Data between two phones.. more detail.

Wow.. really showing my ignorance of cell phone systems her.. !!!

OK, well here is a more detailed description of the application..

The current system is for remote data logging and control.
I won't go into the details of what is monitored, but save to say that the
data acquisition system is
proprietary ( mine in this case ) and has been controlling and logging data
quite successfully for a couple of years.

The most economical way at the time to do this was to couple a land line to
an embedded
modem in the remote station and have it call the home station when it needed
to report any anomalous activity
and to call it to read data and verify/control the the remote system.

This works really well, does not require any third party accounts as the
internet would, just TWO off the shelf modems,
is quite secure and is well within the customer's budget.

Now, I have another customer who requires this type of data collection and
control, but he has no land line
nor is he able to afford one ( the nearest Telco is too far to be
economically viable, also there is no electricity supply,
so this is a 100% solar operation )
he does however have an almost line of sight path ( quasi, we have to bounce
the signal off a mountain or two !)
to a sprint tower and the phone service is quite solid when using a small
yagi. There is, unfortunately, no other service available.

I am quite surprised by the replies to date, I do not believe that cell
phones are such a step backwards...
is this just a marketing ploy to increase revenue with "extra" gimmicks that
are already intrinsic to the system???
I would have thought that if all transmissions are digital, it would be real
simple to send data as data and not
encode speech to data and back again !!.??

In that case, what then is a "data cable".. ?

What I really need here is a detailed specification of the phone's
capabilities and modes of operation.
where might one obtain such a thing for sprint phones ( N400 in this case,
although we could use any type )?

please can anyone help here, or am I at a total loss ????

If it really came to the crunch, I could always setup a form of analog
modem, just like we used to do many years ago
with the old POTS handsets..wow... that shows my age...!
this is a low data rate system, megabits of data bandwidth is not required,
in fact, the system could tolerate a Baud rate as low as 30 Baud !!


TIA..

---

› See More: Data between two phones.. more detail.

Why are you working this so hard to have cell phones part of the equation?
Last I knew there's a wide range of radio modems to get a job like this
done --- why not that route? Damned site cheaper than using cell, and all of
the gear will be under your control.

for example:

http://www.marinenet.net/Radio%20Modems.htm

and

http://www.tigertronics.com/rtx12.htm

If the distances aren't too far you might look at WiFi boxes with yagis on
each end.

There's lots of way to move data as you describe, and cell would be below
the bottom of my list to do it.

--s

--tr
"TheDoc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Wow.. really showing my ignorance of cell phone systems her.. !!!
>
> OK, well here is a more detailed description of the application..
>
> The current system is for remote data logging and control.
> I won't go into the details of what is monitored, but save to say that the
> data acquisition system is
> proprietary ( mine in this case ) and has been controlling and logging
data
> quite successfully for a couple of years.
>
> The most economical way at the time to do this was to couple a land line
to
> an embedded
> modem in the remote station and have it call the home station when it
needed
> to report any anomalous activity
> and to call it to read data and verify/control the the remote system.
>
> This works really well, does not require any third party accounts as the
> internet would, just TWO off the shelf modems,
> is quite secure and is well within the customer's budget.
>
> Now, I have another customer who requires this type of data collection and
> control, but he has no land line
> nor is he able to afford one ( the nearest Telco is too far to be
> economically viable, also there is no electricity supply,
> so this is a 100% solar operation )
> he does however have an almost line of sight path ( quasi, we have to
bounce
> the signal off a mountain or two !)
> to a sprint tower and the phone service is quite solid when using a small
> yagi. There is, unfortunately, no other service available.
>
> I am quite surprised by the replies to date, I do not believe that cell
> phones are such a step backwards...
> is this just a marketing ploy to increase revenue with "extra" gimmicks
that
> are already intrinsic to the system???
> I would have thought that if all transmissions are digital, it would be
real
> simple to send data as data and not
> encode speech to data and back again !!.??
>
> In that case, what then is a "data cable".. ?
>
> What I really need here is a detailed specification of the phone's
> capabilities and modes of operation.
> where might one obtain such a thing for sprint phones ( N400 in this case,
> although we could use any type )?
>
> please can anyone help here, or am I at a total loss ????
>
> If it really came to the crunch, I could always setup a form of analog
> modem, just like we used to do many years ago
> with the old POTS handsets..wow... that shows my age...!
> this is a low data rate system, megabits of data bandwidth is not
required,
> in fact, the system could tolerate a Baud rate as low as 30 Baud !!
>
>
> TIA..
>
>
>
>
>





