Paul Thurrott - "You need an iPhone"

At 12 Jun 2008 09:22:23 -0400 Carl wrote:

> Yes, thanks to all of you who have pointed me to Mobileme, which I was
not
> aware of until one helpful poster (before you I mean) posted it last night.

>
> And that program makes the iPhone more appealing to me. However, and I
don't
> mean to be trying to throw roadblocks of rationalizations at you all, I
> believe neither MS Exchange nor Mobileme sychronize the task list or Notes,

> but only the calendar and address book. I did mention all four functions
in
> my original post. I use them all. Any information or workarounds on
these
> two functions?


Check out www.funambol.com, a SyncML client. You install an Outlook plug-in
on your PC, and the Funambol client on your smartphone (or dumbphone) then
sync with your choice of free SyncML servers, or install the server
software on your own PC if the idea of storing your data on someone else's
server scares you.

Funambol supports Contacts, Calendar, Tasks and Notes.

---

› See More: Paul Thurrott - "You need an iPhone"

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 12 Jun 2008 09:22:23 -0400 Carl wrote:
>
>> Yes, thanks to all of you who have pointed me to Mobileme, which I
>> was
> not
>> aware of until one helpful poster (before you I mean) posted it last
>> night.
>
>>
>> And that program makes the iPhone more appealing to me. However, and
>> I don't mean to be trying to throw roadblocks of rationalizations at
>> you all, I believe neither MS Exchange nor Mobileme sychronize the
>> task list or Notes,
>
>> but only the calendar and address book. I did mention all four
>> functions in my original post. I use them all. Any information or
>> workarounds on
> these
>> two functions?
>
>
> Check out www.funambol.com, a SyncML client. You install an Outlook
> plug-in on your PC, and the Funambol client on your smartphone (or
> dumbphone) then sync with your choice of free SyncML servers, or
> install the server software on your own PC if the idea of storing
> your data on someone else's server scares you.
>
> Funambol supports Contacts, Calendar, Tasks and Notes.
>
Very interesting program. However, not calendar nor tasks nor notes are
"supported yet". That implies they will be in the future though, I take it.
Here's the funambol for the iphone site:
http://www.funambol.com/solutions/iphone.php

At 16 Jun 2008 16:15:12 -0400 Carl wrote:


> > Funambol supports Contacts, Calendar, Tasks and Notes.
> >
> Very interesting program. However, not calendar nor tasks nor notes are
> "supported yet". That implies they will be in the future though, I take
it.
> Here's the funambol for the iphone site:
> http://www.funambol.com/solutions/iphone.php

Sorry, I was still working under the assumption that you hadn't settled on
an iPhone yet, but were still in the process of selecting a device. (I
wasn't aware the iPhone even had a "Notes" application to sync with.)

I use Funambol with my touchscreen Windows Mobile devices that support all
four categories you were concerned with. The AT&T Tilt, for example, would
suit your requirements. Funambol would allow you to sync wirelessly over
the air (as would Exchange, but annoyingly, Exchange doesn't support Notes
sync with mobile devices!)

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 16 Jun 2008 16:15:12 -0400 Carl wrote:
>
>
>>> Funambol supports Contacts, Calendar, Tasks and Notes.
>>>
>> Very interesting program. However, not calendar nor tasks nor notes
>> are "supported yet". That implies they will be in the future
>> though, I take it. Here's the funambol for the iphone site:
>> http://www.funambol.com/solutions/iphone.php
>
> Sorry, I was still working under the assumption that you hadn't
> settled on an iPhone yet, but were still in the process of selecting
> a device. (I wasn't aware the iPhone even had a "Notes" application
> to sync with.)
>
> I use Funambol with my touchscreen Windows Mobile devices that
> support all four categories you were concerned with. The AT&T Tilt,
> for example, would suit your requirements. Funambol would allow you
> to sync wirelessly over the air (as would Exchange, but annoyingly,
> Exchange doesn't support Notes sync with mobile devices!)
>
It's been a long thread so some of the points have been lost in translation.
To review how we got to here, I use a Blackberry device (8330) which syncs
wonderfully with MS Outlook- no complaints. I am fascinated by the iPhone
however and said I would get one of the new 3G ones if it synced as well
with MS Outlook. Then the suggestions began rolling in, from MS Exchange to
Mobileme to Funambol. None of the suggestions really does the job without
far greater expense and/or more hassle. That brings you up to date!

Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in
news:W2B5k.2110$_n.305@fe95:

> I use Funambol with my touchscreen Windows Mobile devices that support
> all four categories you were concerned with. The AT&T Tilt, for
> example, would suit your requirements. Funambol would allow you to
> sync wirelessly over the air (as would Exchange, but annoyingly,
> Exchange doesn't support Notes sync with mobile devices!)
>
>

Silly me, but why don't you guys use Remote Desktop from your XP/Vista
boxes or rdesktop from your Linux boxes? Then, you don't need to "sync"
all these duplicate notes and lists and other databases, but can access
them, directly, from your mobile Windows boxes over wifi or sellphone
system.

I don't use Outlook because I don't like to be a target, but Pegasus'
latest version works great over remote desktop as it requires nothing
special. If you've no keyboard to do typing, your stylus will work with
the WinXP on-screen keyboard WinXP provides just fine. I leave it in the
corner of the screen just to simplify using Windows function keys, even
though I'm doing my typing from my BT folding keyboard. It'll support both
simultaneously.

I'm sure there's a remote desktop to install in WinMo 5 or 6 from microsoft
if it's not installed. Everything works, except video and audio of course,
but that makes no difference doing what you want.

At 17 Jun 2008 00:46:19 +0000 Larry wrote:

> > I use Funambol with my touchscreen Windows Mobile devices that support
> > all four categories you were concerned with. The AT&T Tilt, for
> > example, would suit your requirements. Funambol would allow you to
> > sync wirelessly over the air (as would Exchange, but annoyingly,
> > Exchange doesn't support Notes sync with mobile devices!)
> >
> >
>
> Silly me, but why don't you guys use Remote Desktop from your XP/Vista
> boxes or rdesktop from your Linux boxes? Then, you don't need to "sync"
> all these duplicate notes and lists and other databases, but can access
> them, directly, from your mobile Windows boxes over wifi or sellphone
> system.


Because local access is much faster, and not connection dependent. I don't
want to have to dial into my home PC to lookup in my Outlook calendar when
my flight to DC next month is- it's already on my phone. My calendar is
always with me, even if I'm in a cave with no cell signal or WiFi. Changes
I make on my device (or PCs) will propigate to the server and then to my
other PCs and mobile devices automatically whenever they're online.



> I don't use Outlook because I don't like to be a target, but Pegasus'
> latest version works great over remote desktop as it requires nothing
> special. If you've no keyboard to do typing, your stylus will work with
> the WinXP on-screen keyboard WinXP provides just fine. I leave it in the
> corner of the screen just to simplify using Windows function keys, even
> though I'm doing my typing from my BT folding keyboard. It'll support
both
> simultaneously.
>
> I'm sure there's a remote desktop to install in WinMo 5 or 6 from
microsoft
> if it's not installed. Everything works, except video and audio of course,

> but that makes no difference doing what you want.


Except it takes forever (comparitively) and requires an active data
connection. Remote desktop has it's uses, but PIM data lookup isn't one of
them!

Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Because local access is much faster, and not connection dependent. I
> don't want to have to dial into my home PC to lookup in my Outlook
> calendar when my flight to DC next month is- it's already on my phone.
> My calendar is always with me, even if I'm in a cave with no cell
> signal or WiFi. Changes I make on my device (or PCs) will propigate
> to the server and then to my other PCs and mobile devices
> automatically whenever they're online.
>
>

I suppose if we make any situation absurd enough, it will probably justify
anything. But, that aside, syncing all these databases is always a pain in
the ass with people constantly complaining and having problems. Remote
Desktop is just so simple to run all your desktop software from
anywhere....ok, anywhere you have a connection...

I do have a confession to make. I keep my "calendar", such as it is, on a
paper pocket book because all that typing is an even worse pain in the ass.

