So how good/bad is Cingular?

I've been a Verizon customer for several years and while the service is
pretty good, they have been playing an increasingly hardball version of
"take-away" the last year or so. No more free detail billing, no more free
calls to voicemail, soon no free holidays, increasing costs for various
auxiliary services/text messaging, no more $50 swap-out for a DOA phone off
warranty, etc.

I've been thinking about switching to Cingular but am concerned about the
high number of complaints (highest among all cell carriers according to a
recent FCC complaint data), and many independent reviews saying there are a
higher percentage of dropped calls, busy circuits, dead spots in too many
markets compared to the other carriers.

So what say you all-- happy or not?

X

---

› See More: So how good/bad is Cingular?

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:41:16 -0400,
"Expert Witness" <x@nospamcourt> wrote:

>I've been a Verizon customer for several years and while the service is
>pretty good, they have been playing an increasingly hardball version of
>"take-away" the last year or so. No more free detail billing, no more free
>calls to voicemail, soon no free holidays, increasing costs for various
>auxiliary services/text messaging, no more $50 swap-out for a DOA phone off
>warranty, etc.
>
>I've been thinking about switching to Cingular but am concerned about the
>high number of complaints (highest among all cell carriers according to a
>recent FCC complaint data), and many independent reviews saying there are a
>higher percentage of dropped calls, busy circuits, dead spots in too many
>markets compared to the other carriers.
>
>So what say you all-- happy or not?

"Google is your friend." That way you won't have to ask the same question
over again. ;-)

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

It's not so much that Cingular sucks, it's that their customer service
sucks. Before you buy, you need to know exactly what calling plan and
equipment will suit your needs. The Cingular sales representative is no
help. His only goal is to sell the plan/equipment with the highest profit
margin.

From my own personal experience, I think dropped calls and dead spots have a
lot to do with the phone, rather than the network. As I said in another
posting where I got flamed, I'm in a relatively rare situation where I can
test two Nokia 3100 phones side by side on the Cingular network. One is a
850/1900 phone, the other is a 900/1800/1900 phone.

One moron actually seemed to think that you "may" get different reception
with two such phone. My dear cupcake, you do get different reception. It's
night and day.







"Expert Witness" <x@nospamcourt> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've been a Verizon customer for several years and while the service is
> pretty good, they have been playing an increasingly hardball version of
> "take-away" the last year or so. No more free detail billing, no more free
> calls to voicemail, soon no free holidays, increasing costs for various
> auxiliary services/text messaging, no more $50 swap-out for a DOA phone
> off warranty, etc.
>
> I've been thinking about switching to Cingular but am concerned about the
> high number of complaints (highest among all cell carriers according to a
> recent FCC complaint data), and many independent reviews saying there are
> a higher percentage of dropped calls, busy circuits, dead spots in too
> many markets compared to the other carriers.
>
> So what say you all-- happy or not?
>
> X
>

"Expert Witness" <x@nospamcourt> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've been a Verizon customer for several years and while the service is
> pretty good, they have been playing an increasingly hardball version of
> "take-away" the last year or so. No more free detail billing, no more free
> calls to voicemail, soon no free holidays, increasing costs for various
> auxiliary services/text messaging, no more $50 swap-out for a DOA phone
> off warranty, etc.
>
> I've been thinking about switching to Cingular but am concerned about the
> high number of complaints (highest among all cell carriers according to a
> recent FCC complaint data), and many independent reviews saying there are
> a higher percentage of dropped calls, busy circuits, dead spots in too
> many markets compared to the other carriers.
>
> So what say you all-- happy or not?
>
> X

I switched from Verizon to a Cingular Nation GSM plan. I can't possibly be
happier. Cingular has better coverage for less money. Also, I don't put up
with constant billing errors like I had to deal with while I was a Verizon
customer. -Dave

Works fine in Raleigh, nc
"Expert Witness" <x@nospamcourt> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've been a Verizon customer for several years and while the service is
> pretty good, they have been playing an increasingly hardball version of
> "take-away" the last year or so. No more free detail billing, no more free
> calls to voicemail, soon no free holidays, increasing costs for various
> auxiliary services/text messaging, no more $50 swap-out for a DOA phone
> off warranty, etc.
>
> I've been thinking about switching to Cingular but am concerned about the
> high number of complaints (highest among all cell carriers according to a
> recent FCC complaint data), and many independent reviews saying there are
> a higher percentage of dropped calls, busy circuits, dead spots in too
> many markets compared to the other carriers.
>
> So what say you all-- happy or not?
>
> X
>

Per Expert Witness:
>I've been thinking about switching to Cingular but am concerned about the
>high number of complaints ... and many independent reviews saying there are a
>higher percentage of dropped calls, busy circuits, dead spots in too many
>markets compared to the other carriers.

