The TILT versus anything thing else

Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Scott Seidman said:

> Did the Palm thing, hated it. Wouldn't do it again. Plus, its officially
> dead, frozen forever at where it is now. WM has its problems, but it does

Palm is not officially dead. However, it has been mostly dead all day.
Or is it spending a year dead for tax purposes?

> way more than the iPhone, who's SDK doesn't seem to have been picked up in
> a major way. I've been using PPC's for years, and the interface with
> outlook is trouble free compared to Palm.

Not if you use the Pocket Mirror conduits...

> Give it a year. The new iPhone looks like it will be expensive, and isn't
> really that major a step. It is a nice interface, but WM is starting to

There are two things missing (for my use) with the +current+ iPhone:
Third party software and 32G of storage. I can deal with 16, but the
software is the important thing, and why I've been waiting.

> passes. For me, it already wins-- but I don't tend to play music. If I
> did, maybe the iPhone would be nudged up a place or two.

I currently do not use my Treo as a media player, mainly because as a
media player it sucks. I have tried before. (I now use the 16GB SDHC
card I bought for that in my camera instead.) I already use an iPod
for my music. So just like getting a smartphone in the first place to
merge my phone and my PDA, an iPhone is a logical next step to merge my
portable media needs into my smartphone.

As long as I can run software that does what I need, I'm generally
platform-agnostic.

> > It's not. Not until "they" decide to fully integrate a "real" PC into
> > a palm-sized portable phone.
>
> I don't see that happening soon. Heat dispersion and battery life are the
> limiting steps, not some corporate fat cat thinking we're not ready for it.
> I think there needs to be another creative link for interfacing a whole
> computer through a 2.5" screen, also. For what I do with computers, I don't
> see myself working on less than a 10" screen, ever-- which means I'd still
> need to carry a phone around.

It would take a folding display, for one thing. And I mean one where
the display can fold on itself like a sheet of paper or thin and
flexible plastic.

> > As you said, it depends on the individual user's needs. With
> > unlimited cellular data and either HSPA(?) for GSM or EVDO for CDMA,
> > is public WiFi really significantly faster? Speaking personally, the
> > only public WiFi I've ever used was rated at a max of 1Mbs but in
> > practical use was slower.
>
> I"m thinking more about Enterprise use. All the intranets I wade in and

A "business class" device, rather than a "consumer class" device.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #112.
I will not rely entirely upon "totally reliable" *****s that can be
neutralized by relatively inconspicuous talismans.

---

› See More: The TILT versus anything thing else

Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Todd Allcock said:

> To echo Scott's sentiment, if you don't like the default operation of
> something with WinMo, change it.
>
> Too many clicks to get to an app? A Today Plug in can list all of your
> most used apps on the Today (Home) screen. Voice Command makes almost

That's just it: I don't want it to open on the Today screen unless I
turn it on with a button mapped to the calendar.

> > Then I have
> > to locate and select the app from what appears to be a randomized list,
>
> "Alphabetical" is randomized?

It wasn't alphabetical. That's my point. Nor was it "folders first",
so far as I can remember, nor was there any way for me to manually
group them.

> All defined by you, if you wish. I use hierarchal folders for lesser-used
> apps and place the 4 or 5 most used on the Start Menu bar itself (much like
> my home PC.)

Exact opposite of my use. I use the desktop for my most-used
applications and the Start menu for everything else. AAMOF, I rarely
have to open the Start menu to use my computer.

> So? The idea is that they act fairly similarlyso users of one can quickly
> adapt to the other. The Start menu works similarly, the OK Button closs a
> window, etc.

And except for newer HTC devices (Tilt), the red X button does not
close the program, only hides the window.

> > And from what
> > I've read, PalmOS actually has better compatibility to Windows than
> > WinMob does.
>
> In what way? Both platforms have minor quirks and issues with syncing, PIM
> file compatibility, etc.

I use Pocket Mirror to sync my Treo to Outlook, zero problems. I use
Documents To Go to sync a few Word, Excel and text docs, with zero
problems AND use them in their native formats (meaning I can copy them
as-is from the card to any PC and use the files). Ultrasoft Money
syncs seamlessly to Microsoft Money. The only problems I have with
synching is occasionally I have to re-seat the Treo in its cradle or
restart Hotsync.

