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- 07-21-2006, 01:47 AM #1AnnaGuest
Hi.
I know it's a cliche issue, but I would like to present my personal
opinion about convergence phones.
Like most people, I also have a mobile phone with camera, MP3 player,
voice recorder, etc. At first, convergence phones seemed to be very
convenient and economical, but I'm sick of those phones now. Not
convenient and not economical. I should have bought an MP3 player and a
digital camera separately because those functions' quality of cell
phone could not satisfy me. The secondary functions of cell phones are
only suitable for secondary use.
Users can have a simpler, higher quality and smaller phones if
manufacturers are willing to make them. However, most manufactures are
just trying to put more and more functions into one device. They don't
care about making simple but high-quality divergence devices (well,
some companies care, but few). The moto of 'sliming' is just for
developing convergence devices, even though they can make ultra-slim
divergence devices with present technology.
Somebody says that convergence is a big trend, and users choose that
trend. Really? I don't think so. Manufacturers choose that trend, and
the users are just forced to purchase convergence devices. Next time, I
want to buy a simple cell phone supporting only phone call and SMS
because I already have other electronic devices. I bet you that I can't
buy a simple but nice phone. I can hardly find such a phone recently.
Of course, some companies make basic phones, but the kind is not
various. In addition to that, I will pay more money for next cell phone
than previous one because DMB TV has been added on the phones. As
camera and MP3 player was, DMB TV will not be option, and the standard
price of cell phones will be raised in the near future.
Convergence is not an only key to high technology. The convergence
devices of high quality, appropriate size, good usability, and
reasonable price will be possible based on the improvement of the
divergence devices. I think that manufacturers should turn their eyes
from convergence devices to divergence devices.
What is your opinion?
› See More: I'm sick of convergence phones
- 07-21-2006, 01:26 PM #2Andy BallGuest
Re: I'm sick of convergence phones
Hello Anna,
A> What is your opinion?
I prefer separate devices that use standard interfaces to
communicate as appropriate. Unfortunately mobile phone
makers bundle in features like cameras, MP3 and video in
part because it makes them easier to sell to mobile network
providors, who will make money by charging customers extra
to send pictures or to download videos and music.
It seems remarkably difficult (at least where I live) to buy
a decent voice phone these days.
- Andy Ball
- 07-21-2006, 01:52 PM #3
Re: I'm sick of convergence phones
the problem with convergence is the more functions the phone has, the lesser the battery life, its a major turn off for me
- 07-21-2006, 08:51 PM #4AnnaGuest
Re: I'm sick of convergence phones
We Are Devo! 작성:
> On 21/07/2006 at 08:47:46 Anna wrote :
> > Users can have a simpler, higher quality and smaller phones if
> > manufacturers are willing to make them.
>
> Nokia 1100 ;-)
> http://www.nokiausa.com/phones/1100
>
> --
Thank you for your information.
Yes. Many people want such a simple phone, but unfortunately, kind and
design are not various like convergence phones. Why manufacturers do
not make various basic phones? Well, it is definitely related to
marketing strategy not customers' needs.
- 07-21-2006, 09:13 PM #5AnnaGuest
Re: I'm sick of convergence phones
Andy Ball 작성:
> Hello Anna,
>
> A> What is your opinion?
>
> I prefer separate devices that use standard interfaces to
> communicate as appropriate. Unfortunately mobile phone
> makers bundle in features like cameras, MP3 and video in
> part because it makes them easier to sell to mobile network
> providors, who will make money by charging customers extra
> to send pictures or to download videos and music.
You're right. The reason is to make more money 'for 'providers.'
In addition to that, I think that user interface standard is also
depends on mobile network providers, though user interface should be
designed based on the users' side not providers' side. It makes the
usability of convergence phones poor.
- 07-22-2006, 04:21 AM #6OsirisGuest
Re: I'm sick of convergence phones
On 21 Jul 2006 19:51:01 -0700, "Anna" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>We Are Devo! ??:
>
>> On 21/07/2006 at 08:47:46 Anna wrote :
>> > Users can have a simpler, higher quality and smaller phones if
>> > manufacturers are willing to make them.
