iPhones now get free AT&T WiFi

At 04 May 2008 08:49:38 -0400 Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> If it came down to someone making threats to the president, do you want
> to guess what would happen?
>

Sure- the feds would investigate, see Larry was blameless, and go on their
way...

---

› See More: iPhones now get free AT&T WiFi

On 5/4/08 6:28 PM, in article [email protected],
"Scott in SoCal" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sun, 04 May 2008 15:07:45 -0600, Todd Allcock
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> At 04 May 2008 08:49:38 -0400 Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>
>>> If it came down to someone making threats to the president, do you want
>>> to guess what would happen?
>>
>> Sure- the feds would investigate, see Larry was blameless, and go on their
>> way...
>
> You mean like the Secret Service did to Steve Jackson Games?
>
> As I recall, the SS took a bunch of their computers, hard drives,
> business records, and the work-in-progress GURPS Cyberpunk game,
> causing a catastrophic disruption to the company's business. The SS
> took its own sweet time about giving the stuff back, too - it took
> months of effort and involved over $250,000 in legal fees, but the SS
> eventually did let SJG go on their merry way.
>
> So clearly Larry has nothing whatsoever to worry about.

I get the impression from his posts that "Larry" is really Alfred E. Newman.

On Sun, 04 May 2008 13:20:09 -0600, Todd Allcock
<[email protected]> wrote:

>At 04 May 2008 10:29:57 +0000 Ron wrote:
>
>> WiFi is usually free, and is widely available, as those of us who use
>> it know.
>

>available.
>
>> EDGE/GPRS is not free, and it remains to be seen what AT&T will
>> charge for data plans for 3G iPhones, it typically charges $40/month
>> for 3G Smart Phone data planes, and the Edge iPhone has already
>> demonstrated the burden it puts on data infrastructure.
>
>Historically AT&T doesn't price plans based on speed. Data for PDAs and
>smartphones is what it is regardless of whether the phone is 2G or 3G.


Don't know where you make that up from.

3G PDAs are required to get the $40 plan, EDGE ones not.

"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>Historically AT&T doesn't price plans based on speed. Data for PDAs and
>>smartphones is what it is regardless of whether the phone is 2G or 3G.
>
>
> Don't know where you make that up from.

Where I get all of my "made-up" AT&T info- from AT&T...

> 3G PDAs are required to get the $40 plan, EDGE ones not.

The list of "compatible phones" for the $30 PDA plan, (they dropped it to
$30 from $40 a while ago, now...) directly from AT&T's website, is:

"AT&T: Tilt
Cingular: 8125 , 8525
HP:hw6515
Motorola: Moto Q Global
Nokia: E62
Palm: Centro, Treo 650, Treo 680, Treo 750
Pantech: Duo
Samsung: Blackjack, Blackjack II"

Off the top of my head, I know the Cingular 8125, HP 6515, Treos 650 and
680, and Palm Centro are not 3G phones, although AFAIK, the Centro is the
only currently-sold non-3G PDA- the others are long discontinued.

The only "PDA" (AT&T's website definition, certainly not mine!) with a
sub-$30 data plan is the iPhone, which has it's own "iPhone" data plan. All
other PDAs, REGARDLESS OF DATA SPEED, are $30 for the data add-on, (or $60
if you want tethering included.)

But please- don't take my word for it- go to the AT&T wireless website,
stick a Centro in the shopping cart, go to "add services" and try to find us
a cheaper "2G PDA data plan," ok?

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> >Sure- the feds would investigate, see Larry was blameless, and go on
>> >their
>> >way...
>>
>> You mean like the Secret Service did to Steve Jackson Games?
>>
>> As I recall, the SS took a bunch of their computers, hard drives,
>> business records, and the work-in-progress GURPS Cyberpunk game,
>> causing a catastrophic disruption to the company's business. The SS
>> took its own sweet time about giving the stuff back, too - it took
>> months of effort and involved over $250,000 in legal fees, but the SS
>> eventually did let SJG go on their merry way.
>
> Didn't the EFF have to get involved?

