TDMA to GSM

I manage my company's cellular services. The majority of our cell
phones are GSM, but I have approx 30 or so still on TDMA. My rep
thinks migrating these to GSM is a good idea and says it would even
save us money. Most of the people with the TDMA service need a phone
upgrade already. My question is, would there be a downside to
migrating these people over to GSM?

---

› See More: TDMA to GSM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I manage my company's cellular services. The majority of our cell
> phones are GSM, but I have approx 30 or so still on TDMA. My rep
> thinks migrating these to GSM is a good idea and says it would even
> save us money. Most of the people with the TDMA service need a phone
> upgrade already. My question is, would there be a downside to
> migrating these people over to GSM?
>
>

Lots of pluses but really only one negative and it doesn't affect
everyone or even most. Despite what Cingular's coverage map would have
you believe, many of their roaming partners HAVE NOT converted from TDMA
to GSM yet--or are still in test mode. Mostly rural areas and small
towns (under 10k) but that can really impact someone travelling by car.
If any of your TDMA users do a lot of travelling I'd make sure (via that
carriers web site or customer service--like I said Cingular's is a bit
"optimistic") that the areas they frequent are actually GSM or their new
GSM-only phone will be useless. It's changing pretty fast but I didn't
have to go very far out of Dallas a couple of weeks ago before I lost
GSM.
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA

Jud Hardcastle <[email protected]> wrote:
> carriers web site or customer service--like I said Cingular's is a bit
> "optimistic") that the areas they frequent are actually GSM or their new
> GSM-only phone will be useless.

For one specific location, customer service can email a coverage map that
is pretty specific. They could at least make valid comments about a few
different areas.

http://www.rahul.net/dold/clarence/att-gsm-95461.png

The red pin is the center of my zip code. The blue tower at the bottom is
the nearest tower. The sharp cutoff is where a non-AT&T carrier provided
roaming coverage.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

How do the employees that have the gsm phones like the service? Could
the 30 tdma users trade for a short time with some of the gsm users?
Perhaps open 30 new gsm accounts. Use the trial period. Cancel the new
accounts. Then upgrade the tdma users that were happy with the gsm
trial, and for the ones that don't, do a trial period with a different
carrier.


kiler0n wrote:
> I manage my company's cellular services. The majority of our cell
> phones are GSM, but I have approx 30 or so still on TDMA. My rep
> thinks migrating these to GSM is a good idea and says it would even
> save us money. Most of the people with the TDMA service need a phone
> upgrade already. My question is, would there be a downside to
> migrating these people over to GSM?
>

Some of this depends on your location. The greatest downside my be in NOT
upgrading the TDMA users. As of this summer, Cingular was "optimizing"
their TDMA network which involved shutting down some TDMA sites in locations
where there are duplicate sites nearby. This has the effect of
deteriorating service. In our region, where there was no Cingular service,
there has been no change since there is no duplication.

There is also an end date for TDMA service, sometime in the first 3 months
of 2008. The TDMA/GSM argument ends then. GSM is expanding quickly, and
there has been few complaints about loss od service from TDMA. Here in the
west it is a little more chancy. Not because there is so much TDMA, but
because there is still so much analog which is accessable from TDMA phones.

Since the end of TDMA is in sight, I would go ahead and set up the remaining
empoyees with GSM, but keep a few TDMA phones active, just in case. I bet
they won't be needed, but there will be some level of comfort that they can
switch back, but only for 2 years.


Bill Radio
Click for Wireless Reviews at:
http://www.mountainwireless.com


"kiler0n" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I manage my company's cellular services. The majority of our cell
> phones are GSM, but I have approx 30 or so still on TDMA. My rep
> thinks migrating these to GSM is a good idea and says it would even
> save us money. Most of the people with the TDMA service need a phone
> upgrade already. My question is, would there be a downside to
> migrating these people over to GSM?
>

As far as I know, there is no FCC requirement for tdma to be maintained
until the first 3 months of 2008, nor any requirement for it to be
turned off then. What do you base that date on? It is my guess that
any tdma carrier that has overlaid a 3G network will turn tdma off as
soon as practical, as soon as it stops making a profit, in cingular's
case maybe as soon as early 2006.


