Re: Sprint-Nextel merger?

Joe Gill wrote:

> I saw the story in WSJ on Thursday, and from what I saw the main points
> were:
> - Nextel is already embracing CDMA and is making the move to it.

Yes, Nextel has been "embracing" CDMA since 1999, when those rumors were
first published too. Seeing as iDEN has a lot more in common with GSM
than CDMA2000, it would be just as entertaining to see them migrate to
that as it would be merging with Sprint.


> - The combined network is seen as a formidable 'threat' to Verizon and
> Cingular

What threat? Sprint is #3. If they merge with Nextel, their ranking
gets bumped up to... well, gee, they stay at #3. What a coup, huh?

Sprint has a very important strongpoint going for it: its network is
fully homogenous and standardized, unlike the patchy kludged networks
that other carriers operate, through years of cobbling together merged
companies. Likewise, Nextel's network is equally homogenized. Both
companies stand to erase that strongpoint to the detriment of all their
customers.


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Joe Gill wrote:

> I saw the story in WSJ on Thursday, and from what I saw the main points
> were:
> - Nextel is already embracing CDMA and is making the move to it.

Yes, Nextel has been "embracing" CDMA since 1999, when those rumors were
first published too. Seeing as iDEN has a lot more in common with GSM
than CDMA2000, it would be just as entertaining to see them migrate to
that as it would be merging with Sprint.


> - The combined network is seen as a formidable 'threat' to Verizon and
> Cingular

What threat? Sprint is #3. If they merge with Nextel, their ranking
gets bumped up to... well, gee, they stay at #3. What a coup, huh?

Sprint has a very important strongpoint going for it: its network is
fully homogenous and standardized, unlike the patchy kludged networks
that other carriers operate, through years of cobbling together merged
companies. Likewise, Nextel's network is equally homogenized. Both
companies stand to erase that strongpoint to the detriment of all their
customers.


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Steve Sobol wrote:
> Isaiah Beard wrote:
>
>> If two networks merge, the ONLY logical reason for such a merger would
>> be because the combined entity wants to see the two networks become one.
>
>
> Telus runs an iDen network in Canada - the only one up there - and also
> happens to run a 1900 MHz CDMA "PCS" network and markets the two
> services separately.

The Mike network is miniscule compared to that of Nextel's, and
economies of scale are different as a result. While Mike and Nextel
operate compatible networks, that's really where the similarity ends,
and it would be unwise to say that because Telus can do it, so can a
company in the US.

In the US, companies are driven primarily through the creation of
synergies and cost savings, while maintaining growth. A merger of two
separate networks takes care of the growth, but investors get very
finicky here about bloated costs. Yet that's all that continuing to
operate two separate networks would offer.

> Sure, maybe
> there would be some enhancements like (somehow) getting Sprint's CDMA
> 1xRTT push-to-talk system to talk to Nextel's SMR system. But why *not*
> run separate networks and have one big entity marketing the relative
> strengths of each network to its respective market??

Because it runs completely counter to the idea behind a merger, in which
the strengths of two companies are combined to cut costs.... in other
words, to do more with less.


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Scott Stephenson wrote:
> "Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message

>>Sprint on the other hand has a well established, technically superior
>>network in terms of capacity and data capability. It's well poised to
>>migrate to 1x EVDO and be truly a 3G network in relatively short order.
>> Yeah, CDMA doesn't do two-way very well, but it doesn't seem like most
>>of Sprint's customers really want that, and I know iDEN customers won't
>>like losing their two-way service.
>
>
> I don't see any of this as an argument against merger.

Then I guess to you, mass defections due to migration issues and
frustrations are acceptable. Good luck then.

> THEN they will have to pick either iDEN or CDMA and
>>transition everyone from the "losing" side to the new choice. And
>>regardless of what they choose, the costs involved in transitioning
>>users will seriously detract from the move to 3G, prolonging network
>>upgrades. They will be left in the dust by competing carriers who don't
>>have this baggage to worry about; even Cingular will be way ahead of the
>>game.
>
>
> The transition to CDMA would not present a problem at all- allow the iDen
> customers to remain using the Qualcomm technology and sign new customers to
> CDMA.

So what you propose is to continue operating an increasingly
unprofitable network indefinitely? Sorry, not even Nextel was willing
to do that when they went digital and forced their old SMR customers off
the analog networks.


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Absolutely!!!!!!
That's what I think too.

"Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message
news:qYtud.1090$z64.1049@fe81.usenetserver.com...
> cr wrote:
>> Hopefully Verizon will step up and make a bid.
>> From what I have read they have thought about a Sprint merger before
>
> Personally, I've had my problems with Verizon. But while I wouldn't be
> too happy on principle, I'd still be more comfortable with such a merger,
> since it would make more sense than Sprint/Nextel.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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>

On 12/10/04 9:33 AM, in article xMGdndWxNINXLiTcRVn-1w@comcast.com,
"Spectre" <Noneofyourbusiness@bye.com> wrote:

> Just remember adding two LOSERS together does not equal one WINNER! Sprint
> customer service SUCKS ass and Nextel service / equipment is horrible.

Right, and I bet you are a Verizon user. Nextel has the highest loyalty of
all the cell phone companies. Sure their customer service isn't the best,
but its not the worst and the Direct connect function is their ace in the
hole. That with Sprint's towers and 1.9 Ghz spectrum will move them into
serious contention. No one else has been able to get the DC thing right,
even the retarded "can you hear me now" company.

Nextel Customer Service sucks just as bad, if not more and their Black berry
support is just down right useless if nonexistent.

"Spectre" <Noneofyourbusiness@bye.com> wrote in message
newsMGdndWxNINXLiTcRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> Just remember adding two LOSERS together does not equal one WINNER! Sprint
> customer service SUCKS ass and Nextel service / equipment is horrible.
>
>
>
> "Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:w8mdnW8D-bj6OSTcRVn-2Q@adelphia.com...
> >
> > "Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message
> > news:5U9ud.2$Z15.1@fe32.usenetserver.com...
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Sprint and Nextel? Forget it. Nextel runs on iDEN, which is
> >> TDMA-based, and not even a cellular phone protocol. Nextel's network
is
> >> and always has been a Specialized Mobile Radio carrier masquerading as
a
> >> cellular network, and has never truly done the phone side of things
very
> >> well. And just HOW fast is Nextel's data network? Yeah, not even
close
> >> to 2.5G, let alone 3G...
> >
> > Two things to consider. The first- Nextel owns the rights to iDen/CDMA
> > bridge technology developed by Qualcomm, allowing the two platforms to
> > talk
> > to each other very easily. Second, the data network being developed by
> > Nextel is running at speeds better than most on the market, again with
> > technology that is not reliant on a single protocol.
> >
> >>
> >> Sprint on the other hand has a well established, technically superior
> >> network in terms of capacity and data capability. It's well poised to
> >> migrate to 1x EVDO and be truly a 3G network in relatively short order.
> >> Yeah, CDMA doesn't do two-way very well, but it doesn't seem like
most
> >> of Sprint's customers really want that, and I know iDEN customers won't
> >> like losing their two-way service.
> >
> > I don't see any of this as an argument against merger.
> >
> >>
> >> If two networks merge, the ONLY logical reason for such a merger would
> >> be because the combined entity wants to see the two networks become
one.
> >> You can't operate two seperate systems indefinitely and expect to see
> >> a synergy. And to merge THESE two networks will be a total nightmare.
> >> Nextel's still wrangling with a spectrum swap that isn't complete yet,
> >> and once it IS complete, any combined Sprint/Nextel entity will have to
> >> find a way to make the two spectrum bands from the two networks work
> >> well together. THEN they will have to pick either iDEN or CDMA and
> >> transition everyone from the "losing" side to the new choice. And
> >> regardless of what they choose, the costs involved in transitioning
> >> users will seriously detract from the move to 3G, prolonging network
> >> upgrades. They will be left in the dust by competing carriers who
don't
> >> have this baggage to worry about; even Cingular will be way ahead of
the
> >> game.
> >
> > The transition to CDMA would not present a problem at all- allow the
iDen
> > customers to remain using the Qualcomm technology and sign new customers
> > to
> > CDMA. The iDen network wouldn't have to go away- what's to stop a CDMA
> > phone with iDen PTT from coming to market? Or if the Nextel data
network
> > continues to show the speeds that have been reported, a CDMA phone with
> > iDen
> > PTT and data? Seperate platforms for seperate functions would be
anything
> > but a nightmare.
> >
> >>
> >> And I'll say this now; if they go with iDEN, I'm DONE with Sprint.
I've
> >> given iDEN a try many times over the past few years, and I couldn't
> >> stand it.
> >
> > I've used iDen quite a bit over the last few years, and the technology
has
> > made some very nice advances. I think you're failing to see that the
best
> > of both worlds is possible.
> >
> >>
> >> Just like the proposed merger with Worldcom several years back, this
> >> proposal STINKS if true. I seriously hope it doesn't go through.
> >>
> >> --
> >> E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
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> >>
> >
> >
>
>

"Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message
news:0huud.1104$757.359@fe32.usenetserver.com...
> Scott Stephenson wrote:
> > "Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message
>
> >>Sprint on the other hand has a well established, technically superior
> >>network in terms of capacity and data capability. It's well poised to
> >>migrate to 1x EVDO and be truly a 3G network in relatively short order.
> >> Yeah, CDMA doesn't do two-way very well, but it doesn't seem like most
> >>of Sprint's customers really want that, and I know iDEN customers won't
> >>like losing their two-way service.
> >
> >
> > I don't see any of this as an argument against merger.
>
> Then I guess to you, mass defections due to migration issues and
> frustrations are acceptable. Good luck then.

Migration happens whether there is a merger or not- spectrum swap. If
you've been reading at all, there is going to be no push for an immediate
single platform. Don't try to create issues where they don't exist.
Everybody is under the assumption that the new company will be operated with
no regard to what made Nextel profitable, and like it or not, they do
represent the business model that all of the rest hope to have.

>
> > THEN they will have to pick either iDEN or CDMA and
> >>transition everyone from the "losing" side to the new choice. And
> >>regardless of what they choose, the costs involved in transitioning
> >>users will seriously detract from the move to 3G, prolonging network
> >>upgrades. They will be left in the dust by competing carriers who don't
> >>have this baggage to worry about; even Cingular will be way ahead of the
> >>game.
> >
> >
> > The transition to CDMA would not present a problem at all- allow the
iDen
> > customers to remain using the Qualcomm technology and sign new customers
to
> > CDMA.
>
> So what you propose is to continue operating an increasingly
> unprofitable network indefinitely? Sorry, not even Nextel was willing
> to do that when they went digital and forced their old SMR customers off
> the analog networks.

I don't propose anything, and where does the term 'increasingly
unprofitable' come into play? Nextel is the most profitable and Sprint has
just recently cut losses tremendously. I don't see anybody concerned here
having a problem with profits.


>
>
> --
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>

"Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:hYudnfzwJdidaifcRVn-iA@adelphia.com...
>
> "Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message
> news:0huud.1104$757.359@fe32.usenetserver.com...
> > Scott Stephenson wrote:
> > > "Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message
> >
> > >>Sprint on the other hand has a well established, technically superior
> > >>network in terms of capacity and data capability. It's well poised to
> > >>migrate to 1x EVDO and be truly a 3G network in relatively short
order.
> > >> Yeah, CDMA doesn't do two-way very well, but it doesn't seem like
most
> > >>of Sprint's customers really want that, and I know iDEN customers
won't
> > >>like losing their two-way service.
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't see any of this as an argument against merger.
> >
> > Then I guess to you, mass defections due to migration issues and
> > frustrations are acceptable. Good luck then.
>
> Migration happens whether there is a merger or not- spectrum swap. If
> you've been reading at all, there is going to be no push for an immediate
> single platform. Don't try to create issues where they don't exist.
> Everybody is under the assumption that the new company will be operated
with
> no regard to what made Nextel profitable, and like it or not, they do
> represent the business model that all of the rest hope to have.
>
> >
> > > THEN they will have to pick either iDEN or CDMA and
> > >>transition everyone from the "losing" side to the new choice. And
> > >>regardless of what they choose, the costs involved in transitioning
> > >>users will seriously detract from the move to 3G, prolonging network
> > >>upgrades. They will be left in the dust by competing carriers who
don't
> > >>have this baggage to worry about; even Cingular will be way ahead of
the
> > >>game.
> > >
> > >
> > > The transition to CDMA would not present a problem at all- allow the
> iDen
> > > customers to remain using the Qualcomm technology and sign new
customers
> to
> > > CDMA.
> >
> > So what you propose is to continue operating an increasingly
> > unprofitable network indefinitely? Sorry, not even Nextel was willing
> > to do that when they went digital and forced their old SMR customers off
> > the analog networks.
>
> I don't propose anything, and where does the term 'increasingly
> unprofitable' come into play? Nextel is the most profitable and Sprint
has
> just recently cut losses tremendously. I don't see anybody concerned here
> having a problem with profits.

What's more, Nextel was going to have to spend a considerable sum to upgrade
their network to some sort of 3G EV-DO / EV-DV platform, so better to do it
with SPCS, so that they merge both networks into CDMA 2000.

Yes, the customers @ Nextel will have to replace their handsets when this is
done within a year or two, but what's new about that? We ALL replace our
handsets within two to three years anyway, as handsets tend to wear out and
become obsolete with current and future technology.

