Verizon Wireless Competing Directly with Rival Nextel 8/18

FYI

Verizon Wireless Competing Directly with Rival Nextel
8/14/03 Ryan Kaplan
From the Mobile Phone Dept.

According to The Wall Street Journal
<http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1...788600,00.html>, Verizon
Wireless said it will roll out a national walkie-talkie-like service on
its cellphones beginning Monday, competing directly with the "push to
talk" product offered by rival Nextel.



http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/Web...y?newsID=11311

---

› See More: Verizon Wireless Competing Directly with Rival Nextel 8/18

Old news...I think most of us here knew it last Tuesday. Actually I
heard earlier that the phones and PTT service is active in Orlando, Fl.
today.
--
Mark KS4VT


"Liberty For ALL!" <[email protected]> wrote in article
<[email protected]>:
> FYI
>
> Verizon Wireless Competing Directly with Rival Nextel
> 8/14/03 Ryan Kaplan
> From the Mobile Phone Dept.
>
> According to The Wall Street Journal
> <http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1...788600,00.html>, Verizon
> Wireless said it will roll out a national walkie-talkie-like service on
> its cellphones beginning Monday, competing directly with the "push to
> talk" product offered by rival Nextel.
>
>
>
> http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/Web...y?newsID=11311
>

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

They're not competing. Did you see their price plans? Way too high.


"Liberty For ALL!" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> FYI
>
> Verizon Wireless Competing Directly with Rival Nextel
> 8/14/03 Ryan Kaplan
> From the Mobile Phone Dept.
>
> According to The Wall Street Journal
> <http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1...788600,00.html>, Verizon
> Wireless said it will roll out a national walkie-talkie-like service on
> its cellphones beginning Monday, competing directly with the "push to
> talk" product offered by rival Nextel.
>
>
>
>
http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/Web...y?newsID=11311
>

"Liberty For ALL!" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:[email protected]...
> FYI
>=20
> Verizon Wireless Competing Directly with Rival Nextel
> 8/14/03 Ryan Kaplan
> From the Mobile Phone Dept.
>=20
> According to The Wall Street Journal, Verizon=20
> Wireless said it will roll out a national walkie-talkie-like service =
on=20
> its cellphones beginning Monday, competing directly with the "push to=20
> talk" product offered by rival Nextel.

Thank God we have the Wall Street Journal to enlighten us on such secret =
information.

And I'm sure Nextel will roll-out an even better competitive plan within the
next two weeks, now that VZW has finally launched.

AL

"Ben Skversky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> They're not competing. Did you see their price plans? Way too high.

I really hope Nextel does. I've been looking forward to Verizon's PTT
so we can benefit by getting better Nextel plans.

Here is a professional comparison (and not mine) between NEXTEL &
Verizon. Looks like NEXTEL wins in the performance area and in phone
book updating:

Event
RBC Performance Comparison of VZ and NXTL Push-to-Talk Services

Investment Opinion

We recently conducted side-by-side performance comparisons of VZ' and
NXTL's push-to-talk (PTT) walkie-talkie services, comparing each
product on the basis of set-up latency, intra-call latency, keypad
usability, and other factors (e.g., list management, idle time,
presence, pricing).

Our initial takeaways based on current product performance are:

1) VZ' PTT service could be a valuable supplementary product to grow
ARPU and drive penetration, though not as much at NXTL's expense as we
previously believed.

2) With anticipated PTT launches by PCS and AT, we believe GSM
providers may be at a temporary time-to-market disadvantage by not
offering walkie-talkie services until well into next year.

3) Greater-than-anticipated intra-call latency of VZ' PTT product
(versus essentially none at NXTL) causes us to be incrementally more
positive on NXTL's competitive positioning. We recently conducted
side-by-side performance comparisons of Verizon's (NYSE: VZ;

Outperform; $36.01; Average Risk) and Nextel's (Nasdaq: NXTL;
Underperform; $17.93; Speculative Risk) push-to-talk (PTT)
walkie-talkie services, comparing each product on the basis of set-up
latency, intra-call latency, keypad usability, and other factors
(e.g., list management, idle time, presence, "floor control" and
overall pricing). Our latency and usability comparisons were measured
by using the PTT alert feature to establish the connection and then
conducting back-and-forth PTT conversations.

Based on how the VZ PTT product currently performs, we believe PTT can
be a valuable supplementary service to potentially grow VZ' ARPU and
increase penetration, though not as much at Nextel's expense as much
as we previously thought as we believe most NXTL users would note a
perceptible difference in intra-call latency. We found other
performance factors either roughly comparable (e.g., keypad usability)
or relatively less meaningful (e.g., set-up latency). Below are our
initial comparisons of the two systems.

