Re: SPRINT = a "meltdown," a "miserable performance" and a "disaster" - shares plunged 25.2 percent

01-18-2008, 06:00 PM

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:46:08 -0800 (PST), jgrove24@hotmail.com wrote in
<6da5f0e5-6cf7-498b-aefc-a73189a886f7@d70g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>:

>On Jan 18, 6:38 pm, 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Verizon's shares fell $1.91, or 4.7 percent, to $39. AT&T's shares
>> fell $1.29, or 3.5 percent, to $36.01.

>HA HA HA, shoulda went with GSM...those Lucifer radio cards should be
>good for some gold and silver scrap value....JG

Yep. CDMA has been in serious decline, and this will tend to accelerate
the process, leaving Verizon increasingly isolated on a shrinking CDMA
island, probably why Verizon shares dropped much more than AT&T shares.
The bet by AT&T on GSM and 3G looks has been paying off well, and
beating out Verizon for the iPhone has made it the strongest player in
the U.S. market.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ>

01-18-2008, 06:14 PM

On 2008-01-19, John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:46:08 -0800 (PST), jgrove24@hotmail.com wrote in
><6da5f0e5-6cf7-498b-aefc-a73189a886f7@d70g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>:
>
>>On Jan 18, 6:38 pm, 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Verizon's shares fell $1.91, or 4.7 percent, to $39. AT&T's shares
>>> fell $1.29, or 3.5 percent, to $36.01.
>
>>HA HA HA, shoulda went with GSM...those Lucifer radio cards should be
>>good for some gold and silver scrap value....JG
>
> Yep. CDMA has been in serious decline, and this will tend to accelerate
> the process, leaving Verizon increasingly isolated on a shrinking CDMA
> island, probably why Verizon shares dropped much more than AT&T shares.

?? Over the past 52 weeks Verizon shares are up 5%, AT&T up 3% and Sprint
down 50%. The S&P is down 7%.

Sprint and Verizon don't look like the ones which are closely correlated
to me.

Dennis Ferguson

01-18-2008, 06:48 PM

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 01:14:10 GMT, Dennis Ferguson
<dcferguson@pacbell.net> wrote in
<slrnfp2jn1.4m.dcferguson@akit-ferguson.com>:

>On 2008-01-19, John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:46:08 -0800 (PST), jgrove24@hotmail.com wrote in
>><6da5f0e5-6cf7-498b-aefc-a73189a886f7@d70g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>>On Jan 18, 6:38 pm, 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Verizon's shares fell $1.91, or 4.7 percent, to $39. AT&T's shares
>>>> fell $1.29, or 3.5 percent, to $36.01.
>>
>>>HA HA HA, shoulda went with GSM...those Lucifer radio cards should be
>>>good for some gold and silver scrap value....JG
>>
>> Yep. CDMA has been in serious decline, and this will tend to accelerate
>> the process, leaving Verizon increasingly isolated on a shrinking CDMA
>> island, probably why Verizon shares dropped much more than AT&T shares.
>
>?? Over the past 52 weeks Verizon shares are up 5%, AT&T up 3% and Sprint
>down 50%. The S&P is down 7%.
>
>Sprint and Verizon don't look like the ones which are closely correlated
>to me.

I'm talking only about the drops today on the Sprint news. Analysts
believe the fall in AT&T and Verizon reflect a likely tough year in 2008
for cellular carriers. The greater fall in Verizon presumably means a
tougher outlook than for AT&T.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ>

01-18-2008, 07:53 PM

John, up to your old tricks again I see......

Let me give you a hint...... then do your homework.

N E X T E L

is where most of the problems are - (which isn't "CDMA")......

