Sprint renewed my contract without telling me

Jim <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thanks, I wait for a response on my e-mail. If this is just a simple screw
> up and they take care of it I won't be upset but if they play games I'll be
> sure to contact everyone that might assist me.

Please let us know (especially, let me know!) what happens.

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22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Proprietor
888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]

---

› See More: Sprint renewed my contract without telling me

Update-

I received a useless e-mail back from them claiming I had a 2 year account
so I should call the number that told me I should send the e-mail. I don't
understand why Sprint invites bad press. Now I'll be forced to contact the
FCC, the BBB and just to make sure that they make sure their policies are
clear, I will be contacting Mike Boguslowsky, since I'm sure he'd love to
have something nice to report on to coincide with WLNP. I really despise
sinking to this level but Sprint just invites this sort of behavior. They
could have just said that was an oversight, offered me a nice deal to try to
retain me. What better time for Sprint to shoot themselves in the foot?
Why can't Sprint try to find some more people like O'sirus/BOB who actually
try to retain customers instead of drive them off.

"Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
newsiTxb.346079$Fm2.349885@attbi_s04...
> I just went to the sprint web page and signed in. When I looked at my
> contract details it said it expires in Oct 2004. My contract started Oct
> 2002 and was a 1 year contract. What is that all about?
>
>

"Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cTayb.256620$9E1.1368839@attbi_s52...
> I received a useless e-mail back from them claiming I had a 2 year account
> so I should call the number that told me I should send the e-mail. I
don't

One approach is to demand that Sprint show evidence of the contract. Here
is an extremely important post by O/Siris from 9/5/2003:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:...59%40sccrnsc03

"When we use our primary billing application and add a contract to an
account, there is a recorded message we read to the customer. That message
will not disappear until we select either "Agree" or "Disagree." It also
attaches to a numbered recording and notes that recording number in the
notes. If our recording system is down, then we transfer to an automated
attendant that does the process, but does not note. That's our job. If
neither one happens, we're stuck with a contract for which we give you all
the benefits, but no proof that you agreed to it."

Presumably because he is a Sprint employee himself, O/Siris does not
explicitly say that Sprint must either provide this voice recording as
evidence or waive the termination penalty; but that certainly seems to be
his implication. You may have to get to the cancellation/retention
department to find anyone knowledgeable and honest about the issue, though.
And even then, maybe not.

In article <[email protected]>, Steven J=20
[email protected] says...
> I really think that what we *need* to do is make this idiocy public, and
> put a *lot* of pressure on Sprint to fix their problem. I don't fault the
> CSRs for the idiocy, although I am rather irritated that they don't feel =
the
> need to say anything. On the other hand, I suspect that they have been to=
ld
> by management not to say anything.
>=20

Never attribute to malice that which is more easily=20
ascribed to laziness.

Seriously, I can assure you that management is *not* saying=20
this. But I *do* wish they'd be more aggressive in doing=20
something about it.

--=20
-+-
R=D8=DF
O/Siris
I work for SprintPCS
I *don't* speak for them.

In article <BVcyb.7679$aw2.3026660
@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>, Lawrence G. Maykalgmayka000
@ameritech.net says...
> "Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:cTayb.256620$9E1.1368839@attbi_s52...
> > I received a useless e-mail back from them claiming I had a 2 year acco=
unt
> > so I should call the number that told me I should send the e-mail. I
> don't
>=20
> One approach is to demand that Sprint show evidence of the contract. Her=
e
> is an extremely important post by O/Siris from 9/5/2003:
>=20
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=3D...=3Den&lr=3D&i=
e=3DUTF-8&selm=3Dv746b.365815%24Ho3.54359%40sccrnsc03
>=20
> "When we use our primary billing application and add a contract to an
> account, there is a recorded message we read to the customer. That messa=
ge
> will not disappear until we select either "Agree" or "Disagree." It also
> attaches to a numbered recording and notes that recording number in the
> notes. If our recording system is down, then we transfer to an automated
> attendant that does the process, but does not note. That's our job. If
> neither one happens, we're stuck with a contract for which we give you al=
l
> the benefits, but no proof that you agreed to it."
>=20
> Presumably because he is a Sprint employee himself, O/Siris does not
> explicitly say that Sprint must either provide this voice recording as
> evidence or waive the termination penalty; but that certainly seems to be
> his implication. You may have to get to the cancellation/retention
> department to find anyone knowledgeable and honest about the issue, thoug=
h.
> And even then, maybe not.
>=20

Oh boy, I *knew* being too honest would come bite me in the=20
ass later on

Just kidding. That same primary billing application=20
includes an icon that tells us whether the system considers=20
your contract verified or not. That leaves little doubt in=20
our mind about whether the customer agreed to the contract. =20
Unfortunately, in Customer Care, we don't get to decide the=20
validity of a contract. If the system says there is one in=20
force, we act accordingly. If you dispute it, that's for=20
Legal to decide.

