>>
>>> 3.) When I purchased the unlocked phone (eBay – new) I was told that if
>>> I provided my own phone, I would not have to go under contract. (About
>>> Feb. or March or this year.) Due to illness and a death in the family,
>>> I didn’t make it into the store until June. I was told I had to take at
>>> least a 1 year contract. However, the computer also showed an option
>>> for an 11 month “contract” but the sales person wouldn’t try it and
>>> claimed to not know what that was. Does anyone know if I’m being given
>>> the run around on this issue? As with most everyone, I’m not a fan of
>>> contracts.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any advice, comments, and assistance.
>>>
>>> John
>>>

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

I hate posting bad information. Sorry.

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 23:02:45 GMT, John Navas
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
>In <[email protected]> on Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:43:04
>-0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>I hate that whole PRL kludge that Verizon uses. With GSM, roaming is
>>controlled by the network
>
>And the handset. PRL and GSM roaming are fairly similar.
>
>>and I'm pretty sure that if you are able to
>>access AT&T or T-Mobile to make a call, then you are not roaming.
>
>You may well be roaming, albeit without charge.
>
>>One other big difference is that the Cingular branded RAZRs have ENS
>>which is supposed to enhance network handling. ...
>
>ENS only allows the Home network to be changed manually OTA (over the air).
>
>>Since phones tend to hang on to home systems over others you may
>>experience handoff problems.
>
>GSM handsets (even with ENS) always prefer a "usable" Home network, but that
>doesn't necessarily mean handoff problems.
>
>>If you do, you can't really call them to
>>complain since ENS should help prevent that when trying to hand off
>>from a crap Cingular site to a stronger T-Mobile site.
>
>ENS would have no effect on that.
>
>See my posted FAQ on ENS.
>