Cingular Switching from GSM a Rumor?

Hi, I'm a newbie to Cingular (as of 9/9) and to this group. I just found a
disturbing link concerning Cingular's coverage. Personally to me, it sounds
like either sour grapes over some former unresolved dispute with the company
or online sabotage from a competitor, but if true, this sounds like real bad
news. Here's the link (scroll to bottom) and an highlight with the
disturbing part:

http://www.epinions.com/elec-Comm-Mo...splay_~reviews
"be aware that since they took over AT&T, who was really one of the two very
best providers in the US, they have started the process of taking and
converting the AT&T GSM towers to their own signal type. This came directly
from a customer service rep who warned me at first that the conversation
might be recorded, and she had to use caution in what she was able to
disclose. After telling me about the tower conversions, she cautiously
indicated that this was happening VERY quickly and inside of a few months my
current GSM would be nothing but trash!"

The post was dated 9/11/05. I switched from Sprint which uses CDMA and I
have to admit that I don't know an whole lot about GSM, but from reading
this group for two weeks I thought Cingular's "own signal type" *was* GSM.
This e-pinions post frankly sounds like B.S. to me, but if anyone knows
anything, could you please straighten this out? Thanks.

---

› See More: Cingular Switching from GSM a Rumor?

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:29:21 UTC, "Steve Moran"
<[email protected]> wrote:

There isn't very much info in that posting, but, to give the best face
on it.

There are 2 main frequency bands used by GSM providers in the US.
1900, and 850.

Add to this that, in many markets, after the merger Cingular may have
gained either 850 or 1900 towers from AT&T, while owning the other.
In the interest of consolidation, they may not continue to provide
both. If the old phone didn't support both 850 and 1900, and they
decide to sell off one of those for some reason in some market, then
the phone "may" not suffice for that market anymore.

There are plans for Cingular to upgrade to new technology in the
future. Some markets already have it. But it is mainly for the high
speed data.

"Kevin K" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:KIRoJuEXw9g9-pn2-rVKUUsDVBILO@ecs...
> On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:29:21 UTC, "Steve Moran"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> There isn't very much info in that posting, but, to give the best face
> on it.
>
> There are 2 main frequency bands used by GSM providers in the US.
> 1900, and 850.
>
> Add to this that, in many markets, after the merger Cingular may have
> gained either 850 or 1900 towers from AT&T, while owning the other.
> In the interest of consolidation, they may not continue to provide
> both. If the old phone didn't support both 850 and 1900, and they
> decide to sell off one of those for some reason in some market, then
> the phone "may" not suffice for that market anymore.
>
> There are plans for Cingular to upgrade to new technology in the
> future. Some markets already have it. But it is mainly for the high
> speed data.

Thanks Kevin. My new phone supports GSM 850/900/1800/1900, so I guess that's
something I won't really be having to worry about. I appreciate your
expertise.

..
"Steve Moran" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Kevin K" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:KIRoJuEXw9g9-pn2-rVKUUsDVBILO@ecs...
> > On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:29:21 UTC, "Steve Moran"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > There isn't very much info in that posting, but, to give the best face
> > on it.
> >
> > There are 2 main frequency bands used by GSM providers in the US.
> > 1900, and 850.
> >
> > Add to this that, in many markets, after the merger Cingular may have
> > gained either 850 or 1900 towers from AT&T, while owning the other.
> > In the interest of consolidation, they may not continue to provide
> > both. If the old phone didn't support both 850 and 1900, and they
> > decide to sell off one of those for some reason in some market, then
> > the phone "may" not suffice for that market anymore.
> >
> > There are plans for Cingular to upgrade to new technology in the
> > future. Some markets already have it. But it is mainly for the high
> > speed data.
>
> Thanks Kevin. My new phone supports GSM 850/900/1800/1900, so I guess
that's
> something I won't really be having to worry about. I appreciate your
> expertise.
>
>

Sorry about previous.