.................................................................
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
>>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
-=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Well no it is not cellphones are a complete step backwards its just that
most providers do not make a business out of point to point connections
like that. You should look to see if you can get verizon because they have
some techs that can help with such a setup and still sell phones cable of
acting as modems. Sprintpcs pretty much discountinued their entire 2g
line. Now another thing you can look into is amps system, the old analog
network. It has been used for alot of location/monitoring services for
years and is still in operation for a few more. I would find out what
analog provider services your network area and talk with them about such a
setup. Also don't knock the internet option if you do not require basic AT
cmd interface to the modem (running a more modern pc or a pc/104+ that can
do usb acm ) vision is still a decent solution since you can form like I
suggested before point to point vpns. Since you are just polling every
once and awhile anyway you can have it do it at set intervals just making
sure the computers sync their clocks when they login to the internet each
time. This can be a little less complex then it seems and the sprintpcs
network isn't going anywhere soon like the older amps network will be.
First, and pardon me if you have, you did mention some information about
the area I would find out exactly what networks you can get since
sprintpcs and verizon usually share same tower and sometimes equipment via
roaming. Also if you can get actually networks of both and not just
someone they have as a roaming provider. After that I would find out who
provides the local analog network, usually you can just dial *611 on any
analog phone and get their operator and see what they will offer you.

I have my laptop hooked into my Startac and can do 14.4 Kbps calls to my
Cisco RAS server for ppp connection.
I can also dial some tty modems, setup for remote router control @9600 bps
( console speed of router ).

If the messages are really small, maybe SMS is the way to go for you.
Need to provide more info on amount and type of bandwidth you need. Is
latency an issue?
How much data are we talking about here?
20K, 1 Mb, 10 Mbs ?

Scotty


"TheDoc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Wow.. really showing my ignorance of cell phone systems her.. !!!
>
> OK, well here is a more detailed description of the application..
>
> The current system is for remote data logging and control.
> I won't go into the details of what is monitored, but save to say that the
> data acquisition system is
> proprietary ( mine in this case ) and has been controlling and logging
data
> quite successfully for a couple of years.
>
> The most economical way at the time to do this was to couple a land line
to
> an embedded
> modem in the remote station and have it call the home station when it
needed
> to report any anomalous activity
> and to call it to read data and verify/control the the remote system.
>
> This works really well, does not require any third party accounts as the
> internet would, just TWO off the shelf modems,
> is quite secure and is well within the customer's budget.
>
> Now, I have another customer who requires this type of data collection and
> control, but he has no land line
> nor is he able to afford one ( the nearest Telco is too far to be
> economically viable, also there is no electricity supply,
> so this is a 100% solar operation )
> he does however have an almost line of sight path ( quasi, we have to
bounce
> the signal off a mountain or two !)
> to a sprint tower and the phone service is quite solid when using a small
> yagi. There is, unfortunately, no other service available.
>
> I am quite surprised by the replies to date, I do not believe that cell
> phones are such a step backwards...
> is this just a marketing ploy to increase revenue with "extra" gimmicks
that
> are already intrinsic to the system???
> I would have thought that if all transmissions are digital, it would be
real
> simple to send data as data and not
> encode speech to data and back again !!.??
>
> In that case, what then is a "data cable".. ?
>
> What I really need here is a detailed specification of the phone's
> capabilities and modes of operation.
> where might one obtain such a thing for sprint phones ( N400 in this case,
> although we could use any type )?
>
> please can anyone help here, or am I at a total loss ????
>
> If it really came to the crunch, I could always setup a form of analog
> modem, just like we used to do many years ago
> with the old POTS handsets..wow... that shows my age...!
> this is a low data rate system, megabits of data bandwidth is not
required,
> in fact, the system could tolerate a Baud rate as low as 30 Baud !!
>
>
> TIA..
>
>
>
>
>

Good links!! :-)
You're right, if distance isn't too far, pay once and use the heck out of it
for free.
No usage charges.

