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  1. #16
    DTC
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China

    Oxford wrote:
    >> WTF you smoking? The iPhone runs on 2G, which means its SLOWER than 3G

    >
    > No. It mainly runs on 802.11g which is far faster than 3G, the fall back
    > is 2.5G. 3G isn't used in the States except for around 5% of the market.
    >
    > Most people will use the normal 802.11g speed, not get stuck with slower
    > 3G so the concept of 3G is moot.


    802.11anything is NOT the same as 3G...no need to even begin to make
    comparisons.

    No comparison of any open 802.11anything to any cellular data service.




    See More: Next Up - The iPhone in China




  2. #17
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China

    At 13 Nov 2007 19:01:32 -0700 Oxford wrote:
    > Verizon didn't understand the
    > impact the iPhone would have so they have been shrinking ever since.


    Yep. Shrinking to the tune of 1.6 million new customers last quarter-
    almost as many as AT&T's 2 million. The majority of iPhones sold were
    sold to existing AT&T customers.




  3. #18
    Oxford
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China

    DTC <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > Most people will use the normal 802.11g speed, not get stuck with slower
    > > 3G so the concept of 3G is moot.

    >
    > 802.11anything is NOT the same as 3G...no need to even begin to make
    > comparisons.


    except 90% of your waking life you are within range of the faster 802.11
    service. 3G is only good if you are on the road or in some remote area.

    > No comparison of any open 802.11 anything to any cellular data service.


    actually, it's a very clear comparison. 3G doesn't hold a candle to
    normal 802.11 service. Nobody would use 3G unless they have to. so yes,
    of 10% of our life if you live in 35 cities, 3G can make some sense. but
    90% of your life and 95% of the places people live... 3G makes no
    difference.

    they will click on "auto connect" to 802.11 with their iPhone. Anything
    "G" is just a fallback or desperate / break glass in case of emergency
    type of connection.

    the computer industry is clearly ahead of the cell world in this area.

    -



  4. #19
    Oxford
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Jon <[email protected]> wrote:

    > >> WTF you smoking? The iPhone runs on 2G, which means its SLOWER than 3G

    > >
    > > No. It mainly runs on 802.11g which is far faster than 3G, the fall back
    > > is 2.5G. 3G isn't used in the States except for around 5% of the market.
    > >
    > > Most people will use the normal 802.11g speed, not get stuck with slower
    > > 3G so the concept of 3G is moot.

    > The 802.11 is if there is a Wifi connection, and almost all the time
    > there will not be.


    what? only if you live in a poor area. here... there is open wireless
    everywhere, i see you use windows so that typically means you are poorly
    educated, thus live in a poor area. but if you move to a better area
    you'll see plenty of open wifi.

    > Hell, if you are on a bus or in a car, you cannot maintain a wifi
    > connection, as wifi does not transmit far.


    and we are not talking about that, we are talking about where you spend
    90% of your time, in which you have full access to wifi.

    > And if the iPhone is advanced as you say it is, why not make it 3G? I
    > mean, it is so much better to have faster connections than slower 2.5G
    > connections.


    guess you weren't around when it was discovered that 3G "halves" your
    battery life, makes your phone nearly twice as thick and has no coverage
    except in 35 cities. 3G very well may happen, but SJ hasn't approved of
    it as yet, so it's not going to be a broad standard until that happens.

    > And its only 5% of the market in the states because its a new technology
    > which just came out. You are boosting that the iPhone is a new and
    > great device, yet it does not even have the lastest technology built
    > into it.


    well, there is a wireless spectrum sale coming up, and apple & google
    have been rumored to be bidders on it. if that happens... 3G dies a
    terrible death. 3G isn't ready for prime time unless you sacrifice. not
    something apple or their users are willing to do.

