my Sprint saga

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:36:53 -0700,
"Tinman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>>
>> In <[email protected]> on Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:39:13 -0700,
>> "Tinman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>>> I don't know exactly what you meant by "manually switching modes."
>>> But I
>>> do know that DUN works with the Treo 650 (after updating it) via
>>> Bluetooth. I've seen it in action. Am I missing something here? I
>>> even
>>> have friends with Macs that use their Treo 650s as modems via BT. I
>>> have never heard them complain about having to switch modes (ditto
>>> for my
>>> PC/Treo 650-using friends).
>>
>> You do in fact have to switch modes.
>
>Citation please; one that uses the term "switching modes" in regards to
>the Treo 650, BT, and DUN (not merely turning the DUN profile on and
>off). Bonus points if the (entire) cite is a complaint. <g>

Treo 650, Using Dial-up Networking
<http://www.palm.com/us/support/handbooks/treo/Treo650_GSM_DUN_UG.pdf>

Enabling DUN on your smartphone
IMPORTANT When DUN is enabled on your smartphone, you cannot access
the Internet directly or use the Bluetooth capabilities for wireless
synchronization or hands-free calling. Keeping DUN enabled also
drains your smartphone’s battery more quickly. Be sure to turn off
DUN on your smartphone when your Internet session is finished.

Apology accepted.

>I can find hundreds of reports of people thrilled with getting the DUN
>update (the official one, supported by both SPCS and Palm). Obviously no
>product will make everyone happy. But the feedback I've read has been
>very much positive regarding DUN.

I can find lots of users as frustrated as I am with the Bluetooth
implementation.

>> Worse, the Bluetooth function
>> in the Treo 650 is buggy, forgetting pairing, DUN appearing and
>> disappearing. After struggling with it on two different computers
>> and two different Bluetooth dongles, I finally gave up and switched
>> to the hotsync cable.
>
>I've been pairing BT PDAs to BT dongled-PCs for years: at least two
>Pocket PCs and one Palm. In most cases it was problematic. But once I
>figured out the quirks, it worked. ...

The Treo 650 is worse than any other Bluetooth device I know of.

>In my case, my laptop has BT built-in. Personally, I don't ever won't to
>ever even see another BT dongle again, let alone use one. I don't know
>if it's the chipset, or whatever, but I've had much better success with
>it built-in. ...

My Bluetooth dongles work just as well as built-in implementations (and better
than many of them).

>> I find it a great concept that's marred by some unfortunate flaws.
>
>Some people see the glass as half-full. You always manage to see the
>glass as half-empty, as well as dirty. ;-)

Whereas you just shoot the messenger when you don't like the message.
Nice. Not.

>>> What does fit your needs in an AMPS-less PDA phone?
>>
>> Seamless operation and solid reliability.
>
>And the model number of that dream machine is? I don't see any that are
>perfect. ...

Many are better in these areas than the current Treo 650, including the Sony
Ericsson P900.

>> IMHO the work-arounds are too painful for a device that expensive.
>
>I've had to deal with much harsher work-arounds with PDAs for years. And
>most all of those cost me more $$$ than my Treo 650 did.

I think it makes more sense to go with products that work. YMMV.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

---

› See More: my Sprint saga

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:40:30 GMT, John Navas wrote:
>"Tinman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Citation please; one that uses the term "switching modes" in regards to
>>the Treo 650, BT, and DUN (not merely turning the DUN profile on and
>>off). Bonus points if the (entire) cite is a complaint. <g>
>
>Treo 650, Using Dial-up Networking
><http://www.palm.com/us/support/handbooks/treo/Treo650_GSM_DUN_UG.pdf>
>
> Enabling DUN on your smartphone
> IMPORTANT When DUN is enabled on your smartphone, you cannot access
> the Internet directly or use the Bluetooth capabilities for wireless
> synchronization or hands-free calling. Keeping DUN enabled also
> drains your smartphone’s battery more quickly. Be sure to turn off
> DUN on your smartphone when your Internet session is finished.
>
>Apology accepted.

Apology for what? He asked you for a citation that uses the TERM
"switching modes". I don't see the term "switching modes" anywhere in
your citation. In fact, the words "switching" and "modes" aren't
found anywhere in that entire document...

