Re: Here comes the cell phone ad disaster!

At 17 Jun 2008 18:57:33 -0700 4phun wrote:


> > Or can it snarf cell tower polling or incoming calls from the airwaves
> > and your phone responding?
>
> http://news.cnet.com/Advertising-see...--page-2/2100-
1039_3-6115617-2.html
>
>
> A couple of years ago CNet observed, "For example, advertisers could
> use location information to send SMS (Short Message Service) text
> messages to cell phone subscribers traveling to a new city. The
> messages could tout nearby restaurants or could include coupons to be
> used at certain locations. " How do they get such data? The business
> uses a programmed robot to monitor the exchange of passing cell phone
> handshakes to a nearby cell tower. They can then automatically
> initiate a SMS to your passing phone.

No, they don't! The scenarios mentioned in that article and elsewhere all
involve the cooperation of the carrier- NO advertisers are capturing
numbers from your cellphone.

The idea of location-based ads is that the advertiser strikes a deal with
the carrier who would then serve up the ad based on your location.

The scenario you're trying to describe isn't happening, period.

Larry wrote:

> It all started way back when they discovered idiot Americans would
> actually listen and buy things off the radio. Pretty much has been
> downhill since the mid 1920's.

And you can have "those good old days"!! I like the present a bunch
better. At least I have the funds to buy what I want instead of what I
had to have to survive!!

This whole thread is just so much crap & most of us know that!!!! I
don't depend on any US server to deliver my newsgroups, because I have
an overseas server paid for years in advance that will cover those
that are dropped here. astraweb.com

Tom J

"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message news:Xns9AC0E1416643noonehomecom@208.49.80.253...
>
> Just add webpages to TV, Radio, Newspapers and Magazines on the huge pile
> of excrement at the spam dump. Why anyone would actually PAY for a new
> TV, then PAY someone to deliver electronic excrement to paste up on its
> screen still amazes me.
>
> It all started way back when they discovered idiot Americans would
> actually listen and buy things off the radio. Pretty much has been
> downhill since the mid 1920's.
>

Just a quick thought....

Mind you, I'm not a fan of advertising, but then here's a good point.
Broadcast TV is free. You don't have to have cable or satellite to have TV.
All they give you is more channels (and supposedly better reception)
But, they certainly aren't mandatory to watch television.

So then who the hell then actually pays for the programming.? That's right - ads.
Basically, a necessary evil, so to speak. You want free TV - you have advertising.

Then, with a TiVo, boop, boop, boop - no ads. Works for me....

Larry the luddite - at least you are consistent - for the umpteenth time...

On Jun 17, 10:07*pm, Todd Allcock <eleccon...@AmericaOnLine.com>
wrote:
> At 17 Jun 2008 18:57:33 -0700 4phun wrote:
>
> > > Or can it snarf cell tower polling or incoming calls from the airwaves
> > > and your phone responding?
>
> >http://news.cnet.com/Advertising-see...one---page-2/2...
>
> 1039_3-6115617-2.html
>
>
>
> > A couple of years ago CNet observed, "For example, advertisers could
> > use location information to send SMS (Short Message Service) text
> > messages to cell phone subscribers traveling to a new city. The
> > messages could tout nearby restaurants or could include coupons to be
> > used at certain locations. " How do they get such data? The business
> > uses a programmed robot to monitor *the exchange of passing cell phone
> > handshakes to a nearby cell tower. They can then automatically
> > initiate a SMS to your passing phone.
>
> No, they don't! *The scenarios mentioned in that article and elsewhere all
> involve the cooperation of the carrier- NO advertisers are capturing
> numbers from your cellphone.
>
> The idea of location-based ads is that the advertiser strikes a deal with
> the carrier who would then serve up the ad based on your location.
>
> The scenario you're trying to describe isn't happening, period. *

Todd Todd you better get some medication. You are going to have your
mine blown but I figured out what they are doing and it is child's
play.