Intra-Call Latencies . Our most surprising and significant finding was
that VZ' product exhibits two different types of intra-call latency
that are essentially absent from NXTL's PTT product. Specifically,
during a typical VZ PTT session, we consistently measured up to 1.5
seconds of talk-permit latency (versus usually zero for NXTL) coupled
with an ensuing media latency of up to 1.5 seconds (versus essentially
zero for NXTL). Talk-permit latency is the delay between the time the
PTT button is pressed and the user can start talking, and media
latency is the delay between the time the sender starts talking and
the recipient hears the sender's voice. We measured varying
talk-permit latencies for NXTL, with essentially zero latency during
an active PTT session but occasionally a 0.7-second latency after a
six-second or greater pause had occurred in the conversation.


Set-Up Latency. As expected, we encountered greater set-up latency
with VZ' product. We measured VZ' set-up latency at 5-6 seconds,
versus 0.5-1.5 seconds with NXTL. Since set-up occurs only once during
a given PTT session, we do not believe this latency is as significant
for most users as the intra-call latency.

Keypad Usability . For both VZ and NXTL, we ascertained the minimum
number of key presses required to establish a PTT alert to another
user as well as the number of different navigation keys a user would
have to press. We found both VZ and NXTL easy to use, with VZ offering
a very slight advantage on both metrics (three key presses required
for initiate a PTT alert, versus four for NXTL; and using two
different keys versus four for NXTL), provided the user employs the
PTT buddy list to set up the alert. If the VZ user has to rely on the
phonebook feature rather than the PTT buddy list, this increases the
complexity of establishing a PTT alert (seven key presses are required
using five separate keys) and the comparison shifts markedly in favor
of NXTL.

Idle Time . We measured how long each network maintained a PTT session
if both participants were inactive i.e., did not press the PTT button,
causing the conversation to idle. This comparison favored NXTL, on
whose system we measured 60-65 seconds, versus 20-25 seconds for
Verizon. We are not certain whether this parameter is a function of
the network, the handset, or a combination.

List Management . We found each service has its pro's and con's and
therefore view the comparison as a toss-up. While VZ provides the
capability to manage the PTT buddy list via a Web interface (in fact,
it is required), NXTL has a superior handset interface, in our view. A
disadvantage we found with VZ' interface is that there is no apparent
way to manage the PTT buddy list via the phonebook feature on the
handset, even though users can manage a list of cellular users with
this option. As the primary disadvantage of NXTL's interface we note
that the management of group lists must typically be done by calling
customer care.

Talk vs. Listen Mode: Unique to VZ, the handset screen provides a
visual cue as to whether the user is in talk vs. listen mode. This
way, it is possible to know whether to press the PTT button or to wait
until the other user has finished. We view this as one way to
compensate for the potential confusion about "floor control" that can
arise as a result of VZ' greater latency, and do not view this feature
as necessary for NXTL since its PTT sessions are snappier and lend
themselves, in our view, to less confusion over who is in speak vs.
listen mode.

Presence : Also unique to VZ, the PTT buddy list depicts which users
on the list are active vs. inactive, similar to instant messenger
lists. We know of no such comparable feature with NXTL's service other
than to initiate an alert and wait for the "alert successful" message
or reject tone.

Other Topics:

VZ' Pricing Represents a Premium to NXTL for Small Cellular Buckets
and Discount to NXTL at Large Cellular Buckets.
Comparing VZ' and NXTL's PTT rate plans is difficult on an
apples-to-apples basis as no single rate plan of one carrier includes
the same bundle as that of the other carrier. Nevertheless, we can
approximate the VZ add-on bundle of 1,000 mobile-to-mobile minutes,
unlimited nights and weekends, and unlimited nationwide PTT by noting
that Nextel's Free Incoming plans are offered with an optional $10
add-on that provides unlimited nights and weekends as well as
unlimited nationwide Direct Connect and assuming that 25-40% of total
minutes are incoming. Our conclusion based on current rate plans is
that at monthly access fees of $100 or less, NXTL's service provides
better value, whereas at greater-than-$100 access fees, the balance
begins to shift toward the Verizon offer (the smaller the assumed mix
of incoming minutes, the lower the access cost at which the comparison
shifts in favor of Verizon). Thus, we believe that VZ' PTT offer may
be relatively more appealing to high-ARPU, high-cellular-minute users.
Since this is often typified by white-collar professionals, VZ'
segmentation appears consistent with its initial rollout of a
flip-phone rather than a ruggedized open-face handset.

