Roll over minutes

Originally Posted by Tstright

.
Pay the ETF and walk, It's that simple.

And unfortunately, that is what I will probably do. It is unfortunate to end a historically good business arrangement on such negative terms. 7 years with the same carrier means we both benefited for some time.

I just feel a need to make corporate and legal dept. aware of how the public is treated, and finding any contact information for either (especially legal) is very difficult. A contract is a 2 party agreement, and when it seems to be a one way street, something seems wrong ....

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› See More: Roll over minutes

Originally Posted by Marty

Call back, preferably during the day (seems like they might have better support during normal hours).

If you truly think you are right (and it sounds like you are), nicely
explain the situation without being belligerent, and treat the person at the
other end like they are a fellow human being (because they are), and nicely
try to get them to help you, simply because they should. Don't get angry if
they don't immediately - they may misunderstand at first.

If they don't seem cooperative, thank them, end the call, and call back
later. You'll probably get someone better next time.

I can't see why they would expect you to sign a contract for no reason. If
it's true, I think they will see it the same way. They are human, and they
only work for Cingular; they don't expect you or anyone to give anything
unnecessarily, I can guarantee that. But if you come off with an attitude
right off the bat, they will resent it. Just like you probably would.

Try it, and I think you will find that they are mostly nice people. At
least, that's always been my experience.

Marty,
Thanks for your input - this is how it has been handled already ... somewhat. I called during the middle of the day. When I experienced problems, you are right, I should have called back and got another rep. I did not. I calmly worked with the first level rep. and never lost my cool with her. I stated to her that I understood that she could not make such a decision about "breaking" a contract, so please forward me to a manager. Upon going throught the same speech with the manager several times and getting nowhere, I did begin to get heated when the circle kept going around " You have make a verbally binding legal contract". Yes, I my volume did increase when she questioned me about why it had taken so long to call concerning the problem. What DIFFERENCE does that make?!? I had been on the phone for over 1 hour at this point (phone counters are so nice). I am so disappointed that I did not record the call. It would have provided a full account of the time spent on the phone for future use if needed. As it is, it is like the first call where I was told incorrect information - THE COMPANY IS ALWAYS RIGHT AND THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS WRONG.

I went down to my local Cingular office to speak to someone in person and get some different phone #'s/ addresses. The rep. pulled up my account and my "rap sheet" was several pages long (and after 7 years, it should be I guess). Apparently I did get the fingers typing pretty hard from the manager (I could hear it), especially when I told her I would do all I could to downgrade Cingular in the future to anyone who asked my input. I asked if I could get a printout of the notes. He stated it was proprietary information (didn't surprise me).

So, have I shot myself in the foot, probably so ... but, again, after 7 years, I had really hoped that good prompt payment of $60.00 - $120.00/month would have meant something ... apparently not

Salt-peder <[email protected]> wrote:
> And unfortunately, that is what I will probably do. It is unfortunate
> to end a historically good business arrangement on such negative terms.
> 7 years with the same carrier means we both benefited for some time.

You have an 11 month contract that is already partially gone, so a few
months remaining.

You're going to break the contract and pay an ETF just because you don't
want to be under contract?

Is there something wrong with the plan or service, other than you are
upset about how you got tied to the contract?

Is someone going to care if you cancel and walk away?
Are you trying to prove a point?

What am I missing?

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Is there something wrong with the plan or service, other than you are
upset about how you got tied to the contract?

Is someone going to care if you cancel and walk away?
Are you trying to prove a point?

What am I missing?

"Shrugging Smile" - Yes, you have unfortunately found one of my greatest character flaws. It IS somewhat about the principle of the thing. Had I not been told that I did not NEED to be under contract, it may be different. Why should I be under contract?!?!? I was told that I went under contract for no reason, so, okay, just get rid of the contract. Do principles mean nothing to us anymore? Not really when you talk about Wal-Mart and large business vs the little guy.

Will anyone care? No they will not. Disappointing part of business today. I am a business owner that still operates a lot by a handshake and my word. Believe it or not, a lot is still done in the old South this way (by older people mostly). Life is so different when you shake someones hand and make promises and things happen. Unfortunately, most things cannot be done this way now. Unfortunately, I also have been forced to use contracts to protect my interests (as well as the client, by the way). Some folks just won't engage you without one, and that is okay this day and age ...

Unfortunately, I made a verbal contract on the phone that I received no paperwork for ... and now it is my word against .... the Giant Corporate Entity.

Salt-peder <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] Wrote:
> > Are you trying to prove a point?