Do a Google search for 'IMSI catcher'. This is high tech GSM equipemnt
introduced a few years ago by a German firm that exploits weaknesses
in the design of the GSM network. Basically it allows for a man in the
middle attack on the GSM network that forces all nearby phones to
reveal their internal network number. Since the phone is nearby it is
perfect for receiving advertising directing them to your business.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSI-catcher

With that knowledge you can do far more than send the sucker SMS text
advertising but if you are really evil you now own their phone and can
send them special SMS data messages that reprogram it to do SPY
things. This is perfect for detectives, the CIA, and criminals in big
business.

To quote from an article several years ago...
Intercepting cellphone calls really is child's play

http://www.itwire.com/content/view/7216/127/

"I also queried his claim that interception is 'child's play' since he
had given no indication as to how the call is retrieved from the
compromised phone. It does indeed appear to be child's play. Here is
what Hafner told me:

"We can sent a service SMS to any phone (regardless of the operating
system) and reprogram the SIM card and/or parts of the phone. (A
service SMS is a specially formatted SMS that contains data
instructions for the reconfiguration /programming and/or update of
phones and SIM cards.).

"While usually a service SMS should be sent by the provider to upgrade
the SIM card and configure the phone, normal users can also simulate
this and send a service SMS. Here the phone and SIM card of the victim
are reprogrammed in a way that each entering or exiting phone call are
silently conferenced with the attacker.

"It is the victim's phone that creates a second 'hidden' conference
call to the attacker. Also the victim pays for this second telephone
call. (Equivalent to a 3-way conference call) In order not to show on
the monthly bill, the attacker can chose to get called on an anonymous
0800 number that is redirected through VoIP. In this way the call is
not charged to the victim and the number does not appear on the
monthly statement."



By goolly this stuff sounds like it was developed by Larry when he had
too much time on his hands. ;>) No wonder he calls them sell phones!

At 17 Jun 2008 19:52:57 -0700 4phun wrote:

> > No, they don't! *The scenarios mentioned in that article and elsewhere
all
> > involve the cooperation of the carrier- NO advertisers are capturing
> > numbers from your cellphone.
> >
> > The idea of location-based ads is that the advertiser strikes a deal
with
> > the carrier who would then serve up the ad based on your location.
> >
> > The scenario you're trying to describe isn't happening, period. *
>
> Todd Todd you better get some medication. You are going to have your
> mine blown but I figured out what they are doing and it is child's
> play.


I didn't say it was beyond the realm of technology- I said no advertisers
are doing it. It would P.O. both cellular customer, who don't want the
intrusion, and carriers, who'd want a piece of the action. And, if it
isn't yet illegal, it would be by the time the 100th text eminated from
such a device!

> Do a Google search for 'IMSI catcher'. This is high tech GSM equipemnt
> introduced a few years ago by a German firm that exploits weaknesses
> in the design of the GSM network. Basically it allows for a man in the
> middle attack on the GSM network that forces all nearby phones to
> reveal their internal network number. Since the phone is nearby it is
> perfect for receiving advertising directing them to your business.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSI-catcher
>

Devices used exclusively by law enforcement, and illegal for individuals or
businesses to operate (since they are unlicensed base stations on cell
frequencies and disrupt service.). You really think the local Starbucks is
going to break Federal law to text you about a Frappicino?



> With that knowledge you can do far more than send the sucker SMS text
> advertising but if you are really evil you now own their phone and can
> send them special SMS data messages that reprogram it to do SPY
> things. This is perfect for detectives, the CIA, and criminals in big
> business.
>
> To quote from an article several years ago...
> Intercepting cellphone calls really is child's play
>
> http://www.itwire.com/content/view/7216/127/
>
> "I also queried his claim that interception is 'child's play' since he
> had given no indication as to how the call is retrieved from the
> compromised phone. It does indeed appear to be child's play. Here is
> what Hafner told me:
>
> "We can sent a service SMS to any phone (regardless of the operating
> system) and reprogram the SIM card and/or parts of the phone. (A
> service SMS is a specially formatted SMS that contains data
> instructions for the reconfiguration /programming and/or update of
> phones and SIM cards.).