Impact on NXTL. We believe the perceptible difference in intra-call
latency of the VZ PTT product would represent a switching barrier to
many existing NXTL customers who value the walkie-talkie service. In
addition, for new users who are primarily interested in push-to-talk
and who have an opportunity to trial both systems, we believe NXTL
will have a competitive edge. While we think Verizon clearly has a
usable product that can drive ARPU and penetration, we are
incrementally more positive on NXTL competitive differentiation.

Thoughts for GSM Carriers. We believe GSM carriers could be at a
temporary time-to-market disadvantage as we expect PCS and AT to
launch PTT within the next few months and understand that AWE and
others are further away from launching a comparable service.


--
Mark KS4VT


[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

In article <DoV%[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> "Liberty For ALL!" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > FYI
> >
> > Verizon Wireless Competing Directly with Rival Nextel
> > 8/14/03 Ryan Kaplan
> > From the Mobile Phone Dept.
> >
> > According to The Wall Street Journal, Verizon
> > Wireless said it will roll out a national walkie-talkie-like service on
> > its cellphones beginning Monday, competing directly with the "push to
> > talk" product offered by rival Nextel.
>
> Thank God we have the Wall Street Journal to enlighten us on such secret information.
>
HAHA. After reading the article though, I think all the anti-Nextel
fanboys telling us are phones now suck are in for a shock. So Verizon's
PTT seems more like a speed dial cell call than anything else

For all you that think walkie-talkie-like service from Verizon or any
other company, will be better than Nextel,I have some key difference
that might make you think twice.
1st with Verizons PTT will not be direct connect style.
Meaning when you push the button to talk there will be a delay in the
connection.
2nd, on Nextel if the other user is not avaiable you will get a kick
back notification telling you the user is unavailable or busy in another
mode. With these other companys, you can hit the button and talk
thinking the other person is on the other end hearing you, even when
they are not. So you might end up sitting there telling your whole story
en-curing air time and the whole time the other person was never hearing
you.
3rd, the other are not going to have national PTT service.
Nextel has been doing this for a while now and have figured out and
fixed a lot of the bugs. Where these other company are just starting, so
remember how Nextel service sucked when they first started, well that
how these other company will be, but while there trying to fix their
poor service problems, nextel will only be improving their service even
more. Longer story short, these other company will always be a few DOZEN
steps behide what Nextel has already figured out how to do. Nextel feels
so stingily about this, that when i asked them if they were going to
lower their monthly charges to compete with these other company, they
said No because these are companys PTT will not even compare to Nextels
PTT

I admit when Nextel first came out getting through on PTT was a hit and
miss thing, and it was pain to get it to work
but now its pretty much always working with no problems
I dont know about other but i dont want to go through that head ache
again!!


noname <[email protected]> wrote in article
<[email protected]>:
> In article <DoV%[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > "Liberty For ALL!" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > FYI
> > >
> > > Verizon Wireless Competing Directly with Rival Nextel
> > > 8/14/03 Ryan Kaplan
> > > From the Mobile Phone Dept.
> > >
> > > According to The Wall Street Journal, Verizon
> > > Wireless said it will roll out a national walkie-talkie-like service on
> > > its cellphones beginning Monday, competing directly with the "push to
> > > talk" product offered by rival Nextel.
> >
> > Thank God we have the Wall Street Journal to enlighten us on such secret information.
> >
> HAHA. After reading the article though, I think all the anti-Nextel
> fanboys telling us are phones now suck are in for a shock. So Verizon's
> PTT seems more like a speed dial cell call than anything else

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

Wanted to refute some of the points:

1) With VZW PTT, the user that attempts to get ahold of a user that is
in the middle of a call or ptt session will receive notification that
the second user is unavailable. So you won't be incurring any minute
charges thinking you're talking to someone when you're not.

2) VZW's PTT is nationwide already, and covers more POPs than Nextel
does. Nor do they charge any extra for nationwide PTT, while Nextel
does. In addition through the seemless integration with Alltel as well
as other rural carriers, a VZW user will have a much broader area in
which they may make a phone call even if they are out of PTT range,
which is not possible with Nextel because they are a digital only,
proprietary technology, non-analog capable carrier.

Just wanted to set the record straight...