From personal experience and reading other threads, I think which carrier works
best depends a lot on where you are.

I'm in Southeastern Penna (Paoli, about 23 miles west of Phila...) and recently
switched from Cingular to tMobile. For my use, there's no comparison in signal
strength/reliability. Cingular was head and shoulders above tMobile. Under
Cingular, I didn't even have the concept of zero bars. With tMobile, it's a
daily/hourly occurrance.

OTOH, Cingular's customer interface was miserable and tMobile's isn't all that
bad so far.

OTOOH, with Cingular I was on TDMA and with tMobile I'm on GSM.

OTOOOH, I've heard that there's some technical consideration with the two
company's signal frequency. Something about shorter wavelengths (Cingular)
having better building penetration.

--
PeteCresswell

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 22 Jul 2005 05:08:54 -0500,
"BBB" <[email protected]> wrote:

>It's not so much that Cingular sucks, it's that their customer service
>sucks. Before you buy, you need to know exactly what calling plan and
>equipment will suit your needs. The Cingular sales representative is no
>help. His only goal is to sell the plan/equipment with the highest profit
>margin.

That's not been my experience, which is that the great majority of Cingular
Customer Service folks genuinely try to be helpful. Of course much depends on
how you approach them.

>From my own personal experience, I think dropped calls and dead spots have a
>lot to do with the phone, rather than the network. As I said in another
>posting where I got flamed, I'm in a relatively rare situation where I can
>test two Nokia 3100 phones side by side on the Cingular network. One is a
>850/1900 phone, the other is a 900/1800/1900 phone.

Which is why you see problems. Cingular sells only 850/1900 mobiles, not
900/1800/1900 mobiles.

>One moron actually seemed to think that you "may" get different reception
>with two such phone. My dear cupcake, you do get different reception. It's
>night and day.

"Moron" here. If you are in a 1900-only area, then your two mobiles will get
*exactly* the same coverage and reception. And Cingular subscribers that
stick with Cingular-branded mobiles, or who choose their mobiles with more
care, won't see any band problems in any event. Apology accepted.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 22 Jul 2005 08:10:29
-0700, "(PeteCresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote:

>OTOOOH, I've heard that there's some technical consideration with the two
>company's signal frequency. Something about shorter wavelengths (Cingular)
>having better building penetration.

Longer, but it's not that simple, since shorter wavelengths penetrate openings
(e.g., windows) better. In other words, mostly another Internet Myth.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Expert Witness wrote:

> I've been thinking about switching to Cingular but am concerned about the
> high number of complaints (highest among all cell carriers according to a
> recent FCC complaint data), and many independent reviews saying there are a
> higher percentage of dropped calls, busy circuits, dead spots in too many
> markets compared to the other carriers.
>
> So what say you all-- happy or not?


I switched over from Sprint. I've been quite happy so far.

I too was originally scared away by the high number of complaints, but
I'm beginning to think that the hgh number is due to the fact that they
have the most customers, and percentaage wise, that's going to result in
a proportionately high number of disatissfied customers. I'm betting
that if you take the percentage of complainers on each carrier, rather
than a straight number, the numbers are likely to even out.

In other words: all the carriers suck to an extent, in their own ways.
The challenge is finding the carrier that sucks the least in the areas
that are most important to you.



--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

> Which is why you see problems. Cingular sells only 850/1900 mobiles,
not
> 900/1800/1900 mobiles.
>

I am not very technical, but I want to follow up on this. I have a
Motorola V400. I thought it was a 4-band phone. Am I incorrect? I as
because I am planning a trip to Latin America, and I want to be able to
use the phone down there. I have determined that the phone is unlocked.

