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  1. #16

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    On Sep 10, 1:18 pm, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    > At 10 Sep 2007 19:17:15 +0000 Dennis Ferguson wrote:
    >
    > > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
    > > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
    > > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.

    >
    > Ah, the "catch"- thanks. Can you turn it on and off (i.e. a month at
    > a time) or does it have a term committment? Even a month's fee seems
    > reasonable for a week abroad vs. the standard rate.
    >
    > > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
    > > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.

    >
    > About the same as T-Mo, then (T-Mo is at $16/MB, IIRC, now.)
    >
    > > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
    > > bill without trying too hard.

    >
    > Certainly.
    >
    > > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
    > > the phone on?

    >
    > The folks that have unlocked them seem to have no trouble
    > provisioning them for T-Mo, so I assume the data settings are
    > available, but I have no first hand knowledge- I don't currently, nor
    > do I have any plans to, own one.
    >
    > > If not, that would be a design problem.

    >
    > Agreed, but not an insurmountable one- as a last resort you could
    > simply delete your IMAP accounts and there'd be nothing to sync to.
    >
    > I'm almost as bad- when I travel outside the US, I rename my APN to
    > an invalid one just in case I forget to turn off auto-retrieval!
    >
    > I certainly don't mean to sound unsympathetic to the people in the
    > posted article- I was really just pointing out that it's not a
    > problem specific to "iPhones." With the ever-growing popularity of
    > smartphones, international travel can be hazardous to your wallet
    > without precautions! (As you well know better than most of us!) ;-)
    >



    What really gets my goat is *why* does International Data have to be
    this expensive in the first place? This seems very ass backward to me,
    sort of like the pricing structures of "information services" like
    Compuserve were 25 years ago.

    And $M$? Total rip off, thats why I never use it..




    See More: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800




  2. #17
    Tim Adams
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:

    > At 10 Sep 2007 09:16:18 -0700 SMS wrote:
    >
    > > That's a very bad design flaw to have it automatically do those
    > > updates.

    >
    > One might argue that RIM created an entire business model out of just
    > that "flaw." ;-)
    > Automatic e-mail retrieval is a feature of virtually every high-end
    > phone. This was an unfortunate case of user ignorance, not a failure
    > of phone design.


    Automatically retrieving email can be turned off in the iPhone.

    --
    regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
    you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
    the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm



  3. #18
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    At 10 Sep 2007 21:12:03 +0000 Dennis Ferguson wrote:

    > It is always possible to cancel term service in the first 30 days,
    > however, if one has the self discipline to do it. I've actually
    > been tempted to take the laptop plan for a particular trip and
    > cancel when I get back, but my organizational skills are such
    > that I've been scared I'll end up paying a couple of months plus
    > the ETF.


    More importantly, I assume there is a finite number of times you
    could get away with it! ("Uh, Mr. Ferguson, what makes you think
    you'll enjoy this service any more THIS time than you did that week
    in February, the two weeks last June or the first time you tried it a
    year ago March?") ;-)


    --

    "I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
    or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
    all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
    ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003





  4. #19
    Tim Adams
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Alan Baker <[email protected]> wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    > > "Dennis Ferguson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T charges
    > > >> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
    > > >> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
    > > >>
    > > >> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
    > > >> via e-mail? XP Service packs?
    > > >
    > > > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
    > > > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
    > > > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
    > > >
    > > > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
    > > > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
    > > > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
    > > > bill without trying too hard.
    > > >
    > > > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
    > > > the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
    > > >
    > > > Dennis Ferguson

    > >
    > > Yes, according to the manual it is very easy have the device only check
    > > manually. See below:
    > >
    > > [Set whether iPhone checks for new messages automatically
    > >
    > > From the Home screen choose Settings > Mail > Auto-Check, then tap Manual,
    > > “Every
    > >
    > > 15 minutes,” “Every 30 minutes,” or “Every hour.”] p 50 of Iphone manual
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Real easy, but in all fairness to the OP I might have gotten bit on this
    > > myself. Oh well.

    >
    > And it's my understanding that the default setting is to check for mail
    > *manually*.
    >
    > Not to mention that the iPhone doesn't check for mail when it is turned
    > off...


    By 'turned off' you mean completely powered down. Just pressing the off switch
    to blank the screen does NOT stop it from checking email IF you have it set to
    check automatically.