"John Navas" <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news

ii2p3p5e7eg675nop6o6r5rnk66auvfrr@4ax.com...
>
> Yep. CDMA has been in serious decline, and this will tend to accelerate
> the process, leaving Verizon increasingly isolated on a shrinking CDMA
> island, probably why Verizon shares dropped much more than AT&T shares.
> The bet by AT&T on GSM and 3G looks has been paying off well, and
> beating out Verizon for the iPhone has made it the strongest player in
> the U.S. market.
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS:
> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ>

01-18-2008, 08:05 PM

Dennis Ferguson wrote:
> On 2008-01-19, John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:46:08 -0800 (PST), jgrove24@hotmail.com wrote in
>> <6da5f0e5-6cf7-498b-aefc-a73189a886f7@d70g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>> On Jan 18, 6:38 pm, 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Verizon's shares fell $1.91, or 4.7 percent, to $39. AT&T's shares
>>>> fell $1.29, or 3.5 percent, to $36.01.
>>> HA HA HA, shoulda went with GSM...those Lucifer radio cards should be
>>> good for some gold and silver scrap value....JG
>> Yep. CDMA has been in serious decline, and this will tend to accelerate
>> the process, leaving Verizon increasingly isolated on a shrinking CDMA
>> island, probably why Verizon shares dropped much more than AT&T shares.
>
> ?? Over the past 52 weeks Verizon shares are up 5%, AT&T up 3% and Sprint
> down 50%. The S&P is down 7%.
>
> Sprint and Verizon don't look like the ones which are closely correlated
> to me.

Even with the Sprint subscriber losses, CDMA remains the dominant system
in North America, with well over 50% of subscribers. 2007 saw big
increases in CDMA penetration in the U.S.. CDMA is also gaining ground
in Asia, because carriers like the fact that you can have the same
coverage with 40% fewer cell sites, and the fact that CDMA has much
higher capacity per Mhz than GSM.

In Australia, a judge granted an emergency order delaying the CDMA shut
down because "Next G" could not provide the rural coverage of CDMA. Hey,
maybe someone can do that for AMPS in the U.S.!

Of course remember than for data, it's all CDMA, whether it's W-CDMA or
CDMA-2000. The future is indeed bright for CDMA!

01-18-2008, 08:26 PM

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:05:25 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote in <47916887$0$84203$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>:

>Of course remember than for data, it's all CDMA, whether it's W-CDMA or
>CDMA-2000. The future is indeed bright for CDMA!

Nope. CMDA-2000 and W-CDMA are totally different.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ>

01-18-2008, 08:27 PM

In article <47916887$0$84203$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Of course remember than for data, it's all CDMA, whether it's W-CDMA or
> CDMA-2000. The future is indeed bright for CDMA!

I gather you have not heard of LTE the 4G upgrade.

--
Charles

01-18-2008, 10:28 PM

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.cellular.verizon.]
On 2008-01-19, John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:

> Yep. CDMA has been in serious decline

Were you ever a Sprint customer? I was, 2000-2005 for my wife's phone
and 2004-2005 for both phones. The biggest problem at Sprint wasn't the
network.

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com
Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol

01-18-2008, 11:53 PM

On 2008-01-19, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> Even with the Sprint subscriber losses, CDMA remains the dominant system
> in North America, with well over 50% of subscribers.

Unless my math is really screwed up that statistic is just wrong. Where
did it come from?

Dennis Ferguson

01-19-2008, 12:18 AM

At 19 Jan 2008 01:00:33 +0000 John Navas wrote:

> Yep. CDMA has been in serious decline, and this will tend to accelerate
> the process, leaving Verizon increasingly isolated on a shrinking CDMA
> island, probably why Verizon shares dropped much more than AT&T shares.

But Sprint's problems have nothing to do with being CDMA. If CDMA is
"declining," it's because Sprint is hemmoraging customers- not the other
way around. If Sprint was GSM, GSM would've lost 650,000 customers instead.

> The bet by AT&T on GSM and 3G looks has been paying off well, and
> beating out Verizon for the iPhone has made it the strongest player in
> the U.S. market.

Which has nothing to do with GSM (or CDMA), either. Other than a few savvy
customers that travel internationally, I doubt 9 out of 10 cellular
customers know or care what technology their carrier uses.