ActiveSync, otoh, has been a nightmare. My step-mother has been unable
to sync hers (don't know what model, made by Audiovox before HTC bought
the business) since she upgraded to a Vista PC. My step-sister and her
husband both just got Moto Qs, and neither one of them can get either
of theirs to sync to their XP computer. In the brief time I had a
Tilt, syncing failed about half the time.

I don't know about them, but mine was factory-fresh, no add-ons to the
Tilt or to ActiveSync.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #112.
I will not rely entirely upon "totally reliable" *****s that can be
neutralized by relatively inconspicuous talismans.

At 04 Jun 2008 11:32:12 -0400 Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:

> That's just it: I don't want it to open on the Today screen unless I
> turn it on with a button mapped to the calendar.

I think you're missing the pount of the (ill-named) "Today" screen. For a
WinMo device, that's your desktop- not a calendar screen. It's more of a
user-configurable device "status report" that displays (at your option)
date/time, unread e-mail counts, next appointment, task list, wireless
status, etc. and can act as a "quick launch" to several apps or functions.

> > "Alphabetical" is randomized?
>
> It wasn't alphabetical. That's my point. Nor was it "folders first",
> so far as I can remember, nor was there any way for me to manually
> group them.

I'm not sure what you were looking at, then. Maybe the Start Menu? That's
sectional and more random looking- the top third is a user-selectable
program/folder list, the middle third contains the last x# of recently
launched apps,and the bottom contains the "Programs" menu (folder) and
Settings (the mobile equivalent of desktop Windows' "Control Panel")

The Programs menu is alphbetical, folders first.

> > All defined by you, if you wish. I use hierarchal folders for lesser-
used
> > apps and place the 4 or 5 most used on the Start Menu bar itself (much
like
> > my home PC.)
>
> Exact opposite of my use. I use the desktop for my most-used
> applications and the Start menu for everything else.

Oh, you're one of THOSE people! ;-)

I'm a clean deasktop guy and use the Task bar quick launch for most common
apps, and the Start Menu, anally organized into hierarchal folders and sub-
folders for everything else!

> AAMOF, I rarely
> have to open the Start menu to use my computer.

That explains your attraction to Palms and the iPhone... The quasi-desktop
looking home screens... ;-)


> > So? The idea is that they act fairly similarlyso users of one can
quickly
> > adapt to the other. The Start menu works similarly, the OK Button
closs a
> > window, etc.
>
> And except for newer HTC devices (Tilt), the red X button does not
> close the program, only hides the window.

Again, if you don't like how it works, change it! Task Managers that
really close apps are (and were) plentiful, low-memory footprint, and
usually freeware. In practice, they were generally also unnecessary.
Although anal people (like myself!) groused about WinMo memory management
(apps stayed open until the OS closed them itself when deemed necessary) it
actually worked quite well unless errant 3rd-party apps mucked it up. The
native apps behaved quite well with it. (But I used a task manager with an
"X closes app" function nonetheless!)

> > > And from what
> > > I've read, PalmOS actually has better compatibility to Windows than
> > > WinMob does.
> >
> > In what way? Both platforms have minor quirks and issues with syncing,
PIM
> > file compatibility, etc.
>
> I use Pocket Mirror to sync my Treo to Outlook, zero problems. I use
> Documents To Go to sync a few Word, Excel and text docs, with zero
> problems AND use them in their native formats (meaning I can copy them
> as-is from the card to any PC and use the files). Ultrasoft Money
> syncs seamlessly to Microsoft Money. The only problems I have with
> synching is occasionally I have to re-seat the Treo in its cradle or
> restart Hotsync.

I've never been a Palm guy, but my brother-in-law was, and used to regale
me with his horror stories of Palm Hotsync problems. He wanted to stick
with Palm in the worst way, but recently came over to the "dark side",
trading his Pamo-OS Treo 650 for a 700wx WinMo phone.