    --
    regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
    you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
    the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm



  5. #20
    Alan Baker
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    In article
    <teadams$2$0$0$3-F5D853.18333210092007@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>
    ,
    Tim Adams <[email protected]> wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Alan Baker <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > "John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > > "Dennis Ferguson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > > >> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T charges
    > > > >> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
    > > > >> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
    > > > >>
    > > > >> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
    > > > >> via e-mail? XP Service packs?
    > > > >
    > > > > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
    > > > > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
    > > > > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
    > > > >
    > > > > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
    > > > > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
    > > > > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
    > > > > bill without trying too hard.
    > > > >
    > > > > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
    > > > > the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
    > > > >
    > > > > Dennis Ferguson
    > > >
    > > > Yes, according to the manual it is very easy have the device only check
    > > > manually. See below:
    > > >
    > > > [Set whether iPhone checks for new messages automatically
    > > >
    > > > From the Home screen choose Settings > Mail > Auto-Check, then tap
    > > > Manual,
    > > > “Every
    > > >
    > > > 15 minutes,” “Every 30 minutes,” or “Every hour.”] p 50 of Iphone manual
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Real easy, but in all fairness to the OP I might have gotten bit on this
    > > > myself. Oh well.

    > >
    > > And it's my understanding that the default setting is to check for mail
    > > *manually*.
    > >
    > > Not to mention that the iPhone doesn't check for mail when it is turned
    > > off...

    >
    > By 'turned off' you mean completely powered down. Just pressing the off
    > switch
    > to blank the screen does NOT stop it from checking email IF you have it set
    > to
    > check automatically.


    Of course, by "turned off", I mean "turned off". :-)

    --
    Alan Baker
    Vancouver, British Columbia
    "If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
    to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
    sit in the bottom of that cupboard."



  6. #21
    Tinman
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    "Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:
    > Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> I'm certainly not a fanboy, and have given the iPhone a few solid
    >> knocks where I felt it deserved it, but please- how is this
    >> "sucker's" experience different from anyone who takes their world-
    >> band smartphone overseas and doesn't disable data? The guy next to
    >> him on the cruise with a Blackberry or Treo is getting hit with the
    >> same charges.

    >
    > No, the guy next to him on the cruise with the BB or Treo can turn his
    > phone OFF, as in all the way off. The iPhone, no such way exists,
    > apparently.
    >



    Wow. The nonsense spewed in this thread is astounding.


    --
    Mike



  7. #22
    Tinman
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    "Tim Adams" wrote:
    > Alan Baker <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> In article <[email protected]>,
    >> "John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >>
    >> > "Dennis Ferguson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> > news:[email protected]...
    >> > > On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> > >> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T
    >> > >> charges
    >> > >> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
    >> > >> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
    >> > >>
    >> > >> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
    >> > >> via e-mail? XP Service packs?
    >> > >
    >> > > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
    >> > > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
    >> > > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
    >> > >
    >> > > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
    >> > > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
    >> > > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
    >> > > bill without trying too hard.
    >> > >
    >> > > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
    >> > > the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
    >> > >
    >> > > Dennis Ferguson
    >> >
    >> > Yes, according to the manual it is very easy have the device only check
    >> > manually. See below:
    >> >
    >> > [Set whether iPhone checks for new messages automatically
    >> >
    >> > From the Home screen choose Settings > Mail > Auto-Check, then tap
    >> > Manual,
    >> > "Every
    >> >
    >> > 15 minutes," "Every 30 minutes," or "Every hour."] p 50 of Iphone
    >> > manual
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Real easy, but in all fairness to the OP I might have gotten bit on
    >> > this
    >> > myself. Oh well.

    >>
    >> And it's my understanding that the default setting is to check for mail
    >> *manually*.
    >>
    >> Not to mention that the iPhone doesn't check for mail when it is turned
    >> off...

    >
    > By 'turned off' you mean completely powered down. Just pressing the off
    > switch
    > to blank the screen does NOT stop it from checking email IF you have it
    > set to
    > check automatically.


    Uh, "turned off" means turned off. There is no "off switch," it's the--you
    won't believe this--"sleep" button. When pressed it--again, hard to
    believe--puts the iPhone to, well, sleep.

    Sleep is not, in any way, the same as "off." When the iPhone is off it does
    not--can not--check mail.

    Can't believe this actually has to be *****ed out. Tune in next week while
    we debate making phone calls while in "Airplane Mode."


    --
    Mike




  8. #23
    Kurt
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] wrote:

    > On Sep 10, 1:18 pm, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > At 10 Sep 2007 19:17:15 +0000 Dennis Ferguson wrote:
    > >
    > > > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
    > > > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
    > > > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.