01-19-2008, 07:45 AM

John Navas wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:46:08 -0800 (PST), jgrove24@hotmail.com wrote in
> <6da5f0e5-6cf7-498b-aefc-a73189a886f7@d70g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>:
>
>> On Jan 18, 6:38 pm, 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Verizon's shares fell $1.91, or 4.7 percent, to $39. AT&T's shares
>>> fell $1.29, or 3.5 percent, to $36.01.
>
>> HA HA HA, shoulda went with GSM...those Lucifer radio cards should be
>> good for some gold and silver scrap value....JG
>
> Yep. CDMA has been in serious decline, and this will tend to accelerate
> the process, leaving Verizon increasingly isolated on a shrinking CDMA
> island, probably why Verizon shares dropped much more than AT&T shares.
> The bet by AT&T on GSM and 3G looks has been paying off well, and
> beating out Verizon for the iPhone has made it the strongest player in
> the U.S. market.
>
From everything I read the screwup was to buy the toy Nextel
properties. Initially that boosted their subscriber numbers but then
when they started raising the prices and not building out the network
the former nextel customers started fleeing. The walkie talkie thing was
attractive for a while because it gave cheap calling for businesses. Now
that the other carriers have free calling within their networks it has
made the walkie talkie thing much less attractive.

01-19-2008, 08:30 AM

Dennis Ferguson wrote:
> On 2008-01-19, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Even with the Sprint subscriber losses, CDMA remains the dominant system
>> in North America, with well over 50% of subscribers.
>
> Unless my math is really screwed up that statistic is just wrong. Where
> did it come from?
>
> Dennis Ferguson

It was in an article last year. They added up the subscribers from the
major carriers for each technology, Verizon, Sprint, Alltel, AT&T,
T-Mobile, then divided by the total number of customers.

01-19-2008, 08:32 AM

George wrote:

> From everything I read the screwup was to buy the toy Nextel
> properties. Initially that boosted their subscriber numbers but then
> when they started raising the prices and not building out the network
> the former nextel customers started fleeing. The walkie talkie thing was
> attractive for a while because it gave cheap calling for businesses. Now
> that the other carriers have free calling within their networks it has
> made the walkie talkie thing much less attractive.

Some businesses really like the broadcast capability of Nextel. However
the other PTT systems also have it now, and the fact that Nextel is a
couple of second faster is of no consequence in broadcast mode.

01-19-2008, 09:27 AM

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 06:53:04 GMT, Dennis Ferguson
<dcferguson@pacbell.net> wrote in
<slrnfp37ig.4a.dcferguson@akit-ferguson.com>:

>On 2008-01-19, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Even with the Sprint subscriber losses, CDMA remains the dominant system
>> in North America, with well over 50% of subscribers.
>
>Unless my math is really screwed up that statistic is just wrong. Where
>did it come from?

He's wrong, of course, but still desperately clinging to his forecast
that Verizon and Sprint will take over the U.S. market.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ>

01-19-2008, 09:31 AM

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:18:22 -0700, Todd Allcock
<elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
<sQhkj.238$Wr4.18@fe101.usenetserver.com>:

>At 19 Jan 2008 01:00:33 +0000 John Navas wrote:
>
>> Yep. CDMA has been in serious decline, and this will tend to accelerate
>> the process, leaving Verizon increasingly isolated on a shrinking CDMA
>> island, probably why Verizon shares dropped much more than AT&T shares.
>
>But Sprint's problems have nothing to do with being CDMA. If CDMA is
>"declining," it's because Sprint is hemmoraging customers- not the other
>way around. If Sprint was GSM, GSM would've lost 650,000 customers instead.

Not necessarily. Rationalizing networks would have been quite a bit
easier with GSM.

>> The bet by AT&T on GSM and 3G looks has been paying off well, and
>> beating out Verizon for the iPhone has made it the strongest player in
>> the U.S. market.
>
>Which has nothing to do with GSM (or CDMA), either. Other than a few savvy
>customers that travel internationally, I doubt 9 out of 10 cellular
>customers know or care what technology their carrier uses.

It's not whether they care, it's the massive advantage from worldwide
use and economies of scale.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ>

Re: SPRINT = a "meltdown," a "miserable performance" and a "disaster" - shares plunged 25.2 percent