>>
>> Nokia 1100 ;-)
>> http://www.nokiausa.com/phones/1100
>>
>> --
>
> Thank you for your information.
> Yes. Many people want such a simple phone, but unfortunately, kind and
>design are not various like convergence phones. Why manufacturers do
>not make various basic phones? Well, it is definitely related to
>marketing strategy not customers' needs.
Well, "market" is a complicated mechanism. Many many books have been
written about it, and the most enlightening ones have not, in my
opinion, come from economists, but from philosophy.
Energy for this mechanism comes from both customer AND producer.
A designer is not ONLY a designer, but also a customer him/herself.
A very well known problem with designers is, that they design for
affluent males, 30yrs old, 77 kg, 1.85 m high , married, 2.3 children
etc.
That guy does not exist.
He is an average model, representing the whole market.
Look at cellphones these days and imagine you are 80 yrs old, have old
and not-so-mobile fingers etc.
I found one for my father of 89 yrs old. Bright yellow, so he can
easily find it, big buttons, wide casing to hold comfortably, no
camera, no special ringtoning, simple address book in it for 50 names.
When I think of it RATIONALLY, it is really a perfect phone for a lot
of people, young and old. But people are not only rational in that
sense.
We are also emotional, we want "image", status etc.
That is something designers have understood well too.
And "the newest phone on the block" does give status and builds your
image among aquaintances. You tel me why...
So, users are not only users. We are members of a society too, needing
status, image. You choose how much and what kind...
and remember, this cellphone stuff is very new. Dust has still to
settle, we do not know what really will shape the market.
Look at PDA: the small keyboards are prohibiting. I myself had one and
don't use it anymore. A paper agenda is much quicker, safer, no backup
trouble etc.
Will PDA conquer the market ? I don't think so. Few people NEED all
that info ON them.
- 07-22-2006, 06:29 AM #7AnnaGuest
Re: I'm sick of convergence phones
Osiris 작성:
> On 21 Jul 2006 19:51:01 -0700, "Anna" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> We are also emotional, we want "image", status etc.
> That is something designers have understood well too.
> And "the newest phone on the block" does give status and builds your
> image among aquaintances. You tel me why...
>
> So, users are not only users. We are members of a society too, needing
> status, image. You choose how much and what kind...
Good point: we are members of a society and need status, image...But,
can we represent our own uique (at least, individual characteristic)
"image" with present phones? I don't think so. Too uniform phones:
maybe, physical appearances seem to be various and splendor, and many
different functions are available.. but, so uniform and typical whole
package of "high-tech" convergence. Whenever I buy cellphones, I feel
like to buy over-priced food set, even though I know that I can't
finish half of it.
A society consists of many different groups, and marketing target user
groups are various; only in a textbook? Am I too philosophical? Well,
as you said, market is a complex mechanism, but I think that current
cellphone market follows so simple rule - all functions should come
together only because present technology can do it.
> and remember, this cellphone stuff is very new. Dust has still to
> settle, we do not know what really will shape the market.
> Look at PDA: the small keyboards are prohibiting. I myself had one and
> don't use it anymore. A paper agenda is much quicker, safer, no backup
> trouble etc.
> Will PDA conquer the market ? I don't think so. Few people NEED all
> that info ON them.
I agree with you. However, I am not sure whether trend of convergence
cellphone will wane, even if many people would want simple phones. Most
people need phone call while not most people need personal
management/scheduling. That is different point between cellphone and
PDA, I think. Even though people don't need all those functions on
convergence phones, they should buy those phones as long as
manufacturers push those many functions into a cellphone.
- 07-22-2006, 07:01 AM #8OsirisGuest
Re: I'm sick of convergence phones
On 22 Jul 2006 05:29:30 -0700, "Anna" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Osiris ??:
>
>> On 21 Jul 2006 19:51:01 -0700, "Anna" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> We are also emotional, we want "image", status etc.
>> That is something designers have understood well too.
>> And "the newest phone on the block" does give status and builds your
>> image among aquaintances. You tel me why...