    -



  5. #20
    Oxford
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China

    eatfastnoodle <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Apple barely exists in China, either commercially or in term of
    > pirated software. A lot of people don't even realize that Mac has a
    > completely different OS from what average Chinese would expect on a
    > personal computer, somebody actually asked me what kind of windows Mac
    > has. (windows is the only game in town, Linux got a of fuss and medium
    > level of government support, but in reality, just like OS X, it's
    > barely qualified as a blip on the radar, piracy is so wide spread that
    > nothing can compete with windows ecosystem) Anyway, hacked Iphone has
    > already appeared on TaoBao, China's most popular auction site, and
    > quite some Chinese student/scholar/ got requests here in the US from
    > their friends and relatives to buy a Iphone for them. But I seriously
    > doubt Iphone would be much more than a toy for high-end users.( You
    > think American carriers are money-sucking vampires? Go to China and
    > try China Mobile and China Unicom. You will know who is REALLY the
    > vampire)


    yes, on the low end, but there are plenty of macs in china for
    publishing, video, tv broadcasting, photography, on and on.

    then you have the mass popularity of the ipod in china and it's quite a
    healthy market for apple.

    http://www.apple.com.cn/



  6. #21
    Oxford
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China

    Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:

    > At 13 Nov 2007 19:01:32 -0700 Oxford wrote:
    > > Verizon didn't understand the
    > > impact the iPhone would have so they have been shrinking ever since.

    >
    > Yep. Shrinking to the tune of 1.6 million new customers last quarter-
    > almost as many as AT&T's 2 million. The majority of iPhones sold were
    > sold to existing AT&T customers.


    so they shrunk by 400,000? ouch. the iPhone is eating them up.

    and actually 2/3rds of iphone users are new to AT&T.



  7. #22
    John Mason
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China


    "Oxford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> > http://snipurl.com/1tlab
    >> >
    >> > HONG KONG (AP) Ð China Mobile Ltd. is in talks with Apple about
    >> > bringing
    >> > the iPhone to China, but no agreement has been reached yet, the Chinese
    >> > company's chief executive said Tuesday.
    >> >
    >> > The companies still need to iron out their differences over revenue
    >> > sharing, Wang Jianzhou told reporters on the sidelines of the GSMA
    >> > Mobile Asia Congress in the Chinese territory of Macau.
    >> >
    >> > Apple launched its iPhone in the U.S. earlier this year. The Cupertino,
    >> > California-based company has plans to launch the device in Asia in 2008
    >> > and is in talks with various operators in the region. China Mobile is
    >> > China's largest cellphone carrier.
    >> >
    >> > ---
    >> >
    >> > Apple has a long history with China, bringing the the first laser
    >> > printers
    >> > to the country and first to offer a Chinese based OS.
    >> >
    >> > Congrats to Apple for making the world a better place.
    >> >
    >> > -

    >> answer me this, what does the iPhone have to do with Verizon? Nokia?
    >> T-Mobile?

    >
    > The iPhone is what Verizon is trying to WIN a contract for, Nokia is the
    > current design embarrassment of all cell phones and needs to learn how
    > Apple has set the standard which all smartphones are now judged.
    >
    > And T-Mobile is the iPhone carrier for Germany. They wished they had won
    > the American contract but weren't up to the quality level Apple requires.
    >
    > Orange is up next in France, so expect plenty of iPhone developments
    > there.
    >
    > I think you might not realize, but the iPhone will entirely change the
    > cell phone industry. Nobody has a cell phone as advanced as the iPhone
    > and can't for 17 years because of the 200+ patents on the iPhone.
    >
    > So join in the FUN, or live a life of poor quality phones for the next
    > 17 years.
    >
    > The multi-touch party stars here:
    >
    > http://www.iphone.com/
    >

    In what ways, with the exception of the user interface, is the iPhone more
    advanced?

    Would it be the iPhone's lack of Video calling, lack of HSDPA data or would
    it be its inability to record video via its feeble camera?




  8. #23
    Snit
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China

    "John Mason" <[email protected]> stated in post
    [email protected] on 11/14/07 12:46 PM:

    >> The multi-touch party stars here:
    >>
    >> http://www.iphone.com/
    >>

    > In what ways, with the exception of the user interface, is the iPhone more
    > advanced?


    With the exception of the user interface? Why?


    --
    The answer to the water shortage is to dilute it.




