the "Family SURPRISE plan"

You have no idea.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <Dw2We.3204$GK2.2126@lakeread07>, "drew" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > I WAS NOT ADIVISED THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT SHE COULD DO THAT WE
COULD
> > BE CHARGED FOR. I BET THAT WAS BY DESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> No, you simply didn't read your contract.
>
> Instead, like most Americans today, you expect to be spoon-fed
> everything. And even when you're spoon-fed, you forget what you were
> told--and then you claim to have never been told, later on after you've
> done something stupid.
>
> Don't blame the world for this. You're an idiot if you don't know how
> your cell phone service works.
>

---

› See More: the "Family SURPRISE plan"

The Nokia 6010 phone that we got with the plan does not have a USB
connection.
What kind of data cable can I use?

I am technically savy with computers.

Where I come from a seller says, I have this to sell for blank dollars.
You can either decide yes I want to buy it or no I'll pass.

No tricks. No hidden cost. Gentlemen (or Ladies) doing business.
The seller wants and agrees to sell for a price and the buyer agrees to buy
for the price.
A fair business transaction.

If you bought a 1.99 article and got a bill for 11.00 wouldn't you be
surprised.
I'd like my daughter too know how to use the legal system when she gets
swindled.

She would have to turn over her entire last paycheck (from life guarding) to
cingular - for what?
She was not treated fairly. She was told $1.99 plus tax.

The transaction was downright unfair.


"dmthomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Buy a data cable for her specific phone. Probably no more than a few bucks
> on Ebay. Download free ringtones from websites and install them directly
> through the data cable... not through Cingular's network. Takes a bit more
> know how, but it's free.
>
> Also make sure your daughter pays for every single ringtone she downloads.
> She'll learn quick...
>
> "Drew" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:6L_Ve.2174$%[email protected]...
>
> > My daughter has to pay for the ring tones out of her allowance and will
be
> > broke of the next couple of months.
>
>

"drew" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:9J4We.3227$GK2.799@lakeread07...
> Poor analogy.
>
> I'm not naive.
> I know there are those out there that will rationalize it.
> (Probably sell cingular or in some what need to be on their good side.)
>
> I know that CNN gets too much advertizing dollar to pick up the story.
> Fox news probably also gets too much advertising dollar to risk a story.
>
> That's where the Net come in handy - to get the truth out.
>
> Bottom line.
>
> You should not tell someone, "Oh by the way we added 10.80 to the $1.99.
>
> That's like not being able to check the shipping charge before you order.
> Only 1.99 + 10.80 shipping. What would you say? Keep it!
>
> I was not given the chance.
>
> I know what fits in my car. I know a 4x8 sheet can fit in my van with the
> hatch closed and I can let other sizes stick out the back with a red flag.
>
> To sell a ring tone to a child for $1.99 then add 10.80 is not what I call
> fair.
>
> Let's face it. It's you could only charge a child for that.
> Most parents would say no it they knew about it.
>
> Try another analogy.
>
>
>


I know it sucks.... really! But if you read all the fine print on all those
papers they give you when you signed up, you will see that they cover their
asses VERY well. You might get them to waive part of the fee for the
download itself but not if you call ranting and raving. Something isn't
right though because I have downloaded ringtones and never got charge for
anything BUT the ringtone. But any service that runs through your phone via
their network is going to cost you.

T

"drew" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:9J4We.3227$GK2.799@lakeread07...
> Poor analogy.
>
> I'm not naive.
> I know there are those out there that will rationalize it.
> (Probably sell cingular or in some what need to be on their good side.)
>
> I know that CNN gets too much advertizing dollar to pick up the story.
> Fox news probably also gets too much advertising dollar to risk a story.
>
> That's where the Net come in handy - to get the truth out.
>
> Bottom line.
>
> You should not tell someone, "Oh by the way we added 10.80 to the $1.99.
>
> That's like not being able to check the shipping charge before you order.
> Only 1.99 + 10.80 shipping. What would you say? Keep it!
>
> I was not given the chance.

But your daughter was- see below.

>
> I know what fits in my car. I know a 4x8 sheet can fit in my van with the
> hatch closed and I can let other sizes stick out the back with a red flag.
>
> To sell a ring tone to a child for $1.99 then add 10.80 is not what I call
> fair.
>
> Let's face it. It's you could only charge a child for that.
> Most parents would say no it they knew about it.