    > >
    > > Ah, the "catch"- thanks. Can you turn it on and off (i.e. a month at
    > > a time) or does it have a term committment? Even a month's fee seems
    > > reasonable for a week abroad vs. the standard rate.
    > >
    > > > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
    > > > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.

    > >
    > > About the same as T-Mo, then (T-Mo is at $16/MB, IIRC, now.)
    > >
    > > > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
    > > > bill without trying too hard.

    > >
    > > Certainly.
    > >
    > > > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
    > > > the phone on?

    > >
    > > The folks that have unlocked them seem to have no trouble
    > > provisioning them for T-Mo, so I assume the data settings are
    > > available, but I have no first hand knowledge- I don't currently, nor
    > > do I have any plans to, own one.
    > >
    > > > If not, that would be a design problem.

    > >
    > > Agreed, but not an insurmountable one- as a last resort you could
    > > simply delete your IMAP accounts and there'd be nothing to sync to.
    > >
    > > I'm almost as bad- when I travel outside the US, I rename my APN to
    > > an invalid one just in case I forget to turn off auto-retrieval!
    > >
    > > I certainly don't mean to sound unsympathetic to the people in the
    > > posted article- I was really just pointing out that it's not a
    > > problem specific to "iPhones." With the ever-growing popularity of
    > > smartphones, international travel can be hazardous to your wallet
    > > without precautions! (As you well know better than most of us!) ;-)
    > >

    >
    >
    > What really gets my goat is *why* does International Data have to be
    > this expensive in the first place? This seems very ass backward to me,
    > sort of like the pricing structures of "information services" like
    > Compuserve were 25 years ago.
    >
    > And $M$? Total rip off, thats why I never use it..


    These pricing arrangements will eventually go that way, too, as people
    find better ways to get their data.
    Hotels try and get an internet charge from you when you can go to the
    coffee house down the street.

    --
    To reply by email, remove the word "space"



  9. #24
    Tim Adams
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    In article <[email protected]>, "Tinman" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Tim Adams" wrote:
    > > Alan Baker <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> In article <[email protected]>,
    > >> "John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > "Dennis Ferguson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >> > news:[email protected]...
    > >> > > On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> > >> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T
    > >> > >> charges
    > >> > >> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
    > >> > >> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
    > >> > >>
    > >> > >> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
    > >> > >> via e-mail? XP Service packs?
    > >> > >
    > >> > > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
    > >> > > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
    > >> > > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
    > >> > >
    > >> > > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
    > >> > > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
    > >> > > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
    > >> > > bill without trying too hard.
    > >> > >
    > >> > > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
    > >> > > the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
    > >> > >
    > >> > > Dennis Ferguson
    > >> >
    > >> > Yes, according to the manual it is very easy have the device only check
    > >> > manually. See below:
    > >> >
    > >> > [Set whether iPhone checks for new messages automatically
    > >> >
    > >> > From the Home screen choose Settings > Mail > Auto-Check, then tap
    > >> > Manual,
    > >> > "Every
    > >> >
    > >> > 15 minutes," "Every 30 minutes," or "Every hour."] p 50 of Iphone
    > >> > manual
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > Real easy, but in all fairness to the OP I might have gotten bit on
    > >> > this
    > >> > myself. Oh well.
    > >>
    > >> And it's my understanding that the default setting is to check for mail
    > >> *manually*.
    > >>
    > >> Not to mention that the iPhone doesn't check for mail when it is turned
    > >> off...

    > >
    > > By 'turned off' you mean completely powered down. Just pressing the off
    > > switch
    > > to blank the screen does NOT stop it from checking email IF you have it
    > > set to
    > > check automatically.

    >
    > Uh, "turned off" means turned off. There is no "off switch," it's the--you
    > won't believe this--"sleep" button. When pressed it--again, hard to
    > believe--puts the iPhone to, well, sleep.
    >
    > Sleep is not, in any way, the same as "off." When the iPhone is off it does
    > not--can not--check mail.
    >
    > Can't believe this actually has to be *****ed out. Tune in next week while
    > we debate making phone calls while in "Airplane Mode."


    I only brought it up as I know a person with an iPhone that didn't know the
    'Off' vs the 'Sleep' state till I showed him. He thought the 'Sleep' as also
    considered 'Off'.
    Since Alan doesn't, or at least didn't, own an iPhone, I wanted to claify what
    he had written.