--=20
-+-
R=D8=DF
O/Siris
I work for SprintPCS
I *don't* speak for them.

MTG <[email protected]> wrote:
> I wonder what would happen if you asked Sprint to prove you authorized a
> contract extension??

IMHO it's definitely worth Jim's time to ask!

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Proprietor
888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]

"MTG" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I wonder what would happen if you asked Sprint to prove you authorized a
> contract extension??
>
>
> "Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> newsiTxb.346079$Fm2.349885@attbi_s04...
> > I just went to the sprint web page and signed in. When I looked at my
> > contract details it said it expires in Oct 2004. My contract started
Oct
> > 2002 and was a 1 year contract. What is that all about?

If this was a one year extension. Jim, are you absolutely sure that when you
signed up for service, it was for only one year? Is it possible that you
signed up for two years?

Meta, what's going on with your computer? Time date on your message here
says 12-30-03 ...

Bob

"O/Siris" <robjvargas@sprîntpcs.côm> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just kidding. That same primary billing application
> includes an icon that tells us whether the system considers
> your contract verified or not. That leaves little doubt in
> our mind about whether the customer agreed to the contract.
> Unfortunately, in Customer Care, we don't get to decide the
> validity of a contract. If the system says there is one in
> force, we act accordingly. If you dispute it, that's for
> Legal to decide.

This is what you seem to be saying--correct me if I'm wrong:

Reps do not actually have access to the recordings that would prove consent
to an agreement. Rather, reps only see a little icon displayed by a
program. Reps have been *told* that the icon signifies that Sprint has such
a recording, but in reality, Sprint could easily have simply told a
programmer to display the icon whenever Sprint *wants* an agreement to
exist.


If this is what you're saying, this is worse than useless, because it leaves
customers in the same unreasonable situation as before: Customer knows he
didn't consent to an agreement, rep claims he did but has absolutely no
evidence. Ironically, your statement that a little icon "leaves little
doubt in our mind" is particularly worrisome. Have you actually been taught
to believe a little icon without a shred of evidence, knowing that Sprint
has a very strong motivation to deceive you? After all, Sprint desperately
wants you to be stubborn with the customer instead of admitting that you
have absolutely no evidence on which to make a judgment.

The customer's best hope, apparently, is simply to cancel the account,
refuse to pay the bogus termination fee, let Sprint send it to collections
and place a black mark on the customer's credit rating. Customer then files
a dispute with all 3 or 4 credit verification companies. Presumably, those
companies will ask Sprint for evidence, Sprint will have none, and the
companies will have to remove the black mark. The problem: Those credit
verification companies know very well who really pays their bills, and are
probably *very* reluctant to remove any black marks at all, especially if a
dishonest Sprint executive says, "I can't show you the evidence but believe
me, we have it."

Lawrence G. Mayka wrote:
>
> The customer's best hope, apparently, is simply to cancel the account,
> refuse to pay the bogus termination fee, let Sprint send it to
> collections and place a black mark on the customer's credit rating.
> Customer then files a dispute with all 3 or 4 credit verification
> companies. Presumably, those companies will ask Sprint for evidence,
> Sprint will have none, and the companies will have to remove the
> black mark. The problem: Those credit verification companies know
> very well who really pays their bills, and are probably *very*
> reluctant to remove any black marks at all, especially if a dishonest
> Sprint executive says, "I can't show you the evidence but believe me,
> we have it."

Your statement that Sprint will have no proof is not true. Sprint will have
an account that has a bound contract on it and an unpaid bill. That is
proof enough. The credit agencies do not do contract verification, that is
what lawyers do. So, unless you can afford to get a lawyer involved, it is
probably not wise to simply let it go to collections. It is much better to
be proactive and get a lawyer BEFORE it happens. You can sue Sprint for
legal fees and damages if you indeed have been wronged.

I think that in *most* cases, people agree to a new contract because they
just aren't paying attention to what they are doing. People often click
through those end-user agreements when installing software, and they say yes
I agree when asked to agree by CSRs. It is up to the consumer to be
thorough enough to at least understand what they are agreeing to. I am not
saying that mistakes don't happen, but I am saying that most of the mistakes
[about contract end date] are probably by the consumer and not by the
provider (in this case, Sprint PCS).