Cingular is working on "eventually" removing all of the legacy "AT&T
Wireless" Towers and getting all of the customers on the "Cingular" towers
and frequencies.

But remember that with aprox. 20+ million AT&T Wireless customers this is
not something that is happening overnight.

As for areas with multiple frequencies I think that it is safe to say that
if you live in an area that has both 1900 and 850 then you can expect to
lose one of those frequencies (850) so they do not overlap.

But I seriously doubt that Cingular would do anything to reduce the quality
of service in any area without a better alternative.


"Cliff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> .
> "Steve Moran" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Kevin K" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:KIRoJuEXw9g9-pn2-rVKUUsDVBILO@ecs...
> > > On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:29:21 UTC, "Steve Moran"
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > There isn't very much info in that posting, but, to give the best face
> > > on it.
> > >
> > > There are 2 main frequency bands used by GSM providers in the US.
> > > 1900, and 850.
> > >
> > > Add to this that, in many markets, after the merger Cingular may have
> > > gained either 850 or 1900 towers from AT&T, while owning the other.
> > > In the interest of consolidation, they may not continue to provide
> > > both. If the old phone didn't support both 850 and 1900, and they
> > > decide to sell off one of those for some reason in some market, then
> > > the phone "may" not suffice for that market anymore.
> > >
> > > There are plans for Cingular to upgrade to new technology in the
> > > future. Some markets already have it. But it is mainly for the high
> > > speed data.
> >
> > Thanks Kevin. My new phone supports GSM 850/900/1800/1900, so I guess
> that's
> > something I won't really be having to worry about. I appreciate your
> > expertise.
> >
> >
>
>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:29:21 -0400, "Steve
Moran" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Hi, I'm a newbie to Cingular (as of 9/9) and to this group. I just found a
>disturbing link concerning Cingular's coverage. Personally to me, it sounds
>like either sour grapes over some former unresolved dispute with the company
>or online sabotage from a competitor, but if true, this sounds like real bad
>news. Here's the link (scroll to bottom) and an highlight with the
>disturbing part:
>
>http://www.epinions.com/elec-Comm-Mo...splay_~reviews
>"be aware that since they took over AT&T, who was really one of the two very
>best providers in the US, they have started the process of taking and
>converting the AT&T GSM towers to their own signal type. This came directly
>from a customer service rep who warned me at first that the conversation
>might be recorded, and she had to use caution in what she was able to
>disclose. After telling me about the tower conversions, she cautiously
>indicated that this was happening VERY quickly and inside of a few months my
>current GSM would be nothing but trash!"
>
>The post was dated 9/11/05. I switched from Sprint which uses CDMA and I
>have to admit that I don't know an whole lot about GSM, but from reading
>this group for two weeks I thought Cingular's "own signal type" *was* GSM.
>This e-pinions post frankly sounds like B.S. to me, but if anyone knows
>anything, could you please straighten this out? Thanks.

It's utter nonsense.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Wed, 14 Sep 2005 03:59:04
GMT, "Cliff" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Cingular is working on "eventually" removing all of the legacy "AT&T
>Wireless" Towers and getting all of the customers on the "Cingular" towers
>and frequencies.

Cingular is actually working on "eventually" integrating both networks,
decommissioning towers only when there is unnecessary overlap.

>As for areas with multiple frequencies I think that it is safe to say that
>if you live in an area that has both 1900 and 850 then you can expect to
>lose one of those frequencies (850) so they do not overlap.