Last time I checked, phones don't have an ID scanner attached to them. Of
course, most parents wouldn't put a bill-to-account computer in their kids
hands without either some restrictions or very precise instructions on use.

>
> Try another analogy.
>
>

I'm going to bet that your daughter was informed of the price and ignored it
in her haste to get the download. Maybe she takes after her father and
skips all of the terms and conditions of a sale in her haste to get what she
wants.

I'm also willing to bet that this download did not originate with Cingular,
as you are the first person to appear in this group in the last three years
and complain about an $11.00 ringtone. News of this nature would gladly
have been shared by the many trolls in this group if it were indeed a
Cingular service.

I'm also willing to bet that you have made no attempt to recreate the
transaction and see for yourself exactly how it is presented to the
consumer- anybody too lazy to read their service agreement would never waste
the energy to actually research the issue.

Finally, I'm willing to bet that most of what is being said in this thread
is going right over your head- Cingular is not responsible for your
stupidity or your daughter's spending habits.

BTW- I have no need to defend Cingular- I have absolutely no affiliation
(direct or indirect) with them.

"drew" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:E36We.3234$GK2.1238@lakeread07...
> Wrong bubba

Bubba? You must have me confused with your wife.

And your short, not so witty response only cements the fact that I was
probably right on point with at least one of my bets. You are beginning to
smell more and more like a troll. They typically have a problem with
actually responding to posts- whining and *****ing is much easier for them
to do.

BTW- the website CLEARLY states that there is an additional per kilobyte
charge and/or minutes used charge for downloading ringtones in addition to
the purchase price. Must have been a real doozy of a ring tone to rack up
$9.00 in d/l charges.

I tried being nice about it.
I only asked for a refund of the download part.

Now it's time to fight back.


"Tiffany" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "drew" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:9J4We.3227$GK2.799@lakeread07...
> > Poor analogy.
> >
> > I'm not naive.
> > I know there are those out there that will rationalize it.
> > (Probably sell cingular or in some what need to be on their good side.)
> >
> > I know that CNN gets too much advertizing dollar to pick up the story.
> > Fox news probably also gets too much advertising dollar to risk a story.
> >
> > That's where the Net come in handy - to get the truth out.
> >
> > Bottom line.
> >
> > You should not tell someone, "Oh by the way we added 10.80 to the $1.99.
> >
> > That's like not being able to check the shipping charge before you
order.
> > Only 1.99 + 10.80 shipping. What would you say? Keep it!
> >
> > I was not given the chance.
> >
> > I know what fits in my car. I know a 4x8 sheet can fit in my van with
the
> > hatch closed and I can let other sizes stick out the back with a red
flag.
> >
> > To sell a ring tone to a child for $1.99 then add 10.80 is not what I
call
> > fair.
> >
> > Let's face it. It's you could only charge a child for that.
> > Most parents would say no it they knew about it.
> >
> > Try another analogy.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> I know it sucks.... really! But if you read all the fine print on all
those
> papers they give you when you signed up, you will see that they cover
their
> asses VERY well. You might get them to waive part of the fee for the
> download itself but not if you call ranting and raving. Something isn't
> right though because I have downloaded ringtones and never got charge for
> anything BUT the ringtone. But any service that runs through your phone
via
> their network is going to cost you.
>
> T
>
>