>>
>> So, users are not only users. We are members of a society too, needing
>> status, image. You choose how much and what kind...
>
> Good point: we are members of a society and need status, image...But,
>can we represent our own uique (at least, individual characteristic)
>"image" with present phones? I don't think so.
partly only, I hope. There are so much more facets to our unique
personality...
But hey, not everyone is in a position to express him/herself
completely...
We onthe northern hemisphere are privileged in that respect...
>Too uniform phones:
>maybe, physical appearances seem to be various and splendor, and many
>different functions are available.. but, so uniform and typical whole
>package of "high-tech" convergence. Whenever I buy cellphones, I feel
>like to buy over-priced food set, even though I know that I can't
>finish half of it.
True: I don't know every nook and cranny of my not so state of the art
phone... and I am a software developer/ mechanical engineer...
>
> A society consists of many different groups, and marketing target user
>groups are various; only in a textbook? Am I too philosophical? Well,
>as you said, market is a complex mechanism, but I think that current
>cellphone market follows so simple rule - all functions should come
>together only because present technology can do it.
Yep: it's included because we can include it. See it as a marketing
test... What will be used, will stay... remember: young techniques.
>
>> and remember, this cellphone stuff is very new. Dust has still to
>> settle, we do not know what really will shape the market.
>> Look at PDA: the small keyboards are prohibiting. I myself had one and
>> don't use it anymore. A paper agenda is much quicker, safer, no backup
>> trouble etc.
>> Will PDA conquer the market ? I don't think so. Few people NEED all
>> that info ON them.
>
> I agree with you. However, I am not sure whether trend of convergence
>cellphone will wane, even if many people would want simple phones. Most
>people need phone call while not most people need personal
>management/scheduling. That is different point between cellphone and
>PDA, I think. Even though people don't need all those functions on
>convergence phones, they should buy those phones as long as
>manufacturers push those many functions into a cellphone.
- 07-22-2006, 04:19 PM #9OsirisGuest
Re: I'm sick of convergence phones
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:19:22 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Osiris <>
>wrote:
>
>> I found one for my father of 89 yrs old. Bright yellow, so he can
>> easily find it, big buttons, wide casing to hold comfortably, no
>> camera, no special ringtoning, simple address book in it for 50 names.
>
>Which phone?
I dunno... could ask my father, but not now. it is a yellow phone,
with the buttons covered with a cover you slide OFF the phone. It
really completely separates from the phone, like some calculators
have. No accidentally call someone while you have it in your pocket.
Dutch KPN had it maybe 2 yrs back... So it will be "obsolete" now..
- 07-22-2006, 04:34 PM #10OsirisGuest
Re: I'm sick of convergence phones
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:19:22 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Osiris <>
>wrote:
>
>> I found one for my father of 89 yrs old. Bright yellow, so he can
>> easily find it, big buttons, wide casing to hold comfortably, no
>> camera, no special ringtoning, simple address book in it for 50 names.
>
>Which phone?
Ah, I found a picture on the net, it is as Swing 200 from dutch KPN.
If you go to www.marktplaats.nl and search with "swing 200", you will
find it.
- 07-22-2006, 10:02 PM #11AnnaGuest
Re: I'm sick of convergence phones
Osiris 작성:
> On 22 Jul 2006 05:29:30 -0700, "Anna" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Good point: we are members of a society and need status, image...But,
> >can we represent our own uique (at least, individual characteristic)
> >"image" with present phones? I don't think so.
>
> partly only, I hope. There are so much more facets to our unique
> personality...
> But hey, not everyone is in a position to express him/herself
> completely...
> We onthe northern hemisphere are privileged in that respect...
Yes, nobody can express him/herself completely. I know that we can
choose and show just part of our images with devices, but I think that
the part is so limited with recent phones.
> > A society consists of many different groups, and marketing target user
> >groups are various; only in a textbook? Am I too philosophical? Well,
> >as you said, market is a complex mechanism, but I think that current
> >cellphone market follows so simple rule - all functions should come
> >together only because present technology can do it.