The paper pad hasn't crashed in 40 years, but it's a paper pad+R not a
paper pad +RW so it doesn't erase...not a bad thing at all...(c;

The do yellow a couple of decades after the CDRs are long dead.

Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Except it takes forever (comparitively) and requires an active data
> connection. Remote desktop has it's uses, but PIM data lookup isn't
> one of them!
>
>

Your connection must really suck. I'm running Xnews from rdesktop on the
little Linux tablet at breakfast over the free wifi as I type this.
Because no database activity occurs over the link using rdesktop, it takes
no bandwidth to do such tasks. Syncing, on the other hand, requires the
link to accurately handle a whole database transfer....

I can also remotely print over rdesktop, of course, if I need a rare
printout to hard copy. I do need the IP of the printer so my desktop at
home can send it....or I can email it to me on the tablet and print it from
the tablet to someone's printer. Remote printing works great. My link
isn't part of the problem other than to press the PRINT button.

Larry wrote:
> Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Because local access is much faster, and not connection dependent. I
>> don't want to have to dial into my home PC to lookup in my Outlook
>> calendar when my flight to DC next month is- it's already on my
>> phone. My calendar is always with me, even if I'm in a cave with no
>> cell signal or WiFi. Changes I make on my device (or PCs) will
>> propigate to the server and then to my other PCs and mobile devices
>> automatically whenever they're online.
>>
>>
>
> I suppose if we make any situation absurd enough, it will probably
> justify anything. But, that aside, syncing all these databases is
> always a pain in the ass with people constantly complaining and
> having problems. Remote Desktop is just so simple to run all your
> desktop software from anywhere....ok, anywhere you have a
> connection...
>
> I do have a confession to make. I keep my "calendar", such as it is,
> on a paper pocket book because all that typing is an even worse pain
> in the ass.
>
> The paper pad hasn't crashed in 40 years, but it's a paper pad+R not a
> paper pad +RW so it doesn't erase...not a bad thing at all...(c;
>
> The do yellow a couple of decades after the CDRs are long dead.
>
I don't agree with, nor do I see any sense in any of these ideas of yours,
Larry. It's all technologically ass-backwards. How much more cumbersome and
unusable-for-practical-purposes can you possibly conceive of making data
management?

At 17 Jun 2008 12:07:25 +0000 Larry wrote:

> > Except it takes forever (comparitively) and requires an active data
> > connection. Remote desktop has it's uses, but PIM data lookup isn't
> > one of them!
> >
> >
>
> Your connection must really suck.

Are you really going to claim that you can run rdesktop on your tablet, log
into your PC and view your schedule faster than you could turn on a Palm or
PPC and see your day's schedule on it's home screen?

> I'm running Xnews from rdesktop on the
> little Linux tablet at breakfast over the free wifi as I type this.
> Because no database activity occurs over the link using rdesktop, it
> takes
> no bandwidth to do such tasks. Syncing, on the other hand, requires the
> link to accurately handle a whole database transfer....


I don't have to sync my entire PIM database each time I access it. It
resides on my device, and only updates when it changes.

Again, I'm not saying remote desktop doesn't have it's uses, but it's way
too cumbersome to look at one's calendar. Technology is supposed to make my
life easier- not more difficult.


> I do have a confession to make. I keep my "calendar", such as it is, on
a
> paper pocket book because all that typing is an even worse pain in the ass.



So, then, nothing you've said is really germain to the conversation, is it?
You've obviously come to the conclusion that any computer-based solution
is more cumbersome than a notepad, yet you suggest the MOST cumbersome of
cumbersome solutions for us!


> The paper pad hasn't crashed in 40 years, but it's a paper pad+R not a
> paper pad +RW so it doesn't erase...not a bad thing at all...(c;


It also doesn't alert you automatically to upcoming appointments- you have
to check it periodically. A pad also doesn't let you search a phone book
by any criteria other than last name (as a parent of young school aged
children you'd be surprised how often I have to search a phone number by a
child's first name since I can't for the life of me remember what
"Miranda's Mom's" name is!) The real power of a PDA for PIM data is that I
can schedule something far in the future and be notified when needed (i.e.
the refill date for my rarely used backup prepaid phone.)