IIRC, yes, they were created in part due to this debacle.

>> So clearly Larry has nothing whatsoever to worry about.
>
> hehehehehehe Clearly.

To be fair, that was fifteen years ago, when the Feds were still trying to
figure out what "cybercrime" was all about, and were going after specific
"cyberpunk" targets, regardless of whether or not they actually had broken
any laws. I'll certainly agree that they make mistakes, and the SJG fiasco
might well be the "Ruby Ridge" of cybercrime "investigations," but early
blunders like that one are EXACTLY why Larry would really have nothing to
worry about today. The Feds know how "all the internets" work these days,
and would easily figure out that your hypothetical email threat didn't
originate from Larry. Would they confiscate his equipment for awhile and
inconvenience him? Probably, particularly if the "in person" Larry is as
stubborn and irascible as his Usenet persona is, they might just do it to
torque him off! Alternately, I suspect he could charm his way out of it
with his patriotic side, and I suspect he would probably feel compelled to
aid them in any way possible.

Now, having said that, they might have a few questions about the 500
terabytes of downloaded Usenet movies and music Larry has purported to have
"acquired"'over the last couple of years, but that's another matter... ;-)

Todd Allcock wrote:
>
> The only "PDA" (AT&T's website definition, certainly not mine!) with a
> sub-$30 data plan is the iPhone, which has it's own "iPhone" data plan.
> All other PDAs, REGARDLESS OF DATA SPEED, are $30 for the data add-on,
> (or $60 if you want tethering included.)
>
> But please- don't take my word for it- go to the AT&T wireless website,
> stick a Centro in the shopping cart, go to "add services" and try to
> find us a cheaper "2G PDA data plan," ok?
>

My hw6515 operates on a $19.99/month unlimited data plan.

"News" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>>
>> The only "PDA" (AT&T's website definition, certainly not mine!) with a
>> sub-$30 data plan is the iPhone, which has it's own "iPhone" data plan.
>> All other PDAs, REGARDLESS OF DATA SPEED, are $30 for the data add-on,
>> (or $60 if you want tethering included.)
>>
>> But please- don't take my word for it- go to the AT&T wireless website,
>> stick a Centro in the shopping cart, go to "add services" and try to find
>> us a cheaper "2G PDA data plan," ok?
>>
>
> My hw6515 operates on a $19.99/month unlimited data plan.

I assume you are using MEdia Net rather than a PDA plan, though, correct?
That's a plan for "dumbphones" that isn't really hard to "trick" AT&T into
letting you have. I do the same on T-Mobile, with a $5.99 "WAP" plan
instead of their $20 PDA plan. Like AT&T, T-Mo seems ok with it as long as
you don't call attention to yourself by using "too much" of your unlimited
data.

Arguably, you could use that same $20 plan on a brand-new 3G PDA as well, as
long as you "stay under the radar." HowardForums are full of posters who've
done just that. Usually it involves sticking your SIM in a non-PDA phone,
and then signing up for the unlimited MEdia Net plan, then putting the SIM
in your PDA and conveniently forgetting to tell AT&T you've changed phones.
In your case, you'd probably get away with it even more easily since you
already have the data plan, and could simply buy a 3G model and slip your
SIM in. That's how I did it with T-Mo- I've had the same data plan add-on
for four or five years over three or four phones. When I switched from my
last "dumbphone" to my T-Mobile MDA, I simply moved the SIM to the MDA, and
never changed plans.

I was going to mention some of this in my reply to Ron, but I felt that
"tricking" AT&T into lower priced plans was beyond the scope of the
argument, because it isn't really 2G or 3G related- 3G PDA owners can play
the same tricks as 2G PDA owners do into gaming the system, so, IMO, it's a
moot point.

