UMTS and HSDPA in November

John Navas wrote:

>>We all would like to know that. How available and how much bandwidth
>>they will have behind it are things we don't know yet. Cingular is
>>motivated as the EVDO runs circles around the EDGE service and it is in
>>many major markets.
>
>
> In fact EGPRS(EDGE) performs well as compared to EV-DO and is more widely
> available.

Heh! Sorry, but I'm afraid it doesn't. I've compared EVDO to GPRS, and
am quite happy with EVDO.



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› See More: UMTS and HSDPA in November

John Navas wrote:

>>Nonsense. I have had both and in practice they can not even be compared.
>> EV-DO compares to UMTS not Edge. Verizon has better coverage than
>>cingular in the DC/NY corridor anyway. Edge, the way Cingular has it
>>implemented, seldom exceeds GPRS speeds and perhaps 30% of the time has
>>zero data rate even with a high signal connection.
>
>
> Something must be seriously wrong with your EGPRS(EDGE) -- I'm routinely
> getting about 150 Kbps, or about 3x GPRS speeds.

Exactly what I saw on EDGE. But that's itneresting that you say it
"performs well as" EVDO. On EVDO, I've seen sustained speed of 350kbps,
and bursts of 750 from time to time.



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LOL

My grandfather had a plaque on his wall that said: "Even a fish
wouldn't get into trouble if he kept his mouth shut."

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:54:18 -0400,
Isaiah Beard <[email protected]> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>
>>>Nonsense. I have had both and in practice they can not even be compared.
>>> EV-DO compares to UMTS not Edge. Verizon has better coverage than
>>>cingular in the DC/NY corridor anyway. Edge, the way Cingular has it
>>>implemented, seldom exceeds GPRS speeds and perhaps 30% of the time has
>>>zero data rate even with a high signal connection.
>>
>> Something must be seriously wrong with your EGPRS(EDGE) -- I'm routinely
>> getting about 150 Kbps, or about 3x GPRS speeds.
>
>Exactly what I saw on EDGE. But that's itneresting that you say it
>"performs well as" EVDO. On EVDO, I've seen sustained speed of 350kbps,
>and bursts of 750 from time to time.

I've done considerable EV-DO testing, and while I have seen numbers like yours
in ideal conditions, performance has been typically much less under normal
network loads. Perhaps the network in your area has more excess capacity than
the network in this area.

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Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

John Navas wrote:

>
> I've done considerable EV-DO testing, and while I have seen numbers like yours
> in ideal conditions, performance has been typically much less under normal
> network loads. Perhaps the network in your area has more excess capacity than
> the network in this area.

On the contrary. The New York/New Jersey market is undisputed as
capacity-starved.


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[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:52:42 -0500,
Isaiah Beard <[email protected]> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>
>> I've done considerable EV-DO testing, and while I have seen numbers like yours
>> in ideal conditions, performance has been typically much less under normal
>> network loads. Perhaps the network in your area has more excess capacity than
>> the network in this area.
>
>On the contrary. The New York/New Jersey market is undisputed as
>capacity-starved.

Citation? Or do you have a different standard for yourself than you have for
me?

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Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

John Navas wrote:

>>>I've done considerable EV-DO testing, and while I have seen numbers like yours
>>>in ideal conditions, performance has been typically much less under normal
>>>network loads. Perhaps the network in your area has more excess capacity than
>>>the network in this area.
>>
>>On the contrary. The New York/New Jersey market is undisputed as
>>capacity-starved.
>
>
> Citation? Or do you have a different standard for yourself than you have for
> me?

Of course I have different standards. Mine are higher.

http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/...e1533print.htm

http://web.si.umich.edu/tprc/papers/..._TPRC_2005.pdf

http://www.fcc.gov/sptf/files/SEWGFinalReport_1.pdf




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[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Mon, 31 Oct 2005 13:39:17 -0500,
Isaiah Beard <[email protected]> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>
>>>>I've done considerable EV-DO testing, and while I have seen numbers like yours
>>>>in ideal conditions, performance has been typically much less under normal
>>>>network loads. Perhaps the network in your area has more excess capacity than
>>>>the network in this area.
>>>
>>>On the contrary. The New York/New Jersey market is undisputed as
>>>capacity-starved.
>>
>> Citation? Or do you have a different standard for yourself than you have for
>> me?
>
>Of course I have different standards. Mine are higher.

Posting no citations is a higher standard?

>http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/...e1533print.htm
"The Spectrum Needs of Our Nation's First Responders"

>http://web.si.umich.edu/tprc/papers/..._TPRC_2005.pdf
"How America’s Fragmented Approach to Public Safety Wastes Money and Spectrum"

Those are about public safety communications -- nothing to do with current
EV-DO network capacity in that area.

>http://www.fcc.gov/sptf/files/SEWGFinalReport_1.pdf
"Report of the Spectrum Efficiency Working Group"

Again, nothing to do with current EV-DO network capacity in that area.