  9. #24
    Oxford
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China

    Mark Crispin <[email protected]> wrote:

    > What makes it particularly ironic is that if he really uses Wi-Fi more
    > than cellular, he can get a much better user experience with a Nokia N800.
    > The Nokia's 800x480 screen may be somewhat short of "the full Internet" of
    > a laptop with 1024x780 or better, but it's more than twice as good as the
    > pathetic 320x480 in iPhone.


    can't think of the last time i need to use cells for data, what would be
    the point mark? using normal 802.11 is much faster.

    but the Nokia screen is very poor at resolution, 800x480 doesn't mean
    much if the screen is fuzzy, of poor quality. The iPhone far and away is
    clearer than the Nokia at any resolution. It's all to do with Apple uses
    better screens and has more control over those screens. Nokia doesn't
    have any experience with video screens.

    > Nokia even gives you a Skype card good for 3 months of unlimited free
    > calls in the USA and Canada.


    Yes, and you can use Skype with the iPhone, big deal.

    > Of course, that doesn't help when there is no Wi-Fi, or the Wi-Fi sucks,
    > or it's a technical conference where thousands of people are using the
    > Wi-Fi simultaneously. For that, you have mobile phones; and that is when
    > having a Verizon 3G phone really shines.


    But not having WiFi is very rare. Just curious to you live in
    Washington, a kinda "backwater technological" State? If so, now we know
    why you get confused. Move to a more modern area and you'll see what I'm
    talking about.

    > And, since the Nokia N800 talks to any Bluetooth capable mobile phone on
    > any network, it too can access the Internet via Verizon's 3G network.
    >
    > Meanwhile, the iPhone geeks are stuck with the local broken Wi-Fi or
    > AT&T's pathetic 2G network on their little tiny screens. They're not
    > allowed to use other networks.


    The iPhone screen is bigger than most any Nokia, it's the biggest
    screen'd small phone you can buy. What is broken WiFi? You mean symbian
    WiFi or Windows WiFi. On OSX, WiFi works great.

    > > Last weekend I was staying in a hotel which had free wifi, of course
    > > the network connection was fast, but their internet connection sucked,
    > > it obviously didn't have the bandwidth for all the hotel guest that
    > > were using it.

    >
    > Since when is that NOT the case with hotel Wi-Fi?


    Since forever, Jerry didn't know how to setup his wifi or was using a
    windows machine. Macs wouldn't have that problem since they set all the
    standards for wifi in the first place.

    -



  10. #25
    CozmicDebris
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China

    Oxford <[email protected]> wrote in news:colalovesosx-
    [email protected]:


    >
    > and actually 2/3rds of iphone users are new to AT&T.
    >


    No they weren't.



  11. #26
    CozmicDebris
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China

    Snit <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:C3609F61.9945E%[email protected]:

    > "John Mason" <[email protected]> stated in post
    > [email protected] on 11/14/07 12:46 PM:
    >
    >>> The multi-touch party stars here:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.iphone.com/
    >>>

    >> In what ways, with the exception of the user interface, is the iPhone
    >> more advanced?

    >
    > With the exception of the user interface? Why?
    >
    >


    Because that function alone does not represent advanced cellular
    functionality.



  12. #27
    Mark Crispin
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China

    On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, Oxford wrote:
    > but the Nokia screen is very poor at resolution, 800x480 doesn't mean
    > much if the screen is fuzzy, of poor quality. The iPhone far and away is
    > clearer than the Nokia at any resolution. It's all to do with Apple uses
    > better screens and has more control over those screens. Nokia doesn't
    > have any experience with video screens.


    ROTFL!

    It's funny to see Oxtard come up with statements like this out of thin
    air.

    This is the first that anyone has ever claimed that the screen on the
    Nokia N800 was "fuzzy" or "of poor quality" compared to the iPhone.

    Most people who see the two side by size say the opposite. Obviously,
    Oxtard has never seen a Nokia N800.

    Let's talk about text (as in reading email). The iPhone is incapable of
    rendering readable text in, say, standard 24x80 dimensions. You can't
    draw readable text that is only 3 pixels wide, but that's the best you can
    do with iPhone. That's why you need multitouch on iPhone; you
    constantly have to zoom back and forth.

    A Nokia N800 displays a 14 point font in 24x80 in the default xterm, and
    in full screen mode displays 29x111.

