Re: Possible windfall for early buyers of the iPhone

At 07 Sep 2007 10:14:36 -0700 M. MacDonald wrote:

> I was told it is a credit in an Apple Store purchase. No cash.
> Jobs gets
> the credit money back. Such sincerity.
>

IMHO, it's fair. Perhaps not overly generous, but certainly fair.

>
> Link: http://tinyurl.com/2os8zu
>
> Then I see, link off the bottom of the same page above called "Apple
> Snubs AT&T, Hoses Early iPhone Buyers" and "iPhone: Flaky Device
> Overrated,
> Expectations Out of Hand" that he is quarreling with AT&T and going
> to offer
> iPhones Wi-Fi through Starbucks which is T-Mobile.


All unresearched opinion written by the same blogger.


> No wonder AT&T is going to market the HTC Super Smart phones like
> the forthcoming HTC TyTn II.

AT&T has no obligations to stop selling other Smartphones- even Apple
knows their product doesn't directly compete with enterprise-class
RIM or WinMo devices. They never intended it to.

> Maybe the Apple promise of "x number of iPhones on
> AT&T" didn't meet the expectations of AT&T's bandwidth for all the
> other Smartphones on the horizon (Nokia N95 8gig too) so they are
> cutting back on iPhone bandwidth so Job's is researching other
> network options aka Starbucks and T-Mobile.


"Cutting back on bandwidth?" Please. It's a phone- data isn't
allocated to manufacturers! The Starbucks deal is a simple cross
promotion thing. Coffee buyers see iPhone/iPod/iTunes signs, and
iPhone/iPod owners see a Starbucks icon on their phone. The T-Mobile
connection, while ironic, is a red herring- if Starbucks used
Boingo's network the same deal would've been done.

iPhones, like TyTns and N95s, have WiFi. Nothing prevents AT&T WiFi
phone owners from buying T-Mo's WiFi "Hotspots" service
($19.99/month.)
It has nothing to do with thecellular service.


--

"I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003

> "Todd Allcock" wrote:
>> Maybe the Apple promise of "x number of iPhones on
>> AT&T" didn't meet the expectations of AT&T's bandwidth for all the
>> other Smartphones on the horizon (Nokia N95 8gig too) so they are
>> cutting back on iPhone bandwidth so Job's is researching other
>> network options aka Starbucks and T-Mobile.
>
> "Cutting back on bandwidth?" Please. It's a phone- data isn't
> allocated to manufacturers! The Starbucks deal is a simple cross
> promotion thing. Coffee buyers see iPhone/iPod/iTunes signs, and
> iPhone/iPod owners see a Starbucks icon on their phone. The T-Mobile
> connection, while ironic, is a red herring- if Starbucks used
> Boingo's network the same deal would've been done.
>
> iPhones, like TyTns and N95s, have WiFi. Nothing prevents AT&T WiFi
> phone owners from buying T-Mo's WiFi "Hotspots" service
> ($19.99/month.)
> It has nothing to do with thecellular service.

Could be right Todd. If you saw today's news, Comcast cut "Unlimited
Internet" service to their customers who pay for "Unlimited Service" by
doing heavy downloads - i.e. "no connection available" at all! The HTC TyTn
II runs Windows Mobile 6 and doesn't need to run server based as does the
iPhone and it is supposedly to run on 3.5g so it will be very fast with far
more features like the ability to scan in business cards, and will run GPS
as well. Apple sees the writing and cannot compete with it unless they dump
the iPhone for a newer model that will knock down the HTC. I doubt if it
will happen as Apple prefers the user to be tied to their service like
sealed-in batteries and no slot for any other memory rather than tying up a
computer or server to make the exchange (HTC got that right as did Nokia).

Unfortunately, as has always been Apple's problem, very little software is
written for it compared to Windows based anything. Plus, Bill Gates has
backed HTC now so the iPhone is going to have a very short sales run except
to the Apple people who buy into Apple's sales "gimmicks" which are very
good. HTC makes a lot of manufacture's phones and no doubt learned form
their mistakes. Now they go it one their own having learned those mistakes.
Just wished it were cheaper than $1000 but that will change as did the
iPhone (I hope!).