Bill Radio wrote:
> Some of this depends on your location. The greatest downside my be in NOT
> upgrading the TDMA users. As of this summer, Cingular was "optimizing"
> their TDMA network which involved shutting down some TDMA sites in locations
> where there are duplicate sites nearby. This has the effect of
> deteriorating service. In our region, where there was no Cingular service,
> there has been no change since there is no duplication.
>
> There is also an end date for TDMA service, sometime in the first 3 months
> of 2008. The TDMA/GSM argument ends then. GSM is expanding quickly, and
> there has been few complaints about loss od service from TDMA. Here in the
> west it is a little more chancy. Not because there is so much TDMA, but
> because there is still so much analog which is accessable from TDMA phones.
>
> Since the end of TDMA is in sight, I would go ahead and set up the remaining
> empoyees with GSM, but keep a few TDMA phones active, just in case. I bet
> they won't be needed, but there will be some level of comfort that they can
> switch back, but only for 2 years.
>
>
> Bill Radio
> Click for Wireless Reviews at:
> http://www.mountainwireless.com
>
>
> "kiler0n" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I manage my company's cellular services. The majority of our cell
>>phones are GSM, but I have approx 30 or so still on TDMA. My rep
>>thinks migrating these to GSM is a good idea and says it would even
>>save us money. Most of the people with the TDMA service need a phone
>>upgrade already. My question is, would there be a downside to
>>migrating these people over to GSM?
>>
>
>
>

Jerome Zelinske wrote:

> As far as I know, there is no FCC requirement for tdma to be
> maintained until the first 3 months of 2008, nor any requirement for
> it to be turned off then. What do you base that date on? It is my
> guess that any tdma carrier that has overlaid a 3G network will turn
> tdma off as soon as practical, as soon as it stops making a profit, in
> cingular's case maybe as soon as early 2006.


In 2008, the sunset period for AMPS will occur. Because AMPS is
basically an integral part of TDMA, it would make sense to keep TDMA
running until AMPS must be shut off, especially since they can share
channels. Otherwise, all the current TDMA users would be forced to
AMPS, probably encountering capacity problems.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <ZMs6f.5773$vS1.2249@dukeread03> on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:20:30 -0400,
Tropical Haven <[email protected]> wrote:

>Jerome Zelinske wrote:
>
>> As far as I know, there is no FCC requirement for tdma to be
>> maintained until the first 3 months of 2008, nor any requirement for
>> it to be turned off then. What do you base that date on? It is my
>> guess that any tdma carrier that has overlaid a 3G network will turn
>> tdma off as soon as practical, as soon as it stops making a profit, in
>> cingular's case maybe as soon as early 2006.
>
>In 2008, the sunset period for AMPS will occur.

Actually just an expiration of the AMPS mandate -- carriers are free to
continue to provide AMPS service if they wish to do so. Many (most?) probably
won't, because it's an inefficient use of expensive spectrum.

>Because AMPS is
>basically an integral part of TDMA,

They are actually different (other than sharing the same FDM channel
structure, just as GSM does).

>it would make sense to keep TDMA
>running until AMPS must be shut off, especially since they can share
>channels.

Individual channels are either AMPS or TDMA (or GSM), not more than one, and
TDMA (IS-136) channels are being migrated to GSM (also based on TDMA).

>Otherwise, all the current TDMA users would be forced to
>AMPS, probably encountering capacity problems.

Thus giving them further incentive to switch to some other technology.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Amps is an integral part of tdma? I don't think so! The FCC does not
say that amps must be shut off. It just says that at that time wireless
carriers are not required to keep it running. "all the current tdma
users"? You mean the oh so small percentage of them that are left. I
can see wireless companies turning off their, used to little to be
profitable, tdma networks as soon as 2006. There is no requirement to
keep them running.


Tropical Haven wrote:
> Jerome Zelinske wrote:
>
>> As far as I know, there is no FCC requirement for tdma to be
>> maintained until the first 3 months of 2008, nor any requirement for
>> it to be turned off then. What do you base that date on? It is my
>> guess that any tdma carrier that has overlaid a 3G network will turn
>> tdma off as soon as practical, as soon as it stops making a profit, in
>> cingular's case maybe as soon as early 2006.
>
>
>
> In 2008, the sunset period for AMPS will occur. Because AMPS is
> basically an integral part of TDMA, it would make sense to keep TDMA
> running until AMPS must be shut off, especially since they can share
> channels. Otherwise, all the current TDMA users would be forced to
> AMPS, probably encountering capacity problems.