Not true.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

I am not a cell technology expert and don't know all the nitty gritty
details but I had a Cingular network engineer visit my building yesterday.
This all started because of the area my employer is in has had terrible
signal strength for years and I started inquiring about in building
repeaters. The repeater company I contacted is a Cingular business partner
and they knew of some changes going on in my area so they deferred selling
me anything until Cingular had a chance to speak up. A local Cingular
engineer got in touch with me and said there were definite plans to merge
some blue towers very soon and would like to take a blue phone and an orange
one around my bldg and survey what we should see once the tower work was
complete. Took a few weeks for him to show up but he's a busy dude. Anway,
the blue phone maintained a perfect signal all the way down to the middle of
our Data Center while the orange phone's signal basically went dead (this is
what we've been living with). He explained that there was a tower about 2
miles away that had a straight shot to us and that at the end of this month
(give or take a week) they should have all the towers in my county switched
over and our building should get the signal quality of that blue phone after
the switch. He did say that they were moving everything to the "orange"
technology, whatever that meant, but I'm sure you guru's know.

"Cliff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sorry about previous.
>
> Cingular is working on "eventually" removing all of the legacy "AT&T
> Wireless" Towers and getting all of the customers on the "Cingular" towers
> and frequencies.
>
> But remember that with aprox. 20+ million AT&T Wireless customers this is
> not something that is happening overnight.
>
> As for areas with multiple frequencies I think that it is safe to say that
> if you live in an area that has both 1900 and 850 then you can expect to
> lose one of those frequencies (850) so they do not overlap.
>
> But I seriously doubt that Cingular would do anything to reduce the
> quality
> of service in any area without a better alternative.
>
>
> "Cliff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> .
>> "Steve Moran" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > "Kevin K" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:KIRoJuEXw9g9-pn2-rVKUUsDVBILO@ecs...
>> > > On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:29:21 UTC, "Steve Moran"
>> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > There isn't very much info in that posting, but, to give the best
>> > > face
>> > > on it.
>> > >
>> > > There are 2 main frequency bands used by GSM providers in the US.
>> > > 1900, and 850.
>> > >
>> > > Add to this that, in many markets, after the merger Cingular may have
>> > > gained either 850 or 1900 towers from AT&T, while owning the other.
>> > > In the interest of consolidation, they may not continue to provide
>> > > both. If the old phone didn't support both 850 and 1900, and they
>> > > decide to sell off one of those for some reason in some market, then
>> > > the phone "may" not suffice for that market anymore.
>> > >
>> > > There are plans for Cingular to upgrade to new technology in the
>> > > future. Some markets already have it. But it is mainly for the high
>> > > speed data.
>> >
>> > Thanks Kevin. My new phone supports GSM 850/900/1800/1900, so I guess
>> that's
>> > something I won't really be having to worry about. I appreciate your
>> > expertise.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

Steve Moran wrote:
> Hi, I'm a newbie to Cingular (as of 9/9) and to this group. I just found a
> disturbing link concerning Cingular's coverage. Personally to me, it sounds
> like either sour grapes over some former unresolved dispute with the company

Typically, places like ePinions and ripoffreport.com are *filled* sour
grapes and unfulfilled gripes, some truthful, many heavily embellished
and often rife with conspiracy theories and outright false info. That's
just the nature of the beast.

> http://www.epinions.com/elec-Comm-Mo...splay_~reviews
> "be aware that since they took over AT&T, who was really one of the two very
> best providers in the US,

Well, we already know where this compaint is headed. AT&T Wireless
ended its life with the highest number of FCC complaints in the
industry. It was many things, but the "very best" it most certainly was
not.

> they have started the process of taking and
> converting the AT&T GSM towers to their own signal type.

....and Cingular's signal type happens to be... *drumroll* GSM!

And signalling formats aside, what did this person expect? It's
ludicrous for a wireless carrier to buy a network and then attempt to
run it separately without any effort to integrate the two, gaining
little to no benefit of synergy from that merger at all (but don't tell
Sprint that). There IS network integration in progress, but a lot of
this is helped by the fact that both Cingualr and AT&T had similar
networks with similar signalling formats (GSM) and a similar upward
migration path (ultimately to WCDMA and HSPDA).


> This came directly
> from a customer service rep who warned me at first that the conversation
> might be recorded, and she had to use caution in what she was able to
> disclose.

