Why IS IT...

>>>> Again, you should NEVER buy a car from a dealer that insists on having
>>>> someone accompany you on a test drive. Only the shadiest of car
>>>> dealers operate that way.
>>> I was surprised the first time a dealer just handed me the keys and told
>>> me to take the vehicle out myself.
>>
>> I'm sorry to hear that. That you were surprised, that is. It should
>> have been something that you EXPECTED to happen. -Dave
>
> I just thought it strange, because they didn't even ask me for a driver's
> license or anything.
>

It kind of makes sense though. First, the car is fully insured (with a
small deductible, probably). So the risk to the car dealer, while not
trivial, is relatively minor, when weighed against the huge potential
profits of a sale. Second, they have more information about the car they
give you THAN MOST OWNERS DO. For example, how many car owners have their
own license plate number memorized, or even have it WRITTEN DOWN SOMEWHERE?
Yet the car dealer has paperwork in many places (hardcopy and electronic)
showing the VIN number of the car you are testing. They also can find the
plate number of the dealer plate quite easily, if they need to. Plus as
soon as you entered the property, you were on CCTV with your picture being
recorded on a hard disk recorder unit (or time-lapse VCR, if the system is
older). Not to mention you probably left your current car parked on the
dealer lot during the test-drive. They can find you, quite easily. The
main reason to ask for a copy of your driver's license? Heck, even if you
drove to the dealer, that's no guarantee that you have a driver's license.
-Dave

---

› See More: Why IS IT...

> Of course the carriers that would object to the trial idea would also
> likely be the ones with the lousy coverage.
>
> Personally, if I were a carrier that was confident in my coverage, I'd
> have phones from all the competitors to lend out as well, simultaneously.

That's another great idea! Of course, I can just imagine the lawsuits . .
.. -Dave

>> . . . that sell at a 100% profit margin on ebay for $.99, and the
>> non-oem
>> ones for a penny!!! -Dave
> \
> Yeah, with $6-7 shipping.
>

People like to complain about the high shipping charges on ebay, but then
they conveniently forget that sellers need to buy shipping supplies, also.
So the item you paid $7 shipping for only cost the seller three or four
bucks to send ... but it came in a box also, didn't it? It was padded to
protect it in shipping, wasn't it? The box was sealed with packaging tape,
wasn't it? You can get free shipping packages for priority mail, but then
priority mail is more expensive, so the package isn't really free. I've
seen some shipping charges on ebay that were obviously way over-inflated,
but $6-$7 for a small item is not terribly over-inflated . . . especially if
you receive the item fairly quickly. Considering that you can get most car
chargers for less than $10 delivered off of ebay, that's still a bargain
compared to what the cellular providers want to charge you in the retail
stores. -Dave

Originally Posted by Dave

To Cellular Service providers: Why don't you allow prospective customers to
test a handset at home (and work) without signing a contract? WHY????

My parents and I own a computer store, and we've been a Cingular/CellOne agent for 16 years. We have 2 loaner phones that we let customers take for up to a week to see if there's going to be coverage in our area where they need it. We've actually had Cingular reps give us a hard time about it. The phones are demo lines from Cingular that they give us. The bill is in our store's name, and we purchased the phones ourselves. They are just on a nation plan with like 400 minutes. We have a rider form that we have customers sign when they take the phone saying that they are agreeing to be responsible for any international charges, any charges for the phone if it's damaged, and we get a copy of their drivers license and all of their contact information. The area we are in is very touchy with service...hills, valleys, etc. We personally would rather a customer take a loaner phone for a week and find out if the phone will work for them before we spend their time, and ours, getting information, going over phones and plans, doing all of that paperwork, the customer takes the phone, pays the activation fee, which they are responsible for if they keep the phone for more then 3 days plus pro-rated charges, then coming back, and we have to spend more of their time and ours getting it all cancelled. So, I totally agree personally. That's why we offer this to our customers. And like I mentioned, Cingular has given us a hard time for this in the past, but some reps that we've had stand behind us 100%.

"frechsm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Dave Wrote:
>>
>> To Cellular Service providers: Why don't you allow prospective
>> customers to
>> test a handset at home (and work) without signing a contract? WHY????
>
> My parents and I own a computer store, and we've been a
> Cingular/CellOne agent for 16 years. We have 2 loaner phones that we
> let customers take for up to a week to see if there's going to be
> coverage in our area where they need it. We've actually had Cingular
> reps give us a hard time about it. The phones are demo lines from
> Cingular that they give us. The bill is in our store's name, and we
> purchased the phones ourselves. They are just on a nation plan with
> like 400 minutes. We have a rider form that we have customers sign when
> they take the phone saying that they are agreeing to be responsible for
> any international charges, any charges for the phone if it's damaged,
> and we get a copy of their drivers license and all of their contact
> information. The area we are in is very touchy with service...hills,
> valleys, etc. We personally would rather a customer take a loaner phone
> for a week and find out if the phone will work for them before we spend
> their time, and ours, getting information, going over phones and plans,
> doing all of that paperwork, the customer takes the phone, pays the
> activation fee, which they are responsible for if they keep the phone
> for more then 3 days plus pro-rated charges, then coming back, and we
> have to spend more of their time and ours getting it all cancelled. So,
> I totally agree personally. That's why we offer this to our customers.
> And like I mentioned, Cingular has given us a hard time for this in the
> past, but some reps that we've had stand behind us 100%.
>
>
> --
> frechsm