All BS. The SIM, despite it's seemingly magical qualities to some, can't
"reprogram" a phone. Service SMS messages CAN configure some of the
phone's parameters (data settings, MMS/SMS settings, etc.) IF the phone's
software allows for such configuration but that's about it. The SIM is
dumb animal- a serial number on a chip with some storage memory to hold
contacts, SMS messages and lookup tables.

> "While usually a service SMS should be sent by the provider to upgrade
> the SIM card and configure the phone, normal users can also simulate
> this and send a service SMS. Here the phone and SIM card of the victim
> are reprogrammed in a way that each entering or exiting phone call are
> silently conferenced with the attacker.
>
> "It is the victim's phone that creates a second 'hidden' conference
> call to the attacker. Also the victim pays for this second telephone
> call. (Equivalent to a 3-way conference call) In order not to show on
> the monthly bill, the attacker can chose to get called on an anonymous
> 0800 number that is redirected through VoIP. In this way the call is
> not charged to the victim and the number does not appear on the
> monthly statement."
>
>
>
> By goolly this stuff sounds like it was developed by Larry when he had
> too much time on his hands. ;>) No wonder he calls them sell phones!


Sounds more like one of Larry's nutty conspiracy theories.

All this "info" was relayed to the article's aut or by the alleged creator
of the technique, with no corroboration.

I'm not exactly losing any sleep over it.

Your cries of "advertising is coming to your phones and you can't stop it!"
is a typical 11:00 news-style scare story ("A common chemical found under
your sink can KILL YOU! Details at Eleven!") an exaggerated worst-case
scenario with a small germ of truth at it's core (WAP page banner ads?- Sure.

Unsolicited phone calls? Hardly.) This reminds me of the "they're going
to publish a cellular phone directory!" panic a few years ago. I'm still
waiting for my copy of that world-ending tome to be delivered...

"Ness-Net" <richard.nodamn@nessnet.spam.com> wrote in
news:6oidnWi0Kuhi78XVnZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@giganews.com :

> Larry the luddite - at least you are consistent - for the umpteenth
> time...
>
>

Tricky Dicky....always the name caller when your face is out of reach.

"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message news:Xns9AC155AE717CEnoonehomecom@208.49.80.253...
> "Ness-Net" <richard.nodamn@nessnet.spam.com> wrote in
> news:6oidnWi0Kuhi78XVnZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@giganews.com :
>
>> Larry the luddite - at least you are consistent - for the umpteenth
>> time...
>>
>>
>
> Tricky Dicky....always the name caller when your face is out of reach.

"Name calling", or just someone pointing out pure BS - or worse (bigotry, etc).

The BS and bigotry are certainly real - and I'm not the only one that regularly
calls you on it. I may just be more consistent.

You call it "name calling" I call it truth telling....
I guess the truth just stings a bit sometimes, huh?

"Ness-Net" <richard.nodamn@nessnet.spam.com> wrote in
news:cZqdnbyih-T7fMTVnZ2dnUVZ_v_inZ2d@giganews.com:

>
> "Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9AC155AE717CEnoonehomecom@208.49.80.253...
>> "Ness-Net" <richard.nodamn@nessnet.spam.com> wrote in
>> news:6oidnWi0Kuhi78XVnZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@giganews.com :
>>
>>> Larry the luddite - at least you are consistent - for the umpteenth
>>> time...
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Tricky Dicky....always the name caller when your face is out of
>> reach.
>
> "Name calling", or just someone pointing out pure BS - or worse
> (bigotry, etc).
>
> The BS and bigotry are certainly real - and I'm not the only one that
> regularly calls you on it. I may just be more consistent.
>
> You call it "name calling" I call it truth telling....
> I guess the truth just stings a bit sometimes, huh?
>

Is this where I stick out my tongue at you sitting in the sandbox?