NEWS: Apple limits iPhone purchases

<http://www.techspot.com/news/27647-apple-limits-iphone-purchases.html>

In a bid to stop (or at least slow) people from purchasing and then
unlocking and reselling iPhones, Apple announced this weekend it will
limits sales of the phone to two per person. In addition, the company
also said it would refuse to let people pay in cash for the phones,
insisting on credit or debit card payments so sales can be tracked.

Last week, Apple Chief Operating Officer Tim Cook said a fifth or
more of all iPhone users are buying these units with the intention of
unlocking access to other carriers, totaling about 250,000. While
Apple is reportedly making some healthy profits on each phone sold,
some analysts believe it also receives a whopping $18 per month from
AT&T for each iPhone customer, meaning unlocked iPhones are costing
Apple millions of dollars.

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› See More: NEWS: Apple limits iPhone purchases

It is alleged that John Navas claimed:

> In a bid to stop (or at least slow) people from purchasing and then
> unlocking and reselling iPhones, Apple announced this weekend it will
> limits sales of the phone to two per person. In addition, the company
> also said it would refuse to let people pay in cash for the phones,
> insisting on credit or debit card payments so sales can be tracked.

Last I heard, in the USA cash MUST be accepted as payment as long as
it's legal US currency.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"Arranged marriages, every one, but they worked out. They inspired me.
Knowing that they were waiting at home for me is what keeps me here -
75 lights years away." (Amb. Mollari, B5 "The War Prayer")

danny burstein <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> In <[email protected]> Jeffrey Kaplan
> <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>It is alleged that John Navas claimed:
>
>>> In a bid to stop (or at least slow) people from purchasing and
>>> then unlocking and reselling iPhones, Apple announced this
>>> weekend it will limits sales of the phone to two per person. In
>>> addition, the company also said it would refuse to let people pay
>>> in cash for the phones, insisting on credit or debit card
>>> payments so sales can be tracked.
>
>>Last I heard, in the USA cash MUST be accepted as payment as long as
>>it's legal US currency.
>
> You might want to clear out your ears, then.
>
>

Fine- name one other face-to-face transaction that is never completed with
a cash payment.

In article <[email protected]>,
"Rashputin" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Jeffrey Kaplan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > It is alleged that John Navas claimed:
> >
> >> In a bid to stop (or at least slow) people from purchasing and then
> >> unlocking and reselling iPhones, Apple announced this weekend it will
> >> limits sales of the phone to two per person. In addition, the company
> >> also said it would refuse to let people pay in cash for the phones,
> >> insisting on credit or debit card payments so sales can be tracked.
> >
> > Last I heard, in the USA cash MUST be accepted as payment as long as
> > it's legal US currency.
> >
> > --
> > Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
> > The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol
> >
> > "Arranged marriages, every one, but they worked out. They inspired me.
> > Knowing that they were waiting at home for me is what keeps me here -
> > 75 lights years away." (Amb. Mollari, B5 "The War Prayer")
>
> That's true. This could get interesting since Apple has to rely on
> AT&T to implement it. You could end up with AT&T deciding that the high fee
> per month and the BS from Apple trying to ensure that the customer is never
> right if the customer doesn't worship at the Throne of Jobs could amount to
> breach of contract with Apple either making concessions on the monthly fees
> or looking for another carrier. I bet this is just the start of another
> class action suit at the very least and probably some kind of AT&T reaction
> that Apple won't like. I can see AT&T no longer carrying them and letting
> Apple handle all sales via the web, but I don't see AT&T turning down legal
> tender just because the folks at Apple think they live in their own world
> and can ignore the law.
>
> Regards

I went with a friend of mine (who owns a luxury hotel in Sedona) to the
ATT store in Flagstaff to buy an iPhone.
ATT required him, as a new ATT customer to plunk down a $500 deposit (in
addition to cost of phone) when signing up for service (was Verizon).

Don't think too many people are going to be doing this by cash.

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

CozmicDebris wrote:
> Fine- name one other face-to-face transaction that is never completed with
> a cash payment.

Some banks has a policy not to cash a check made out to you for cash if
you don't have an account with them or another bank.

On 2007-10-30, CozmicDebris <isheforreal> wrote:
> danny burstein <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>> In <[email protected]> Jeffrey Kaplan
>> <[email protected]> writes:
>>>Last I heard, in the USA cash MUST be accepted as payment as long as
>>>it's legal US currency.
>>
>> You might want to clear out your ears, then.
>
> Fine- name one other face-to-face transaction that is never completed with
> a cash payment.

Car rental? They'll let you settle the bill in cash when you return
the car, but they demand a credit card up front to secure the rental.

Dennis Ferguson

DTC <no_spam@move_along_folks.foob> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> CozmicDebris wrote:
>> Fine- name one other face-to-face transaction that is never completed
>> with a cash payment.
>
> Some banks has a policy not to cash a check made out to you for cash
> if you don't have an account with them or another bank.
>

And therefore the transaction is not completed at all.

I'll try again- name a face-to-face transaction that can not be completed
with a cash payment.

