Can one have 1 phone with 2 lines?

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> [...]
> > Many, if not most, GSM phones support ALS (alternate line service). Come
>
> I think the GSM function you mention is simpler than you seem to
> think. It allows you to have two phone numbers associated with
> the same SIM, but I don't think it allows two accounts to be serviced
> by the phone. There doesn't seem to be a way to specify which "line"
> you are using to make outbound calls, for example, let alone alternate
> voice mail or different preferred carrier lists or anything like that.

I don't think so. If you do a Google search for "Alternate Line
Service" and GSM you'll find quite a few hits from users on Aeriel,
Optus and Orange networks--especially Orange--that have it (or have had
it).

Apparently IF the phone supports it and IF it's activated via service
menus it DOES function just like a two-line phone. Both lines are active
at once, you can see which line is ringing, and you can select which
line is to be used for each outgoing call. Having each go to a seperate
VM was my assumption but I don't see how they could access the box
without each having one.

I saw ALS settings on my Nokia the last time I was deep in the service
menus. I believe Motorola even documents it in the manual.

There is something else called Multiple Subscriber Number that may be
what you're thinking of.
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA

---

› See More: Can one have 1 phone with 2 lines?

SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dennis Ferguson wrote:
>> On 2006-11-19, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> There are dual NAM phones for CDMA and iDEN that work seamlessly. GSM is
>>> older technology and apparently they never thought of the scenario where
>>> someone would want to have two phone numbers on one phone.
>>
>> I have a China Unicom SIM which has two numbers, one in +86 and one
>> in +852. It works fine in every GSM phone I've plugged it into.
>
> Are both numbers active at once, or do you have to manually switch
> between them?

Both numbers are active at once. One phone I have indicates which
number was called (the others might too, but I've not been curious
enough to read the manuals to figure out what the icons mean). On
the phone I usually use it in I also know how to pick which number
appears as the caller ID; by default it seems to use the number on
line 1, and that number flips around depending on whether the phone
is in Hong Kong or in China.

I guess it is worth pointing out that this particular trick, of
having a phone with two numbers from two different countries (or
country codes, at least), is something that a CDMA phone could
never do. You couldn't even put those two numbers in the phonebook
of a CDMA phone in a way which works in both countries, let alone
in the NAM.

> The SIM adapters that allow two SIMS to be in a single SIM phone at once
> require user selection of which number to use. It works fine for
> outgoing calls of course, but since only one SIM is active at a time,
> the non-active number will not go through. The vendor advises forwarding
> the non-active number to the active number in the case of it not being
> picked up.

The only person I ever knew who made use of dual-NAM functionality in
a CDMA phone (an unbranded Nokia 6185; my Sprint-branded version
of the same phone had the functionality programmed out) had the
same constraint. Note that the NAM includes not only the phone number
but also stuff like the Home SID, and the phone was not capable of
attaching to two different CDMA networks at once so you had to pick
the one you wanted to use. In fact, I don't know any CDMA phone
(or GSM phone, for that matter) which is capable of attaching to two
networks at once. Consideration of the technical requirements for
that feat would suggest that a device which supported this would
likely be fairly expensive.

Dennis Ferguson

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 13:31:34 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:

>There are dual SIM adapters though the way the auto-switch works if
>funky. You have to divert the calls from the SIM that is off-line to the
>SIM that is on-line. But at least for outgoing calls you can switch
>between SIMs.
>
>There are dual NAM phones for CDMA and iDEN that work seamlessly. GSM is
>older technology and apparently they never thought of the scenario where
>someone would want to have two phone numbers on one phone.