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John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

How do you like these apples?

http://i.cmpnet.com/nc/1520/graphics/1520f2c.gif

Comes from this artilcle which admittedly is about one year old.

http://www.nwc.com/story/singlePageF...cleID=49400836

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on 31 Oct 2005
13:10:16 -0800, "GomJabbar" <[email protected]> wrote:

>How do you like these apples?
>
>http://i.cmpnet.com/nc/1520/graphics/1520f2c.gif
>
>Comes from this artilcle which admittedly is about one year old.
>
>http://www.nwc.com/story/singlePageF...cleID=49400836

Impressive. I've never seen anything like that speed for EV-DO here in
Northern California.

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John Navas wrote:
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on 31 Oct 2005
> 13:10:16 -0800, "GomJabbar" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>How do you like these apples?
>>
>>http://i.cmpnet.com/nc/1520/graphics/1520f2c.gif
>>
>>Comes from this artilcle which admittedly is about one year old.
>>
>>http://www.nwc.com/story/singlePageF...cleID=49400836
>
>
> Impressive. I've never seen anything like that speed for EV-DO here in
> Northern California.
>

I've heard this rumored in a few places now and I saw cingular's
"leaked" coverage map. I doubt anyone knows, but just in case, does
anyone know if it will be UMTS 1900 like the old ATT network, or will it
be true WCDMA 2100 UMTS like it is everywhere else? Also, anyone have
any clue how they will dole out access? Think they'll charge an arm and
a leg for it like they do with EDGE?

- Jon

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Tue, 01 Nov 2005 05:32:58 GMT,
Jon <[email protected]> wrote:

>I've heard this rumored in a few places now and I saw cingular's
>"leaked" coverage map. I doubt anyone knows, but just in case, does
>anyone know if it will be UMTS 1900 like the old ATT network, or will it
>be true WCDMA 2100 UMTS like it is everywhere else?

Presumably 1900, since Cingular has 1900 but not 2100 spectrum.

>Also, anyone have
>any clue how they will dole out access? Think they'll charge an arm and
>a leg for it like they do with EDGE?

I'm guessing that at least initially it will be the same price as UMTS, only
available on the Data Connect Unlimited plan, which is priced competitively.

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John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

I posted the following yesterday.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you like these apples?

http://i.cmpnet.com/nc/1520/graphics/1520f2c.gif

Comes from this artilcle which admittedly is about one year old.

http://www.nwc.com/story/singlePageF...cleID=49400836
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After looking at it again (I bookmarked the page a few months back), I
see that there is a typo in the chart of the first link. From reading
the accompanying text, it appears the scale under Upstream should be 0
- 150, not 0 -600. So each graduation is 25 Kbps.

John Navas wrote:

>
> Posting no citations is a higher standard?
>
>
>>http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/...e1533print.htm
>
> "The Spectrum Needs of Our Nation's First Responders"
>>http://web.si.umich.edu/tprc/papers/..._TPRC_2005.pdf
>
> "How America’s Fragmented Approach to Public Safety Wastes Money and Spectrum"
>
> Those are about public safety communications -- nothing to do with current
> EV-DO network capacity in that area.
>>http://www.fcc.gov/sptf/files/SEWGFinalReport_1.pdf
>
> "Report of the Spectrum Efficiency Working Group"
>
> Again, nothing to do with current EV-DO network capacity in that area.


John, evidently you have a habit of reading titles and not subject
matter. ALL of the above articles make a case for a spectrum crunch in
the wireless sector, including the CMRS carriers. The papers are
first-responder heavy becase a. First repsonders DO use CMRS services,
and b. TAhe government takes notice when you put "shortage" and
terrorist threat" in the same sentence.

And last I checked, EVDO was a CRMS service. If spectrum is tight, it's
tight for ALL CMRS services, including EVDO.

But John, clearly you have an axe to grind and an ego to nurse, and
clearly you will never acept that anyone else BUT you is right.


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[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:50:19 -0500,
Isaiah Beard <[email protected]> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>
>> Posting no citations is a higher standard?
>>
>>>http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/...e1533print.htm
>>
>> "The Spectrum Needs of Our Nation's First Responders"
>>>http://web.si.umich.edu/tprc/papers/..._TPRC_2005.pdf
>>
>> "How America’s Fragmented Approach to Public Safety Wastes Money and Spectrum"
>>
>> Those are about public safety communications -- nothing to do with current
>> EV-DO network capacity in that area.
>>>http://www.fcc.gov/sptf/files/SEWGFinalReport_1.pdf
>>
>> "Report of the Spectrum Efficiency Working Group"
>>
>> Again, nothing to do with current EV-DO network capacity in that area.
>
>John, evidently you have a habit of reading titles and not subject
>matter.

I actually read them all.

>ALL of the above articles make a case for a spectrum crunch in
>the wireless sector, including the CMRS carriers. [SNIP]

>And last I checked, EVDO was a CRMS service. If spectrum is tight, it's
>tight for ALL CMRS services, including EVDO.

A *spectrum* crunch is not a *capacity* crunch on a given allocated piece of
spectrum (i.e., Verizon CDMA).

>[additional insult deleted]

Evidently you have a habit of posting insults when someone dares to have a
different perspective. Nice. Not.

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Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>