Re: My experience at Cingular today...

aqdf@aol.com (d) wrote in
news:468c9075$0$14988$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

> At any rate I just wanted to pass this along. I'm sure this is
> probably common place for most carriers but where does invasion of
> privacy end? I'm sure this will fly right over the head of some.

It certainly is common, and not unlike many other situations where
you're receiving what's essentially unsecured credit.

The requirement to provide your mother's maiden name is ostensibly to
protect you, since they use it as a way to verify your identity when
you call to make changes to your account. If it freaks you out, you
could certainly provide anything that sounds like a name, so long as
you can remember it later.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

Bert Hyman wrote:
> aqdf@aol.com (d) wrote in
> news:468c9075$0$14988$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>
>> At any rate I just wanted to pass this along. I'm sure this is
>> probably common place for most carriers but where does invasion of
>> privacy end? I'm sure this will fly right over the head of some.
>
> It certainly is common, and not unlike many other situations where
> you're receiving what's essentially unsecured credit.
>
> The requirement to provide your mother's maiden name is ostensibly to
> protect you, since they use it as a way to verify your identity when
> you call to make changes to your account. If it freaks you out, you
> could certainly provide anything that sounds like a name, so long as
> you can remember it later.
>


In this case, the SSN and DL# are totally irrelevant and should be
refused without discussion. For the rest, I lie like a rug.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

gdunn@airmail.ten (Jer) wrote in
news:138q8nu75ps8h4f@corp.supernews.com:

> In this case, the SSN and DL# are totally irrelevant and should be
> refused without discussion.

For some reason, the SSN has become the key to your credit history at
the major credit reporting services. Many businesses explicitly state
that while you don't have to give them your SSN, they don't have to
do business with you either.

I have no idea what they can do with a DL number.

> For the rest, I lie like a rug.

If it works for you, why not?

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

On 2007-07-05, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:
> Bert Hyman wrote:
>> aqdf@aol.com (d) wrote in
>> news:468c9075$0$14988$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>>
>>> At any rate I just wanted to pass this along. I'm sure this is
>>> probably common place for most carriers but where does invasion of
>>> privacy end? I'm sure this will fly right over the head of some.
>>
>> It certainly is common, and not unlike many other situations where
>> you're receiving what's essentially unsecured credit.
>>
>> The requirement to provide your mother's maiden name is ostensibly to
>> protect you, since they use it as a way to verify your identity when
>> you call to make changes to your account. If it freaks you out, you
>> could certainly provide anything that sounds like a name, so long as
>> you can remember it later.
>>
>
>
> In this case, the SSN and DL# are totally irrelevant and should be
> refused without discussion. For the rest, I lie like a rug.

Actually the SSN is required for them to do a credit check (and for
them to report to the credit agencies if you stiff them for a bill).
I'd be surprised if they'd grant you unsecured credit without doing a
credit check; without it I'd normally expect them to demand a deposit
for post-paid service, and to decline to enable international long
distance and roaming on the account to limit their exposure to
late-arriving real-currency charges to your account.

They want your driver's license to try to reduce identity fraud, where
you claim to be someone else whose address and SSN you somehow have
knowledge of (or, at least, they want it so they can argue it really
was you if you later claim identity fraud). I have no idea what they
do if you don't produce one.

On the other hand if you can really get unrestricted, post-paid service
from them without providing this and while lying about everything else,
that's a good deal if you can get it. Most people can't.

Dennis Ferguson

At 05 Jul 2007 17:01:53 +0000 Bert Hyman wrote:

> For some reason, the SSN has become the key to your credit history at
> the major credit reporting services.

Not for "some reason," for a very obvious and specific reason. The
advent of computers and databases demanded a unique ID field for each
record. No other number or descriptor of you is as unique or permanent.
How many phone numbers have you had in your lifetime? How many
addresses? Are you the only person in the US with your exact first,
middle, last name?

However, unless something slipped up in the system, you are certainly the
only living person with your SSN.

> Many businesses explicitly state
> that while you don't have to give them your SSN, they don't have to
> do business with you either.

I've never seen the big deal in giving a creditor my SSN. Sure, identity
theft is a possible issue, but the only victim of "identity theft" I ever
knew personally was my father. His oldest son (a "junior" so they had
the same name) bought a car in the 1950's using my father's name,
address, home and work telephone numbers, and a utility bill or two with
my Dad's name on them. He'd never have gotten away with it today,
because the more detailed credit info available (including SSNs!)
would've tossed out such an obvious and amateur attempt at fraud.

Identity theft has been around for a long time- the current problems have
less to do with the numbers we use (like SSNs) and more to do with credit
bureaus' reluctance to quickly fix problems when they arise or correct
wrong information, and creditors unwillingness to investigate fraudulent
accounts rather than just send them to collection.

For example, I recently received a credit card solictation to my business
with the correct business name and address, but a name I never heard of.
The credit card company said that was the info they "had on file" given
and refered me to one of the big crdit bureaus (Experion, IIRC) they get
their info from. For the life of me I couldn't get to a human through
the voice menusof the number I was given unless I was a paid subscriber
of their services and input my ID and PW into their VRU!