> ActiveSync, otoh, has been a nightmare. My step-mother has been unable
> to sync hers (don't know what model, made by Audiovox before HTC bought
> the business) since she upgraded to a Vista PC. My step-sister and her
> husband both just got Moto Qs, and neither one of them can get either
> of theirs to sync to their XP computer. In the brief time I had a
> Tilt, syncing failed about half the time.
>
> I don't know about them, but mine was factory-fresh, no add-ons to the
> Tilt or to ActiveSync.


Those headaches are fairly recent- while Activesync has always been a bit
finicky, it really wasn't a nightmare until Vista's new AS-replacement, WMDC.
(Tell your step-sis and hubby to uncheck "Enable Advanced Network
Functionality" in the Q's Connections applet- it causes firewall software
to block Activesync because the sync appears to be an attempted connection
from another network.)

Jeffrey Kaplan <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> ActiveSync, otoh, has been a nightmare. My step-mother has been unable
> to sync hers (don't know what model, made by Audiovox before HTC bought
> the business) since she upgraded to a Vista PC.

You apparently don't use activesync with vista, as the functions seem
native to the OS. At least that's what the WinMobile site suggests.
Wouldn't really know, as I'd do anything I could to avoid running Vista
while that's still possible.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Why all the Vista bashing?
been runnin Vista since beta and it rocks compared to XPee!
Never one bsod-ever with Vista, unlike XPee.
No issues with WMDC either

Jeff

"Scott Seidman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jeffrey Kaplan <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> ActiveSync, otoh, has been a nightmare. My step-mother has been unable
>> to sync hers (don't know what model, made by Audiovox before HTC bought
>> the business) since she upgraded to a Vista PC.
>
> You apparently don't use activesync with vista, as the functions seem
> native to the OS. At least that's what the WinMobile site suggests.
> Wouldn't really know, as I'd do anything I could to avoid running Vista
> while that's still possible.
>
> --
> Scott
> Reverse name to reply

At 05 Jun 2008 11:32:47 -0400 Jeff wrote:
> Why all the Vista bashing?
> been runnin Vista since beta and it rocks compared to XPee!
> Never one bsod-ever with Vista, unlike XPee.
> No issues with WMDC either

Apparently you don't own older WinCE equipment. Activesync works with my
Audiovox Maestro (2002) and NEC 790 (HPC 2000.) Can't say the same for
Vista's WMDC! ;-

At 05 Jun 2008 14:45:55 +0000 Scott Seidman wrote:

> You apparently don't use activesync with vista, as the functions seem
> native to the OS.

Kinda sorta. Windows Mobile Device Center ("Activesync for Vista") is still
a separate download that automatically installs when you plug in your first
WinMo device, so it "feels" more integrated.

> At least that's what the WinMobile site suggests.

IMO, "integrated" would be plug-n-play- i.e. I plug in a WinMo device and
it shows up as a "drive" I can manipulate, or a "modem" I can use, without
having to install a 10-20MB "Device Center!" ;-)

(Just today, in fact, I had to load Activesync on my XP-based Asus EEE PC
laptop solely to use my WinMo phone as a modem! I'll be visiting family
without WiFi next week, and needed to install an 8MB Activesync download
just to have the needed 100kb USB modem driver for the phone available!


> Wouldn't really know, as I'd do anything I could to avoid running Vista
> while that's still possible.

Vista is ok- it's cute looking and more beginner-friendly than XP, but it's
dog-slow and has a nastily huge footprint. I almost rolled my last new PC
(a Compaq laptop) back to XP, but figured I should get some Vista "flying
time" logged, remembering that I hated XP at first as well, preferring
Win98SE to it for all the same reasons I hated Vista at first (XP was too
big/slow/flashy vs. 98) so fair is fair- Vista is growing on me (albeit
slowly!)

nope-the Tilt is my first

Jeff

"Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> At 05 Jun 2008 11:32:47 -0400 Jeff wrote:
>> Why all the Vista bashing?
>> been runnin Vista since beta and it rocks compared to XPee!
>> Never one bsod-ever with Vista, unlike XPee.
>> No issues with WMDC either
>
> Apparently you don't own older WinCE equipment. Activesync works with my
> Audiovox Maestro (2002) and NEC 790 (HPC 2000.) Can't say the same for
> Vista's WMDC! ;-
>
>
>

Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Todd Allcock said:

> > That's just it: I don't want it to open on the Today screen unless I
> > turn it on with a button mapped to the calendar.
> I think you're missing the pount of the (ill-named) "Today" screen. For a
> WinMo device, that's your desktop- not a calendar screen. It's more of a
> user-configurable device "status report" that displays (at your option)
> date/time, unread e-mail counts, next appointment, task list, wireless
> status, etc. and can act as a "quick launch" to several apps or functions.

I looked for a way to change the start-up/desktop display to what I
want, or at least to reconfigure what's shown, and I could not find
anything substantial.

I am aware that there are third party programs that probably could do
that, but IMO if I do not at least like the base software, it is not
worth the effort, hassle or money to force it otherwise.

> > It wasn't alphabetical. That's my point. Nor was it "folders first",
> > so far as I can remember, nor was there any way for me to manually
> > group them.
>
> I'm not sure what you were looking at, then. Maybe the Start Menu? That's

I know the difference. I'm talking about the Programs +window+, opened
from the Start menu.

> > Exact opposite of my use. I use the desktop for my most-used
> > applications and the Start menu for everything else.
> Oh, you're one of THOSE people! ;-)

Yep.

> I'm a clean deasktop guy and use the Task bar quick launch for most common
> apps, and the Start Menu, anally organized into hierarchal folders and sub-
> folders for everything else!

I keep the Start menu on my XP machine strictly organized so I can find
things. Not so much on my Vista machine, since Vista has that very
handy Search bar in the Start menu that often makes it faster to Search
than Browse for the shortcut.

> That explains your attraction to Palms and the iPhone... The quasi-desktop
> looking home screens... ;-)

Now you understand!

> I've never been a Palm guy, but my brother-in-law was, and used to regale
> me with his horror stories of Palm Hotsync problems. He wanted to stick
> with Palm in the worst way, but recently came over to the "dark side",
> trading his Pamo-OS Treo 650 for a 700wx WinMo phone.

The 650 had some problems, particularly earlier releases of it. I used
to have a Cingular co-branded one (actually, several... I wound up
exchanging for a new one a few times under warrantee). Then I upgraded
to an unlocked 680 and my problems diminished (not went away, just less
of them).

> > I don't know about them, but mine was factory-fresh, no add-ons to the
> > Tilt or to ActiveSync.
>
> Those headaches are fairly recent- while Activesync has always been a bit
> finicky, it really wasn't a nightmare until Vista's new AS-replacement, WMDC.

Only one person in this set is using Vista with a WinMob device.

> (Tell your step-sis and hubby to uncheck "Enable Advanced Network
> Functionality" in the Q's Connections applet- it causes firewall software
> to block Activesync because the sync appears to be an attempted connection
> from another network.)

Now that you mention it, I dimly recall having to uncheck that on my XP
setup.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when
it happens." Woody Allen

Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Scott Seidman said:

> You apparently don't use activesync with vista, as the functions seem
> native to the OS. At least that's what the WinMobile site suggests.
> Wouldn't really know, as I'd do anything I could to avoid running Vista
> while that's still possible.

What's wrong with Vista? It works just fine for me. In many of my
tasks, it's faster than XP - while installed on a slower system with
less capacity.

Startup takes forever, though.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"The Superior Person's Book Of Words", by Peter Bowler: DECALCOMANIA:
A transfer - i.e., a picture or design of some kind imprinted on a
paper in such a way as to permit its being transferred, after wetting,
to another surface. Nowadays what used to be called simply
'transfers' are coming to be called 'decals' - which is simply an
abbreviation of the above word.