>
> Yep: it's included because we can include it. See it as a marketing
> test... What will be used, will stay... remember: young techniques.
How long do you expect this marketing test will be continued?
To me, as a person who has interest in user interface and usability
problems, the test period seems to be longer than I expected and
wanted. Well, I don't know well about the marketing, but the test
period much depends on the marketing and technical strategy than
customers' tastes, as I said. Surely, most devices have a marketing
test, but I think that the test of cellphones is over-authorized to
manufacturers now. I am a graduated student and do some projects of
cellphone companies as an engineer, but I am a user on the other side.
So, that' s why I said that recent cellphone products are overly leaned
to manufacturers' technical playground and it is a time to restart the
other technology - divergence.
- 07-23-2006, 04:06 AM #12OsirisGuest
Re: I'm sick of convergence phones
On 22 Jul 2006 21:02:30 -0700, "Anna" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Osiris ??:
>
>> On 22 Jul 2006 05:29:30 -0700, "Anna" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Good point: we are members of a society and need status, image...But,
>> >can we represent our own uique (at least, individual characteristic)
>> >"image" with present phones? I don't think so.
>>
>> partly only, I hope. There are so much more facets to our unique
>> personality...
>> But hey, not everyone is in a position to express him/herself
>> completely...
>> We onthe northern hemisphere are privileged in that respect...
>
> Yes, nobody can express him/herself completely. I know that we can
>choose and show just part of our images with devices, but I think that
>the part is so limited with recent phones.
Of course. But we do not only use phones... there is fashion in
clothing, cars, even houses: we want to live in a "nice enough"
neighborhood, consistent with oour job/salary.
"keeping up with the joneses", they say in the UK.
Everybody can find aspects of this attitude in her life...
>
>> > A society consists of many different groups, and marketing target user
>> >groups are various; only in a textbook? Am I too philosophical? Well,
>> >as you said, market is a complex mechanism, but I think that current
>> >cellphone market follows so simple rule - all functions should come
>> >together only because present technology can do it.
>>
>> Yep: it's included because we can include it. See it as a marketing
>> test... What will be used, will stay... remember: young techniques.
>
> How long do you expect this marketing test will be continued?
It will never stop. Each time a new technique or idea is born, it
starts over from the beginning.
Look ar cars: more than 100 yrs old, but every year something new is
hyping.
the knife: 10's of thousands of years old, but they advertise new
knives on TellSell (tv) as if the knife was just invented.
> To me, as a person who has interest in user interface and usability
>problems, the test period seems to be longer than I expected and
>wanted. Well, I don't know well about the marketing, but the test
>period much depends on the marketing and technical strategy than
>customers' tastes, as I said. Surely, most devices have a marketing
>test, but I think that the test of cellphones is over-authorized to
>manufacturers now.
You could criticize that, but that does not make it go away: you can
be an atheist, but that won't make god go away ;-)
I think manufacturers produce silly things, but in the end, the power
is in the user: if her verdict is "no", the manufacturer will stop.
But a user is not just a rational, cognitive user in the narrow sense.
She is also emotional, and a member of a society in which all KINDS of
rationalism have a place and in which cognitivism may even NOT have a
prominent place.
Watch out as an engineer:
1: logical positivism (google it !) is DEAD.
2; Mathematical thinking is NARROW !
3: You cannot solve any problem by thinking hard enough.
4: And logic does not always work (Aristotle already knew that).
> I am a graduated student and do some projects of
>cellphone companies as an engineer, but I am a user on the other side.
Then you are in the unique position to interview those
engineers/marketeers etc.
I envy you.
>So, that' s why I said that recent cellphone products are overly leaned
>to manufacturers' technical playground and it is a time to restart the
>other technology - divergence.
I would not know when "the time" is...
Sexy phones are VERY seductive...
I think someday, the market will settle... companies will be taken
over, or go bankrupt. technology will become mature. Standardisation
will set in.
And a new invention will be done and things will start over...
I wonder, now that phones have such a prominent place as a vehicle for
"expressing ones personality", if other products have lost their place
? Do people have less interest in clothing fashion, cars, make-up ?
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