Todd Allcock wrote:
>
> "News" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>>
>>> The only "PDA" (AT&T's website definition, certainly not mine!) with
>>> a sub-$30 data plan is the iPhone, which has it's own "iPhone" data
>>> plan. All other PDAs, REGARDLESS OF DATA SPEED, are $30 for the data
>>> add-on, (or $60 if you want tethering included.)
>>>
>>> But please- don't take my word for it- go to the AT&T wireless
>>> website, stick a Centro in the shopping cart, go to "add services"
>>> and try to find us a cheaper "2G PDA data plan," ok?
>>>
>>
>> My hw6515 operates on a $19.99/month unlimited data plan.
>
>
> I assume you are using MEdia Net rather than a PDA plan, though,
> correct? That's a plan for "dumbphones" that isn't really hard to
> "trick" AT&T into letting you have. I do the same on T-Mobile, with a
> $5.99 "WAP" plan instead of their $20 PDA plan. Like AT&T, T-Mo seems
> ok with it as long as you don't call attention to yourself by using "too
> much" of your unlimited data.
>
> Arguably, you could use that same $20 plan on a brand-new 3G PDA as
> well, as long as you "stay under the radar." HowardForums are full of
> posters who've done just that. Usually it involves sticking your SIM in
> a non-PDA phone, and then signing up for the unlimited MEdia Net plan,
> then putting the SIM in your PDA and conveniently forgetting to tell
> AT&T you've changed phones. In your case, you'd probably get away with
> it even more easily since you already have the data plan, and could
> simply buy a 3G model and slip your SIM in. That's how I did it with
> T-Mo- I've had the same data plan add-on for four or five years over
> three or four phones. When I switched from my last "dumbphone" to my
> T-Mobile MDA, I simply moved the SIM to the MDA, and never changed plans.
>
> I was going to mention some of this in my reply to Ron, but I felt that
> "tricking" AT&T into lower priced plans was beyond the scope of the
> argument, because it isn't really 2G or 3G related- 3G PDA owners can
> play the same tricks as 2G PDA owners do into gaming the system, so,
> IMO, it's a moot point.
>


Absolutely no trickery or misrepresentation involved or required.

The $19.99/month "Smart Phone Connect" is an AT&T retail offered PDA
email/data/network access plan.

On Mon, 5 May 2008 10:51:09 -0600, "Todd Allcock"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>>Historically AT&T doesn't price plans based on speed. Data for PDAs and
>>>smartphones is what it is regardless of whether the phone is 2G or 3G.
>>
>>
>> Don't know where you make that up from.
>
>Where I get all of my "made-up" AT&T info- from AT&T...
>
>> 3G PDAs are required to get the $40 plan, EDGE ones not.
>


I was wrong, the data plan is $45 for a Blackberry

"News" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>> I was going to mention some of this in my reply to Ron, but I felt that
>> "tricking" AT&T into lower priced plans was beyond the scope of the
>> argument, because it isn't really 2G or 3G related- 3G PDA owners can
>> play the same tricks as 2G PDA owners do into gaming the system, so, IMO,
>> it's a moot point.
>>
>
>
> Absolutely no trickery or misrepresentation involved or required.
>
> The $19.99/month "Smart Phone Connect" is an AT&T retail offered PDA
> email/data/network access plan.

Actually it was an AT&T retail offered SMARTPHONE email/data plan. Back in
the day, Cingular made separate distinctions between "Smartphones" and
"PDAs." (Strangely enough, having a QWERTY keyboard was Cingular's
definition of a "PDA." A silly distinction, but that's what they used.)
Frankly I'm surprised they let you get it on the 6915- when I asked two
years ago if I could put an 8125 on Smartphone Connect and they told me I
couldn't. The Cingular forums are full of threads pointing out the even
Cingular didn't always get it right (Samsung Blackjack users in particular
seemed to be offered Smartphone Connect and PDA Connect randomly.)

