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  1. #1
    Scott Seidman
    Guest
    "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in news:a71b576a-
    [email protected]:

    > I currently have the 8525 and considering the TILT when they offer the
    > refurb for free again on the Packages and Deals page. Can anyone tell
    > me if there is anything else that is comparable to the TILT or 8525. I
    > like most the touch screen and the WIN Mobile 6 on them both. I now
    > have a phone and the PPC so I am looking for something smaller so I
    > can add the vioce and data plan on one device. The 8525 in pretty
    > large. I plan to stay with AT&T. Thanks for any suggestions.


    I was leaning toward a tilt till I held on in a Cingular shop. Be sure you
    hold the device in your hands before committing.

    --
    Scott
    Reverse name to reply



    See More: The TILT versus anything thing else




  2. #2
    skip
    Guest

    Re: The TILT versus anything thing else

    Scott Seidman <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:a71b576a-
    > [email protected]:
    >
    >> I currently have the 8525 and considering the TILT when they offer
    >> the refurb for free again on the Packages and Deals page. Can anyone
    >> tell me if there is anything else that is comparable to the TILT or
    >> 8525. I like most the touch screen and the WIN Mobile 6 on them both.
    >> I now have a phone and the PPC so I am looking for something smaller
    >> so I can add the vioce and data plan on one device. The 8525 in
    >> pretty large. I plan to stay with AT&T. Thanks for any suggestions.

    >
    > I was leaning toward a tilt till I held on in a Cingular shop. Be
    > sure you hold the device in your hands before committing.
    >


    I agree with this it is a bit of a brick. I got the Moterola q9 instead.



  3. #3
    Jeffrey Kaplan
    Guest

    Re: The TILT versus anything thing else

    Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Scott Seidman said:

    > I was leaning toward a tilt till I held on in a Cingular shop. Be sure you
    > hold the device in your hands before committing.


    Was it a display model, or a real one from an unopened box? When
    something has moving parts, you can never, ever, judge how a real one
    will feel from the display model. The display models are abuse
    magnets, and the sliders/flips/tilts, etc, all get beat to hell by the
    kids.

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #34.
    I will not turn into a snake. It never helps.



  4. #4
    Scott Seidman
    Guest

    Re: The TILT versus anything thing else

    Jeffrey Kaplan <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Was it a display model, or a real one from an unopened box? When
    > something has moving parts, you can never, ever, judge how a real one
    > will feel from the display model. The display models are abuse
    > magnets, and the sliders/flips/tilts, etc, all get beat to hell by the
    > kids.



    You're right about that, but you can still tell the weight and size. Even
    though the display models see abuse, you can still sort of tell about how
    fragile they might be.

    --
    Scott
    Reverse name to reply



  5. #5
    Jeffrey Kaplan
    Guest

    Re: The TILT versus anything thing else

    Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Scott Seidman said:

    > You're right about that, but you can still tell the weight and size. Even
    > though the display models see abuse, you can still sort of tell about how
    > fragile they might be.


    In my personal experience, the only flip/fold/slide/whatever phone that
    felt the same in quality between display model and actual phone was the
    Kyocera 7135 I had with Verizon. That was one truly solidly built
    item.

    The next-best solid flip phone I had was a StarTac. The phone felt
    solid, the display item felt fragile. Since then, I've discounted the
    feel of the movements when evaluating things based on a display item.

    As far as the Tilt goes, I had tried one, I had one for about a day.
    The reason I returned it had nothing to do with its size, weight, or
    construction. I had no problems with any of those (though the feel of
    the keys on the keyboard left me wanting a bit). I returned it because
    I still cannot stand WinMob. I'm currently using a Treo, and I'm
    looking towards an iPhone in a couple of weeks.

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    It doesn't matter what temperature a room is, it's always room
    temperature. (Steven Wright)



  6. #6
    Jeffrey Kaplan
    Guest

    Re: The TILT versus anything thing else

    Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, [email protected] said:

    > Does anyone know where you can get info future releases on PDAs or
    > phones, like the HTC Diamond.


    Releases? Nothing but rumors for anything until announced/confirmed by
    the manufactures and/or carriers. Just know that North America
    generally lags behind Europe and Asia when it comes to cellular
    devices.