Ooooooh, scarrrry conpsiracy in the works! This is definitely the
hallmark of an exaggerated (if not entirely false) complaint. Someone
had a grudge and felt the need to instil FUD to anyone who might want to
consider Cingular.


> After telling me about the tower conversions, she cautiously
> indicated that this was happening VERY quickly and inside of a few months my
> current GSM would be nothing but trash!"

Total BS.

> The post was dated 9/11/05. I switched from Sprint which uses CDMA and I
> have to admit that I don't know an whole lot about GSM, but from reading
> this group for two weeks I thought Cingular's "own signal type" *was* GSM.
> This e-pinions post frankly sounds like B.S. to me, but if anyone knows
> anything, could you please straighten this out? Thanks.

Yes. GSM IS the standard on Cingular. Your phone will work just fine
now and for a good while in the future.

Now, yes, Cingular IS upgrading to a newer 3G standard called UMTS
("Universal Mobile Telephone Service"). It uses a different standard
called WCDMA. HOWEVER, this does not mean that Cingular is immediately
and summarily going to dump GSM off its network. The two are going to
coexist for quite some time. In fact, GSM will probably remain for long
after your contract has been up and you've upgraded to a UMTS handset,
if you stay with Cingular that long.




--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

Robby wrote:
> He explained that there was a tower about 2
> miles away that had a straight shot to us and that at the end of this month
> (give or take a week) they should have all the towers in my county switched
> over and our building should get the signal quality of that blue phone after
> the switch. He did say that they were moving everything to the "orange"
> technology, whatever that meant, but I'm sure you guru's know.

"Orange" and "Blue" are just euphemisms for the two comapnies that
existed prior to Cingular's merger with AT&T wireless. "Orange" refers
to Cingular's pre-merger assets and infrastructure (so named because
Cingular's primary brand-color is Orange), and "Blue" refers to the
assets of the former AT&T wireless (so named for the blue "Death Star"
that was AT&T's corporate logo).

For a good long while after the merger, Cingular had (and for now,
continues to have) to operate two different networks, the "Orange"
Cingular network and the "Blue" AT&T Wireless network that it acquired
when it finalized the merger. So while financially the two companies
are now one, the networks have pretty much continued to operate as if
they were two separate (albiet compatible) systems. There have been a
few stopgap measure put in place to allow customers on the Orange
network to use the Blue network, and vice-versa, but these measures
aren't perfect (as you've definitely noticed) and are far from ideal.

SO, the ultimate goal for Cingular is to merge the two systems, and make
them operate as if they are all one big happy Orange family.

Once the migration completes, the color references will effectively be
meaningless, because all of the Blue network assets will be assimilated
into Orange, and the two will be fully unified to operate like a single
network.

--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

Isaiah Beard wrote:
> Robby wrote:
>
>> He explained that there was a tower about 2 miles away that had a
>> straight shot to us and that at the end of this month (give or take a
>> week) they should have all the towers in my county switched over and
>> our building should get the signal quality of that blue phone after
>> the switch. He did say that they were moving everything to the
>> "orange" technology, whatever that meant, but I'm sure you guru's know.
>
>
> "Orange" and "Blue" are just euphemisms for the two comapnies that
> existed prior to Cingular's merger with AT&T wireless. "Orange" refers
> to Cingular's pre-merger assets and infrastructure (so named because
> Cingular's primary brand-color is Orange), and "Blue" refers to the
> assets of the former AT&T wireless (so named for the blue "Death Star"
> that was AT&T's corporate logo).
>
> For a good long while after the merger, Cingular had (and for now,
> continues to have) to operate two different networks, the "Orange"
> Cingular network and the "Blue" AT&T Wireless network that it acquired
> when it finalized the merger. So while financially the two companies
> are now one, the networks have pretty much continued to operate as if
> they were two separate (albiet compatible) systems. There have been a
> few stopgap measure put in place to allow customers on the Orange
> network to use the Blue network, and vice-versa, but these measures
> aren't perfect (as you've definitely noticed) and are far from ideal.
>
> SO, the ultimate goal for Cingular is to merge the two systems, and make
> them operate as if they are all one big happy Orange family.
>
> Once the migration completes, the color references will effectively be
> meaningless, because all of the Blue network assets will be assimilated
> into Orange, and the two will be fully unified to operate like a single
> network.
>