Wrong bubba

"Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "drew" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:9J4We.3227$GK2.799@lakeread07...
> > Poor analogy.
> >
> > I'm not naive.
> > I know there are those out there that will rationalize it.
> > (Probably sell cingular or in some what need to be on their good side.)
> >
> > I know that CNN gets too much advertizing dollar to pick up the story.
> > Fox news probably also gets too much advertising dollar to risk a story.
> >
> > That's where the Net come in handy - to get the truth out.
> >
> > Bottom line.
> >
> > You should not tell someone, "Oh by the way we added 10.80 to the $1.99.
> >
> > That's like not being able to check the shipping charge before you
order.
> > Only 1.99 + 10.80 shipping. What would you say? Keep it!
> >
> > I was not given the chance.
>
> But your daughter was- see below.
>
> >
> > I know what fits in my car. I know a 4x8 sheet can fit in my van with
the
> > hatch closed and I can let other sizes stick out the back with a red
flag.
> >
> > To sell a ring tone to a child for $1.99 then add 10.80 is not what I
call
> > fair.
> >
> > Let's face it. It's you could only charge a child for that.
> > Most parents would say no it they knew about it.
>
> Last time I checked, phones don't have an ID scanner attached to them. Of
> course, most parents wouldn't put a bill-to-account computer in their kids
> hands without either some restrictions or very precise instructions on
use.
>
> >
> > Try another analogy.
> >
> >
>
> I'm going to bet that your daughter was informed of the price and ignored
it
> in her haste to get the download. Maybe she takes after her father and
> skips all of the terms and conditions of a sale in her haste to get what
she
> wants.
>
> I'm also willing to bet that this download did not originate with
Cingular,
> as you are the first person to appear in this group in the last three
years
> and complain about an $11.00 ringtone. News of this nature would gladly
> have been shared by the many trolls in this group if it were indeed a
> Cingular service.
>
> I'm also willing to bet that you have made no attempt to recreate the
> transaction and see for yourself exactly how it is presented to the
> consumer- anybody too lazy to read their service agreement would never
waste
> the energy to actually research the issue.
>
> Finally, I'm willing to bet that most of what is being said in this thread
> is going right over your head- Cingular is not responsible for your
> stupidity or your daughter's spending habits.
>
> BTW- I have no need to defend Cingular- I have absolutely no affiliation
> (direct or indirect) with them.
>
>
>

>I tried being nice about it.
> I only asked for a refund of the download part.
>
> Now it's time to fight back.

A different way of looking at it-

For less than $100, you've got the opportunity to teach your daughter a
lesson about how the real world works, a lesson that, because it's going to
hurt a little bit, is likely to stick. Most kids never get that opportunity,
because their parents are too busy trying to protect them from that evil
outside world. Protect them so much that they are clueless about the nature
of those evils.

If you see this as something terribly unjust that must be made right, the
possible lesson to your daughter is hey, don't worry about screwing up, your
dad will take care of everything. The day will come when you're not around
to do that.

I agree that it's ridiculous to have a $10 charge for downloading the ring
tone tacked on top of the $2 charge for the ringtone itself, but I'm also
curious what the *exact* process (to download a ringtone) actually is. What
are the prompts? Any warnings? Is it entirely done with keys, or do you talk
to a real live person?

But getting back to the lesson thing, when you compare this to other
cell-phone "lessons", you got off relatively easy. I hear of people whose
kids have no sense of time whatsoever, and the only thing that keeps their
initial cell phone bill from becoming $800 instead of $300 is the life of
the battery.

I'd consider a two-pronged approach. The kid screwed up (assuming she wasn't
given permission to add charges of any sort to her phone bill, she really
shouldn't have downloaded the ringtones in the first place, even at $1.99),
so she's responsible for the bill. But point out that sometimes, with a bit
of work, you can make the world a bit better place, and write or visit your
local congressional representative and tell the story. See what they might
have to say about it. Who knows where it might lead? A great civics lesson
at least.

And that, in my humble opinion, is worth the $100.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

>
>
>You should not tell someone, "Oh by the way we added 10.80 to the $1.99.
>
>
Was $10.80 added to the $1.95 cost?

"drew" <[email protected]> wrote in message
newso2We.3202$GK2.0@lakeread07...
> Had I known I would have.
> I did not know she could download ring tones.
> I'm sure most people have no idea that this feature is automatically
> activated.
> I resent the comment.

its also racking up charges on the web use.

I was not shown a contract or asked to sign one.
I read all literature that came with the phone - including the owners manual
and sales lit.
No mention of the abilty for a kid to even download ringtones - much less
that there would be an additional charge to download the ringtone; I
wouldn't expect sale info to be in a contract.

All extra expense options should be set to off unless authorized by an
adult.
(It took 3 calls to customer service to find someone with enough knowledge
about the phone and plan to tell me what the download charges were far - I
think that somehow is may still be lined to the net and "ringing up" profits
for cingular.)

What I do expect is :

Don't sell stuff to by Kid with my authorization.
And if I am not told the price before the sale, I should have an chance to
resend the sale.

Enough said. I'm going to make a call to the public service commisioner and
advice them that Cingular needs to set this option to off - unless
authorized by an adult. (By definition it is a family plan and will have
minors using it.)

