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  1. #31
    Laurence Payne
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?

    On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:24:08 -0000, "Mr C" <total_incognito> wrote:

    >I've got an even better question: what's the best way of capturing the
    >appalling general midi sounds onto a track as a .wav? Easy with VST
    >instruments and keyboard internal sounds but difficult with GM sounds.
    >Beating that, why would anyone want to record GM sounds?



    There are half-way-decent GM soundsets. But I guess you're talking
    about the ones built into Windows - the Microsoft Synth?

    If you can hear it, you can record it. If you've got nothing better
    to hand, Windows Sound Recorder will do it.

    CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
    "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect



    See More: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?




  2. #32
    Jim Johnson
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?

    > think you will find sound is sound, if you have sound stored in one format
    > it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on how
    > good the conversion program is.


    When you say that, it's clear that youy have absoluetly no idea what you're
    talking about.

    ..wav, .au, .aif files ARE sound flies. MIDI files are not; they are
    instructions for musical isntruments.

    It will never be possible to convert arbitrary audio files to MIDI files.

    --
    Jim Johnson



  3. #33
    Fred P
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?

    I hesitated to get involved in this turkey that pops up every now and
    again!!! but here goes.
    A midi file does not "contain" any sound what so ever. It is just like a
    pianola punched tape. When put into a pianola and one pedals it plays the
    piano - badly! A wav file does contain sound it is a digital wave file that
    is technically an 'analog' of the original sound. It contains all the
    information that the original microphones picked up, the acoustics etc.

    Wav to Midi converters should be called Wav to Midi Transcribers - they work
    if one instrument is involved and each note is played separately - no
    overlaps. Even then all they do is transcribe the note, the duration.
    Absolutely nothing about acoustics or the original instrument timbre etc.

    To get an idea of the complexity of trying just to decode say a recording of
    a Symphony orchestra with 110 instruments - all those sum and difference
    frequencies, all those harmonics generated and reflected even the computer
    in the restaurant at the end of the universe would have difficulty!!

    The final crunch comes when you try to do even a very simple 2 instrument
    'conversion' of 2 flutes one playing the melody (tune) and the other an
    obligato (harmony).... both these terms are human descriptive terms and
    there ain't any mathematical laws to define them - ie Robby the computer
    burns out...

    Fred


    "half_pint" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "michael turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news[email protected]...
    > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:29:08 +0000, half_pint wrote:
    > >
    > > >
    > > > "Mario" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into

    ..mid
    > ?
    > > >>
    > > >> Thanks,
    > > >>
    > > >> Mario
    > > >
    > > > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,

    > >
    > > Very differently. WAV, AIFF, etc. are sound sample files. MIDI is a
    > > musical description file/protocol which does not carry samples. That's
    > > done with the MIDI playing application/hardware.
    > >
    > > > i'm not sure what the other two guys are on about.
    > > >
    > > > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/

    > >
    > > Yup that's a simple *single* instrument piano piece. Try it with

    something
    > > more complex, especially if it's got vocals. See also Room102's 'S-Club

    7'
    > > comment in this thread.

    >
    > I think you will find sound is sound, if you have sound stored in one

    format
    > it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on how
    > good the conversion program is.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Michael Turner
    > > Email (ROT13)
    > > [email protected]

    >
    >






  4. #34
    emil SonarScope
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?

    Wav to midi conversion software - Solo Explorer
    http://www.recognisoft.com/

    if you have wave containing just solo



    http://www.anahata.co.uk/music/sonar...P_E/produkcija










  5. #35
    half_pint
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?


    "Fred P" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I hesitated to get involved in this turkey that pops up every now and
    > again!!! but here goes.
    > A midi file does not "contain" any sound what so ever. It is just like a
    > pianola punched tape. When put into a pianola and one pedals it plays the
    > piano - badly! A wav file does contain sound it is a digital wave file

    that
    > is technically an 'analog' of the original sound. It contains all the
    > information that the original microphones picked up, the acoustics etc.


    It contains a string of binary data, 1 and zeros just like a midi file.

    >
    > Wav to Midi converters should be called Wav to Midi Transcribers - they

    work
    > if one instrument is involved and each note is played separately - no
    > overlaps. Even then all they do is transcribe the note, the duration.
    > Absolutely nothing about acoustics or the original instrument timbre etc.
    >
    > To get an idea of the complexity of trying just to decode say a recording

    of
    > a Symphony orchestra with 110 instruments - all those sum and difference
    > frequencies, all those harmonics generated and reflected even the computer
    > in the restaurant at the end of the universe would have difficulty!!