    Places to check include Engadget.com, phonescoop.com, Treocentral.com
    (for Palm Treos of either OS), WMExperts.com (for WinMob),
    register.co.uk's Hardware section, among others.

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    "You'd think Zoe would be happy to be human again! So what if she was
    naked." "Zoe was naked?" "You really do need to get away from that
    PS2." - Riff and Torg, Sluggy Freelance



  7. #7
    Scott Seidman
    Guest

    Re: The TILT versus anything thing else

    "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > On Jun 3, 11:58 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >> On Jun 2, 8:30 pm, Jeffrey Kaplan <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Scott Seidman said:

    >>
    >> > > You're right about that, but you can still tell the weight and
    >> > > size. Even though the display models see abuse, you can still
    >> > > sort of tell about how fragile they might be.

    >>
    >> > In my personal experience, the only flip/fold/slide/whatever phone
    >> > that felt the same in quality between display model and actual
    >> > phone was the Kyocera 7135 I had with Verizon. That was one truly
    >> > solidly built item.

    >>
    >> > The next-best solid flip phone I had was a StarTac. The phone felt
    >> > solid, the display item felt fragile. Since then, I've discounted
    >> > the feel of the movements when evaluating things based on a display
    >> > item.

    >>
    >> > As far as the Tilt goes, I had tried one, I had one for about a
    >> > day. The reason I returned it had nothing to do with its size,
    >> > weight, or construction. I had no problems with any of those
    >> > (though the feel of the keys on the keyboard left me wanting a
    >> > bit). I returned it because I still cannot stand WinMob. I'm
    >> > currently using a Treo, and I'm looking towards an iPhone in a
    >> > couple of weeks.

    >>
    >> > --
    >> > Jeffrey Kaplan
    >> > www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send
    >> > personal mail to gordol

    >>
    >> > It doesn't matter what temperature a room is, it's always room
    >> > temperature. (Steven Wright)

    >>
    >> Does anyone know where you can get info future releases on PDAs or
    >> phones, like the HTC Diamond.

    >
    >
    > I am narrowed it down to the Palm Treo 750 versus the TILT. What do
    > you guys think? pros and cons



    I opted not to bulk up with a keyboard, so I would go with neither, and
    have the touch cruise on order

    I'd eliminate the Treo right away because it has no WiFi.


    --
    Scott
    Reverse name to reply



  8. #8
    Jeffrey Kaplan
    Guest

    Re: The TILT versus anything thing else

    Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, [email protected] said:

    > I am narrowed it down to the Palm Treo 750 versus the TILT. What do
    > you guys think? pros and cons


    With that selection, the Tilt. The Tilt uses a newer version of the
    OS. The Tilt has a better display. The Tilt has GPS and WiFi. The
    Tilt can use higher capacity memory cards.

    About the only thing the Treo 750 does better is it has a better
    keyboard.

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #165.
    As an equal-opportunity employer, I will have several hearing-impaired
    body-guards. That way if I wish to speak confidentially with someone,
    I'll just turn my back so the guards can't read my lips instead of
    sending all of them out of the room.



  9. #9
    Scott Seidman
    Guest

    Re: The TILT versus anything thing else

    Jeffrey Kaplan <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, [email protected] said:
    >
    >> I am narrowed it down to the Palm Treo 750 versus the TILT. What do
    >> you guys think? pros and cons

    >
    > With that selection, the Tilt. The Tilt uses a newer version of the
    > OS. The Tilt has a better display. The Tilt has GPS and WiFi. The
    > Tilt can use higher capacity memory cards.
    >
    > About the only thing the Treo 750 does better is it has a better
    > keyboard.
    >


    Depends also on how married you are to the keyboard. It makes the device
    big and heavy. You asked about the Diamond, which has no keyboard. The
    cruise is much like the Diamond, the connectivity is great, and people who
    have one seem very happy with it. The downside is that an expensive
    unlocked phone seems to be the only real option. If I needed to go with a
    cell providers phone, it might very well be the tilt.

    --
    Scott
    Reverse name to reply



  10. #10
    Jeffrey Kaplan
    Guest

    Re: The TILT versus anything thing else

    Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Scott Seidman said:

    > > About the only thing the Treo 750 does better is it has a better
    > > keyboard.

