Any new Treos coming to Cingular?

The web site still has the old 650 which has been out almost two years.
I have a 600 which I got right before the 650 came out. Sprint and
Verizon have the 700p but note Cingular. Any guesses why?

---

› See More: Any new Treos coming to Cingular?

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:29:48 GMT, Dave <[email protected]> wrote in
<0Hp6h.612$v93.292@trnddc06>:

>The web site still has the old 650 which has been out almost two years.
>I have a 600 which I got right before the 650 came out. Sprint and
>Verizon have the 700p but note Cingular. Any guesses why?

Rumor is that Cingular will carry the new 680.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

It is alleged that Dave claimed:

> The web site still has the old 650 which has been out almost two years.
> I have a 600 which I got right before the 650 came out. Sprint and
> Verizon have the 700p but note Cingular. Any guesses why?

My guess is because the 700p is a CDMA only phone. Look for the Treo
680 on Cingular within the next month or so.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #71.
If I decide to test a lieutenant's loyalty and see if he/she should be
made a trusted lieutenant, I will have a crack squad of marksmen
standing by in case the answer is no.

Samsung Blackjack came out today, and is probably a much better option...

Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
> It is alleged that Dave claimed:
>
>> The web site still has the old 650 which has been out almost two years.
>> I have a 600 which I got right before the 650 came out. Sprint and
>> Verizon have the 700p but note Cingular. Any guesses why?
>
> My guess is because the 700p is a CDMA only phone. Look for the Treo
> 680 on Cingular within the next month or so.
>

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:44:08 GMT, Mike M <[email protected]> wrote in
<[email protected]>:

>Samsung Blackjack came out today, and is probably a much better option...

Because ... ?

I've yet to see a Windows Mobile device that matches the polish and
usability of Palm and Symbian devices. Most aren't even ready for prime
time.

Reviews:
<http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/samsung_blackjack>
<http://laptopmag.com/Review/Samsung-BlackJack.htm>

>Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
>> It is alleged that Dave claimed:
>>
>>> The web site still has the old 650 which has been out almost two years.
>>> I have a 600 which I got right before the 650 came out. Sprint and
>>> Verizon have the 700p but note Cingular. Any guesses why?
>>
>> My guess is because the 700p is a CDMA only phone. Look for the Treo
>> 680 on Cingular within the next month or so.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

3G, smartphone $20 data plan, we'll see...
John Navas wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:44:08 GMT, Mike M <[email protected]> wrote in
> <[email protected]>:
>
>> Samsung Blackjack came out today, and is probably a much better option...
>
> Because ... ?
>
> I've yet to see a Windows Mobile device that matches the polish and
> usability of Palm and Symbian devices. Most aren't even ready for prime
> time.
>
> Reviews:
> <http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/samsung_blackjack>
> <http://laptopmag.com/Review/Samsung-BlackJack.htm>
>
>> Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
>>> It is alleged that Dave claimed:
>>>
>>>> The web site still has the old 650 which has been out almost two years.
>>>> I have a 600 which I got right before the 650 came out. Sprint and
>>>> Verizon have the 700p but note Cingular. Any guesses why?
>>> My guess is because the 700p is a CDMA only phone. Look for the Treo
>>> 680 on Cingular within the next month or so.
>

At 16 Nov 2006 00:01:51 +0000 John Navas wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:44:08 GMT, Mike M <[email protected]> wrote in
> <[email protected]>:
>
> >Samsung Blackjack came out today, and is probably a much better
option...
>
> Because ... ?
>
> I've yet to see a Windows Mobile device that matches the polish and
> usability of Palm and Symbian devices. Most aren't even ready for prime
> time.

It's about the apps... Out of the box a WM phone is less than stellar,
but the useable software base for WM coupled with true multitasking make
the devices capable of almost anything.

I had a Symbian device (a Nokia 3650) and liked it a lot, but it wasn't
anywhere close to a laptop replacement like my T-Mo MDA (Cingular 8125,
HTC Wizard, etc.) is.