It's more complicated than that. There's actually 3, maybe 4, systems.
AT&T had both the older TDMA system and the newer GSM. I believe that
Cimgular also has TDMA systems in some areas as well. I know people
still on "blue" TDMA as there was no Cingular presence here (Phoenix)
until the merger. Cingular apparently would like to get all the TDMAers
moved to GSM and drop the TDMA network entirely.

WhoIsIt wrote:

> Cingular apparently would like to get all the TDMAers
> moved to GSM and drop the TDMA network entirely.

But they won't match our old ATTWS contract terms. I get 650 min/mo.;
free incoming text messages; 7 pm N/W; Free long distance; unlimited n/w
minutes.

If Cingular demands that I give up these terms just to get GSM, I'll bid
'em "Adios!"

Most folks over at Epinions don't have a life and get their thrills from
writing pages of fantasy junk that only exists in their minds. Take it all
with a grain of salt. If you want good info about Cingular, visit this
newsgroup or Howard Forums.

"Steve Moran" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Hi, I'm a newbie to Cingular (as of 9/9) and to this group. I just found
> a
> disturbing link concerning Cingular's coverage. Personally to me, it
> sounds
> like either sour grapes over some former unresolved dispute with the
> company
> or online sabotage from a competitor, but if true, this sounds like real
> bad
> news.

>Cingular is working on "eventually" removing all of the legacy "AT&T
>Wireless" Towers and getting all of the customers on the "Cingular" towers
>and frequencies.
>
>
>
Cingular is not "removing all of the legacy AT&T Wireless towers."
Cingular is working on putting the legacy AT&T Wireless towers onto the
Cingular network.

>But remember that with aprox. 20+ million AT&T Wireless customers this is
>not something that is happening overnight.
>
>As for areas with multiple frequencies I think that it is safe to say that
>if you live in an area that has both 1900 and 850 then you can expect to
>lose one of those frequencies (850) so they do not overlap.
>
>
I highly doubt that is the case. Spectrum is very valuable, and I'm
pretty sure Cingular is going to just stop using a lot of it. For
example, in Florida, Cingular has extensive coverage with 850 mHz A
licence, 850 mHz B licence, and PCS (1900 mHz) licenses. It's probably
not on their mind to start turning of towers "to prevent frequency
overlap." The frequencies of 850 mHz (or 800 mHz if you prefer to call
it that) do not overlap with 1900 mHz. Many companies, including
Verizon Wireless, use 850 and 1900 in the same market.

TH

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:03:00 UTC, John Navas
<[email protected]> wrote:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on Wed, 14 Sep 2005 03:59:04
> GMT, "Cliff" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Cingular is working on "eventually" removing all of the legacy "AT&T
> >Wireless" Towers and getting all of the customers on the "Cingular" towers
> >and frequencies.
>
> Cingular is actually working on "eventually" integrating both networks,
> decommissioning towers only when there is unnecessary overlap.
>
> >As for areas with multiple frequencies I think that it is safe to say that
> >if you live in an area that has both 1900 and 850 then you can expect to
> >lose one of those frequencies (850) so they do not overlap.
>
> Not true.
>

Isn't this a possibility in some markets, at least in the past?

Selling off of subscribers and spectrum to Alltel and Suncom, for
example, when it was thought that the combined market share would
otherwise be too great for the market?

Or changes in other markets where a lot of coverage was done renting
towers from others, like TMobile? With the purchase of AT&T spectrum
in those areas, reports of dropping of roaming in areas where Cingular
now has spectrum.

--