Lack of knowledge or anti-GSM propaganda?
GSM does have such a feature.
It's called Alternate Line service.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_line_service>
Not all carriers support it.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

Jud Hardcastle <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>> [...]
>> > Many, if not most, GSM phones support ALS (alternate line service). Come
>>
>> I think the GSM function you mention is simpler than you seem to
>> think. It allows you to have two phone numbers associated with
>> the same SIM, but I don't think it allows two accounts to be serviced
>> by the phone. There doesn't seem to be a way to specify which "line"
>> you are using to make outbound calls, for example, let alone alternate
>> voice mail or different preferred carrier lists or anything like that.
>
> I don't think so. If you do a Google search for "Alternate Line
> Service" and GSM you'll find quite a few hits from users on Aeriel,
> Optus and Orange networks--especially Orange--that have it (or have had
> it).
>
> Apparently IF the phone supports it and IF it's activated via service
> menus it DOES function just like a two-line phone. Both lines are active
> at once, you can see which line is ringing, and you can select which
> line is to be used for each outgoing call. Having each go to a seperate
> VM was my assumption but I don't see how they could access the box
> without each having one.

Yes, it works much the same way with my China Unicom SIM. Both
numbers are active at once, it indicates which number was called
by "line" and there is some magic to pick which number shows up
in the caller ID when you make an outgoing call.

The distinction I was trying to draw was a bit different, however.
I'm not sure that there can be separate accounting information associated
with each number, rather than just two numbers associated with one
account. In my case there is certainly only one account; minutes are
drawn from one pool no matter which "line" is used, you don't get
to select a different carrier to provide service for each "line", call
costs are always identical, and the only distinction between selecting
one or the other "line" for an outgoing call seems to be what shows up
as the caller ID of the party you are calling.

Then again, I may be presuming to much to think that it has to work
this way. Perhaps this is up to the carrier you get the SIM from.

> I saw ALS settings on my Nokia the last time I was deep in the service
> menus. I believe Motorola even documents it in the manual.
>
> There is something else called Multiple Subscriber Number that may be
> what you're thinking of.

Perhaps. On my (overseas) Motorola V3 the numbers show up in

Menu->Settings->Phone Status->My Tel. Numbers

There are 4 slots in there that the phone calls "Lines", and it
identifies which number is in use by "L1" or "L2" on the display.
And this Hong Kong carrier

http://www.sunday.com/portal/common/...sp?fldr_id=187

seems to describe adding a second number to the same account as
Alternate Line service. I'm pretty sure this is what I have, except
my numbers are from two different countries.

Dennis Ferguson

Dennis Ferguson wrote:

> The only person I ever knew who made use of dual-NAM functionality in
> a CDMA phone (an unbranded Nokia 6185; my Sprint-branded version
> of the same phone had the functionality programmed out) had the
> same constraint. Note that the NAM includes not only the phone number
> but also stuff like the Home SID, and the phone was not capable of
> attaching to two different CDMA networks at once so you had to pick
> the one you wanted to use. In fact, I don't know any CDMA phone
> (or GSM phone, for that matter) which is capable of attaching to two
> networks at once. Consideration of the technical requirements for
> that feat would suggest that a device which supported this would
> likely be fairly expensive.

There is a Daewoo GSM phone that supports this, but it's a 900/1800 phone.

I wonder about the GSM/CDMA phone from Verizon. If you're in a country
that has both CDMA, as well as GSM 900/1800, could you roam on both
networks? There are more and more countries in Asia that are adding CDMA
networks, so these phones might make sense for someone that needs the
better coverage offered by CDMA in the U.S., but that wants to use GSM
in Europe and Asia.

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:54:14 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:

>... There are more and more countries in Asia that are adding CDMA
>networks, so these phones might make sense for someone that needs the
>better coverage offered by CDMA in the U.S., but that wants to use GSM
>in Europe and Asia.

Just the opposite -- CDMA2000 (not W-CDMA) is actually fading; e.g.,
Sprint-Nextel going with WiMAX, not to mention countries like India.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:08:18 GMT, John Navas <[email protected]>
wrote:
: On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:54:14 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
: wrote in <[email protected]>:
:
: >... There are more and more countries in Asia that are adding CDMA
: >networks, so these phones might make sense for someone that needs the
: >better coverage offered by CDMA in the U.S., but that wants to use GSM
: >in Europe and Asia.
:
: Just the opposite -- CDMA2000 (not W-CDMA) is actually fading; e.g.,
: Sprint-Nextel going with WiMAX, not to mention countries like India.