I read about another store that did something similar. It seems like only
some very few independent stores (authorized dealers?) are the ones who do
hand out the loaner handsets for customers to test the network. I don't
understand why Cingular would object. If anything, this loaner arrangement
should be OFFICIAL POLICY, for the customers who request it. Or for that
matter, it should be suggested by the salesman BEFORE CONTRACT SIGNING if
the customer states that he/she needs a handset to work in a specific
location. Something along the lines of . . . "Oh, your verizon handset has
no signal at work, and you REALLY need to use it there? . . . maybe you
should try this loaner handset at work to see if Cingular will work better".
That way, customers who aren't aware that the loaner phones exist would
still benefit from them. It's about helping the customers, and won't that
build customer loyalty???

I think it's great that your store does the right thing by offering loaner
handsets for customers to try the network before they sign a contract. I
wish you were the rule and not the exception.

Just curious . . . what's your opinion as to how it has effected your bottom
line, as far as cellular sales goes? Do you think you've gained more
business, lost some business, or has the only effect been that it is has
saved both you and some of your customers a lot of time and aggravation?

OH!!! Before I forget . . . some people have objected to this (loaner
handset) idea as being too expensive to implement. I think I know the
answer already, but what are your thoughts on THAT? -Dave

OK. I'm going to try to answer everything here. Yes, we are an authorized agent for Cingular. Meaning - we own the store, we front our own money. The only money we get from Cingular is our commission and our Co-Op, which is earned by the number of activations we do. If we have a customer come in and say "I have a friend that has Verizon, and their phone works at my house, but I'd rather go with Cingular." Or "Is there service at my house?" Cingular does have a mapping tool, which they have spent a LOT of money on. Yes, it is pretty accurate - I'd say about 98%. But in areas like ours, it's really hard to be even 98%. Even trees play a huge factor. That's another main reason why we have loaner phones.

Most of the time when a customer takes one of our loaner phones, they will either come back and say "No, it didn't work, but thanks for letting me try it," "No, it didn't work in my house, but it worked outside, and everywhere else I need it," then we explain service will only improve, and they usually sign up, OR "Yes, it worked. I'll take it." They are always appreciative of us doing this for them, and maybe that will make them come back to our store when their Verizon contract is up in 2 years to see how the Cingular service has improved. But again the bottom line is that it has saved us and the customer time, and most of the time, saved the customer money.

As far as loaner phones being too expensive - like I said before - they are free demo lines that Cingular offers all of their agents - the only thing we do is pay for the phones. Our cost on the phones is anywhere from $80 to $500. It's up to us what phones we want as loaners. Right now, we have a Motorola, a Nokia, and an LG phone that we use for loaners so customer can have a choice. It also helps show customer that sometimes in certain areas, the external antenna on that Motorola as opposed to the Nokia with an internal antenna might make a difference for them. (In such a case, we let them try both.) We don't have a Treo 650 and a Razr for loaner phones. If a customer wants to see what the phone looks like activated or features of the phone, we can just stick an active SIM in it and show them, but we don't have the most expensive phones as loaners, and we do NOT let the customer take those phones out of the store unless they purchase them. So no, it's not too expensive to implement. Most of the time, they can get a pretty good idea of coverage with one of the 3 phones we have to choose from for a loaner without us having to give them an expensive phone as a loaner.

Dave wrote:
>>Dave wrote:
>>>Again, you should NEVER buy a car from a dealer that insists on having
>>>someone accompany you on a test drive. Only the shadiest of car dealers
>>>operate that way.
>>
>>I was surprised the first time a dealer just handed me the keys and told
>>me to take the vehicle out myself.
>
> I'm sorry to hear that. That you were surprised, that is. It should have
> been something that you EXPECTED to happen. -Dave

My wife and I have each been driving for nearly forty years, and neither
one of us have ever heard of a dealer just handing the keys to the
prospective customer for a test drive, any more than expecting to get
the keys to a home before the sale formally closes. We are talking about
many major domestic and foreign brand car dealers in lots of different
cities. It must be one of those things where the custom differs in
different parts of the country.

Your saying it cost 6-7 bucks to send a car charger thru usmail ? Try less
then a buck. I sent one to new york from calif for 92 cents in a padded env.
Staples charged me .45 for the padded env. Total less then 1.50 that's a
5.50 profit.
Item sold for 1.00 which I got for less then that from a friend that gets
them for about .60 ea. But a 100 of them and they go down to .42 ea.

Reason people charge so much shipping on eBay is because eBay does not base
there % on shipping when they bill the listing.
Hell, give them away for one cent (Like a lot do) and rip them on S&H...