Jerome Zelinske wrote:

> Amps is an integral part of tdma? I don't think so! The FCC does
> not say that amps must be shut off. It just says that at that time
> wireless carriers are not required to keep it running. "all the
> current tdma users"? You mean the oh so small percentage of them that
> are left. I can see wireless companies turning off their, used to
> little to be profitable, tdma networks as soon as 2006. There is no
> requirement to keep them running.
>
>
> Tropical Haven wrote:
>
>> Jerome Zelinske wrote:
>>
>>> As far as I know, there is no FCC requirement for tdma to be
>>> maintained until the first 3 months of 2008, nor any requirement for
>>> it to be turned off then. What do you base that date on? It is my
>>> guess that any tdma carrier that has overlaid a 3G network will turn
>>> tdma off as soon as practical, as soon as it stops making a profit,
>>> in cingular's case maybe as soon as early 2006.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In 2008, the sunset period for AMPS will occur. Because AMPS is
>> basically an integral part of TDMA, it would make sense to keep TDMA
>> running until AMPS must be shut off, especially since they can share
>> channels. Otherwise, all the current TDMA users would be forced to
>> AMPS, probably encountering capacity problems.
>
I should have been more clear in stating that the sunset date of the
*requirement* of AMPS will occur in 2008, not necessarily the sunset
date of the entire technology.

TDMA
Time Division Multiple Access - a digital radio technique that divides radio
spectrum between users using "timeslots", rather than (only) frequency
separation or codes, used in GSM and TDMA (IS-136) mobile networks.
TDMA is also the term used to describe the digital enhancement of the
AMPS analog standard, formerly known as D-AMPS (Digital Advanced
Multiple Access). Also, a method of digital wireless communications
transmission allowing a large number of users to access (in sequence) a
single radio frequency channel without interference by allocating unique
time slots to each user within each channel.

http://www.technologyforall.com/TechForAll/3GWS.html

Here is a good link to a look at TDMA:

http://www.privateline.com/Cellbasic...-ch3IS-136.pdf

I sure hope they have the smarts to wait until GSM coverage is as good as
TDMA before they shut TDMA off. That would force me to Verizon since
Cingulars GSm coverage just doesn't compare to either their TDMA coverage or
with Verizon in my area.

"Jerome Zelinske" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Amps is an integral part of tdma? I don't think so! The FCC does not say
> that amps must be shut off. It just says that at that time wireless
> carriers are not required to keep it running. "all the current tdma
> users"? You mean the oh so small percentage of them that are left. I can
> see wireless companies turning off their, used to little to be profitable,
> tdma networks as soon as 2006. There is no requirement to keep them
> running.
>

It is my understanding that cingular's entire network has been overlaid
with gsm. Therefore their entire tdma coverage area is now covered by
gsm.


JohnF wrote:
> I sure hope they have the smarts to wait until GSM coverage is as good as
> TDMA before they shut TDMA off. That would force me to Verizon since
> Cingulars GSm coverage just doesn't compare to either their TDMA coverage or
> with Verizon in my area.
>
> "Jerome Zelinske" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Amps is an integral part of tdma? I don't think so! The FCC does not say
>>that amps must be shut off. It just says that at that time wireless
>>carriers are not required to keep it running. "all the current tdma
>>users"? You mean the oh so small percentage of them that are left. I can
>>see wireless companies turning off their, used to little to be profitable,
>>tdma networks as soon as 2006. There is no requirement to keep them
>>running.
>>
>
>

Tdma phones have not been sold for many years. They do not last
forever, especially the batteries. cingular has launched gsm on their
entire network. You can't get more equaled than that. A plan is no
good if there is no signal to use.


Joseph wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 23:07:29 GMT, Jerome Zelinske
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Amps is an integral part of tdma? I don't think so! The FCC does not
>>say that amps must be shut off. It just says that at that time wireless
>>carriers are not required to keep it running. "all the current tdma
>>users"? You mean the oh so small percentage of them that are left. I
>>can see wireless companies turning off their, used to little to be
>>profitable, tdma networks as soon as 2006. There is no requirement to
>>keep them running.
>
>
> And you know how many TDMA customers are left just how? I imagine
> there are still a good number of people who haven't left TDMA for GSM
> yet. They are likely on plans that cingular cannot duplicate or their
> area's GSM coverage has not yet equalled that of the TDMA service.
>
> - -
>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:18:28
-0700, Joseph <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 23:07:29 GMT, Jerome Zelinske
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Amps is an integral part of tdma? I don't think so! The FCC does not
>>say that amps must be shut off. It just says that at that time wireless
>>carriers are not required to keep it running. "all the current tdma
>>users"? You mean the oh so small percentage of them that are left. I
>>can see wireless companies turning off their, used to little to be
>>profitable, tdma networks as soon as 2006. There is no requirement to
>>keep them running.
>
>And you know how many TDMA customers are left just how? I imagine
>there are still a good number of people who haven't left TDMA for GSM
>yet. ...

As of the end of the 3rd quarter, Cingular has just 18% of subscribers on
TDMA, or about 9 million out of over 50 million.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>