Ted B. wrote:
> I switched from Verizon to a Cingular Nation GSM plan. I can't possibly be
> happier. Cingular has better coverage for less money. Also, I don't put up
> with constant billing errors like I had to deal with while I was a Verizon
> customer. -Dave
>
>

I'm switching to Cingular from Verizon but not because of billing
errors. The fact of the matter is that there will always be billing
errors for all carriers because there is a significant portion of the
customer base who either doesn't check for errors or doesn't care. Even
when they lose a suit, the company is still way ahead financially.

I have two stories. The first is from personal experience. Verizon made
a $1500 billing error on my bill. It took 2 months and many hours on the
phone to get it corrected.

The second story is from a friend. He's on a Verizon family plan. The
father is in charge of the plan and everything. My friend was told that
the plan has unlimited nights and weekends. I suspect that they either
aren't on unlimited nights and weekends or they've had several huge
billing errors. The father automatically blames the other members of the
family instead of checking to see if it's Verizon's error.

> I'm switching to Cingular from Verizon but not because of billing
> errors. The fact of the matter is that there will always be billing errors
> for all carriers because there is a significant portion of the customer
> base who either doesn't check for errors or doesn't care. Even when they
> lose a suit, the company is still way ahead financially.
>
> I have two stories. The first is from personal experience. Verizon made a
> $1500 billing error on my bill. It took 2 months and many hours on the
> phone to get it corrected.
>
> The second story is from a friend. He's on a Verizon family plan. The
> father is in charge of the plan and everything. My friend was told that
> the plan has unlimited nights and weekends. I suspect that they either
> aren't on unlimited nights and weekends or they've had several huge
> billing errors. The father automatically blames the other members of the
> family instead of checking to see if it's Verizon's error.

Well now for my story. I had -delayed- billing errors while I was with
Verizon. That is, (for example) calls in January were billed in May,
causing overage charges IN MAY, while not all of January's anytime minutes
(when the calls were actually made) were used. All calls were made on the
Verizon network, within my home area. I wasn't "roaming" and wasn't out of
my home area, either. Verizon admitted that the error was on their end.
They refused to correct it, claiming (and I quote), "but all carriers do
that". If all carriers do that, it is odd that Verizon is the ONLY carrier
I've had that problem with, out of the half dozen I've tried. How it worked
(for example):

January, use 498 anytime minutes (of 500 included plan anytime minutes), get
detailled billing for 210 minutes. Note that there are gobs of "anytime"
minutes that were NOT USED in January.

May, use 450 minutes, get detailled billing for 738 minutes, INCLUDING 238
minutes of OVERAGE charges for 288 minutes of calls that were made IN
JANUARY. (ouch!)

This happened a few times. Each time, Verizon refused to correct their
error.

After what you wrote, I'm wondering how many people got hit with these
overage charges from Verizon and weren't observant enough to realize that
the overage charges were from previous months when not all of their anytime
minutes were used?

In any case, since Verizon wasn't willing to correct the error, I corrected
it for them. I'm now a Cingular customer, so Verizon isn't making any more
billing errors on my cell phone bill. See how easy that was? -Dave

Ted B. wrote:
>> I'm switching to Cingular from Verizon but not because of billing
>> errors. The fact of the matter is that there will always be billing errors
>> for all carriers because there is a significant portion of the customer
>> base who either doesn't check for errors or doesn't care. Even when they
>> lose a suit, the company is still way ahead financially.
>>
>> I have two stories. The first is from personal experience. Verizon made a
>> $1500 billing error on my bill. It took 2 months and many hours on the
>> phone to get it corrected.
>>
>> The second story is from a friend. He's on a Verizon family plan. The
>> father is in charge of the plan and everything. My friend was told that
>> the plan has unlimited nights and weekends. I suspect that they either
>> aren't on unlimited nights and weekends or they've had several huge
>> billing errors. The father automatically blames the other members of the
>> family instead of checking to see if it's Verizon's error.
>
> Well now for my story. I had -delayed- billing errors while I was with
> Verizon. That is, (for example) calls in January were billed in May,
> causing overage charges IN MAY, while not all of January's anytime minutes
> (when the calls were actually made) were used. All calls were made on the
> Verizon network, within my home area. I wasn't "roaming" and wasn't out of
> my home area, either. Verizon admitted that the error was on their end.
> They refused to correct it, claiming (and I quote), "but all carriers do
> that". If all carriers do that, it is odd that Verizon is the ONLY carrier
> I've had that problem with, out of the half dozen I've tried. How it worked
> (for example):
>
> January, use 498 anytime minutes (of 500 included plan anytime minutes), get
> detailled billing for 210 minutes. Note that there are gobs of "anytime"
> minutes that were NOT USED in January.
>
> May, use 450 minutes, get detailled billing for 738 minutes, INCLUDING 238
> minutes of OVERAGE charges for 288 minutes of calls that were made IN
> JANUARY. (ouch!)
>
> This happened a few times. Each time, Verizon refused to correct their
> error.
>
> After what you wrote, I'm wondering how many people got hit with these
> overage charges from Verizon and weren't observant enough to realize that
> the overage charges were from previous months when not all of their anytime
> minutes were used?
>
> In any case, since Verizon wasn't willing to correct the error, I corrected
> it for them. I'm now a Cingular customer, so Verizon isn't making any more
> billing errors on my cell phone bill. See how easy that was? -Dave
>
>