I can't remember the last time I used a PC to check my e-mail or even to
browse these newsgroups. Other than a few overly Java'd websites I need
to access for work, I wouldn't ever need a laptop.

I agree WM5 isn't quite ready for primetime, and needs a lot of "geek
love" to get it to work like you want. However, no other convergence
device has come as close to getting it right.

Sure, a WM5 PPC phone combines a mediocre phone, a mediocre iPod, a
mediocre navigation system, a flakey PIM, and sub-Windows 3.1 capable
laptop all in one akward, hard-to-use package, but the fact that it pulls
it off at all, in a package only a little larger than a deck of cards is
a feat in itself.

Or, to put it crudely, sure it sucks, but it sucks that much less than
the rest of the options out there!



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

It is alleged that Todd Allcock claimed:

> Sure, a WM5 PPC phone combines a mediocre phone, a mediocre iPod, a
> mediocre navigation system, a flakey PIM, and sub-Windows 3.1 capable
> laptop all in one akward, hard-to-use package, but the fact that it pulls
> it off at all, in a package only a little larger than a deck of cards is
> a feat in itself.

I fail to understand how something that does everything poorly can be
considered to "pull it off at all".

The PalmOS Treo has a good to excellent phone (the only phone I've
owned that does it better was a Kyocera on VZW), I don't care about
it's media playback capabilities but with the headphone jack size issue
aside it's decent at that, and it's got a great PIM. It also doesn't
even pretend to multitask so there is no problems there, either. What
needs to run in the background does, and what doesn't, doesn't. IOW, I
don't need my calendar running in the background to be notified of
appointments, the built-in alarm system handles notifying the calendar
app to wake up and make noise at me.

The only real weak spot is probably the included email app. But +for
me+, that's not an issue since I don't do email on my Treo. The
screen's too small for that. IMO, no PDA has a screen large enough to
do any real work on.

> Or, to put it crudely, sure it sucks, but it sucks that much less than
> the rest of the options out there!

You darn it with faint praise.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"The Superior Person's Book Of Words", by Peter Bowler: ECONOMICS: An
arcane language, used by its own cognoscenti for reviewing past events
in the production and distribution of wealth. There are some who would
define economics as a science rather than a language; but, in the
absence of any evidence that future events can be predicted by
economics on the basis of fixed laws, this approach can hardly be
supported by the objective lexicographer.

At 16 Nov 2006 01:47:01 -0500 Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
> It is alleged that Todd Allcock claimed:
>
> > Sure, a WM5 PPC phone combines a mediocre phone, a mediocre iPod, a
> > mediocre navigation system, a flakey PIM, and sub-Windows 3.1 capable
> > laptop all in one akward, hard-to-use package, but the fact that it
pulls
> > it off at all, in a package only a little larger than a deck of cards
is
> > a feat in itself.
>
> I fail to understand how something that does everything poorly...

I said "mediocre," not "poorly," meaning I don't expect a PPC phone to be
as good a media player as a dedicated device like an iPod, nor as good a
navigation system as a Hertz Neverlost.


> ... can be
> considered to "pull it off at all".

A good analogy is a Swiss Army knife. Ever use the scissors, nail file or
screwdriver on one? Would they be the scissors or screwdriver of my
choice in the comfort of my house? Of course not, but having the knife
on me means not having to carry scissors or a screwdriver everywhere I go.
>
> The PalmOS Treo has a good to excellent phone (the only phone I've
> owned that does it better was a Kyocera on VZW), I don't care about
> it's media playback capabilities but with the headphone jack size issue
> aside it's decent at that, and it's got a great PIM.

The MDA is lousy as a phone (IMHO) for the reason it works well as other
things- the touchscreen. Pecking a picture of a dialpad without tactile
feedback to make a call is simply too counter-intuitive.