> "Shrugging Smile" - Yes, you have unfortunately found one of my

> today. I am a business owner that still operates a lot by a handshake
> and my word. Believe it or not, a lot is still done in the old South

Just checking. I do work by and for verbal contract.
But Cingular and its minions do not.

They have locked you into the monthly plan that you wanted anyway.
I felt like that when I signed the two year contract in the first place.
I needed the service for the next two years. They gave me a phone.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

Salt-peder wrote:
> THE COMPANY IS ALWAYS RIGHT AND THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS WRONG.

"Now you get it" <-- from the Collection of Responses Towards John
Navas list.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Mon, 19 Dec 2005 17:52:03
-0600, Salt-peder <[email protected]> wrote:

>Unfortunately, I made a verbal contract on the phone that I received no
>paperwork for ... and now it is my word against .... the Giant
>Corporate Entity.

Your call was probably recorded.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:32:42
-0600, Salt-peder <[email protected]> wrote:

>Tstright Wrote:
>> .
>> Pay the ETF and walk, It's that simple.
>
>And unfortunately, that is what I will probably do. It is unfortunate
>to end a historically good business arrangement on such negative terms.
>7 years with the same carrier means we both benefited for some time.
>
>I just feel a need to make corporate and legal dept. aware of how the
>public is treated, and finding any contact information for either
>(especially legal) is very difficult. ...

Not hard at all -- that information is in the Cingular FAQ below.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

Somewhere around Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:57:09 -0600, while reading
alt.cellular.cingular, I think I thought I saw this post from Salt-peder
<[email protected]>:

>Marty,
>Thanks for your input - this is how it has been handled already ...
>somewhat. I called during the middle of the day. When I experienced
>problems, you are right, I should have called back and got another rep.
>I did not. I calmly worked with the first level rep. and never lost my
>cool with her. I stated to her that I understood that she could not
>make such a decision about "breaking" a contract, so please forward me
>to a manager. Upon going throught the same speech with the manager
>several times and getting nowhere, I did begin to get heated when the
>circle kept going around " You have make a verbally binding legal
>contract". Yes, I my volume did increase when she questioned me about
>why it had taken so long to call concerning the problem. What
>DIFFERENCE does that make?!? I had been on the phone for over 1 hour
>at this point (phone counters are so nice). I am so disappointed that
>I did not record the call. It would have provided a full account of
>the time spent on the phone for future use if needed. As it is, it is
>like the first call where I was told incorrect information - THE
>COMPANY IS ALWAYS RIGHT AND THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS WRONG.
>
>I went down to my local Cingular office to speak to someone in person
>and get some different phone #'s/ addresses. The rep. pulled up my
>account and my "rap sheet" was several pages long (and after 7 years,
>it should be I guess). Apparently I did get the fingers typing pretty
>hard from the manager (I could hear it), especially when I told her I
>would do all I could to downgrade Cingular in the future to anyone who
>asked my input. I asked if I could get a printout of the notes. He
>stated it was proprietary information (didn't surprise me).
>
>So, have I shot myself in the foot, probably so ... but, again, after 7
>years, I had really hoped that good prompt payment of $60.00 -
>$120.00/month would have meant something ... apparently not

What if you simply admit to them that they are right, you waited too long,
but you were busy and simply didn't get around to it. And yes, they are
right, you agreed to the contract, but you weren't aware of all the facts
(or were temporarily insane at the time). And you're not planning to leave,
but you may have to move in the future, and you don't want to have to
possibly break the contract in the future.

Or ask them what you got out of signing the contract. It seems like a
contract isn't much good if both parties don't get some benefit. If they
see that you got nothing, maybe they'll be more willing to do something to
make it right. They might be missing the point, and think that you got a
free phone or something, and are overlooking the facts. I really find it
hard to believe that more than a small percentage of people would look at
these facts and not see that it's unfair to you.

I understand how you feel, but don't let your principles get in your way too
much if the only casualty is going to be yourself. And definitely, don't
cop an attitude, and remember that each person you talk to is a potential
ally, and not the cause of your problem.

--
Marty - public.forums (at) gmail (dot) com
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...
well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

Originally Posted by Marty

What if you simply admit to them that they are right, you waited too long, but you were busy and simply didn't get around to it. And yes, they are right, you agreed to the contract, but you weren't aware of all the facts (or were temporarily insane at the time). And you're not planning to leave, but you may have to move in the future, and you don't want to have to possibly break the contract in the future.

Or ask them what you got out of signing the contract. It seems like a
contract isn't much good if both parties don't get some benefit. If they
see that you got nothing, maybe they'll be more willing to do something to
make it right. They might be missing the point, and think that you got a
free phone or something, and are overlooking the facts. I really find it
hard to believe that more than a small percentage of people would look at
these facts and not see that it's unfair to you.