Not sure it is an easy solution! I've found that on a regular basis I
have to contact (either by phone or email) some company for a credit. If
I don't get the credit, I contact them again. I've only given up once
because it didn't seem like I would get the credit. However, after that
time, I tried 5 times for one credit and finally got the credit.

Every company makes billing errors. I'm sure Cingular will be no
different. The more they can get away with it (legal fees are less than
what they steal from customers) the more they will continue to do it.
Take the credit card company Providian. They get sued over and over
again but never change their practices.

"Ted B." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Expert Witness" <x@nospamcourt> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I've been a Verizon customer for several years and while the service is
>> pretty good, they have been playing an increasingly hardball version of
>> "take-away" the last year or so. No more free detail billing, no more
>> free calls to voicemail, soon no free holidays, increasing costs for
>> various auxiliary services/text messaging, no more $50 swap-out for a DOA
>> phone off warranty, etc.
>>
>> I've been thinking about switching to Cingular but am concerned about the
>> high number of complaints (highest among all cell carriers according to a
>> recent FCC complaint data), and many independent reviews saying there are
>> a higher percentage of dropped calls, busy circuits, dead spots in too
>> many markets compared to the other carriers.
>>
>> So what say you all-- happy or not?
>>
>> X
>
> I switched from Verizon to a Cingular Nation GSM plan. I can't possibly
> be happier. Cingular has better coverage for less money. Also, I don't
> put up with constant billing errors like I had to deal with while I was a
> Verizon customer. -Dave

I don't know Dave. I switched to Cingular and I have some intense billing
problems. They arbitrarily drop a dollop of charges even they cannot
explain onto my monthly and then threaten to cancel me if I don't pay them.
Talk about some confusing and frightening stuff. I've never had that with
my previous carriers and I've used cells for 15 years.

Reception is not that great with GSM for me. I am constantly asking people
to repeat themselves. They sound like they are talking through a juice
harp. Analog or TDMA was ALOT better for me. No comparision. I DO like
the long standby times and rollover minutes, but then again, I probably need
them to re-call the people dropped during important calls. Am I totally
pissed at them??? No because I figure they are building and improving a
very large network and I hope to see constant improvement over the next 6
months. BUT, I do expect to see improvement. If not, I will really push my
consumer rights.

Selling and billing.................... Selling and
billing................... Selling and billing.................you better
hope you only taste these two operations and not need to go through customer
service for problems. It could be an easy fix or a deep maze.
>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:11:39 -0400, "Buck
Turgidson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Which is why you see problems. Cingular sells only 850/1900 mobiles,
>> not 900/1800/1900 mobiles.
>
>I am not very technical, but I want to follow up on this. I have a
>Motorola V400. I thought it was a 4-band phone. Am I incorrect? I as
>because I am planning a trip to Latin America, and I want to be able to
>use the phone down there. I have determined that the phone is unlocked.

My point, which I can now see wasn't all that clear (sorry), was that Cingular
only sells mobiles with the GSM 850 and GSM 1900 bands, no matter what other
GSM bands (900 and/or 1800) may also included.

So yes, Cingular does sell quad-band (850/900/1800/1900) mobiles (e.g.,
Motorola V400), along with dual-band (850/1900) mobiles (e.g., Samsung X427M)
and tri-band (850/1800/1900) mobiles (e.g., Audiovox SMT 5600).

What Cingular doesn't sell are dual-band or tri-band mobiles that lack the GSM
850 band (i.e., 900/1800/1900) like the Sony Ericsson Z600.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>