No more "tethering" on Cingular MEdia Net

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Thu, 29 Sep 2005
06:24:02 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "If you lose your eligibility for a particular rate plan, we may change
>> your rate plan to one for which you qualify."
>
>Navas, maybe you can explain just what they think they mean there.
>
>I would certainly love to see Cingular explain to the court what they
>think they mean there.

For example, if you have a rate plan that depends on being employed by company
X, and then you leave that employment, you would no longer qualify for that
rate plan, and Cingular would have the right to move you to a rate plan for
which you then qualify.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

---

› See More: No more "tethering" on Cingular MEdia Net

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <7LQ_e.31028$Fh4.11035@trndny03> on Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:04:19 GMT, "RobR"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...

>> See Miscellaneous in your contract (Terms of Service), which incorporates
>> the
>> terms of whatever plans and services you have ordered.

>I'd like to, but I activated over the phone and the phone message just said
>pressing 1 means you agree to the terms and conditions that can be
>found.....
>somewhere. URL maybe? I don't even remember. I suppose I should have
>looks to see if I agreed to be someone's towel boy.

<http://www.cingular.com/download/Cingular%20Terms%20of%20Service.pdf>

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 03:21:25 GMT, "RobR" <[email protected]> wrote:

>s data part of the contract? I didn't think there was any contract for any
>data services, they're just add ons to the phone service aren't they? I
>have the $10/month 5 meg plan which I can cancel any time I want
>without penalty. The only contract I have is for my phone service.

Practically speaking such contracts are trivial to break. I have
already documented everything I would need to bring up to break my 2
month old contract. Screen shots of the defects, etc. Documented
areas with bad service. They have nowhere to go.

If you wanted to tether and any carrier put any restrictions on them
after the fact just say no, tell them you will see them in court.

What are they going to do? Sue you over $150? I would sue them
however if they screwed with me and I would win, since they wouldn't
find it worth their while to show up.

I have already sued PBMS (Cingular) over cellular service. They
became very cooperative after I got them served. They couldn't settle
fast enough! I was laughing at them on the phone, they wouldn't deal
with the problems until I sued them.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:35:58
GMT, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 03:21:25 GMT, "RobR" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>s data part of the contract? I didn't think there was any contract for any
>>data services, they're just add ons to the phone service aren't they? I
>>have the $10/month 5 meg plan which I can cancel any time I want
>>without penalty. The only contract I have is for my phone service.
>
>Practically speaking such contracts are trivial to break. I have
>already documented everything I would need to bring up to break my 2
>month old contract. Screen shots of the defects, etc.

What defects? And specifically how do they breach the service agreement?

>Documented
>areas with bad service.

Doesn't violate the service agreement -- read the coverage disclaimer that you
agreed to.

>They have nowhere to go.

I'm unconvinced.

>If you wanted to tether and any carrier put any restrictions on them
>after the fact just say no, tell them you will see them in court.

If you were notified of a change in terms, and you continued to use the
feature, then you agreed to those terms. Your recourse in the case of a
significant change in service is to terminate.

>What are they going to do? Sue you over $150?

Ding your credit.

>I would sue them
>however if they screwed with me and I would win, since they wouldn't
>find it worth their while to show up.

You have way more free time than I do.

>I have already sued PBMS (Cingular) over cellular service. They
>became very cooperative after I got them served. They couldn't settle
>fast enough! I was laughing at them on the phone, they wouldn't deal
>with the problems until I sued them.

PBMS then isn't Cingular now, which I think you'd find considerably tougher.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <7LQ_e.31028$Fh4.11035@trndny03> on Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:04:19 GMT,
> "RobR"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>
>>> See Miscellaneous in your contract (Terms of Service), which
>>> incorporates
>>> the
>>> terms of whatever plans and services you have ordered.
>
>>I'd like to, but I activated over the phone and the phone message just
>>said
>>pressing 1 means you agree to the terms and conditions that can be
>>found.....
>>somewhere. URL maybe? I don't even remember. I suppose I should have
>>looks to see if I agreed to be someone's towel boy.
>
> <http://www.cingular.com/download/Cingular%20Terms%20of%20Service.pdf>
>

well, thats not necessarily the agreement that was there when i 'signed'

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <j_Y_e.20401$w74.10143@trndny05> on Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:26:39 GMT, "RobR"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...

>> <http://www.cingular.com/download/Cingular%20Terms%20of%20Service.pdf>
>
>well, thats not necessarily the agreement that was there when i 'signed'

True, but then that's your responsibility, not mine.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on Wed, 28
Sep
> 2005 23:41:58 GMT, John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >New webpage <http://www.cingular.com/media/media_legal>:
> >
> > ... MEdia Net packages are not intended for tethering. Cingular
> > reserves the right to remove customers from MEdia Net packages for
> > the use of a wireless device as an interface to other devices or
> > networks, as determined by Cingular, including but not limited to
> > device tethering.
>
> If you signed up before this new policy was posted, and if Cingular tries
to
> enforce it, I believe you would be entitled to terminate without penalty.
>
> --
> Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
> John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

I am certainly NOT an lawyer, but I believe that in the Cingular T&C's it
states that Cingular is selling a wireless connection and that with "Proper
Notice" any rate plan and prices are subject to change. Anyone have a
contract handy?