    I suppose it would lose to Kasparof at chess to because chess is 'too
    complex'
    for a dumb computer?

    >
    > The final crunch comes when you try to do even a very simple 2 instrument
    > 'conversion' of 2 flutes one playing the melody (tune) and the other an
    > obligato (harmony).... both these terms are human descriptive terms and
    > there ain't any mathematical laws to define them - ie Robby the computer
    > burns out...


    I don't really know much about musical terms, I doubt they mean much to a
    computer.
    I am actually not entirely sure that the 'scope of a MIDI' is either but I
    don't think
    it really matters.
    A computer would probably be more interested in the Fourier? transform of
    the sound.

    Actually the computer might play all the wrong instruments in the wrong
    places yet
    still reproduce the same sound!!

    >
    > Fred
    >
    >
    > "half_pint" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "michael turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news[email protected]...
    > > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:29:08 +0000, half_pint wrote:
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > "Mario" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > >> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into

    > .mid
    > > ?
    > > > >>
    > > > >> Thanks,
    > > > >>
    > > > >> Mario
    > > > >
    > > > > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
    > > >
    > > > Very differently. WAV, AIFF, etc. are sound sample files. MIDI is a
    > > > musical description file/protocol which does not carry samples. That's
    > > > done with the MIDI playing application/hardware.
    > > >
    > > > > i'm not sure what the other two guys are on about.
    > > > >
    > > > > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
    > > >
    > > > Yup that's a simple *single* instrument piano piece. Try it with

    > something
    > > > more complex, especially if it's got vocals. See also Room102's

    'S-Club
    > 7'
    > > > comment in this thread.

    > >
    > > I think you will find sound is sound, if you have sound stored in one

    > format
    > > it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on

    how
    > > good the conversion program is.
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Michael Turner
    > > > Email (ROT13)
    > > > [email protected]

    > >
    > >

    >
    >






  6. #36
    half_pint
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?



    "michael turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:16:49 +0000, Laurence Payne wrote:
    >
    > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:38:50 -0000, "half_pint"
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >>> A MIDI file doesnt create sound, it only contains information telling

    a
    > >>> sound device i.e. your soundcard what sounds to play and when.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>Obviously when it is processed my the relevant decoder equipment
    > >>ithe sound is created, without being too pedantic about it.

    > >
    > >
    > > I'm not sure you WANT to learn! But just in case :-)
    > >
    > > Sound files - aiff, wav, MP3 etc contain the data necessary to
    > > reconstruct the actual sound. Like a tape recording (which is no good
    > > until "decoded" by the tape head).
    > >
    > > A midi file is MUCH smaller. It contains instructions to a
    > > synthesiser or sample player to play certain notes, using certain
    > > sounds. The sounds used are created by the synth, and, unless the
    > > equipment is identical, will sound different when played on different
    > > systems.



    *All* music on played on different hardware (speakers etc.) sounds
    different.

    >
    > Just to add to this, MIDI actually has more in common with *sheet*
    > *music*, than it does WAV, AIFF, etc. In the fact that they're both a
    > musical description language/protocol, and do NOT contain samples.


    At the end of the day they both contain a code for moving the diaphram
    on a speaker essentially.


    >
    > > There is a General Midi specification, that specifies that when Program
    > > 0 is specified a Piano sound will be played, Program 56, a trumpet etc.
    > > etc. But what a particular system produces as "Trumpet" is up for
    > > grabs.


    All music files contain a code for playing music, all codes can be
    decoded and translated into a different format.

    No too sounds are ever *idential* anyway.

    > >
    > > CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
    > > "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

    >
    > Yup you know what you're talking about.


    Yes I do, and I know *exactly* what I am talking about.

    >
    > --
    > Michael Turner
    > Email (ROT13)
    > [email protected]






  7. #37
    Laurence Payne
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?

    On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:13:13 -0800, [email protected] (Jim Johnson)
    wrote:

    >.wav, .au, .aif files ARE sound flies. MIDI files are not; they are
    >instructions for musical isntruments.


    Correct
    >
    >It will never be possible to convert arbitrary audio files to MIDI files.

    Maybe. Computers are very good at data analysis. I believe work is
    being done on systems that try to pick out one voice from a crowd. If
    this is perfected, we'd be a long way towards picking instruments out
    from a mix - "unbaking the cake" as it's sometimes put.