Jeffrey Kaplan <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Scott Seidman said:
>
>> You apparently don't use activesync with vista, as the functions seem
>> native to the OS. At least that's what the WinMobile site suggests.
>> Wouldn't really know, as I'd do anything I could to avoid running Vista
>> while that's still possible.
>
> What's wrong with Vista? It works just fine for me. In many of my
> tasks, it's faster than XP - while installed on a slower system with
> less capacity.
>
> Startup takes forever, though.
>

Aside from plenty of folks having backward compatibility problems, it's
bloatware. The added functionality is largely imaginary, it requires a
much bigger footprint than XP, has much more required user interaction when
doing anything mildly invasive, requires a ton more memory. The
recommended platform for the premium version is 1 1GHz processor, with
1GByte system memory, 15 GBytes of disk space, and 128 Megs of video
memory!! All for no real improvement.

For comparison, XP needs a 300MHz processor, 128Megs of RAM, and 1.5 Gigs
of disk space (though the latter is probably a bit tight).


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Scott Seidman said:

> > What's wrong with Vista? It works just fine for me. In many of my
> Aside from plenty of folks having backward compatibility problems, it's

The only compatibility problem I've had between Vista and XP software
was my firewall. I wasn't too happy with it anyway so I was going to
get another one regardless.

> bloatware. The added functionality is largely imaginary, it requires a

There are a few big improvements and a lot of little ones. And
apparently, quite a bit of optimization. Did I mention that for most
of my tasks, Vista is FASTER than XP, despite my copy of XP being on
faster hardware?

> much bigger footprint than XP, has much more required user interaction when
> doing anything mildly invasive, requires a ton more memory. The

My copy of Vista (Ultimate, btw) is running with Aero Glass enabled, on
a video card that is less studly than that in my XP machine. It's
still faster. My Vista system has 2G of RAM and an Athlon X2 1.8GHz
CPU, compared to my XP Pro system's 3G of RAM and Athlon X2 2.4Ghz CPU.
Why is Vista faster? Oh, and my Vista machine is on a lower-end Compaq
laptop - slower CPU, slower memory, slower bus, slower hard drive.

My copy of Vista does not require any more user interaction than my
copy of XP (yes, I turned off UAC).

> recommended platform for the premium version is 1 1GHz processor, with
> 1GByte system memory, 15 GBytes of disk space, and 128 Megs of video
> memory!! All for no real improvement.
>
> For comparison, XP needs a 300MHz processor, 128Megs of RAM, and 1.5 Gigs
> of disk space (though the latter is probably a bit tight).

Have you ever tried to actually USE XP on that "minimum requirements"
setup? You could do laundry while waiting for it to finish a task. The
usable minimums for Vista are not that much more than the usable
minimums for XP.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

Notes on Fortress Construction: 9. Your computer systems should have
uninterruptable power supplies, and your circuitry should use breakers
or fuses with the appropriate tolerances.

Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, [email protected] said:

> > http://www.techshout.com/mobile-phon...h-pro-mobile-p...
> >
> > Anyone know about this new HTC phone??
>
> A little more information. http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=49518
> Thje HTC site says it is now at several providers

Apparently, none of them are in North America.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"I can help you with the big words if you're having trouble." (Matthew
Stoner, B5 "Soul Mates")

What about it? It is a Touch Diamond with a slid out keyboard, which makes
it bigger and more expensive.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:d7e4a326-b11b-4527-a00d-7e9c31cc6c81@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 6, 10:28 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> On Jun 3, 3:25 pm, Jeffrey Kaplan <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Scott Seidman said:
>>
>> > > > I did not know the Diamond had no keyboard. That diminishes it
>> > > > IMO.
>> > > It doesn't have a physical keyboard. Every WM Pro device can run a
>> > > virtual
>> > > keyboard, no?
>>
>> > See what I said about the styli and finger use.
>>
>> > --
>> > Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
>> > The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol
>>
>> > "Emilio Lizardo. Wasn't he on TV once?" "You're thinking of Mr.
>> > Wizard." "Emilio Lizardo is a top scientist, dumbkopf." "So was Mr.
>> > Wizard." (Perfect Tommy, Buckaroo Banzai and Reno, "Buckaroo Banzai")
>>
>> http://www.techshout.com/mobile-phon...h-pro-mobile-p...
>>
>> Anyone know about this new HTC phone??
>
> A little more information. http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=49518
> Thje HTC site says it is now at several providers