> It also doesn't
> even pretend to multitask so there is no problems there, either.

Because it lacks a feature is somehow an advantage? ;-)

> What
> needs to run in the background does, and what doesn't, doesn't. IOW, I
> don't need my calendar running in the background to be notified of
> appointments, the built-in alarm system handles notifying the calendar
> app to wake up and make noise at me.

The multi-tasking is what makes a WM device a Swiss Army knife. At one
time I can have (and have had) my MDA running navigation software
(connected to a BT GPS), playing MP3s through my car radio, and checking
for traffic jams via the internet. And, although I don't recall receiving
any e-mail at the time, it would've come through if there was any.

> The only real weak spot is probably the included email app. But +for
> me+, that's not an issue since I don't do email on my Treo. The
> screen's too small for that.

How much of a screen do you need for e-mail? It's just text! But, to be
fair to your Palm, I'm sure you could've found better 3rd party e-mail
apps if necessary. I'm composing this post on the MDA now, but certainly
not with any included app.

> IMO, no PDA has a screen large enough to
> do any real work on.

I find that complaint amusing, particularly from my generation (over 40),
since we all probably worked on 320x240 screens (albeit TV sized) just a
generation ago. My PPC can display just as much information on screen as
my first TRS80 or an Apple II did. But obviously to each his own. I
edit spreadsheets on mine without any real problems, but then again, I
used to work with Multiplan on a CGA screen!

> > Or, to put it crudely, sure it sucks, but it sucks that much less than
> > the rest of the options out there!
>
> You darn it with faint praise.

Perhaps- admittedly I have a love/hate relationship with my MDA because I
personally find WM5 to be inferior in many ways to WM2003- the mobile OS
MS finally, IMO, got right (leave it to them to replace it with an
inferior one!) So I have a bit of the "love the hardware/hate the OS"
thing going on. My last PPC (a Dell Axim running WM2003) was a better
PPC in many respects than this one, but having it all in a single device
is an advantage that allows me to overlook it's shortcomings.

Maybe growing up in the 70's as a kid watching Star Trek has
subconciously led me on a search for Mr. Spock's Tricorder- I want to
carry one smallish device that is everything I need or want to lug around-
it's my phone, my map, my paperback book, my walkman, my address book,
my wallet (sure it can't hold money but it carries the pictures of my
kids!), a low-quality camera and camcorder (like a Polaroid Instamatic
for the 21st century!) and thanks to accuweather.com it's a thermometer
and barometer. Come to think of it, if it could detect life forms it
_would_ be a tricorder!

Having said that, I still believe it's more of a harbinger of successful
devices to come than a successful device in it's own right. A "proof of
concept" perhaps... ;-)



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

It is alleged that Todd Allcock claimed:

> > I fail to understand how something that does everything poorly...
> > ... can be
> > considered to "pull it off at all".
> A good analogy is a Swiss Army knife. Ever use the scissors, nail file or
> screwdriver on one? Would they be the scissors or screwdriver of my

I've owned several over the years. I no longer carry one with me, but
I still have it. I found a multitool that does things better.

> > The PalmOS Treo has a good to excellent phone (the only phone I've
> > owned that does it better was a Kyocera on VZW), I don't care about
> > it's media playback capabilities but with the headphone jack size issue
> > aside it's decent at that, and it's got a great PIM.
>
> The MDA is lousy as a phone (IMHO) for the reason it works well as other
> things- the touchscreen. Pecking a picture of a dialpad without tactile
> feedback to make a call is simply too counter-intuitive.

I don't find it counter-intuitive. It's just a touch screen.

> > It also doesn't
> > even pretend to multitask so there is no problems there, either.
> Because it lacks a feature is somehow an advantage? ;-)

Because it doesn't have a "feature" that doesn't work right anyway.
Apps open and close instantly, unless they're loaded from the storage
card. With everything running full-screen, multitasking is a feature
looking for a problem to solve, rather than a feature addressing a real
need. What happens if you neglect to actually close your programs when
you switch to another app? Your WinMob slows down after not closing
only a few programs. And it eats up your battery life.