"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on Wed, 28 Sep 2005
> 21:08:43 -0600, "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >What you cited is not legally binding- it is nothing more than a
description
> >of the product and limitations. The fact that this is or is not posted
to
> >the site means nothing from a contract compliance standpoint. However,
the
> >SERVICE AGREEMENT contained directly below it is much more legally
binding.
> >This SERVICE AGREEMENT does come into play when purchasing online (it is
> >agreed to before the sale is completed) and represents a written Service
> >Agreement. Keep going- I'd have to work extremely hard to make you look
as
> >ignorant as you are doing by yourself.
>
> Cingular Wireless Terms of Service
> <http://www.cingular.com/download/Cingular%20Terms%20of%20Service.pdf>
>
> "If you lose your eligibility for a particular rate plan, we may change
> your rate plan to one for which you qualify."
>
> "This Agreement, the signature or rate summary sheet, the terms
included in
> the rate brochure(s) describing your plan and services, and any
documents
> expressly referred to herein or therein, make up the complete agreement
> between you and Cingular..."
>
> I think that's quite clear, and supports my original statement. I
nonetheless
> suspect you'll stay in denial, but that's your problem, not mine. In
other
> words, your childish ranting and name-calling notwithstanding, we'll just
have
> to agree to disagree.
>
> --


Your original statement went exctly like this:

">New webpage <http://www.cingular.com/media/media_legal>:
>
> ... MEdia Net packages are not intended for tethering. Cingular
> reserves the right to remove customers from MEdia Net packages for
> the use of a wireless device as an interface to other devices or
> networks, as determined by Cingular, including but not limited to
> device tethering.

>If you signed up before this new policy was posted, and if Cingular tries
to
>enforce it, I believe you would be entitled to terminate without penalty."

The "new policy" you reference with a direct quote is not an actionable
item......period. Whether or not the information you quoted is or is not
posted to the website has no bearing on the validity of a service contract.
The fact that you are now quoting from a service agreement after being
called on it is rather funny. What is even more hilarious is that your
original statement, "If you signed up before this new policy was posted, and
if Cingular tries to enforce it, I believe you would be entitled to
terminate without penalty" is not supported by what you just quoted.

I am obviously not the one in denial here.

"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <j_Y_e.20401$w74.10143@trndny05> on Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:26:39 GMT,
> "RobR"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>
>>> <http://www.cingular.com/download/Cingular%20Terms%20of%20Service.pdf>
>>
>>well, thats not necessarily the agreement that was there when i 'signed'
>
> True, but then that's your responsibility, not mine.
>

I'm well aware of that Dad.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <P90%[email protected]> on Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:03:43 GMT,
"Cliff" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> In <[email protected]> on Wed, 28 Sep
>> 2005 23:41:58 GMT, John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >New webpage <http://www.cingular.com/media/media_legal>:
>> >
>> > ... MEdia Net packages are not intended for tethering. Cingular
>> > reserves the right to remove customers from MEdia Net packages for
>> > the use of a wireless device as an interface to other devices or
>> > networks, as determined by Cingular, including but not limited to
>> > device tethering.
>>
>> If you signed up before this new policy was posted, and if Cingular tries to
>> enforce it, I believe you would be entitled to terminate without penalty.

>I am certainly NOT an lawyer, but I believe that in the Cingular T&C's it
>states that Cingular is selling a wireless connection and that with "Proper
>Notice" any rate plan and prices are subject to change. Anyone have a
>contract handy?

<http://www.cingular.com/download/Cingular%20Terms%20of%20Service.pdf>:

CHANGES TO TERMS AND RATES
We may change any terms, conditions, rates, fees, expenses, or
charges regarding your service at any time. We will provide you with
notice of such changes (other than changes to governmental fees,
proportional charges for governmental mandates, roamer rates or
administrative charges) either in your monthly bill or separately.
You understand and agree that State and Federal Universal Service
Fees and other governmentally imposed fees, whether or not assessed
directly upon you, may be increased based upon the government’s or
our calculations. IF WE INCREASE THE PRICE OF ANY OF THE SERVICES TO
WHICH YOU SUBSCRIBE, AS SUCH PRICES ARE SET FORTH IN YOUR RATE PLAN
BROCHURE, OR IF WE MATERIALLY DECREASE THE GEOGRAPHICAL AREA IN WHICH
YOUR AIRTIME RATE APPLIES (OTHER THAN A TEMPORARY DECREASE FOR
REPAIRS OR MAINTENANCE), WE WILL DISCLOSE THE CHANGE AT LEAST ONE
BILLING CYCLE IN ADVANCE (EITHER THROUGH A NOTICE WITH YOUR BILL, A
TEXT MESSAGE TO YOUR EQUIPMENT, OR OTHERWISE) AND YOU MAY TERMINATE
THIS AGREEMENT WITHOUT PAYING AN EARLY TERMINATION FEE OR RETURNING
OR PAYING FOR ANY PROMOTIONAL ITEMS, PROVIDED YOUR NOTICE OF
TERMINATION IS DELIVERED TO US WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER THE
FIRST BILL REFLECTING THE CHANGE. If you lose your eligibility for a
particular rate plan, we may change your rate plan to one for which
you qualify.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:41:58 GMT, John Navas
<[email protected]> wrote:

>New webpage <http://www.cingular.com/media/media_legal>:

> ... MEdia Net packages are not intended for tethering. Cingular
> reserves the right to remove customers from MEdia Net packages for
> the use of a wireless device as an interface to other devices or
> networks, as determined by Cingular

"as determined by Cingular"?

That's very one-sided.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:34:04 -0600,
"Scott" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...

>> Cingular Wireless Terms of Service
>> <http://www.cingular.com/download/Cingular%20Terms%20of%20Service.pdf>
>>
>> "If you lose your eligibility for a particular rate plan, we may change
>> your rate plan to one for which you qualify."
>>
>> "This Agreement, the signature or rate summary sheet, the terms included in
>> the rate brochure(s) describing your plan and services, and any documents
>> expressly referred to herein or therein, make up the complete agreement
>> between you and Cingular..."
>>
>> I think that's quite clear, and supports my original statement. ...

>Your original statement went exctly like this:
>
>">New webpage <http://www.cingular.com/media/media_legal>:
>>
>> ... MEdia Net packages are not intended for tethering. Cingular
>> reserves the right to remove customers from MEdia Net packages for
>> the use of a wireless device as an interface to other devices or
>> networks, as determined by Cingular, including but not limited to
>> device tethering.
>
>>If you signed up before this new policy was posted, and if Cingular tries to
>>enforce it, I believe you would be entitled to terminate without penalty."
>
>The "new policy" you reference with a direct quote is not an actionable
>item......period.

I think it is, as per the quotation above, so again, we'll just have to agree
to disagree.

>Whether or not the information you quoted is or is not
>posted to the website

You didn't bother to check?

>has no bearing on the validity of a service contract.

True. It's part of the service agreement.

>The fact that you are now quoting from a service agreement after being
>called on it is rather funny. What is even more hilarious is that your
>original statement, "If you signed up before this new policy was posted, and
>if Cingular tries to enforce it, I believe you would be entitled to
>terminate without penalty" is not supported by what you just quoted.

You have a strange sense of humor.

>I am obviously not the one in denial here.

You have a strange sense of reality as well.

Regardless, suit yourself -- what you think is no concern of mine.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 30 Sep 2005 13:55:17
-0700, Tim <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:41:58 GMT, John Navas
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>New webpage <http://www.cingular.com/media/media_legal>:
>
>> ... MEdia Net packages are not intended for tethering. Cingular
>> reserves the right to remove customers from MEdia Net packages for
>> the use of a wireless device as an interface to other devices or
>> networks, as determined by Cingular
>
>"as determined by Cingular"?
>
>That's very one-sided.

It's Cingular's business, so why should it not be one-sided?

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

the wording you posted has not changed in years, does not mean you still can't do it. I have unlimited media net and I tether constantly!

Originally Posted by John Navas

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Thu, 29 Sep 2005
06:24:02 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "If you lose your eligibility for a particular rate plan, we may change
>> your rate plan to one for which you qualify."
>
>Navas, maybe you can explain just what they think they mean there.
>
>I would certainly love to see Cingular explain to the court what they
>think they mean there.

For example, if you have a rate plan that depends on being employed by company
X, and then you leave that employment, you would no longer qualify for that
rate plan, and Cingular would have the right to move you to a rate plan for
which you then qualify.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

troyboy30 <[email protected]> wrote:

> the wording you posted has not changed in years, does not mean you still
> can't do it. I have unlimited media net and I tether constantly!

Some howard forum posts make it seem that the language changed in January
or February of 2005. I'd like to know when it did change.
Do you really know that the page had those words a long time ago?
John thinks not.

When it changed, and what notice was given, might be important to avoid at
least one month's worth of data billing, should that happen.

When I bought my phone, I asked which phones could tether for internet
access. I bought one, and I was signed up for a MediaBasic package, all at
a Cingular company store.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5