Tom Veldhouse

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Your statement that Sprint will have no proof is not true. Sprint will
have
> an account that has a bound contract on it and an unpaid bill. That is

Sprint will have no evidence of any contract. And an "unpaid bill" is
simply a demand for payment, not evidence that any such payment is actually
owed. You are apparently saying that credit agencies simply take Sprint's
"word" (ha!) that a contract exists, and that payment is legally owed but
not paid. If you are correct, then credit agencies are clearly in need of
some heavy government regulation!

> I think that in *most* cases, people agree to a new contract because they
> just aren't paying attention to what they are doing. People often click

You're making a sweeping assertion. What evidence do you have? Did you
read O/Siris' post of 9/5/03? The whole point is that Sprint claims to
record evidence of the customer's consent; but I think you are implicitly
agreeing with me that Sprint generally does not have actual evidence, but
instead falls back on rash assumptions like yours.

You all are leading me ever closer to the conclusion that Sprint plays a
deliberate game of deception. To the credit agencies, Sprint swears that it
has recorded evidence of the customer's consent; but internally, Sprint
employees know very well that no such evidence exists and instead fall back
on rash assumptions of what customers "probably" do in "most" cases.

Thomas T. Veldhouse <[email protected]> wrote:
> Your statement that Sprint will have no proof is not true. Sprint will have
> an account that has a bound contract on it and an unpaid bill

But the contract date will not be a valid date. The question is, where is the
proof that you agreed to the change? (Hopefully, SPCS's system has an audit
trail that shows that the date WAS changed.)

> saying that mistakes don't happen, but I am saying that most of the mistakes
> [about contract end date] are probably by the consumer and not by the
> provider (in this case, Sprint PCS).

I'd agree in the case of any other carrier, but I've gotten screwed on this,
my mother-in-law has gotten screwed after SPECIFICALLY being told she wouldn't
require an extension for what she was doing (which turned out to be wrong),
and I am sure many other people who pay attention to such matters have also
gotten screwed. Sprint needs to fix their software, or pound on the vendor
to fix it.


--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Proprietor
888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]

Lawrence G. Mayka <[email protected]> wrote:

> You all are leading me ever closer to the conclusion that Sprint plays a
> deliberate game of deception.

Being a fan of the service, it hurts me to say this, but the more I think
about it, the less I can see it being anything other than intentional on the
part of management.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Proprietor
888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]

It appears that Sprint tends to twist things around to best suit them.

I checked my online invoice and it showed my contract extended one
month, from Jan 11 to Feb 11, with Jan 11 being my anniversary date.
I called CS and she stated that I signed the contract in Feb 11. When
I told her that I'm have the contract in my hand and am looking at it,
she said she wasn't there to argue with me.

With that said.......

> Sprint will TELL YOU that taking a promotion or doing certain other things
> requires a contract extension.

Yes, they told me that if I accepted the 7 PM offer, it would extend my
contract one year. I declined the offer.

Each time I've called this last summer for various minor issues, I
asked when my contract expired and was told Jan 11, 2004.

> Last time I took a promo, it was the $5 PCS to PCS unlimited option, on 11/
> 28/02. I was TOLD by the Customer Service rep that it would require a one-
> year Advantage Agreement, and I AGREED TO THE CONTRACT EXTENSION.

I added PCS-to-PCS in Feb and that might have extended my contract as
you described above, but as I pointed out, I asked several times and
verified they contract ended Jan 11, 2003 - so adding the PCS-to-PCS
did not affect my contract.

Now adding PCS-to-PCS is not a plan change, its only an option change.
I went through this when they accidently removed my Vision. When I asked
it be put back on at $10 per month, AS PER MY CONTRACT, I was told
Vision is NOT PART OF CONTRACTUAL PLAN, therefore my contract had
nothing to do with it and since the $10 monthly special offer expired,
there was no way they could give it back to me.

"Lawrence G. Mayka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Sprint will have no evidence of any contract.

Sure they do. Whether you agreed or not is in question, not the existance
of the contract. Credit agencies do not do investigative work to verify
whether you agreed or not, that is up to legal representation.

Tom Veldhouse

"Steven J Sobol" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thomas T. Veldhouse <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Your statement that Sprint will have no proof is not true. Sprint will
have
> > an account that has a bound contract on it and an unpaid bill
>
> But the contract date will not be a valid date. The question is, where is
the
> proof that you agreed to the change? (Hopefully, SPCS's system has an
audit
> trail that shows that the date WAS changed.)

I agree. However, a credit agency (like Equifax) will not give a hoot.
They will simply report. You will need legal representation to fix the
problem, as they are the people who will dig through records (or sopeona
them) to find the verification of the contract (i.e. signature, web
acceptance, recorded verbal consent, etc.).

Tom Veldhouse