    --
    regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
    you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
    the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm



  10. #25
    IMHO IIRC
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    In news:[email protected],
    Tinman <[email protected]> typed:
    > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:
    >> Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I'm certainly not a fanboy, and have given the iPhone a few solid
    >>> knocks where I felt it deserved it, but please- how is this
    >>> "sucker's" experience different from anyone who takes their world-
    >>> band smartphone overseas and doesn't disable data? The guy next to
    >>> him on the cruise with a Blackberry or Treo is getting hit with the
    >>> same charges.

    >>
    >> No, the guy next to him on the cruise with the BB or Treo can turn his
    >> phone OFF, as in all the way off. The iPhone, no such way exists,
    >> apparently.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Wow. The nonsense spewed in this thread is astounding.


    How do you turn OFF an iPhone, like other cell phones when the battery is
    removed?






  11. #26
    Jonathan Kamens
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    "IMHO IIRC" <[email protected]> writes:
    >> Wow. The nonsense spewed in this thread is astounding.

    >
    >How do you turn OFF an iPhone, like other cell phones when the battery is
    >removed?


    Straw man and nonsequitur. I don't have to remove my battery to run
    off my Windows Mobile device and prevent it from downloading email, and
    an iPhone user doesn't have to be able to remove his battery to prevent
    his iPhone from downloading email.

    The "I remove my battery to be *damn sure* I'm not paying international
    data rates, so the iPhone is bad because iPhone users can't do the same
    thing" argument is an astoundingly lame, stupid, desperate attempt to
    bash the iPhone for something that is simply not the iPhone's fault and
    no different for the iPhone from any other data-enabled device.

    I don't have an iPhone. I probably never will have an iPhone. I
    don't care one way or the other whether people love or hate the
    iPhone. But I just can't stand to see the absurd bull**** that people
    are spewing because, for whatever reason, they feel desperately the
    need to bash everything about the iPhone.

    Come on, people, it's just a phone. Get a life.

    --
    Help stop the genocide in Darfur!
    http://www.genocideintervention.net/



  12. #27
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    At 10 Sep 2007 17:15:13 -0700 Tinman wrote:

    > Can't believe this actually has to be *****ed out. Tune in next week
    > while we debate making phone calls while in "Airplane Mode."



    "Airplane mode?" Now you expect us to believe your iPhone can
    actually FLY? ;-)


    --

    "I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
    or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
    all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
    ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003





  13. #28
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    At 10 Sep 2007 19:15:45 -0400 Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

    > The guy next to him can ALSO take the ****ing BATTERY OUT to MAKE

    SURE
    > he doesn't get socked with a $4800 phone bill for roaming with it
    > overseas.


    He could also ask Issac the bartender to put it in the Pina Colada
    blender for two minutes on "Puree" as well, but turning the phone
    "off" is generally sufficient...



    --

    "I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
    or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
    all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
    ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003





  14. #29
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    At 10 Sep 2007 21:25:44 -0500 IMHO IIRC wrote:

    > How do you turn OFF an iPhone, like other cell phones when the
    > battery is removed?



    Geez- I hate to say it, but I'm starting to think Jobs and the
    Fanboys might have been right after all. Obviously cellphones WERE
    too complicated to use if half the posters in this thread think you
    actually have to remove your phone's battery to turn it off!


    --

    "I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
    or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
    all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
    ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003





  15. #30
    aemeijers
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800


    "Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > At 10 Sep 2007 21:25:44 -0500 IMHO IIRC wrote:
    >
    >> How do you turn OFF an iPhone, like other cell phones when the
    >> battery is removed?

    >
    >
    > Geez- I hate to say it, but I'm starting to think Jobs and the
    > Fanboys might have been right after all. Obviously cellphones WERE
    > too complicated to use if half the posters in this thread think you
    > actually have to remove your phone's battery to turn it off!
    >

    Don't know about iphone, since I have never played with one. But I deal with
    computer devices every day where the software-commanded 'off' isn't really
    OFF, like pull-the-plug-out-of-the-wall OFF. So, yeah, it is plausible. I
    also know many cell phones can be remotely brought on line by the locator
    signal from the tower, even if they are 'turned off', which is more like
    sleep mode. How do you think they handshake with a tower so fast? Mine only
    goes into 'search' mode in dead spots.

    Hell, your 'instant on' television probably is drawing power all the time,
    too. Betcha with all the lights off, and the set off, you can still see a
    faint glow from the screen.

    aem sends...





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