It is alleged that DTC claimed:

> CozmicDebris wrote:
> > Fine- name one other face-to-face transaction that is never completed with
> > a cash payment.
>
> Some banks has a policy not to cash a check made out to you for cash if
> you don't have an account with them or another bank.

That is hardly the same thing as refusing to TAKE cash as payment for
goods or services. Next?

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"First, we would not accept a treaty that would not have been ratified,
nor a treating that I thought made sense for the Country." - George W.
Bush, on the Kyoto Accord, Washington Post, April 24, 2001

At 30 Oct 2007 19:14:54 -0500 CozmicDebris wrote:

> And therefore the transaction is not completed at all.
>
> I'll try again- name a face-to-face transaction that can not be
completed
> with a cash payment.


Just because no one has been stupid enough to refuse cash before doesn't
mean Apple can't be first. AFAIK, there is no law preventing Apple or
anyone else from refusing cash. While good ol' greenbacks are "legal
tender for all debts public and private," a retail sales transaction is
not a debt.

Merchants tend to like cash for obvious reasons, but I not aware that
they are required to accept it. If Apple wanted only to barter iPhones
for livestock, that'd be their choice.

At 30 Oct 2007 16:22:33 -0700 Kurt wrote:

> I went with a friend of mine (who owns a luxury hotel in Sedona) to the
> ATT store in Flagstaff to buy an iPhone.
> ATT required him, as a new ATT customer to plunk down a $500 deposit
(in
> addition to cost of phone) when signing up for service (was Verizon).
>
> Don't think too many people are going to be doing this by cash.


Deposits are generally levied on those who fail to pass a credit check,
perhaps because of poor credit history, no credit history, or refusing to
divulge personal information (i.e. their SSN.) Sometimes it's simply
because they left another wireless company without paying a final bill or
early term fee. In the case of the first two reasons, those customers
generally don't have credit cards.

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:55:49 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Last I heard, in the USA cash MUST be accepted as payment as long as
>it's legal US currency.

Nope. See <http://tinyurl.com/35wn8q>:

Q: I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all
debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will
only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and
others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or
smaller. Isn't this illegal?

A: The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the
Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled
"Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency
(including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal
reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts,
public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above
are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a
creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a
private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or
coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are
free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash
unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus
line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In
addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may
refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20)
as a matter of policy.

Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
> It is alleged that John Navas claimed:
>
>> In a bid to stop (or at least slow) people from purchasing and then
>> unlocking and reselling iPhones, Apple announced this weekend it will
>> limits sales of the phone to two per person. In addition, the company
>> also said it would refuse to let people pay in cash for the phones,
>> insisting on credit or debit card payments so sales can be tracked.
>
> Last I heard, in the USA cash MUST be accepted as payment as long as
> it's legal US currency.
>


Yeah... no. That's absolutely 100% false.

Here's a link to the U.S. Treasury page explaining that.
http://www.treas.gov/education/faq/c...l-tender.shtml

I got this from the slashdot story of the same subject.

It is alleged that Anthony Guzzi claimed:

> > Last I heard, in the USA cash MUST be accepted as payment as long as
> > it's legal US currency.
> Yeah... no. That's absolutely 100% false.
>
> Here's a link to the U.S. Treasury page explaining that.
> http://www.treas.gov/education/faq/c...l-tender.shtml

Thanks for the cite, rather than just a refutation like someone else
did.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

Tips for the Innocent Bystander: 49. No matter how hooked you are on
phonics, don't try to pronounce things you find inscribed in ancient
artifacts.

Todd Allcock wrote:

> Merchants tend to like cash for obvious reasons, but I not aware that
> they are required to accept it. If Apple wanted only to barter iPhones
> for livestock, that'd be their choice.

Only creditors must accept cash (at least on a federal level, states may
have their own laws requiring merchants to accept cash).

If the product or service is first received and then the seller presents
a bill, i.e. in a restaurant, then it becomes a debt, the merchant is a
creditor, and cash must be accepted.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=6246139
The story implies that at least there's no federal law that requires
that a merchant take cash for goods and services that are not received
until they are paid for, such as an iPhone. Maybe the cafe featured in
the NPR report is a place where you pay before receiving your food.

Apple Gift Cards are another story entirely, at least ones purchased up
until now, that don't have that exclusion on them at time of purchase.

The selling of unlocked iPhones is a big headache for Apple and AT&T.
The new rev of firmware has already been hacked. Unlocked iPhones are
selling for less than a $100 premium over locked ones, and unlocking
services are only charging $40 in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Dennis Ferguson wrote:
> On 2007-10-30, CozmicDebris <isheforreal> wrote:
>> danny burstein <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>> In <[email protected]> Jeffrey Kaplan
>>> <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> Last I heard, in the USA cash MUST be accepted as payment as long as
>>>> it's legal US currency.
>>> You might want to clear out your ears, then.
>> Fine- name one other face-to-face transaction that is never completed with
>> a cash payment.
>
> Car rental? They'll let you settle the bill in cash when you return
> the car, but they demand a credit card up front to secure the rental.
>
> Dennis Ferguson

This is true, but they _do_ accept cash as payment of the debt, they
just won't let you take out the car without a credit card (or sometimes
a huge cash deposit). They also usually don't accept debit cards except
as a final payment.