Joe Huber
[email protected]

John Navas wrote:
>
> "Tinman" wrote:
>>
>> Citation please; one that uses the term "switching modes" in regards
>> to
>> the Treo 650, BT, and DUN (not merely turning the DUN profile on and
>> off). Bonus points if the (entire) cite is a complaint. <g>
>
> Treo 650, Using Dial-up Networking
> <http://www.palm.com/us/support/handbooks/treo/Treo650_GSM_DUN_UG.pdf>
>
> Enabling DUN on your smartphone
> IMPORTANT When DUN is enabled on your smartphone, you cannot access
> the Internet directly or use the Bluetooth capabilities for wireless
> synchronization or hands-free calling. Keeping DUN enabled also
> drains your smartphone's battery more quickly. Be sure to turn off
> DUN on your smartphone when your Internet session is finished.
>
> Apology accepted.
>

This is a joke, right? I asked for a citation involving "switching
modes." To make it clearer, I added that I did not want a citation that
involved "turning the DUN profile on and off."

Amazingly, your response was a citation that not only didn't contain
what I specifically asked for, but it did contain what I specifically
asked to be excluded. And since it wasn't a complaint I'm afraid
there'll be no bonus points either, John. "Now, Judy, tell John about
all the wonderful parting gifts he'll be receiving, including the home
version of 'I Want To Be a Usenet Star.'"


>
> The Treo 650 is worse than any other Bluetooth device I know of.
>

If that's your experience, fine. It hasn't been mine.


>
>>> I find it a great concept that's marred by some unfortunate flaws.
>>
>> Some people see the glass as half-full. You always manage to see the
>> glass as half-empty, as well as dirty. ;-)
>
> Whereas you just shoot the messenger when you don't like the message.
> Nice. Not.
>

John. Joke. Meet.


>>> Seamless operation and solid reliability.
>>
>> And the model number of that dream machine is? I don't see any that
>> are perfect. ...
>
> Many are better in these areas than the current Treo 650, including
> the Sony Ericsson P900.
>

"In these areas?" If the P900 isn't better in "other areas" is it still
perfect... I mean "better?"


>>> IMHO the work-arounds are too painful for a device that expensive.
>>
>> I've had to deal with much harsher work-arounds with PDAs for years.
>> And
>> most all of those cost me more $$$ than my Treo 650 did.
>
> I think it makes more sense to go with products that work. YMMV.

I think it makes more sense to judge for myself what works best for me
and what doesn't. YMWV.


--
Mike

"Tinman" <[email protected]> writes:

>This is a joke, right? I asked for a citation involving "switching
>modes." To make it clearer, I added that I did not want a citation that
>involved "turning the DUN profile on and off."

I'm quite happy to leave you to play semantic games with John but if
you happen to be implying anything significant I'd sure appreciate it
if you'd just say so. I'm still looking for good information on which
to base my phone decision.

Is it your experience that the Treo 650 can be left in a state (not
"mode"!) where it can use the wireless IP network internally and still
provide DUN service to a Bluetooth device? If so, are there
limitations on other devices being paired at the same time?

For example, can my wife browse the Web on the Treo, drop the Treo in
her purse, get in the car, and have the car computer use the Treo for
DUN? Can she also use her Bluetooth headset/handsfree then?

Thank you.

--kyler

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:26:06
-0500, Joseph Huber <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:40:30 GMT, John Navas wrote:
>>"Tinman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>Citation please; one that uses the term "switching modes" in regards to
>>>the Treo 650, BT, and DUN (not merely turning the DUN profile on and
>>>off). Bonus points if the (entire) cite is a complaint. <g>
>>
>>Treo 650, Using Dial-up Networking
>><http://www.palm.com/us/support/handbooks/treo/Treo650_GSM_DUN_UG.pdf>
>>
>> Enabling DUN on your smartphone
>> IMPORTANT When DUN is enabled on your smartphone, you cannot access
>> the Internet directly or use the Bluetooth capabilities for wireless
>> synchronization or hands-free calling. Keeping DUN enabled also
>> drains your smartphone’s battery more quickly. Be sure to turn off
>> DUN on your smartphone when your Internet session is finished.
>>
>>Apology accepted.
>
>Apology for what? He asked you for a citation that uses the TERM
>"switching modes". I don't see the term "switching modes" anywhere in
>your citation. In fact, the words "switching" and "modes" aren't
>found anywhere in that entire document...

Why play semantic games?

Switching modes was simply a reference to having to turn DUN on and off.

Call it what you want, it's still an unnecessary PITA.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:47:05 -0700,
"Tinman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>>
>> "Tinman" wrote:
>>>
>>> Citation please; one that uses the term "switching modes" in regards
>>> to
>>> the Treo 650, BT, and DUN (not merely turning the DUN profile on and
>>> off). Bonus points if the (entire) cite is a complaint. <g>
>>
>> Treo 650, Using Dial-up Networking
>> <http://www.palm.com/us/support/handbooks/treo/Treo650_GSM_DUN_UG.pdf>
>>
>> Enabling DUN on your smartphone
>> IMPORTANT When DUN is enabled on your smartphone, you cannot access
>> the Internet directly or use the Bluetooth capabilities for wireless
>> synchronization or hands-free calling. Keeping DUN enabled also
>> drains your smartphone's battery more quickly. Be sure to turn off
>> DUN on your smartphone when your Internet session is finished.
>>
>> Apology accepted.
>
>This is a joke, right? I asked for a citation involving "switching
>modes." To make it clearer, I added that I did not want a citation that
>involved "turning the DUN profile on and off."