"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>> . . . that sell at a 100% profit margin on ebay for $.99, and the
>>> non-oem
>>> ones for a penny!!! -Dave
>> \
>> Yeah, with $6-7 shipping.
>>
>
> People like to complain about the high shipping charges on ebay, but then
> they conveniently forget that sellers need to buy shipping supplies, also.
> So the item you paid $7 shipping for only cost the seller three or four
> bucks to send ... but it came in a box also, didn't it? It was padded to
> protect it in shipping, wasn't it? The box was sealed with packaging
> tape, wasn't it? You can get free shipping packages for priority mail,
> but then priority mail is more expensive, so the package isn't really
> free. I've seen some shipping charges on ebay that were obviously way
> over-inflated, but $6-$7 for a small item is not terribly over-inflated .
> . . especially if you receive the item fairly quickly. Considering that
> you can get most car chargers for less than $10 delivered off of ebay,
> that's still a bargain compared to what the cellular providers want to
> charge you in the retail stores. -Dave
>
>

(snip)

>
> As far as loaner phones being too expensive - like I said before - they
> are free demo lines that Cingular offers all of their agents - the only
> thing we do is pay for the phones. Our cost on the phones is anywhere
> from $80 to $500. It's up to us what phones we want as loaners. Right
> now, we have a Motorola, a Nokia, and an LG phone that we use for
> loaners so customer can have a choice. It also helps show customer that
> sometimes in certain areas, the external antenna on that Motorola as
> opposed to the Nokia with an internal antenna might make a difference
> for them. (In such a case, we let them try both.) We don't have a Treo
> 650 and a Razr for loaner phones. If a customer wants to see what the
> phone looks like activated or features of the phone, we can just stick
> an active SIM in it and show them, but we don't have the most expensive
> phones as loaners, and we do NOT let the customer take those phones out
> of the store unless they purchase them. So no, it's not too expensive
> to implement. Most of the time, they can get a pretty good idea of
> coverage with one of the 3 phones we have to choose from for a loaner
> without us having to give them an expensive phone as a loaner.
>
>
> --
> frechsm

Cool. So it is not just theoretically possible, but some dealers are
actually doing it, with good results. Are you listening, Cingular, T-Mo,
Verizon and Sprint??? -Dave

Considering that you can get most car chargers for less than $10 delivered off of ebay, that's still a bargain compared to what the cellular providers want to charge you in the retail stores. -Dave


That's another thing that we have control over. There's another agent in our town that is a premier agent for Cingular - meaning Cingular fronts the money to get them started, but they have to keep up the look of a Cingular owned store. We are forever getting people in our store to buy car chargers because we sell them for $15 - $17 and the other agent, that has to go by Cingular's pricing, sells them for $27 - $30.

"CharlesH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My wife and I have each been driving for nearly forty years, and neither
> one of us have ever heard of a dealer just handing the keys to the
> prospective customer for a test drive, any more than expecting to get the
> keys to a home before the sale formally closes. We are talking about many
> major domestic and foreign brand car dealers in lots of different cities.
> It must be one of those things where the custom differs in different parts
> of the country.

I think you are correct in that it depends on the part of the country. In
Atlanta, they would want DL and other information. They might try to ride
with you (some have, some have not). Away from Atlanta, in North Georgia,
where most people know each other, they throw me the key and hoped I bought
when I got back. Heck, one even gave me gas money to fill the tank because
it was on fumes when I wanted to try it.

Don

>
> That's another thing that we have control over. There's another agent
> in our town that is a premier agent for Cingular - meaning Cingular
> fronts the money to get them started, but they have to keep up the look
> of a Cingular owned store. We are forever getting people in our store to
> buy car chargers because we sell them for $15 - $17 and the other agent,
> that has to go by Cingular's pricing, sells them for $27 - $30.
>
>
> --
> frechsm

Yeah, I don't know why anyone would buy cellular accessories from some of
the retail locations for the cellular providers. -Dave

kevin weaver wrote:
> Your saying it cost 6-7 bucks to send a car charger thru usmail ?

> Reason people charge so much shipping on eBay is because eBay does not base
> there % on shipping when they bill the listing.
> Hell, give them away for one cent (Like a lot do) and rip them on S&H...

That does make sense. I wonder how long until eBay does something about
that.

Mike T. wrote:
>> That's another thing that we have control over. There's another agent
>> in our town that is a premier agent for Cingular - meaning Cingular
>> fronts the money to get them started, but they have to keep up the look
>> of a Cingular owned store. We are forever getting people in our store to
>> buy car chargers because we sell them for $15 - $17 and the other agent,
>> that has to go by Cingular's pricing, sells them for $27 - $30.
>>
>>
>> --
>> frechsm
>
> Yeah, I don't know why anyone would buy cellular accessories from some of
> the retail locations for the cellular providers. -Dave

There's another issue as well, the carriers are usually selling
after-market chargers, not OEM. In many cases, especially for car
chargers, the after-market ones are much lower quality.

>> Yeah, I don't know why anyone would buy cellular accessories from some of
>> the retail locations for the cellular providers. -Dave
>
> There's another issue as well, the carriers are usually selling
> after-market chargers, not OEM. In many cases, especially for car
> chargers, the after-market ones are much lower quality.

Are you saying that you get lower quality buying at an official retail
location for your cellular provider? -Dave