> The do yellow a couple of decades after the CDRs are long dead.


Why not just sync it to the new pad you replace it with? ;-) Some of the
appointments on my current PPC phone (birthdays,anniversaries) and contacts
were first entered on my circa-2000 Casio E-100 and have synched their way
to the present through a half dozen PDAs and three or four PCs... No
notepad can do that.

At 16 Jun 2008 19:45:36 -0400 Carl wrote:

> It's been a long thread so some of the points have been lost in
> translation.
> To review how we got to here, I use a Blackberry device (8330) which
> syncs
> wonderfully with MS Outlook- no complaints. I am fascinated by the iPhone
> however and said I would get one of the new 3G ones if it synced as well
> with MS Outlook. Then the suggestions began rolling in, from MS Exchange
> to
> Mobileme to Funambol. None of the suggestions really does the job without
> far greater expense and/or more hassle. That brings you up to date!


Perfectly, thanks! Nice synopsys.

You had me up until the "fascinated by the iphone" part... ;-)

Kidding aside, the iPhone is an impressive device in a "savant" kind of
way. A great browser, e-mail client and media player powering a device
that's been crippled in the most ridiculous ways. A friend of mine
(who LOVES his iPhone) has to e-mail himself every document he thinks he'll
need before any overseas trip because you can't store them locally on the
phone- he has to open the documents as e-mail attachments to view them,
(and still can't edit, annotate, or save them.) 16GB of storage, and he
can't put a spreadsheet or PDF on it without his e-mail "trick." (Yet, as
testimony to the device, he's willing and happy to do that rather than use
his old Treo that could store such documents internally.)

Sure the 2.0 software will add new features and third-party capabilities,
but will it correct the flawed "ease-of-use at all costs"/ "don't rile the
record companies" design philosophy? I doubt it. The whole lack of
files/folders access smacks of Zune-like DRM-lockdown- only can load media
from a partnered PC (or buy it from the iTunes store via WiFi), can't
transfer media between iPhones, etc.

As cumbersome as my WinMobile device can be to configure or use at times,
at least it knows who owns it! ;-) Sure, I envy the iPhone's thinness and
pretty display, but the price of those thngs (not in dollars, but in
reduced functionality) just isn't worth it. I use my device as a laptop
replacement, and the thought of mass-e-mailing myself the contents of my
current device's My Documents folder just to have access to needed
documents eliminates the iPhone, at least in current form, from my list of
potential next devices.

Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Are you really going to claim that you can run rdesktop on your
> tablet, log into your PC and view your schedule faster than you could
> turn on a Palm or PPC and see your day's schedule on it's home screen?
>
>

Why not? .8 seconds to connect, another second or two for Windoze to boot
the user and I'm hooked to The Beast, direct. Because The Beast is always
running and never sleeps, my emails are already booted and left running in
the tray, along with your nasty message on usenet...(c;

I'd still be waiting for the syncing to find itself on a Palm if there were
massive changes during the intervals. Doesn't matter what I get with
rdesktop. I just store the movies/music/stuff that needs local video/audio
until I get home. No matter what anyone sends me, the download time is
ZERO because it's ALREADY downloaded and stored when I logon. It's even
backed up across the RAID so I don't lose it in one of your worst case
absurd scenarios.

If I really want it, I use FTP to get it straight to the tablet's monster
memory cards. That's what FTP is made for.....er, ah.....still.