    > Depends also on how married you are to the keyboard. It makes the device
    > big and heavy. You asked about the Diamond, which has no keyboard. The


    I prefer a (qwerty) keypad of some type over handwriting recognition.
    The styli included are too thin for comfort in my hands and it's
    inconvenient to always pull one out of my pocket. Whether the keypad
    is physical, like on a Treo, Tilt, etc, or virtual like on the iPhone,
    doesn't matter to me so long as I can use it with my fingers or thumbs.

    I did not know the Diamond had no keyboard. That diminishes it IMO.

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    "I'm trying to protect my invest... my contributors from unscrupulous
    practices." - George W. Bush



  11. #11
    Scott Seidman
    Guest

    Re: The TILT versus anything thing else

    Jeffrey Kaplan <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Scott Seidman said:
    >
    >> > About the only thing the Treo 750 does better is it has a better
    >> > keyboard.

    >> Depends also on how married you are to the keyboard. It makes the
    >> device big and heavy. You asked about the Diamond, which has no
    >> keyboard. The

    >
    > I prefer a (qwerty) keypad of some type over handwriting recognition.
    > The styli included are too thin for comfort in my hands and it's
    > inconvenient to always pull one out of my pocket. Whether the keypad
    > is physical, like on a Treo, Tilt, etc, or virtual like on the iPhone,
    > doesn't matter to me so long as I can use it with my fingers or
    > thumbs.
    >
    > I did not know the Diamond had no keyboard. That diminishes it IMO.
    >



    It doesn't have a physical keyboard. Every WM Pro device can run a virtual
    keyboard, no?



    --
    Scott
    Reverse name to reply



  12. #12
    Jeffrey Kaplan
    Guest

    Re: The TILT versus anything thing else

    Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Scott Seidman said:

    > > I did not know the Diamond had no keyboard. That diminishes it IMO.

    > It doesn't have a physical keyboard. Every WM Pro device can run a virtual
    > keyboard, no?


    See what I said about the styli and finger use.

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    "Emilio Lizardo. Wasn't he on TV once?" "You're thinking of Mr.
    Wizard." "Emilio Lizardo is a top scientist, dumbkopf." "So was Mr.
    Wizard." (Perfect Tommy, Buckaroo Banzai and Reno, "Buckaroo Banzai")



  13. #13
    Jeffrey Kaplan
    Guest

    Re: The TILT versus anything thing else

    Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Scott Seidman said:

    > > See what I said about the styli and finger use.

    > There are some really good keyboards that work pretty well with fingers,
    > like the free, customizable, and very highly rated pocketcm,
    > http://www.pocketcm.com/screenshot.php?v=3. For big-time typing, I have a
    > bluetooth keyboard, but I don't see myself carrying it very often.


    Nice to see there are good options available.

    > I really like the PocketPC platform, and have used it for years. I really


    I don't. While the calendar is an important feature, it's not the only
    thing I use a PDA for and I absolutely HATE the fact that to open the
    list of programs takes FOUR button presses or screen taps. Then I have
    to locate and select the app from what appears to be a randomized list,
    assuming that what I want is even in that window and not in yet another
    window I have to locate and open from an icon that gives no indication
    as to whether it's a folder or application.

    > dislike carrying two devices. Since I've opted to carry my phone instead
    > of the PC, I figure replacing it with a WMPro platform with a really nice
    > phone interface is the way to go for me, but everybody needs to assess


    Something most people just don't seem to get is that Windows Mobile is
    NOT a scaled down version of Windows from the desktop. They are two
    completely different systems that are named similarly. And from what
    I've read, PalmOS actually has better compatibility to Windows than
    WinMob does. PalmOS has its own set of issues and problems, but that's
    another topic.

    > their own needs. My WM needs really are calendar access, and other PDA-
    > type functions, none of which are typing heavy. For those few times when a


    Me neither, which is one reason why what I'm going to be replacing my
    Treo with does not have a full-time always-there keyboard. I tried the
    Tilt, which has a slide-out keyboard, and my next attempt will be an
    iPhone which has a virtual keyboard that's only there when needed.

    > keyboard would be very nice, I lose out, but I have the bluetooth option to
    > fall back on. In other works, I'm looking for a phone with a PocketPC, not
    > a PocketPC with a phone-- which is sort of how I view the Treo. I'm well
    > aware that I'm choosing a compromise, but I can't believe that this choice
    > isn't fairly common.