I understand how you feel, but don't let your principles get in your way too
much if the only casualty is going to be yourself. And definitely, don't
cop an attitude, and remember that each person you talk to is a potential
ally, and not the cause of your problem.

I have followed advice from John Navas and called 611 and asked to speak to the escalations department. I got nowhere with them. I (and they) were extremely calm, methodical and both parties analyzed what has gone on. They told me:
1) when I pleaded that they review recorded the conversation from my first call to see what was said - "we can only do that through court subpoena brought on by your attorney"
2) when I asked what I got out of the contract, I was told "service"
3) when I pointed out that I have never gotten a phone from Cingular, incurring extra cost from them, they said "that is correct"
4)
A) I was told that the original rep. months ago apparently did not explain things to me very well.
B) The manager that I spoke to last week gave me wrong information and that I DID have to go back under contract to get rollover minutes applied to my second #. I expressed my dissapointment that management is not familiar with their product.

I told the rep. "Thank you, I cannot wait for my contract to expire so that changes can be made". We both said goodbye very courteously and the call was ended.

Escalations department was no help at all and I feel did whatever they could to short cycle my concern (contract to get rollover minutes).

David's little slingshot is having no effect on Goliath.

Somewhere around Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:16:53 -0600, while reading
alt.cellular.cingular, I think I thought I saw this post from Salt-peder
<[email protected]>:

>
>I have followed advice from John Navas and called 611 and asked to
>speak to the escalations department. I got nowhere with them. I (and
>they) were extremely calm, methodical and both parties analyzed what
>has gone on. They told me:
>1) when I pleaded that they review recorded the conversation from my
>first call to see what was said - "we can only do that through court
>subpoena brought on by your attorney"
>2) when I asked what I got out of the contract, I was told "service"
>3) when I pointed out that I have never gotten a phone from Cingular,
>incurring extra cost from them, they said "that is correct"
>4)
>A) I was told that the original rep. months ago apparently did not
>explain things to me very well.
>B) The manager that I spoke to last week gave me wrong information and
>that I DID have to go back under contract to get rollover minutes
>applied to my second #. I expressed my dissapointment that management
>is not familiar with their product.
>
>I told the rep. "Thank you, I cannot wait for my contract to expire so
>that changes can be made". We both said goodbye very courteously and
>the call was ended.
>
>Escalations department was no help at all and I feel did whatever they
>could to short cycle my concern (contract to get rollover minutes).
>
>David's little slingshot is having no effect on Goliath.

Sorry to hear that. I've never escalated anything, and that may be an
advantage. It could be that that dept is more public, and can't do as much
without worrying about stepping on someone's toes, or raising alarms that
might cause someone to question their judgement. This is all guesswork on my
part, not fact.

One thing I would have asked about #2 is what *extra* you got out of the
contract, since you already had service, and presumably you were not about
to lose it.

To tell the truth, I don't think escalating is a good idea; I usually go to
letter writing if I don't get what I want after a few calls. With letters,
you have copies which can later be sent to people like the PUC or whoever
handles it in your state. Also, you can send copies to higher ups in
management.

--
Marty - public.forums (at) gmail (dot) com
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...
well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

Originally Posted by Marty

One thing I would have asked about #2 is what *extra* you got out of the contract, since you already had service, and presumably you were not about to lose it.

To tell the truth, I don't think escalating is a good idea; I usually go to
letter writing if I don't get what I want after a few calls. With letters,
you have copies which can later be sent to people like the PUC or whoever
handles it in your state. Also, you can send copies to higher ups in
management.

Cingular service seems to be at an all time low in my area of coastal NC. I do not know how it could get worse through time (probably my imagination) but there are too many dead areas that I drive through for 1.5 HOURS (not my imagination) that other carriers have better coverage in. This was learned in a recent job change in the past 2 years that had me travelling in areas that I typically do not work in. My new company (and me) became frustrated with not being able to be in contact and had my primary number ported over to another carrier. Secondary line (wife's phone) has acceptable service in town.

I did have a funny instance some time ago - upon returning from Ocracoke Island, North Carolina, I had $75.00 of phone bills for long distance charges. Ocracoke is in the middle of the NC coast (where I had service if I stood outside on the west side of the house and had my head pointed N-NE). My plan states that I have NC coverage with no roaming, so I called customer service and explained it to them. Rep. stated that Ocracoke was not in NC. They LITERALLY had to get a map out to find out that it is (this is okay, Ocracoke is a small place), but they did finally take the charges off. Time cost - 45 minutes or $60.00 of my worktime (not the funny part).

Yes, I have service, if you can call it that ...