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 16 Jun 2008 19:45:36 -0400 Carl wrote:
>
>> It's been a long thread so some of the points have been lost in
>> translation.
>> To review how we got to here, I use a Blackberry device (8330) which
>> syncs
>> wonderfully with MS Outlook- no complaints. I am fascinated by the
>> iPhone however and said I would get one of the new 3G ones if it
>> synced as well with MS Outlook. Then the suggestions began rolling
>> in, from MS Exchange to
>> Mobileme to Funambol. None of the suggestions really does the job
>> without far greater expense and/or more hassle. That brings you up
>> to date!
>
>
> Perfectly, thanks! Nice synopsys.
>
> You had me up until the "fascinated by the iphone" part... ;-)
>
> Kidding aside, the iPhone is an impressive device in a "savant" kind
> of way. A great browser, e-mail client and media player powering a
> device that's been crippled in the most ridiculous ways. A friend of
> mine (who LOVES his iPhone) has to e-mail himself every document he
> thinks he'll need before any overseas trip because you can't store
> them locally on the phone- he has to open the documents as e-mail
> attachments to view them, (and still can't edit, annotate, or save
> them.) 16GB of storage, and he can't put a spreadsheet or PDF on it
> without his e-mail "trick." (Yet, as testimony to the device, he's
> willing and happy to do that rather than use his old Treo that could
> store such documents internally.)
>
> Sure the 2.0 software will add new features and third-party
> capabilities, but will it correct the flawed "ease-of-use at all
> costs"/ "don't rile the record companies" design philosophy? I doubt
> it. The whole lack of files/folders access smacks of Zune-like
> DRM-lockdown- only can load media from a partnered PC (or buy it from
> the iTunes store via WiFi), can't transfer media between iPhones, etc.
>
> As cumbersome as my WinMobile device can be to configure or use at
> times, at least it knows who owns it! ;-) Sure, I envy the iPhone's
> thinness and pretty display, but the price of those thngs (not in
> dollars, but in reduced functionality) just isn't worth it. I use my
> device as a laptop replacement, and the thought of mass-e-mailing
> myself the contents of my current device's My Documents folder just
> to have access to needed documents eliminates the iPhone, at least in
> current form, from my list of potential next devices.
>
Agreed. More or less as I see it: a wonderfully glorified consumer toy with
very limited use as a business tool.

Menatime, I had a client in my office the other day who had both a Curve and
iPhone, both on AT&T with its slower internet access. He told me he loves
his iPhone more and only carries the Curve because his business requires it
(a telling enough statement). I asked him why he loves it over the Curve
and, of course, he was fixated on all the neat 'gadget' things that attract
me too: the way the touch-screen menus work, the ability to expand and
contract a page by pinching your fingers, etc. I asked him to open a
website and we waited a long time for it to open and, admittedly, the
graphic had great resolution and looked nice. Then I opened the same site on
my Verizon Curve, and his response was like, "Wow!". Mine opened in less
than half the time and the graphic, while not quite as resolute, was pretty
damn good to our human eyes next to his. Plus the Curve was perhaps 2/3 the
size and half the weight. I asked him if he thought the resolution
difference was really that important when surfing the web for information.
He acknowledged that it wasn't. I think he (and his daughter) walked away
more impressed with my Curve's functionality FOR WHAT IT WAS NEEDED TO DO,
than I was by his iPhone's gimmickry, which has its strengths more as a
glorified iPod and a picture viewer.

That said, allow me to take the time to qualify that I recognize that the
internet browsing speed difference will be negated as of 7/11, but at a cost
in size and weight. And that we never got into PIM functionality, which the
iPhone has yet to address satisfactorily and the Curve beats it hands down.
But finally let me add that I am a gadget lover and none of the above, while
speaking from my practical, right-brain side, negates the fact that I'd like
to own an iPhone.

"Carl" <[email protected]> amazed us all with the following
in news:[email protected]:

> Todd Allcock wrote:
>> At 16 Jun 2008 19:45:36 -0400 Carl wrote:
>>
>>> It's been a long thread so some of the points have been lost in
>>> translation.
>>> To review how we got to here, I use a Blackberry device (8330) which
>>> syncs
>>> wonderfully with MS Outlook- no complaints. I am fascinated by the
>>> iPhone however and said I would get one of the new 3G ones if it
>>> synced as well with MS Outlook. Then the suggestions began rolling
>>> in, from MS Exchange to
>>> Mobileme to Funambol. None of the suggestions really does the job
>>> without far greater expense and/or more hassle. That brings you up
>>> to date!
>>
>>
>> Perfectly, thanks! Nice synopsys.
>>
>> You had me up until the "fascinated by the iphone" part... ;-)
>>
>> Kidding aside, the iPhone is an impressive device in a "savant" kind
>> of way. A great browser, e-mail client and media player powering a
>> device that's been crippled in the most ridiculous ways. A friend of
>> mine (who LOVES his iPhone) has to e-mail himself every document he
>> thinks he'll need before any overseas trip because you can't store
>> them locally on the phone- he has to open the documents as e-mail
>> attachments to view them, (and still can't edit, annotate, or save
>> them.) 16GB of storage, and he can't put a spreadsheet or PDF on it
>> without his e-mail "trick." (Yet, as testimony to the device, he's
>> willing and happy to do that rather than use his old Treo that could
>> store such documents internally.)
>>
>> Sure the 2.0 software will add new features and third-party
>> capabilities, but will it correct the flawed "ease-of-use at all
>> costs"/ "don't rile the record companies" design philosophy? I doubt
>> it. The whole lack of files/folders access smacks of Zune-like
>> DRM-lockdown- only can load media from a partnered PC (or buy it from
>> the iTunes store via WiFi), can't transfer media between iPhones,
>> etc.
>>
>> As cumbersome as my WinMobile device can be to configure or use at
>> times, at least it knows who owns it! ;-) Sure, I envy the iPhone's
>> thinness and pretty display, but the price of those thngs (not in
>> dollars, but in reduced functionality) just isn't worth it. I use my
>> device as a laptop replacement, and the thought of mass-e-mailing
>> myself the contents of my current device's My Documents folder just
>> to have access to needed documents eliminates the iPhone, at least in
>> current form, from my list of potential next devices.
>>
> Agreed. More or less as I see it: a wonderfully glorified consumer toy
> with very limited use as a business tool.
>
> Menatime, I had a client in my office the other day who had both a
> Curve and iPhone, both on AT&T with its slower internet access. He
> told me he loves his iPhone more and only carries the Curve because
> his business requires it (a telling enough statement). I asked him
> why he loves it over the Curve and, of course, he was fixated on all
> the neat 'gadget' things that attract me too: the way the touch-screen
> menus work, the ability to expand and contract a page by pinching your
> fingers, etc. I asked him to open a website and we waited a long time
> for it to open and, admittedly, the graphic had great resolution and
> looked nice. Then I opened the same site on my Verizon Curve, and his
> response was like, "Wow!". Mine opened in less than half the time and
> the graphic, while not quite as resolute, was pretty damn good to our
> human eyes next to his. Plus the Curve was perhaps 2/3 the size and
> half the weight. I asked him if he thought the resolution difference
> was really that important when surfing the web for information. He
> acknowledged that it wasn't. I think he (and his daughter) walked away
> more impressed with my Curve's functionality FOR WHAT IT WAS NEEDED TO
> DO, than I was by his iPhone's gimmickry, which has its strengths more
> as a glorified iPod and a picture viewer.
>
> That said, allow me to take the time to qualify that I recognize that
> the internet browsing speed difference will be negated as of 7/11, but
> at a cost in size and weight. And that we never got into PIM
> functionality, which the iPhone has yet to address satisfactorily and
> the Curve beats it hands down. But finally let me add that I am a
> gadget lover and none of the above, while speaking from my practical,
> right-brain side, negates the fact that I'd like to own an iPhone.
>
>
>

And the story gets a little more interesting

Sprint sets price for new smart phone: $129.99

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...77342bc44d9291
19b0bffdb238.htm

Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:

> Kidding aside, the iPhone is an impressive device in a "savant" kind of
> way. A great browser, e-mail client and media player powering a device
> that's been crippled in the most ridiculous ways. A friend of mine
> (who LOVES his iPhone) has to e-mail himself every document he thinks he'll
> need before any overseas trip because you can't store them locally on the
> phone- he has to open the documents as e-mail attachments to view them,
> (and still can't edit, annotate, or save them.) 16GB of storage, and he
> can't put a spreadsheet or PDF on it without his e-mail "trick." (Yet, as
> testimony to the device, he's willing and happy to do that rather than use
> his old Treo that could store such documents internally.)

well, you can store any file on an iPhone with PhoneView.

http://www.ecamm.com/mac/phoneview/instructions.html

the iPhone is still less than a year old, it will have all those
features quickly enough, relax.