I may be wrong, but I don't think they offer Smartphone connect any longer
(I think it was pulled when the old $40 PDA Connect became "PDA Personal"
for $30.)
I believe the current data plan lineup is here:
http://www.wireless.att.com/business...comp-table.jsp

So your Smartphone Connect plan is likely grandfathered, and would be
something I'd think twice about before ever cancelling, since it's
replacement seems to be $10/month more.

Todd Allcock wrote:
>
> "News" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>> I was going to mention some of this in my reply to Ron, but I felt
>>> that "tricking" AT&T into lower priced plans was beyond the scope of
>>> the argument, because it isn't really 2G or 3G related- 3G PDA owners
>>> can play the same tricks as 2G PDA owners do into gaming the system,
>>> so, IMO, it's a moot point.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Absolutely no trickery or misrepresentation involved or required.
>>
>> The $19.99/month "Smart Phone Connect" is an AT&T retail offered PDA
>> email/data/network access plan.
>
>
> Actually it was an AT&T retail offered SMARTPHONE email/data plan. Back
> in the day, Cingular made separate distinctions between "Smartphones"
> and "PDAs." (Strangely enough, having a QWERTY keyboard was Cingular's
> definition of a "PDA." A silly distinction, but that's what they used.)
> Frankly I'm surprised they let you get it on the 6915- when I asked two
> years ago if I could put an 8125 on Smartphone Connect and they told me
> I couldn't. The Cingular forums are full of threads pointing out the
> even Cingular didn't always get it right (Samsung Blackjack users in
> particular seemed to be offered Smartphone Connect and PDA Connect
> randomly.)
>
> I may be wrong, but I don't think they offer Smartphone connect any
> longer (I think it was pulled when the old $40 PDA Connect became "PDA
> Personal" for $30.)
> I believe the current data plan lineup is here:
> http://www.wireless.att.com/business...comp-table.jsp
>
> So your Smartphone Connect plan is likely grandfathered, and would be
> something I'd think twice about before ever cancelling, since it's
> replacement seems to be $10/month more.
>


I'm not complaining.... ;-)

"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


> I was wrong, the data plan is $45 for a Blackberry

Kinda sorta. $45 includes "corporate email" (Blackberry Enterprise Server,)
which business users would obviously have. "Personal" users who just want
their POP/IMAP email can opt for "Blackberry Personal" which is $30, same as
other PDA phones.

AT&T seems to have tried to greatly simplify their data plans- Today,
essentially, there are two tiers of unlimited "on-phone" data price points-
$30 for Smartphones/PDAs, and $20 for feature/multimedia phones (including
the iPhone.)

It'll be interesting to see how they position the 3G iPhone- keep iPhone
data plans consistent (i.e. $20/month) or redefine the 3G iPhone as a "PDA"
and charge $30. A two-tiered iPhone data pricing approach could certainly
help clear inventory of older EDGE iPhones without drastic price cuts- 2G
iPhones could be sold until stock is depleted alongside 3G models using the
$10/cheaper data rate as an advantage ("you'll save $240 over the two year
contract!"), particularly for users who intend to primarily use WiFi for
data, and only need the cellular data for email, casual browsing, and Visual
Voicemail.

"News" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...

>> So your Smartphone Connect plan is likely grandfathered, and would be
>> something I'd think twice about before ever cancelling, since it's
>> replacement seems to be $10/month more.
>>
>
>
> I'm not complaining.... ;-)

Nor would I! ;-) Just something to keep in mind should you ever decide to
upgrade phones (although the 6915 is such a great phone, I can't really
think of a good reason you'd need to upgrade unless you were wanting 3G for
the sake of 3G... I wanted one back in the day for the internal GPS, but
couldn't get past the square screen- too many old PPC programs expected a
240x320 display and the bottom 1/3 of the screen (often the part with the
"ok," "cancel," and other controls!) would be inaccessible. Obviously it's
less of a problem today, given that HP and Palm's WM Treos have used the
240x240 for awhile now, but I still prefer the rectangle!)