To make it just as clear on my side, my use of the term "switching modes" was
a reference to having to turn DUN on and off, one mode being ON, and one mode
being off. Why play semantic games?

>> Whereas you just shoot the messenger when you don't like the message.
>> Nice. Not.
>
>John. Joke. Meet.

Tinman. Rudeness. Meet.

>> Many are better in these areas than the current Treo 650, including
>> the Sony Ericsson P900.
>
>"In these areas?" If the P900 isn't better in "other areas" is it still
>perfect... I mean "better?"

What I wrote speaks for itself.

>> I think it makes more sense to go with products that work. YMMV.
>
>I think it makes more sense to judge for myself what works best for me
>and what doesn't. YMWV.

Indeed. Just don't presume to judge for others.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:17:14 GMT, John Navas
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Why play semantic games?
>Switching modes was simply a reference to having to turn DUN on and off.

Nobody's playing games. You seem to be using teminology that for the
most part, nobody else is familiar with, with respect to the action
you are describing, and worse yet, terminology that the manufacturer
doesn't use in the documentation when referring to the action you are
describing. The term you chose is, at best, confusing for the action
that you are trying to describe. "Switching modes" brings to mind
something like switching between AMPS and CDMA, not turning some
feature on and off.

>Call it what you want, it's still an unnecessary PITA.

Call it what it is supposed to be called and we'll all be better off.

Joe Huber
[email protected]

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 30 Sep 2005 20:00:46
-0500, Joseph Huber <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:17:14 GMT, John Navas
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>Why play semantic games?
>>Switching modes was simply a reference to having to turn DUN on and off.
>
>Nobody's playing games. You seem to be using teminology that for the
>most part, nobody else is familiar with, with respect to the action
>you are describing, and worse yet, terminology that the manufacturer
>doesn't use in the documentation when referring to the action you are
>describing. The term you chose is, at best, confusing for the action
>that you are trying to describe. "Switching modes" brings to mind
>something like switching between AMPS and CDMA, not turning some
>feature on and off.
>
>>Call it what you want, it's still an unnecessary PITA.
>
>Call it what it is supposed to be called and we'll all be better off.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

So...I pushed both phones away until last night. It was a tough week.
I realized that I should at least check voice mail. I knew that I
could place a call and continue to listen to it even after the phone
froze (about 20 seconds into the call). (This is the phone that a
friend loaned to me.) I was prepared to reboot the phone for each
message.

I had lots of voice messages. I was able to listen to them for
several minutes. The phone was fine. I placed some more calls. No
problem. Then I restored my last backup. Everything was still fine.
Today the phone continues to work.

Somewhere in switching back and forth between my original phone and
this loaner phone I recall hearing something about updates taking
24-48 hours. Perhaps something just timed out and now the phone is
o.k.? Why would it freeze before then?

Anyway...I'm using the loaner phone for now but I'm looking more
intently at other phones. It's such a disappointing marketplace. I
had hoped for *so* much more by now. GSM seems to be the only way to
get a good (uncrippled) phone but Cingular doesn't seem like a great
choice of carriers (for coverage, at least).

--kyler

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:17:02 GMT, Kyler Laird <[email protected]> wrote:

>I use my SPH-I300 (Palm phone) address book and calendar heavily. I
>had it replaced awhile ago when the cradle stopped working. Around that
>time I also got out of the habit of backing up the data (because the
>cradle was so flakey). Can you see where this is going?
>
>On Sunday it crashed. It does that fairly often so I didn't think much
>about pulling the battery and reinserting it. Then everything was gone.
>It completely reinitialized. (That happened to my wife once and I
>accused her of hitting the "up" key.) Worse, it quickly froze after the
>initial setup. I tried it several times.
>
>So I called Sprint. They told me to contact the insurance company
>(becaue I pay for the damage insurance). The insurance company told me
>that because it wasn't physically damaged they couldn't do anything.

I've gotten replacements from lock\line before on i300s with no physical damage.
Suggest you push harder.

And, if they offer you an SPH-i500, take it.. nice, nice phone, uses same wall
wart & earset as the -300 but cradle, batteries differ.

--
John Bartley K7AAY USBC/DO PDX OR USA
"This is a carburetor," Hank tells his son. "Take it apart, put it back together; repeat until you're normal." - KOTH