Glad I didn't jump on the iPhone bandwagon - and now certainly won't.
There's always something better around the corner.

B~

In article
<EKlEi.505949$p47.224184@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"B. Peg" <bent_peg@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> Unfortunately, as has always been Apple's problem, very little software is
> written for it compared to Windows based anything.

Yes, no "ClosetRemodel 3D" available for Mac. Damn those software
developers.
We have so few programs it makes me cry at night.

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

At 08 Sep 2007 00:09:08 +0000 B. Peg wrote:

> Just wished it were cheaper than $1000 but that will change as did
the
> iPhone (I hope!).
>
> Glad I didn't jump on the iPhone bandwagon - and now certainly won't.

> There's always something better around the corner.


For $1000 it better make dinner and do the dishes as well...

--

"I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003

On 8 Sep, 01:09, "B. Peg" <bent_...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> Glad I didn't jump on the iPhone bandwagon - and now certainly won't.
> There's always something better around the corner.

That's how it works nowadays - there's always something better around
the corner. If you decide to never buy a tech product because
something better will turn up soon, you'll never buy anything.

My personal strategy is to buy last season's best thing. That way I
get charged the lower price (prices nearly always go down a while
after first release - though not usually as quickly as what happened
with the iPhone), any "bugs" in the item will have been discovered and
sorted, and I get to own a gadget or whatever that is pretty damn good
- not as good as the "latest thing", but good nevertheless.

B. Peg wrote:

>Glad I didn't jump on the iPhone bandwagon - and now certainly won't.
>There's always something better around the corner.

Yeah? Then you may never buy anything, because they will always be
"something better around the corner".

Although I will say a $200 drop, this early in the product cycle, is a
bit of a kick in the nads for the early buyers...

dapunka wrote:

>My personal strategy is to buy last season's best thing. That way I
>get charged the lower price

That works especially well for cameras. You can get a nice one with a
high-quality lens for a low price because it has "only" X megapixels
(like you need that many anyway - 2 megapixels fills a computer screen
plenty well).

>"dapunka" wrote:
>> Glad I didn't jump on the iPhone bandwagon - and now certainly won't.
>> There's always something better around the corner.
>
> That's how it works nowadays - there's always something better around
> the corner. If you decide to never buy a tech product because
> something better will turn up soon, you'll never buy anything.

True, but at least I wouldn't be the owner of a product that has been
discontinued like Apple's 4gig iPhone. That has to be one of the shortest
product runs ever at 2 1/2 months before being discontinued!

Soon it will be once you stand in line, it'll be obsolete by the time you
get to the register.

No more Apple's here. I think I'll wait for a product that has been out at
least 4 months before being discontinued or qualifying for a "credit."

Since foreign countries have better and even faster goods to market than the
U.S., I doubt if the iPhone will be worth anything overseas against their
current product lines. Sad really.

B~

"B. Peg" <bent_peg@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> > That's how it works nowadays - there's always something better around
> > the corner. If you decide to never buy a tech product because
> > something better will turn up soon, you'll never buy anything.
>
> True, but at least I wouldn't be the owner of a product that has been
> discontinued like Apple's 4gig iPhone. That has to be one of the shortest
> product runs ever at 2 1/2 months before being discontinued!

yes, but in the Apple world, Apple products are supported far longer
than any other company does. Even Apple's 6 year old iPod is well
supported to this day. You can't say that about Nokia or Moto phones, or
any MP3 player other than Apple. I like the stuff since you get more
value when you buy from them. I don't like crap, so having the better
device and the longer lifetime is important.

> Soon it will be once you stand in line, it'll be obsolete by the time you
> get to the register.

That's been true for 1000's of years, so not sure what you mean.

> No more Apple's here. I think I'll wait for a product that has been out at
> least 4 months before being discontinued or qualifying for a "credit."

You mean... "you've never owned an apple product before", so are trying
to bluff the readership, nice try, but buzz, you've been caught in a
lie. If you do wait 4 months you run the risk on the other side of
having just bought, but a new model comes out. While I agree Apple's
$100 drop in 70 days is a little fast, it's right in line with the
industry when you think about it.