--
Verizon customer/ formerly Cingular user/ formerly Sprint PCS user


[email protected] (Albe Brr) wrote in article
<[email protected]>:
> For all you that think walkie-talkie-like service from Verizon or any
> other company, will be better than Nextel,I have some key difference
> that might make you think twice.
> 1st with Verizons PTT will not be direct connect style.
> Meaning when you push the button to talk there will be a delay in the
> connection.
> 2nd, on Nextel if the other user is not avaiable you will get a kick
> back notification telling you the user is unavailable or busy in another
> mode. With these other companys, you can hit the button and talk
> thinking the other person is on the other end hearing you, even when
> they are not. So you might end up sitting there telling your whole story
> en-curing air time and the whole time the other person was never hearing
> you.
> 3rd, the other are not going to have national PTT service.
> Nextel has been doing this for a while now and have figured out and
> fixed a lot of the bugs. Where these other company are just starting, so
> remember how Nextel service sucked when they first started, well that
> how these other company will be, but while there trying to fix their
> poor service problems, nextel will only be improving their service even
> more. Longer story short, these other company will always be a few DOZEN
> steps behide what Nextel has already figured out how to do. Nextel feels
> so stingily about this, that when i asked them if they were going to
> lower their monthly charges to compete with these other company, they
> said No because these are companys PTT will not even compare to Nextels
> PTT
>
> I admit when Nextel first came out getting through on PTT was a hit and
> miss thing, and it was pain to get it to work
> but now its pretty much always working with no problems
> I dont know about other but i dont want to go through that head ache
> again!!
>
>
> noname <[email protected]> wrote in article
> <[email protected]>:
> > In article <DoV%[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> > > "Liberty For ALL!" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > > FYI
> > > >
> > > > Verizon Wireless Competing Directly with Rival Nextel
> > > > 8/14/03 Ryan Kaplan
> > > > From the Mobile Phone Dept.
> > > >
> > > > According to The Wall Street Journal, Verizon
> > > > Wireless said it will roll out a national walkie-talkie-like service on
> > > > its cellphones beginning Monday, competing directly with the "push to
> > > > talk" product offered by rival Nextel.
> > >
> > > Thank God we have the Wall Street Journal to enlighten us on such secret information.
> > >
> > HAHA. After reading the article though, I think all the anti-Nextel
> > fanboys telling us are phones now suck are in for a shock. So Verizon's
> > PTT seems more like a speed dial cell call than anything else
>
> [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

VZW's PTT plans seem to be pretty expensive. For $59.99 they only give 400
cellular minutes. I'm getting 1000 cell minutes with Nextel for $57.99,
unlimited PTT & unlimited nights & weekends.