The PalmOS does not have the problem. When you open a new program, the
old one is automatically closed. And if you want to switch back, there
are application switchers you can get to allow you to swap back and
forth.

> The multi-tasking is what makes a WM device a Swiss Army knife. At one
> time I can have (and have had) my MDA running navigation software
> (connected to a BT GPS), playing MP3s through my car radio, and checking
> for traffic jams via the internet. And, although I don't recall receiving
> any e-mail at the time, it would've come through if there was any.

The Treo can do the GPS, music and listen for new email at the same
time, too. Though why you'd want to check for email while actually
driving is beyond me... The checking for traffic though, I'd prefer to
leave that up to the GPS, by using a system with a traffic service.

> How much of a screen do you need for e-mail? It's just text! But, to be

Irrelevant. The small screen screws up the formatting. Even plain
text. I suppose that if I needed mobile access to my email that I'd
view it differently, but I don't so I can afford to be picky about it.


> I find that complaint amusing, particularly from my generation (over 40),
> since we all probably worked on 320x240 screens (albeit TV sized) just a
> generation ago. My PPC can display just as much information on screen as
> my first TRS80 or an Apple II did. But obviously to each his own. I

I am just 40. In high school, the computer club was using Apple IIc
setups. The mainframe used to teach the Fortran and Cobol classes used
80x24 character monitors and 120 character line printers.

My desktop has a dual-head graphics card driving two monitors at
1280x1024 pixel resolution and I often wish I could afford to upgrade
to a triple-head setup.

> Having said that, I still believe it's more of a harbinger of successful
> devices to come than a successful device in it's own right. A "proof of
> concept" perhaps... ;-)

Why why not use one that gets it right-er? The worst thing about my
Treo (the 650) is its paucity of memory/storage, only 24M available.
But the 700 has 60M available and the 680 has 64. That said, the 650
still out performs my first home computer, and possibly my second one,
too.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"The Superior Person's Book Of Words", by Peter Bowler: ECONOMICS: An
arcane language, used by its own cognoscenti for reviewing past events
in the production and distribution of wealth. There are some who would
define economics as a science rather than a language; but, in the
absence of any evidence that future events can be predicted by
economics on the basis of fixed laws, this approach can hardly be
supported by the objective lexicographer.

At 16 Nov 2006 10:53:22 -0500 Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:

> Because it doesn't have a "feature" that doesn't work right anyway.
> Apps open and close instantly, unless they're loaded from the storage
> card. With everything running full-screen, multitasking is a feature
> looking for a problem to solve, rather than a feature addressing a real
> need. What happens if you neglect to actually close your programs when
> you switch to another app? Your WinMob slows down after not closing
> only a few programs. And it eats up your battery life.

I findthe WinMobile memory manager works quite well with most apps,
shutting them down if not being used, but a few errant 3rd party apps
foul it up pretty good, so I use a freeware task manager to close them.
>
> The PalmOS does not have the problem. When you open a new program, the
> old one is automatically closed. And if you want to switch back, there
> are application switchers you can get to allow you to swap back and
> forth.

So how does a program that needs to stay running, like a navigation
program, stay running in the background without true multitasking? Can
you still run the nav software then switch to contacts to look up a
number to dial?


> > The multi-tasking is what makes a WM device a Swiss Army knife. At
one
> > time I can have (and have had) my MDA running navigation software
> > (connected to a BT GPS), playing MP3s through my car radio, and
checking
> > for traffic jams via the internet. And, although I don't recall
receiving
> > any e-mail at the time, it would've come through if there was any.
>
> The Treo can do the GPS, music and listen for new email at the same
> time, too. Though why you'd want to check for email while actually
> driving is beyond me...