Bob

It will never work as the two companies have two different priorities.
Sprint goes after the very young adult that pays next to nothing per month
and is looking for free, free, free and uses a phone more as a toy. NexTel
goes after the business market where people expect to pay a little more and
usually receive it. Just look at their advertising and its all there. It is
also why Sprint consistently loses money and Nextel consistently makes
money. If you ask me it should Nextel buying Sprint and doing away with that
system all together. Just my opinion.

Rod Golding wrote:
> It will never work as the two companies have two different priorities.
> Sprint goes after the very young adult that pays next to nothing per month

According to the WSJ, they do a lot of business with large corporations too.

> and is looking for free, free, free and uses a phone more as a toy. NexTel
> goes after the business market where people expect to pay a little more and
> usually receive it. Just look at their advertising and its all there. It is
> also why Sprint consistently loses money and Nextel consistently makes
> money. If you ask me it should Nextel buying Sprint and doing away with that
> system all together. Just my opinion.

Sprint lost money in the past because of a crappy network and crappy customer
service. They've made huge improvements in both areas within the past couple
years and have actually turned a profit over the last year. They're not all the
way there, but I use Sprint and generally have no problem with CS (yes, they
have their moments, but usually they're OK), and have very good coverage where
I need it.


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PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

> > It will never work as the two companies have two different priorities.
> > Sprint goes after the very young adult that pays next to nothing per
month
>
> According to the WSJ, they do a lot of business with large corporations
too.
>
> > and is looking for free, free, free and uses a phone more as a toy.
NexTel
> > goes after the business market where people expect to pay a little more
and
> > usually receive it. Just look at their advertising and its all there. It
is
> > also why Sprint consistently loses money and Nextel consistently makes
> > money. If you ask me it should Nextel buying Sprint and doing away with
that
> > system all together. Just my opinion.

Nextel is going after young adult as well just look at www.boostmobile.com
turn speakers up and use broadband for best effect. If you are less than 30
enjoy. By the way young adults will pay any price to get the right thing.
What did you pay for your last pair of sports shoes? Boost rates at .25 peak
..15 N/W are not that cheap. The Walkie-Talkie at 1.50 per day is not bad but
you could do better with a family plan and unlimited mobile to mobile. The
key is what you friends have if Nextel and Sprint can reach critical mass
then they can charge what they want. I don't think the best product or the
cheapest will win. The Sprint/Nextel and Cingular/AT&TW is all about market
share.

"Pete Stephenson" <pete@heypete.com> wrote in message newsete-1DF6DE.22094809122004@news.isp.giganews.com...
> If Sprint and Verizon merge, then it would appear that I would be
> without a cellphone. Not Fun(tm).

Federal regulators would not allow that to happen, since it would
greatly diminish competition in the industry.

--
John Richards

Taken from www.internetnews.com

"There are some similar advantages in that Sprint PCS has tended to be more
of a consumer offer, whereas Nextel has been a very powerful business offer
because of the push-to-talk capabilities and a very extensive suite of
software applications and services," Rehbehn said.


"Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
news:cpfbfj$hlj$1@ratbert.glorb.com...
> Rod Golding wrote:
>> It will never work as the two companies have two different priorities.
>> Sprint goes after the very young adult that pays next to nothing per
>> month
>
> According to the WSJ, they do a lot of business with large corporations
> too.
>
>> and is looking for free, free, free and uses a phone more as a toy.
>> NexTel goes after the business market where people expect to pay a little
>> more and usually receive it. Just look at their advertising and its all
>> there. It is also why Sprint consistently loses money and Nextel
>> consistently makes money. If you ask me it should Nextel buying Sprint
>> and doing away with that system all together. Just my opinion.
>
> Sprint lost money in the past because of a crappy network and crappy
> customer service. They've made huge improvements in both areas within the
> past couple years and have actually turned a profit over the last year.
> They're not all the way there, but I use Sprint and generally have no
> problem with CS (yes, they have their moments, but usually they're OK),
> and have very good coverage where I need it.
>
>
> --
> JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
> Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
> sjsobol@JustThe.net
> PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
> Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

Rod Golding wrote:
> Taken from www.internetnews.com
>
> "There are some similar advantages in that Sprint PCS has tended to be more
> of a consumer offer, whereas Nextel has been a very powerful business offer
> because of the push-to-talk capabilities and a very extensive suite of
> software applications and services," Rehbehn said.
>

Right. The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

You must be a Wall Street Journal subscriber to view their content online, so
you'd have to check Google Groups - the full text of the article was posted
here in the last 24-36 hours.

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Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.