    It's not. Not until "they" decide to fully integrate a "real" PC into
    a palm-sized portable phone.

    > That aside, I think that in the year 2008, its a bit silly not to have a
    > WiFi capable device, though. I'd think long and hard before buying
    > something without Wifi.


    As you said, it depends on the individual user's needs. With unlimited
    cellular data and either HSPA(?) for GSM or EVDO for CDMA, is public
    WiFi really significantly faster? Speaking personally, the only public
    WiFi I've ever used was rated at a max of 1Mbs but in practical use was
    slower.

    --
    Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
    The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

    "Weaponry? What do you call all this stuff in the back of your
    truck?" "Party favors." "You're starting to grow on me, Riff. Quit
    it." - Bun-bun and Riff, Sluggy Freelance



  14. #14
    Scott Seidman
    Guest

    Re: The TILT versus anything thing else

    Jeffrey Kaplan <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Scott Seidman said:
    >
    >> > See what I said about the styli and finger use.

    >> There are some really good keyboards that work pretty well with
    >> fingers, like the free, customizable, and very highly rated pocketcm,
    >> http://www.pocketcm.com/screenshot.php?v=3. For big-time typing, I
    >> have a bluetooth keyboard, but I don't see myself carrying it very
    >> often.

    >
    > Nice to see there are good options available.
    >
    >> I really like the PocketPC platform, and have used it for years. I
    >> really

    >
    > I don't. While the calendar is an important feature, it's not the
    > only thing I use a PDA for and I absolutely HATE the fact that to open
    > the list of programs takes FOUR button presses or screen taps. Then I
    > have to locate and select the app from what appears to be a randomized
    > list, assuming that what I want is even in that window and not in yet
    > another window I have to locate and open from an icon that gives no
    > indication as to whether it's a folder or application.


    My BatteryBar app lets me put a whole slew of icons right on my Today
    Screen. If I open something more than once a week, thats where it goes,
    and its one mouse click to run. There are all sorts of nifty utilities
    like this, and years of PPC use helps you find them.

    >
    >> dislike carrying two devices. Since I've opted to carry my phone
    >> instead of the PC, I figure replacing it with a WMPro platform with a
    >> really nice phone interface is the way to go for me, but everybody
    >> needs to assess

    >
    > Something most people just don't seem to get is that Windows Mobile is
    > NOT a scaled down version of Windows from the desktop. They are two
    > completely different systems that are named similarly. And from what
    > I've read, PalmOS actually has better compatibility to Windows than
    > WinMob does. PalmOS has its own set of issues and problems, but
    > that's another topic.


    Did the Palm thing, hated it. Wouldn't do it again. Plus, its officially
    dead, frozen forever at where it is now. WM has its problems, but it does
    way more than the iPhone, who's SDK doesn't seem to have been picked up in
    a major way. I've been using PPC's for years, and the interface with
    outlook is trouble free compared to Palm.

    >
    >> their own needs. My WM needs really are calendar access, and other
    >> PDA- type functions, none of which are typing heavy. For those few
    >> times when a

    >
    > Me neither, which is one reason why what I'm going to be replacing my
    > Treo with does not have a full-time always-there keyboard. I tried
    > the Tilt, which has a slide-out keyboard, and my next attempt will be
    > an iPhone which has a virtual keyboard that's only there when needed.


    Give it a year. The new iPhone looks like it will be expensive, and isn't
    really that major a step. It is a nice interface, but WM is starting to
    rumble about a multi touch screen. Sony's next WMPro platform looks pretty
    promising, but short of multi touch. The Euro diamond has become
    available over the last few days in the states, BTW, and people don't seem
    amazed enough by it to make it worth waiting for. I imagine that the WMPro
    system will be very competitive with the iPhone before too much time
    passes. For me, it already wins-- but I don't tend to play music. If I
    did, maybe the iPhone would be nudged up a place or two.


    >
    >> keyboard would be very nice, I lose out, but I have the bluetooth
    >> option to fall back on. In other works, I'm looking for a phone with
    >> a PocketPC, not a PocketPC with a phone-- which is sort of how I view
    >> the Treo. I'm well aware that I'm choosing a compromise, but I can't
    >> believe that this choice isn't fairly common.