John, you keep saying that about India, but I don't believe it for a
picosecond. India has a billion people, most of them too poor to easily junk
their old phones and buy new ones. They may indeed create a GSM network, but
if they have a CDMA network of any size (I'll take your word for that), it's
almost inconceivable that they could simply walk away from it.

As for Sprint-Nextel, are you seriously suggesting that they're going to
replace their CDMA voice network with WiMAX? I'll believe that when I see it
too. In fact, I'd bet that a significant portion of Sprint's revenue comes
from being Verizon's surrogate along Interstate highways in non-Verizon
territory. Without their CDMA network, that income would evaporate.

Bob

Robert Coe wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:08:18 GMT, John Navas <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> : On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:54:14 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
> : wrote in <[email protected]>:
> :
> : >... There are more and more countries in Asia that are adding CDMA
> : >networks, so these phones might make sense for someone that needs the
> : >better coverage offered by CDMA in the U.S., but that wants to use GSM
> : >in Europe and Asia.
> :
> : Just the opposite -- CDMA2000 (not W-CDMA) is actually fading; e.g.,
> : Sprint-Nextel going with WiMAX, not to mention countries like India.
>
> John, you keep saying that about India, but I don't believe it for a
> picosecond. India has a billion people, most of them too poor to easily junk
> their old phones and buy new ones. They may indeed create a GSM network, but
> if they have a CDMA network of any size (I'll take your word for that), it's
> almost inconceivable that they could simply walk away from it.

The CDMA carrier is posturing for reduced royalty payments to Qualcomm,
and for more spectrum, with a threat of changing to GSM.

The problem in India is that government policy in spectrum allocation
favors the less efficient GSM system, by allocating more spectrum to GSM
with the explanation that GSM requires more spectrum for the same number
of voice channels.

It's unclear what the outcome will be. Clearly it's not in the
governments interest to let the CDMA carriers move to GSM because this
will reduce capacity by a significant amount. So the outcome may be that
the government changes its allocation of spectrum to be fairer.

As to the royalites, Qualcomm has resisted cutting royalties, claiming
that even a 50% reduction in royalties would lower the cost of a handset
by only $1, and that the royalties are funding development of more
highly integrated chips that will further reduct handset cost.

See "http://www.physorg.com/news70732101.html"

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 12:39:57 -0500, Robert Coe <[email protected]> wrote in
<[email protected]>:

>On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:08:18 GMT, John Navas <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>: On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:54:14 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
>: wrote in <[email protected]>:
>:
>: >... There are more and more countries in Asia that are adding CDMA
>: >networks, so these phones might make sense for someone that needs the
>: >better coverage offered by CDMA in the U.S., but that wants to use GSM
>: >in Europe and Asia.
>:
>: Just the opposite -- CDMA2000 (not W-CDMA) is actually fading; e.g.,
>: Sprint-Nextel going with WiMAX, not to mention countries like India.
>
>John, you keep saying that about India, but I don't believe it for a
>picosecond. India has a billion people, most of them too poor to easily junk
>their old phones and buy new ones. They may indeed create a GSM network, but
>if they have a CDMA network of any size (I'll take your word for that), it's
>almost inconceivable that they could simply walk away from it.

<http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2006/08/10/stories/2006081001880400.htm>

Rajasthan based Shyam Telecom has become the third operator in recent
months to apply for spectrum for offering GSM based services despite
having a full-fledged CDMA based operations. Shyam Telecom has
applied to the Department of Telecom for fresh spectrum in the GSM
band.

Earlier, Reliance Communication and Punjab based HFCL had applied for
GSM spectrum. This leaves Tata Teleservices as the only operator to
stick with CDMA technology in the country. State-owned Bharat Sanchar
Nigam Ltd has also decided to roll out fixed wireless telephone
services using GSM technology even though it was using the CDMA
technology for that service until now.

>As for Sprint-Nextel, are you seriously suggesting that they're going to
>replace their CDMA voice network with WiMAX? I'll believe that when I see it
>too. In fact, I'd bet that a significant portion of Sprint's revenue comes
>from being Verizon's surrogate along Interstate highways in non-Verizon
>territory. Without their CDMA network, that income would evaporate.

The WiMAX bet is pretty big, but of course only time will tell.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>