    We're not there yet. But people who say "It will never be done" have
    almost always been proved wrong :-)

    CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
    "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect



  8. #38
    Laurence Payne
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?

    On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:14:13 +1100, "Fred P"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >The final crunch comes when you try to do even a very simple 2 instrument
    >'conversion' of 2 flutes one playing the melody (tune) and the other an
    >obligato (harmony).... both these terms are human descriptive terms and
    >there ain't any mathematical laws to define them - ie Robby the computer
    >burns out...


    Actually, transcribing a flute duet is about where the technology
    stands at present.

    CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
    "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect



  9. #39
    Laurence Payne
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?

    On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:04:21 -0000, "half_pint"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Just to add to this, MIDI actually has more in common with *sheet*
    >> *music*, than it does WAV, AIFF, etc. In the fact that they're both a
    >> musical description language/protocol, and do NOT contain samples.

    >
    >At the end of the day they both contain a code for moving the diaphram
    >on a speaker essentially.
    >

    OK. One more try.:-)

    NO THEY DON'T. Audio files do. Midi files don't. MIDI is not
    an audio file format. It's a set of instruction to a synthesiser to
    play its own sounds.
    >
    >>
    >> > There is a General Midi specification, that specifies that when Program
    >> > 0 is specified a Piano sound will be played, Program 56, a trumpet etc.
    >> > etc. But what a particular system produces as "Trumpet" is up for
    >> > grabs.

    >
    >All music files contain a code for playing music, all codes can be
    >decoded and translated into a different format.


    Yes, if they're music files. Midi isn't.

    CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
    "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect



  10. #40
    half_pint
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?


    "Laurence Payne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:04:21 -0000, "half_pint"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >> Just to add to this, MIDI actually has more in common with *sheet*
    > >> *music*, than it does WAV, AIFF, etc. In the fact that they're both a
    > >> musical description language/protocol, and do NOT contain samples.

    > >
    > >At the end of the day they both contain a code for moving the diaphram
    > >on a speaker essentially.
    > >

    > OK. One more try.:-)
    >
    > NO THEY DON'T. Audio files do. Midi files don't. MIDI is not
    > an audio file format. It's a set of instruction to a synthesiser to
    > play its own sounds.


    OK one more try :-)
    How do synthesisers play their sound?
    Answer via a speaker.
    Has the penny dropped?


    > >
    > >>
    > >> > There is a General Midi specification, that specifies that when

    Program
    > >> > 0 is specified a Piano sound will be played, Program 56, a trumpet

    etc.
    > >> > etc. But what a particular system produces as "Trumpet" is up for
    > >> > grabs.

    > >
    > >All music files contain a code for playing music, all codes can be
    > >decoded and translated into a different format.

    >
    > Yes, if they're music files. Midi isn't.


    Neither is a music file, both are data files.
    Computer files contain data 1's and 0's.
    Sound is the vibration of molecules, the molecules of a computer file
    containing data may vibrate may vibrate but I doubt you can hear them
    (I think you will find that probably the computers fan you can hear).

    It would me more accurate to say the files are a data pattern and exist
    more as a 'concept' rathan a physical reality.

    >
    > CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
    > "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect






  11. #41
    half_pint
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?


    "Laurence Payne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:35:40 -0000, "half_pint"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >And .wav and mp3 are not sound either, they are converted into sound by
    > >decoding, just like the midi file will be.
    > >
    > >A .wav file doesn't make a noise by it self ( as far as I am aware).

    >
    > You're flogging a dead one here, half_pint, my old mate :-) Give in
    > gracefully before you make a fool of yourself.


    There is only one fool pressing the keys on your keyboard and it ain't me
    :-)



    >
    >
    > CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
    > "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect






  12. #42
    half_pint
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?




    "Lil' Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:3CGYb.1043$oj2.919@lakeread03...
    > Try "Amazing Grace" bagpipe version in wav format to mid. A Google search
    > will find the music. You have the converter. Should be interesting, Mr.
    > Right was it?
    > Dave


    I am not bothered by actually doing it, all I am say is (give peace a
    chance?)
    tha itt could be done.

    Oh and how do you know it was bagpipes?
    If you could tell it was bagpipes then so could my computer.
    You mmight think you are smarter but try playing my computer at chess
    and see how far you get.
    (8 million positions analysed.....)