> Since foreign countries have better and even faster goods to market than the
> U.S., I doubt if the iPhone will be worth anything overseas against their
> current product lines. Sad really.

Well, the other countries don't have the technical resources to build
something on the level of an iPhone, so even 3-4 years from now the
iPhone will still be the top tech product / top cell phone in those 2nd
world countries.

-

dapunka <dapunka@googlemail.com> wrote in news:1189242280.173817.299060@
50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

> My personal strategy is to buy last season's best thing. That way I
> get charged the lower price (prices nearly always go down a while
> after first release - though not usually as quickly as what happened
> with the iPhone), any "bugs" in the item will have been discovered and
> sorted, and I get to own a gadget or whatever that is pretty damn good
> - not as good as the "latest thing", but good nevertheless.
>
>
>

Just down the street from each other, here, is Best Buy and Circuit City.

If I'm going to buy something from one of them, I'll take a copy of the
price tag to the other for the price match + 10 or 15%. Then, you take
that receipt to the first store and get THEIR price match + 10 or 15% for
even more discounting....returning the first product you bought without
even opening the package. It's a handy piece of change on same-priced
items costing hundreds of dollars! I don't mind playing these stupid
mind games...really. Best Buy marked the 750GB Western Digital My Book
Essential Edition (USB port only) down to $179.95, the best price I've
ever seen, including the net, for a couple of days. I played the game
and ended up paying $157 for a really nice 750GB USB external drive that
sells for nearly twice that anywhere else....(c; Even has 158 GB still
free after a week on my system!

Two days later, the price was $279 for it...and holding. I think someone
screwed up....TS.

Larry
--
Netgear MR814 v3 wireless router - $3.99 - thrift shop this week...(c;
Power supply and box but no instruction sheet....like new!

chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in
news:9k65e3dshs0tlk4p73ujprt2kh2dsdgnnb@4ax.com:

> 2 megapixels fills a computer screen
> plenty well).
>

There's a new electronics rule.....

Any camera worth anything must have 8 times the number of pixels your most
intense monitor can display....(c;

Larry
--
Jumbotron can't display 12 megapixels, can it??

Larry wrote:

> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in
> news:9k65e3dshs0tlk4p73ujprt2kh2dsdgnnb@4ax.com:
>
>> 2 megapixels fills a computer screen
>> plenty well).
>>
>
> There's a new electronics rule.....
>
> Any camera worth anything must have 8 times the number of pixels your most
> intense monitor can display....(c;
>
> Larry

Ah, yes
This advertising broadcast has been ...
--
Perl - the only language that looks the same before and after RSA
encryption.
-- Keith Bostic

> "Oxford" wrote:
>>... That has to be one of the shortest
>> product runs ever at 2 1/2 months before being discontinued!
>
> yes, but in the Apple world, Apple products are supported far longer
> than any other company does. Even Apple's 6 year old iPod is well
> supported to this day. You can't say that about Nokia or Moto phones, or
> any MP3 player other than Apple. I like the stuff since you get more
> value when you buy from them. I don't like crap, so having the better
> device and the longer lifetime is important.

You think?

Gee. I have owned Archo's products for years now. At least they were smart
and put the battery externally where one could switch it out and keep
listening rather than needing to be near a power source. I chose it over my
friend's ipod since he had to send his off more than once for battery
issues. Plus, I am able to show movies as well as record off the Dish
Network satellite receiver directly to it via USB. Music sounds far better
off it too than my friends ipod, but it also costs far more too. At least I
am not tied to Apple Service to keep it running like an ipod.


>> Soon it will be once you stand in line, it'll be obsolete by the time you
>> get to the register.
>
> That's been true for 1000's of years, so not sure what you mean.

2 1/2 months until obsolescence?

>> No more Apple's here. I think I'll wait for a product that has been out
>> at
>> least 4 months before being discontinued or qualifying for a "credit."
>
> You mean... "you've never owned an apple product before", so are trying
> to bluff the readership, nice try, but buzz, you've been caught in a
> lie.