    > Yes, and you can use Skype with the iPhone, big deal.


    There is no Skype client for the iPhone.

    > But not having WiFi is very rare. Just curious to you live in
    > Washington, a kinda "backwater technological" State? If so, now we know
    > why you get confused. Move to a more modern area and you'll see what I'm
    > talking about.


    ROTFL!

    This boy sure doesn't know much about the world outside his mother's
    basement, does he?

    > The iPhone screen is bigger than most any Nokia, it's the biggest
    > screen'd small phone you can buy.


    ROTFL!

    Evidentally Oxtard has never been to Japan either.

    > What is broken WiFi? You mean symbian
    > WiFi or Windows WiFi. On OSX, WiFi works great.


    Evidentally Oxtard isn't old enough to go on business trips and deal with
    Wi-Fi in hotels.

    > Macs wouldn't have that problem since they set all the standards for
    > wifi in the first place.


    ROTFL.

    That is news to IEEE.

    -- Mark --

    http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
    Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.



  13. #28
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China

    At 14 Nov 2007 12:59:30 -0700 Oxford wrote:

    > can't think of the last time i need to use cells for data, what would

    be
    > the point mark? using normal 802.11 is much faster.


    Except wherever you have WiFi, you probably have your Macbook, don't you?
    Cellular data is for all points in-between home and work.


    > but the Nokia screen is very poor at resolution,


    Again, come back after you've seen it- two days ago you didn't know what
    an N800 was, so clearly you've never used one.

    > 800x480 doesn't mean
    > much if the screen is fuzzy, of poor quality.


    True, but in the N800's case it isn't and isn't.

    > The iPhone far and away is
    > clearer than the Nokia at any resolution.


    That would be so much more convincingif you spoke from experience instead
    of rhetoric...

    It's all to do with Apple uses
    > better screens and has more control over those screens. Nokia doesn't
    > have any experience with video screens.
    >
    > Yes, and you can use Skype with the iPhone, big deal.


    No, as you well know, you can't. You can use a dial-around service like
    Shape or Mobivox, but that rewuires Cellular service and uses your
    cellular plan minutes. One of the advantages of Skype, at least for me,
    is that it works where I might be out of cell range but have WiFi (some
    large hotels, for instance, have poor cell coverage inside, but free WiFi)
    or overseas, where Skype of WiFi is cheaper than international roaming.

    > But not having WiFi is very rare.


    No it isn't. You didn't bother looking at Navizon.com, did you?

    > Just curious to you live in
    > Washington, a kinda "backwater technological" State?


    Compared to your Minnesota? The "Silicon Valley" of the upper Midwest?

    > Macs wouldn't have that problem since they set all the
    > standards for wifi in the first place.


    Clueless. Many small hotels, particularly off the beaten track, source
    their WiFi from a single connection, often via satellite. That might be
    a single 2 or 3MB connection shared by every on-line guest in the hotel!
    It doesn't matter if it's hooked to a Mac, a PC or a Cray XT4, that's
    dialup-speed when 20 or 30 guests start sharing it!

    I've stayed in hotels where my EDGE connection was snappier than the
    hotel's "broadband."





  14. #29
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China

    At 14 Nov 2007 12:46:28 -0700 Oxford wrote:

    > so they shrunk by 400,000? ouch.


    I forgot- you're "good with numbers." They grew by 1.6m.
    >the iPhone is eating them up.


    Actually both beat their net adds vs. this quarter last year.

    > and actually 2/3rds of iphone users are new to AT&T.


    Actually, no:

    http://www.rcrnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...6020/1011/free

    If you want to pretend you know anything about the wireless industry,
    start by reading the RCR News site- you'll pick up a few things, even if
    only by accident.

    "AT&T said that more than 40% of iPhone activations were new customers."

    Just a hint for you - 40% is less than half of 100%...







  15. #30
    Nobody you want to meet....
    Guest

    Re: Next Up - The iPhone in China

    <snip>
    do you realize this discussion is cross posted with the following groups:
    comp.sys.mac.advocacy,alt.cellular.attws,alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.nokia,alt.cellular.t-mobile





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