    >
    > It's not. Not until "they" decide to fully integrate a "real" PC into
    > a palm-sized portable phone.


    I don't see that happening soon. Heat dispersion and battery life are the
    limiting steps, not some corporate fat cat thinking we're not ready for it.
    I think there needs to be another creative link for interfacing a whole
    computer through a 2.5" screen, also. For what I do with computers, I don't
    see myself working on less than a 10" screen, ever-- which means I'd still
    need to carry a phone around.

    >
    >> That aside, I think that in the year 2008, its a bit silly not to
    >> have a WiFi capable device, though. I'd think long and hard before
    >> buying something without Wifi.

    >
    > As you said, it depends on the individual user's needs. With
    > unlimited cellular data and either HSPA(?) for GSM or EVDO for CDMA,
    > is public WiFi really significantly faster? Speaking personally, the
    > only public WiFi I've ever used was rated at a max of 1Mbs but in
    > practical use was slower.
    >


    I"m thinking more about Enterprise use. All the intranets I wade in and
    out of. I don't need significantly faster than WiFi. I don't have the
    need to stream music and vids on my phone. I guess I don't really want a
    computer strapped to my belt. I want a phone plus.

    --
    Scott
    Reverse name to reply



  15. #15
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: The TILT versus anything thing else

    At 03 Jun 2008 16:42:52 -0400 Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:


    > Nice to see there are good options available.
    >
    > > I really like the PocketPC platform, and have used it for years. I

    really
    >
    > I don't. While the calendar is an important feature, it's not the only
    > thing I use a PDA for and I absolutely HATE the fact that to open the
    > list of programs takes FOUR button presses or screen taps.


    To echo Scott's sentiment, if you don't like the default operation of
    something with WinMo, change it.

    Too many clicks to get to an app? A Today Plug in can list all of your
    most used apps on the Today (Home) screen. Voice Command makes almost
    everthing a one-press operation: press apre-assigned key and say "Open
    <name of app>!"

    > Then I have
    > to locate and select the app from what appears to be a randomized list,


    "Alphabetical" is randomized?

    > assuming that what I want is even in that window and not in yet another
    > window I have to locate and open from an icon that gives no indication
    > as to whether it's a folder or application.

    All defined by you, if you wish. I use hierarchal folders for lesser-used
    apps and place the 4 or 5 most used on the Start Menu bar itself (much like
    my home PC.)


    > Something most people just don't seem to get is that Windows Mobile is
    > NOT a scaled down version of Windows from the desktop. They are two
    > completely different systems that are named similarly.


    So? The idea is that they act fairly similarlyso users of one can quickly
    adapt to the other. The Start menu works similarly, the OK Button closs a
    window, etc.

    > And from what
    > I've read, PalmOS actually has better compatibility to Windows than
    > WinMob does.


    In what way? Both platforms have minor quirks and issues with syncing, PIM
    file compatibility, etc.


    > > That aside, I think that in the year 2008, its a bit silly not to have

    a
    > > WiFi capable device, though. I'd think long and hard before buying
    > > something without Wifi.

    >
    > As you said, it depends on the individual user's needs. With unlimited
    > cellular data and either HSPA(?) for GSM or EVDO for CDMA, is public
    > WiFi really significantly faster? Speaking personally, the only public
    > WiFi I've ever used was rated at a max of 1Mbs but in practical use was
    > slower.



    WiFi is for more than internet connections. It's also a quick way to copy
    files between devices without cables. I can browse my home network shares
    and copy files to PPC phone via WiFi. I can use my PPC phone's VoIP via
    WiFi if I'm in an area without cell coverage (a hotel in rural Nebraska) or
    where cellular is cost prohibitive (a hotel in Cancun.)

    For the very small incremental manufacturing cost, there's no reason not to
    have WiFi on a high-end device in this day and age. (And put the IR back
    in- too many devices are leaving it off now- IR is the ideal "lowes-common-
    denominator" file transfer mechnaism since EVERY PDA built until a year or
    two ago had it. I have an IR dongle on all my PCs so I never have to keep
    track of various PDA or phone sync cables- everything I own can sync via BT
    or IR.)





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