We have Apple computers at work. They are good for elementary school kids,
but hardly good if you want to run any engineering programs. Software is so
rare for Apple's that you need an emulator to run Windows based programs on
them. Worse is when you wait on the phone for Apple Support for "The
estimated time until you call can be answered is 2 hours 14 minutes." You
can't be serious!

We changed to Gateways and Windows XP Pro. Fwiw, they came with iTunes also.
Don't know what that was all about.

> While I agree Apple's
> $100 drop in 70 days is a little fast, it's right in line with the
> industry when you think about it.

It is? More like $200. Even x-Box didn't drop that fast.

> >> Since foreign countries have better and even faster goods to market
> >> than the
>> U.S., I doubt if the iPhone will be worth anything overseas against their
>> current product lines. Sad really.
>
> Well, the other countries don't have the technical resources to build
> something on the level of an iPhone,

I thought the iPhone was built in China? Seems very similar to one of the
LG's too.

China has the technology and their internet is faster (U.S. is still copper
based, and they and other developing nations are optical fiber based).
Finland will set the speed records so any phone hardware from them and
possibly Korea will be the ones to watch.

> so even 3-4 years from now the
> iPhone will still be the top tech product / top cell phone in those 2nd
> world countries.

Doubt it. With the roll out of 3.5G and whatever else is on the horizon,
the current will need to adjust and the U.S. is no longer a first world
order technological giant. Restrictions and litigation are to great in the
U.S. It's now overseas countries that are moving ahead. The cell network in
the U.S. is too slow to change verses other countries. That is one reason
Nokia who has about 35% of the phone sales overall, fell out of grace with
AT&T as they moved away from the 850 frequency to 900 Mhz. The N95 didn't
adopt to the older U.S. system. They had to go back to making Quad-band
phone N95 8gig model to satisfy the FCC for U.S. operation.

The smaller, 2nd world countries as you call them, are in a far better
position to update their entire networks than the U.S. due to the size of
the geography alone. Finland and Korea can change their entire system out
in weeks compared to the U.S. landmass that would take years - assuming cell
towers are 5-8 miles apart.

All Job's hyped copyrights on the iPhone will stifle growth in the U.S.
market as well. His money will come from lawsuits on similar products in
the U.S. which other countries can ignore and move on. Who will it
ultimately hurt? The consumer. (Same basic argument for Mp3 music files as
well, but don't get me on that one!). I expect HTC and LG to become
stronger in the Asian markets and European as well. Nokia and others,
should they wish to continue sales in the U.S., will need to satisfy our
older network.

B~

"B. Peg" <bent_peg@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> > yes, but in the Apple world, Apple products are supported far longer
> > than any other company does. Even Apple's 6 year old iPod is well
> > supported to this day. You can't say that about Nokia or Moto phones, or
> > any MP3 player other than Apple. I like the stuff since you get more
> > value when you buy from them. I don't like crap, so having the better
> > device and the longer lifetime is important.
>
> You think?
>
> Gee. I have owned Archo's products for years now. At least they were smart
> and put the battery externally where one could switch it out and keep
> listening rather than needing to be near a power source. I chose it over my
> friend's ipod since he had to send his off more than once for battery
> issues. Plus, I am able to show movies as well as record off the Dish
> Network satellite receiver directly to it via USB. Music sounds far better
> off it too than my friends ipod, but it also costs far more too. At least I
> am not tied to Apple Service to keep it running like an ipod.

the Archo product is just too big and poorly built for my consideration.
Sound quality is actually better on the iPod according to tests, so not
sure what that is about. And no, the iPod hasn't been in for service
more than once. don't lie.

> >> Soon it will be once you stand in line, it'll be obsolete by the time you
> >> get to the register.
> >
> > That's been true for 1000's of years, so not sure what you mean.
>
> 2 1/2 months until obsolescence?

ah, nothing has been made obsolete, just a price drop of $200, but it's
the exact same model, so you might want to read up on the events to
learn more.