I don't want to READ it while driving, but on long trips in rural areas,
you download it where/when you can.

> The checking for traffic though, I'd prefer to
> leave that up to the GPS, by using a system with a traffic service.

Does any Palm nav app offer that functionality? Pharos and a few other
on WM do.
>

> Why why not use one that gets it right-er?

I will, as soon as a better one exists! (I guess that's where we'll have
to "agree to disagree," as they say...) ;-)


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:42:25 -0700, Todd Allcock
<[email protected]> wrote in
<[email protected]>:

>At 16 Nov 2006 10:53:22 -0500 Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:

>> The checking for traffic though, I'd prefer to
>> leave that up to the GPS, by using a system with a traffic service.
>
>Does any Palm nav app offer that functionality? Pharos and a few other
>on WM do.

Google Maps for Mobile. <http://www.google.com/gmm> Now available for
Treo. Works so well on my Motorola V551 that I no longer bother with my
GPS.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

It is alleged that Todd Allcock claimed:

> > The PalmOS does not have the problem. When you open a new program, the
> > old one is automatically closed. And if you want to switch back, there
> > are application switchers you can get to allow you to swap back and
> > forth.
>
> So how does a program that needs to stay running, like a navigation
> program, stay running in the background without true multitasking? Can
> you still run the nav software then switch to contacts to look up a
> number to dial?

I haven't used any nav software, so I don't know. But in any case,
there is NAV software that lets you do that from within the program.
One such was just reviewed at Treocentral within the past couple days.

> > The checking for traffic though, I'd prefer to
> > leave that up to the GPS, by using a system with a traffic service.
>
> Does any Palm nav app offer that functionality? Pharos and a few other
> on WM do.

I don't know. And I'm still trying to decide whether I want to get a
dedicated GPS unit or one that integrates with my Treo. Since I can't
really afford either at the moment, I have plenty of time to decide.

> > Why why not use one that gets it right-er?
> I will, as soon as a better one exists! (I guess that's where we'll have
> to "agree to disagree," as they say...) ;-)

I guess so!

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"Londo, you're making a big mistake." "A huge mistake." "Well, it
won't be my first. Actually, it will be my fourth." (Daggair, Mariel,
and Amb. Mollari, B5 "Soul Mates")

It is alleged that John Navas claimed:

> On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:42:25 -0700, Todd Allcock
> <[email protected]> wrote in
> <[email protected]>:
>
> >At 16 Nov 2006 10:53:22 -0500 Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
>
> >> The checking for traffic though, I'd prefer to
> >> leave that up to the GPS, by using a system with a traffic service.
> >
> >Does any Palm nav app offer that functionality? Pharos and a few other
> >on WM do.
>
> Google Maps for Mobile. <http://www.google.com/gmm> Now available for
> Treo. Works so well on my Motorola V551 that I no longer bother with my
> GPS.

But it's not GPS enabled. At least, not on the Treo.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #93.
If I decide to hold a double execution of the hero and an underling who
failed or betrayed me, I will see to it that the hero is scheduled to
go first.

At 16 Nov 2006 18:22:27 +0000 John Navas wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:42:25 -0700, Todd Allcock
> <[email protected]> wrote in
> <[email protected]>:
>
> >At 16 Nov 2006 10:53:22 -0500 Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
>
> >> The checking for traffic though, I'd prefer to
> >> leave that up to the GPS, by using a system with a traffic service.
> >
> >Does any Palm nav app offer that functionality? Pharos and a few other
> >on WM do.
>
> Google Maps for Mobile. <http://www.google.com/gmm> Now available for
> Treo. Works so well on my Motorola V551 that I no longer bother with my
> GPS.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but other than displaying a map (or
satellite image) what does GMM do? It doesn't support GPS or routing,
does it? I see it can display driving directions, but so can Mapquest
mobile.

Seems like a cute mobile app, but hardly a replacement for "real"
navigation software...


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com