    --
    ---------------
    regards half_pint


    > "half_pint" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Lil' Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:_ewYb.788$oj2.700@lakeread03...
    > > > First hit on google "wav to mid":
    > > > http://www.intelliscore.net/
    > > > Dave

    > >
    > > Hmmm well pretty much as I said, I guess I am right after all, as usual

    > ;O)
    > >
    > > --
    > > ---------------
    > > regards half_pint
    > >
    > > > "Mario" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into

    ..mid
    > ?
    > > > >
    > > > > Thanks,
    > > > >
    > > > > Mario
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >






  13. #43
    half_pint
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?



    "Hugh Candlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:u##[email protected]...
    >
    > Laurence Payne <[email protected]> wrote in message

    news:[email protected]...
    > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:11:11 -0000, "half_pint"
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > >> It's been done, but only for very simple sounds.
    > > >>
    > > >Well it sounds perfectly possible to me, it just requires a bit of

    'nouse'.
    > >
    > > OK. Try. There are demo versions of some of the programs that
    > > pretend to do this. Take a soundfile of something more complex than
    > > a single instrument playing something simple, convert to midi and post
    > > your result.

    >
    > Or, take a soundfile of a single instrument playing something simple.
    > The drums? Perfect. What could be simpler than the drums?
    >
    > Rat-a-tat-tat. For those who aren't into music,
    > there isn't a piece of software in the world that can do it.


    How would you know?

    >
    > All of the people who have stated that it cannot be done are correct.
    > "It" , of course, refers to the whole shebang. The total enchilada.
    >
    > A couple of notes correct here and there does not constitute
    > a successful conversion.
    >
    > IT is simple. IT cannot be done. IT is that simple.


    It can be done, granted you couldn't do it.....but I could :O)
    >
    >






  14. #44
    Mr C
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?

    I'm sorry mate, but you really are a half-pint. The links you think are
    supporting you are actually just repeating that wav-midi is essentially
    worthless. I've tried the freeware stuff and I get a muddle of midi notes
    that sounds like a two year-old banging the piano. Midi isn't a sound file,
    I'll quote from www.computermusic.co.uk :

    "This is something many people don't fully understand when first confronting
    MIDI Song Files, for example. They assume that what's on a MIDI Song File
    disc is a recording of the actual song itself. It isn't. A MIDI Song File is
    simply a long string of MIDI data which instructs one or more instruments to
    reproduce the song according to the way the person that originally wrote (or
    played) it, intended."

    Which means....

    "It's important to remember that MIDI data is not sound data. If you were to
    somehow connect a MIDI cable to the input of an amplifier (don't!), you'd
    hear a harsh buzzing (loud enough to threaten your speaker cones). This is
    the sound of digital data being transmitted down the cable. It may contain
    vital information about how a piece of music should be played - what notes,
    what pitch, what duration, what volume, etc - but it is not the sound of the
    music itself."

    I like to think people learn in this place, surely that's the point of a
    newsgroup. Here's the lesson:
    http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/midi/midi.asp so now learn or stop
    being provacative.



    "half_pint" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Lil' Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:_ewYb.788$oj2.700@lakeread03...
    > > First hit on google "wav to mid":
    > > http://www.intelliscore.net/
    > > Dave

    >
    > Hmmm well pretty much as I said, I guess I am right after all, as usual

    ;O)
    >
    > --
    > ---------------
    > regards half_pint
    >
    > > "Mario" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid

    ?
    > > >
    > > > Thanks,
    > > >
    > > > Mario

    > >
    > >

    >
    >






  15. #45
    michael turner
    Guest

    Re: how to convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid ?

    On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:00:01 +0000, Laurence Payne wrote:

    > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:04:21 -0000, "half_pint"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>> Just to add to this, MIDI actually has more in common with *sheet*
    >>> *music*, than it does WAV, AIFF, etc. In the fact that they're both a
    >>> musical description language/protocol, and do NOT contain samples.

    >>
    >>At the end of the day they both contain a code for moving the diaphram
    >>on a speaker essentially.
    >>

    > OK. One more try.:-)
    >
    > NO THEY DON'T. Audio files do. Midi files don't. MIDI is not
    > an audio file format. It's a set of instruction to a synthesiser to
    > play its own sounds.


    <snipped>

    My guess is that Half_Pint is just trying to get everyone wound up
    (well it is half-term), or he/she/it is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

    Subject closed as far as I'm concerned.

    --
    Michael Turner
    Email (ROT13)
    [email protected]



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