After awhile I gave up and Googled for contact numbers but could never
get transferred to a person that cared that they had incorrect info since
no credit had actually been issued to this incorrect/nonexistant owner of
MY business! The gist I got from them was that wrong info in their
database isn't their problem until someone is injured by it! As my time
was too valuable to waste anymore of it on this nonsense I hung up and
got on with my life. Maybe someday if my business gets in trouble with
the IRS, I'll sic them on that guy and tell them Experion knows where to
find him! ;-)


> I have no idea what they can do with a DL number.


Not much really- generally recording the DL number is supposedly a way to
insure the person taking your application in person actually at least
glanced at your DL to see if you were actually you.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Dennis Ferguson wrote:
> On 2007-07-05, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:
>> Bert Hyman wrote:
>>> aqdf@aol.com (d) wrote in
>>> news:468c9075$0$14988$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>>>
>>>> At any rate I just wanted to pass this along. I'm sure this is
>>>> probably common place for most carriers but where does invasion of
>>>> privacy end? I'm sure this will fly right over the head of some.
>>> It certainly is common, and not unlike many other situations where
>>> you're receiving what's essentially unsecured credit.
>>>
>>> The requirement to provide your mother's maiden name is ostensibly to
>>> protect you, since they use it as a way to verify your identity when
>>> you call to make changes to your account. If it freaks you out, you
>>> could certainly provide anything that sounds like a name, so long as
>>> you can remember it later.
>>>
>>
>> In this case, the SSN and DL# are totally irrelevant and should be
>> refused without discussion. For the rest, I lie like a rug.
>
> Actually the SSN is required for them to do a credit check (and for
> them to report to the credit agencies if you stiff them for a bill).
> I'd be surprised if they'd grant you unsecured credit without doing a
> credit check; without it I'd normally expect them to demand a deposit
> for post-paid service, and to decline to enable international long
> distance and roaming on the account to limit their exposure to
> late-arriving real-currency charges to your account.
>
> They want your driver's license to try to reduce identity fraud, where
> you claim to be someone else whose address and SSN you somehow have
> knowledge of (or, at least, they want it so they can argue it really
> was you if you later claim identity fraud). I have no idea what they
> do if you don't produce one.
>
> On the other hand if you can really get unrestricted, post-paid service
> from them without providing this and while lying about everything else,
> that's a good deal if you can get it. Most people can't.
>
> Dennis Ferguson


Having read all the posts here about the SSN being inextricably tied to
credit histories, I think it's time for full disclosure...

Apparently, my perspective is more dated than I supposed - I've never
had a loan nor credit card. I still use cash and never had any problems
with it. I have an SSN tied to banks, taxes, and retirement issues. If
ID is required, one of my passports has been sufficient. When I got my
cell phone, my passport was sufficient, and the account is post paid via
e-billing.

As I said, if anyone wants to know my name, they better have a legal
need to know it if they want to hear the truth.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

At 05 Jul 2007 18:21:36 -0500 Jer wrote:

> When I got my cell phone, my passport was sufficient, and the account
> is post paid via e-billing.
With Cingular? Without a deposit?

I used to be a Cingular dealer, and many of my clients weren't handing
out their SSN to anyone. Not one ever secured a contract without a
deposit. (Except one guy who agreed to give the last four digits-
apparently they were able to verify his credit with that.) Even with an
SSN, most people with no credit history were assessed a deposit of $200
or so (bad credit history netted you $500-750.)





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

At 05 Jul 2007 18:21:36 -0500 Jer wrote:

> When I got my cell phone, my passport was sufficient, and the account
> is post paid via e-billing.

With Cingular? Without a deposit?

I used to be a Cingular dealer, and many of my clients weren't handing
out their SSN to anyone. Not one ever secured a contract without a
deposit. (Except one guy who agreed to give the last four digits-
apparently they were able to verify his credit with that.) Even with an
SSN, most people with no credit history were assessed a deposit of $200
or so (bad credit history netted you $500-750.)





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in message
news:468d37d0$1$11761$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
<snip>
> After awhile I gave up and Googled for contact numbers but could never
> get transferred to a person that cared that they had incorrect info since
> no credit had actually been issued to this incorrect/nonexistant owner of
> MY business! The gist I got from them was that wrong info in their
> database isn't their problem until someone is injured by it! As my time
> was too valuable to waste anymore of it on this nonsense I hung up and
> got on with my life. Maybe someday if my business gets in trouble with
> the IRS, I'll sic them on that guy and tell them Experion knows where to
> find him! ;-)

In New York State the Attorney General has received judgment on this very
issue. It is up to the credit reporting agencies to "quickly correct the
inaccuracies" and there must be a way for them to do so. (Phone, Postal
Address etc)

In calling Experian formally TRW I simply hit the "ZERO" key and I can get a
live person. I know "Live" is some what a laugh. The address they give you
on the recording also has to be valid, so there are ways to get the problem
fixed.

Elector