Also, to issue a good faith credit to all those down here that where
impacted by the hurricane.
An extra $20 or $30 dollars means a lot to some that lost their house.

As far top posting - I would like to know how not to do that. I'll change
something and see if it works.




"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <VX4We.3230$GK2.294@lakeread07>, "drew" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > You have no idea.
> >
> > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > In article <Dw2We.3204$GK2.2126@lakeread07>, "drew" <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I WAS NOT ADIVISED THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT SHE COULD DO THAT WE
> > COULD
> > > > BE CHARGED FOR. I BET THAT WAS BY DESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > > No, you simply didn't read your contract.
> > >
> > > Instead, like most Americans today, you expect to be spoon-fed
> > > everything. And even when you're spoon-fed, you forget what you were
> > > told--and then you claim to have never been told, later on after
you've
> > > done something stupid.
> > >
> > > Don't blame the world for this. You're an idiot if you don't know how
> > > your cell phone service works.
> > >
>
> First of all, top-posting is bad. Don't do it.
>
> Secondly, I have every idea. I know what happened, and you're whining
> about how you mismanaged your family and your phone account because you
> didn't read your contract.
>
> It was only ten bucks. You screwed up. Get over it and get on with
> your life.
>

OK. Onward.

But I still think its should be set to "off" unless your told about it.
Or, when you find out the real cost you have a chance to resend the sale.
Buyer and seller should be able to agree on the price - its only fair.

That little trick which netted cingular about $23 + dollars - how many
times?

ATTENTION PARENTS

When you sign up for Cingulars "family plan" do this:

Tell the person selling you the package to set:

Text Messaging to OFF
Internet Access to OFF

Then add a parental password.

Don't be surprised if your bills are much higher that the $59.95 plan for 2
or 3 month until you can figure out all the surprises.

I hope this helps someone.





"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <9J4We.3227$GK2.799@lakeread07>, "drew" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > In article <Lm3We.3208$GK2.2906@lakeread07>, "drew" <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I talked to my daugher and she said she was quoted $1.95 plus tax
for
> > the
> > > > ring tone.
> > > > She was NOT told that there would be an additional charge of $10.80
for
> > the
> > > > download.
> > > > THAT IS A HIDDEN COST.
> > > > THAT IS WHAT I CALL UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES.
> > > >
> > > > Anyone interested in a class action?
> > >
> > > The people who sold the ring tone, did so for $1.95. And that's what
> > > they received.
> > >
> > > They are not responsible for how she gets the ring tone. That's up to
> > > her.
> > >
> > > Think of it like buying lumber at Home Depot: they sell you the
lumber
> > > for $100. Now you have a bunch of 12 foot boards you need to get
home.
> > > You have only a small car. What do you do?
> > >
> > > Why, you rent one of their trucks for $20 or whatever, and take the
> > > boards home in that. Or you pay someone to do it.
> > >
> > > But now, you say, your lumber cost you $120! THAT IS A HIDDEN COST.
> > > THAT IS WHAT YOU CALL UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES.
> > >
> > > Bollox. Home Depot did sell you the lumber for $100, but it's not
their
> > > problem how you get the lumber to where you need it.
> > >
> > > And it's not the ring tone vendor's problem how you get the ring tone
> > > into your phone. There are many ways, and if you do it using the
> > > phone's internet connection, everyone has a different plan with
> > > different costs. Do you expect the ring tone vendor to have any clue
> > > about any of it?
> > >
> > Poor analogy.
> >
> > I'm not naive.
>
> Absolutely you are, and your writings show it.
>
>
> > I know there are those out there that will rationalize it.
> > (Probably sell cingular or in some what need to be on their good side.)
> >
> > I know that CNN gets too much advertizing dollar to pick up the story.
> > Fox news probably also gets too much advertising dollar to risk a story.
> >
> > That's where the Net come in handy - to get the truth out.
> >
> > Bottom line.
> >
> > You should not tell someone, "Oh by the way we added 10.80 to the $1.99.
> >
> > That's like not being able to check the shipping charge before you
order.
> > Only 1.99 + 10.80 shipping. What would you say? Keep it!
>
> You should have read your contract. You didn't.
>
> You screwed up. Suck it up, and be a man.
>
> >
> > I was not given the chance.
>
> If you had read your contract, you would have known about these things.
> You didn't.
>
> And yes, you signed a contract. You just never read the terms of the
> contract. Let me guess: you bought a house but didn't bother having a
> lawyer read over any of the paperwork or represent you at closing.
>
> >
> > I know what fits in my car. I know a 4x8 sheet can fit in my van with
the
> > hatch closed and I can let other sizes stick out the back with a red
flag.
> >
> > To sell a ring tone to a child for $1.99 then add 10.80 is not what I
call
> > fair.
>
> Waaaah. To give a child a cell phone where she can call Bulgaria and
> rack up charges is ludicrous--but you gave her a cell phone. Now you're
> surprised when you find a ten dollar charge on it? You must live in a
> hole.
> >
> > Let's face it. It's you could only charge a child for that.
> > Most parents would say no it they knew about it.
>
> No, most parents know all about the things they give their children.
> They don't give their children random items without knowing what their
> children can do with them.
>