> We have Apple computers at work. They are good for elementary school kids,
> but hardly good if you want to run any engineering programs. Software is so
> rare for Apple's that you need an emulator to run Windows based programs on
> them. Worse is when you wait on the phone for Apple Support for "The
> estimated time until you call can be answered is 2 hours 14 minutes." You
> can't be serious!

Depends on what you have a work, yes, Apple does have models designed
for Kids, but they have very high end professional models too.

> We changed to Gateways and Windows XP Pro. Fwiw, they came with iTunes also.
> Don't know what that was all about.

Gateway? That was surely a step down for the people that used the Macs,
I bet the hate them.

> > While I agree Apple's
> > $100 drop in 70 days is a little fast, it's right in line with the
> > industry when you think about it.
>
> It is? More like $200. Even x-Box didn't drop that fast.

No, it was just $100 drop since anyone that bought one gets $100 back,
do the math. Kinda cool, I don't remember MS being that good to their
customers with the Xbox, even when they had to recall almost all of them
for product failure.

> > Well, the other countries don't have the technical resources to build
> > something on the level of an iPhone,
>
> I thought the iPhone was built in China? Seems very similar to one of the
> LG's too.

Of course numbnuts, but they are built to Apple's california engineering
specs. China has no resources to make them, they just snap them together
with their little fingers.

> China has the technology and their internet is faster (U.S. is still copper
> based, and they and other developing nations are optical fiber based).
> Finland will set the speed records so any phone hardware from them and
> possibly Korea will be the ones to watch.

Maybe because China doesn't allow their people to use the regular
internet?

> > so even 3-4 years from now the
> > iPhone will still be the top tech product / top cell phone in those 2nd
> > world countries.
>
> Doubt it. With the roll out of 3.5G and whatever else is on the horizon,
> the current will need to adjust and the U.S. is no longer a first world
> order technological giant. Restrictions and litigation are to great in the
> U.S. It's now overseas countries that are moving ahead. The cell network in
> the U.S. is too slow to change verses other countries. That is one reason
> Nokia who has about 35% of the phone sales overall, fell out of grace with
> AT&T as they moved away from the 850 frequency to 900 Mhz. The N95 didn't
> adopt to the older U.S. system. They had to go back to making Quad-band
> phone N95 8gig model to satisfy the FCC for U.S. operation.

3.5G is still far slower than normal WiFi so I wouldn't need it but
maybe 5-10% of the time. Yes, the US system is screwed up, but not much
Apple can do about that. The europe iPhone will obviously have 3 or 3.5G
we'll know in about a month.

> The smaller, 2nd world countries as you call them, are in a far better
> position to update their entire networks than the U.S. due to the size of
> the geography alone. Finland and Korea can change their entire system out
> in weeks compared to the U.S. landmass that would take years - assuming cell
> towers are 5-8 miles apart.

Yes, tiny countries with small populations have an advantage.

> All Job's hyped copyrights on the iPhone will stifle growth in the U.S.
> market as well. His money will come from lawsuits on similar products in
> the U.S. which other countries can ignore and move on. Who will it
> ultimately hurt? The consumer. (Same basic argument for Mp3 music files as
> well, but don't get me on that one!). I expect HTC and LG to become
> stronger in the Asian markets and European as well. Nokia and others,
> should they wish to continue sales in the U.S., will need to satisfy our
> older network.

But nobody in Europe has the ability to make highly advanced phones such
as the iPhone, so it will quickly become the number 1 smart phone in
europe and remain that way for decades. Apple just knows how to build
products like no other company on the planet. Smaller, faster, lighter,
better battery life, Apple will kill all the european phones in a matter
of a year or so.

Nice talking with you.

-

"B. Peg" <bent_peg@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>

> > We have Apple computers at work. They are good for elementary school kids,
> > but hardly good if you want to run any engineering programs. Software is
> > so
> > rare for Apple's that you need an emulator to run Windows based programs on
> > them.

Yes, "ClosetDesign 3D" is not avalable for Mac.
Damn those developers.

My 500K + a year business run only on Macs has been crippled by this
lack of software.
I cry every night about this.

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