"P Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Wanted to refute some of the points:
>
> 1) With VZW PTT, the user that attempts to get ahold of a user that is
> in the middle of a call or ptt session will receive notification that
> the second user is unavailable. So you won't be incurring any minute
> charges thinking you're talking to someone when you're not.
>
> 2) VZW's PTT is nationwide already, and covers more POPs than Nextel
> does. Nor do they charge any extra for nationwide PTT, while Nextel
> does. In addition through the seemless integration with Alltel as well
> as other rural carriers, a VZW user will have a much broader area in
> which they may make a phone call even if they are out of PTT range,
> which is not possible with Nextel because they are a digital only,
> proprietary technology, non-analog capable carrier.
>
> Just wanted to set the record straight...
>
> --
> Verizon customer/ formerly Cingular user/ formerly Sprint PCS user
>
>
> [email protected] (Albe Brr) wrote in article
> <[email protected]>:
> > For all you that think walkie-talkie-like service from Verizon or any
> > other company, will be better than Nextel,I have some key difference
> > that might make you think twice.
> > 1st with Verizons PTT will not be direct connect style.
> > Meaning when you push the button to talk there will be a delay in the
> > connection.
> > 2nd, on Nextel if the other user is not avaiable you will get a kick
> > back notification telling you the user is unavailable or busy in another
> > mode. With these other companys, you can hit the button and talk
> > thinking the other person is on the other end hearing you, even when
> > they are not. So you might end up sitting there telling your whole story
> > en-curing air time and the whole time the other person was never hearing
> > you.
> > 3rd, the other are not going to have national PTT service.
> > Nextel has been doing this for a while now and have figured out and
> > fixed a lot of the bugs. Where these other company are just starting, so
> > remember how Nextel service sucked when they first started, well that
> > how these other company will be, but while there trying to fix their
> > poor service problems, nextel will only be improving their service even
> > more. Longer story short, these other company will always be a few DOZEN
> > steps behide what Nextel has already figured out how to do. Nextel feels
> > so stingily about this, that when i asked them if they were going to
> > lower their monthly charges to compete with these other company, they
> > said No because these are companys PTT will not even compare to Nextels
> > PTT
> >
> > I admit when Nextel first came out getting through on PTT was a hit and
> > miss thing, and it was pain to get it to work
> > but now its pretty much always working with no problems
> > I dont know about other but i dont want to go through that head ache
> > again!!
> >
> >
> > noname <[email protected]> wrote in article
> > <[email protected]>:
> > > In article <DoV%[email protected]>,
> > > [email protected] says...
> > > > "Liberty For ALL!" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > > > > FYI
> > > > >
> > > > > Verizon Wireless Competing Directly with Rival Nextel
> > > > > 8/14/03 Ryan Kaplan
> > > > > From the Mobile Phone Dept.
> > > > >
> > > > > According to The Wall Street Journal, Verizon
> > > > > Wireless said it will roll out a national walkie-talkie-like
service on
> > > > > its cellphones beginning Monday, competing directly with the "push
to
> > > > > talk" product offered by rival Nextel.
> > > >
> > > > Thank God we have the Wall Street Journal to enlighten us on such
secret information.
> > > >
> > > HAHA. After reading the article though, I think all the anti-Nextel
> > > fanboys telling us are phones now suck are in for a shock. So
Verizon's
> > > PTT seems more like a speed dial cell call than anything else
> >
> > [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]
>
> [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> Wanted to refute some of the points:
>
> 1) With VZW PTT, the user that attempts to get ahold of a user that is
> in the middle of a call or ptt session will receive notification that
> the second user is unavailable. So you won't be incurring any minute
> charges thinking you're talking to someone when you're not.
>
> 2) VZW's PTT is nationwide already, and covers more POPs than Nextel
> does. Nor do they charge any extra for nationwide PTT, while Nextel
> does. In addition through the seemless integration with Alltel as well
> as other rural carriers, a VZW user will have a much broader area in
> which they may make a phone call even if they are out of PTT range,
> which is not possible with Nextel because they are a digital only,
> proprietary technology, non-analog capable carrier.
>
> Just wanted to set the record straight...
>
>

But you didn't refute the fact that VZW PTT uses the same cellular
network for calls for PTT and the fact that it's more expensive.

Also, how does VZW bill PTT? In :06 increments or in 1:00 increments?

You are correct... VZW uses the same spectrum for its data, voice, and
PTT network. That said, CDMA 1xrtt is a much more efficient
transmission technology than iDEN and each tower can hold more calls per
channel than iDEN. Even while using a more efficient spread spectrum
technology that can hold tenfold the amount of traffic, with the new
Northcoast PCS spectrum purchase, VZW has announced that they're sitting
pretty for spectrum and capacity for at least the next 3-5 years in all
of its markets. This being the case, VZW has never attempted to be a
cheaper alternative. They have always marketed themselves as a higher
value alternative to the other wireless carriers. Some of the more
recent industry publications have noticed the flood of people signing up
for VZW service (they have added three to four times the amount of net
customer additions in the past 3 quarters as any competitor) and have
speculated that people are willing to pay more for the perceived higher
network quality and better customer service... no need to argue here,
I'm only saying perceived because studies show that VZW is perceived by
the public as having the best customer service and by far the best
network. That said, I would mostly agree with that sentiment. In
addition, it doesn't matter how they bill PTT calls because at least for
now, their plans include UNLIMITED PTT usage so...

--
Verizon customer/ formerly Cingular user/ formerly Sprint PCS user


noname <[email protected]> wrote in article
<[email protected]>:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
> > Wanted to refute some of the points:
> >
> > 1) With VZW PTT, the user that attempts to get ahold of a user that is
> > in the middle of a call or ptt session will receive notification that
> > the second user is unavailable. So you won't be incurring any minute
> > charges thinking you're talking to someone when you're not.
> >
> > 2) VZW's PTT is nationwide already, and covers more POPs than Nextel
> > does. Nor do they charge any extra for nationwide PTT, while Nextel
> > does. In addition through the seemless integration with Alltel as well
> > as other rural carriers, a VZW user will have a much broader area in
> > which they may make a phone call even if they are out of PTT range,
> > which is not possible with Nextel because they are a digital only,
> > proprietary technology, non-analog capable carrier.
> >
> > Just wanted to set the record straight...
> >
> >
>
> But you didn't refute the fact that VZW PTT uses the same cellular
> network for calls for PTT and the fact that it's more expensive.
>
> Also, how does VZW bill PTT? In :06 increments or in 1:00 increments?

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]