Drew wrote:
> Did you know that when you sign up for the family plan that your son or
> daughter can download a ring tone that cost $1.99 + $8.81 = $10.80!?

Yes. In fact, you can download hundreds of smaller ringtones at $2.00
each to rack up $200+ in additional fees. You can also get into minute
overages, international calls...

See, this is why you need to make sure your kids are responsible enough
to use a cell phone. If they're downloading ringtones and stiffing you
with the bill, then it seems to me someone hasn't parenting well enough,
and either needs to instill some responsibility in them, or take away
the cell phone (or put them on pre-paid and see how they like it when
they ringtone their account down to zero and can't talk with anyone).

> That's $10.80 for a single ring tone. I call that hidden cost.

And I call this, passing the buck.


> Does any one know Louisiana Law concerning undisclosed (hidden) costs, sales
> to minors, or the time period for resending sales made of the phone.

Just this: you signed a contract that said you would be responsible for
the usage and charges incurred by each phone that you purchased. It was
YOU who entered into the contract and agreed to be responsible for
payment, not your children. Cingular did NOT put the phones in the
hands of minors, YOU did. Much like if you bought a case of beer and
handed a can to your children to drink up, you must bear the
responsibility for the actions taken here, too.

Cingular doesn't make ringtone fees a secret. The holder of the phone
is told the cost of the ringtone on the handset screen, and told to
confirm the purchase before the download commences. Rest assured, your
daughter (unless she's illiterate on top of irresponsible) KNEW how much
the ringtone would cost, because she had to say "yes" to the charge.

> My daughter has to pay for the ring tones out of her allowance and will be
> broke of the next couple of months.

Aww, poor little princess.



--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

drew wrote:
> Had I known I would have.

Guess you didn't read your contract, huh?

> I did not know she could download ring tones.

Oh please. The feature lsit for the phones, adn the fact that ringtones
are offered, are plastered all voer the Cingular website and in every
Cingualr store. I even got little inserts in my bill telling me about
new tones that wwere just released and that I could have them for the
low low cost of $2.99 each and up.

I see where your daughter gets it now.

> I'm sure most people have no idea that this feature is automatically
> activated.

Everyone I talk to who owns a cell phone, from age 16 to age 54, seems
to know about it. It would seem that you need to do a little reaserch
on your purchases before you make them.

Did you know that peak-period phone calls incur airtime? Well, now you do.

> I resent the comment.

Truth hurts sometimes.

--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

drew wrote:
> I WAS NOT ADIVISED THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT SHE COULD DO THAT WE COULD
> BE CHARGED FOR. I BET THAT WAS BY DESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ohhh, he's using the caps lock key. Bet he's jumping up and down and
throwing a tantrum in front of his keyboard, too.


> THAT FEATURE SHOULD BE TURNED OFF BY DESIGN UNLESS THE CUSTOMER IS MADE
> AWARE OF ITS EXISTANCE. A HIDDEN FEATURE AND A HIDDEN CHARGE!!!!!!!!!
>
> I SHOULD HAVE TO TURN IT ON BEFORE IT CAN BE USED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IT IS. The process is called "activation," and it happens when you sign
on the doted line agreeing that you are aware of all of the terms of
your agreement, your phone's features, and that you can be billed for
charges beyond what's included in your rate plan, if you do things that
aren't included in it.


> IF THERE ARE ANY CINGULAR FOLKS OUT THERE, LET"S START
> ARBITRATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hah! What a piece of work.

--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.