Scotty


"tom ronson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why are you working this so hard to have cell phones part of the equation?
> Last I knew there's a wide range of radio modems to get a job like this
> done --- why not that route? Damned site cheaper than using cell, and all
of
> the gear will be under your control.
>
> for example:
>
> http://www.marinenet.net/Radio%20Modems.htm
>
> and
>
> http://www.tigertronics.com/rtx12.htm
>
> If the distances aren't too far you might look at WiFi boxes with yagis on
> each end.
>
> There's lots of way to move data as you describe, and cell would be below
> the bottom of my list to do it.
>
> --s
>
> --tr
> "TheDoc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Wow.. really showing my ignorance of cell phone systems her.. !!!
> >
> > OK, well here is a more detailed description of the application..
> >
> > The current system is for remote data logging and control.
> > I won't go into the details of what is monitored, but save to say that
the
> > data acquisition system is
> > proprietary ( mine in this case ) and has been controlling and logging
> data
> > quite successfully for a couple of years.
> >
> > The most economical way at the time to do this was to couple a land line
> to
> > an embedded
> > modem in the remote station and have it call the home station when it
> needed
> > to report any anomalous activity
> > and to call it to read data and verify/control the the remote system.
> >
> > This works really well, does not require any third party accounts as the
> > internet would, just TWO off the shelf modems,
> > is quite secure and is well within the customer's budget.
> >
> > Now, I have another customer who requires this type of data collection
and
> > control, but he has no land line
> > nor is he able to afford one ( the nearest Telco is too far to be
> > economically viable, also there is no electricity supply,
> > so this is a 100% solar operation )
> > he does however have an almost line of sight path ( quasi, we have to
> bounce
> > the signal off a mountain or two !)
> > to a sprint tower and the phone service is quite solid when using a
small
> > yagi. There is, unfortunately, no other service available.
> >
> > I am quite surprised by the replies to date, I do not believe that cell
> > phones are such a step backwards...
> > is this just a marketing ploy to increase revenue with "extra" gimmicks
> that
> > are already intrinsic to the system???
> > I would have thought that if all transmissions are digital, it would be
> real
> > simple to send data as data and not
> > encode speech to data and back again !!.??
> >
> > In that case, what then is a "data cable".. ?
> >
> > What I really need here is a detailed specification of the phone's
> > capabilities and modes of operation.
> > where might one obtain such a thing for sprint phones ( N400 in this
case,
> > although we could use any type )?
> >
> > please can anyone help here, or am I at a total loss ????
> >
> > If it really came to the crunch, I could always setup a form of analog
> > modem, just like we used to do many years ago
> > with the old POTS handsets..wow... that shows my age...!
> > this is a low data rate system, megabits of data bandwidth is not
> required,
> > in fact, the system could tolerate a Baud rate as low as 30 Baud !!
> >
> >
> > TIA..
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ................................................................
> Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
> -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
>

TheDoc wrote:

First off, using cellphones wouldn't be a good idea. You won't
be able to use the CDMA technology Sprint and Verizon use as
once the signal path exceeds something like five or six miles,
you'll get timing errors..its not an analog signal that's
digitally modulated (TDMA) that Cingular and AT&T use. Then
you have to pay outragious data connection fees.

Best bet with be a business band radio link using packet modems.
Google "packet radio" and you'll find a load of information.
A traditional "phone patch" would involve too much addtional
circuitry to be effective, but it can be done as I've had to
go that route in the past.

TheDoc wrote:

> Wow.. really showing my ignorance of cell phone systems her.. !!!
>
> OK, well here is a more detailed description of the application..
>
> The current system is for remote data logging and control.
> I won't go into the details of what is monitored, but save to say that the
> data acquisition system is
> proprietary ( mine in this case ) and has been controlling and logging data
> quite successfully for a couple of years.
>
> The most economical way at the time to do this was to couple a land line to
> an embedded
> modem in the remote station and have it call the home station when it needed
> to report any anomalous activity
> and to call it to read data and verify/control the the remote system.
>
> This works really well, does not require any third party accounts as the
> internet would, just TWO off the shelf modems,
> is quite secure and is well within the customer's budget.
>
> Now, I have another customer who requires this type of data collection and
> control, but he has no land line
> nor is he able to afford one ( the nearest Telco is too far to be
> economically viable, also there is no electricity supply,
> so this is a 100% solar operation )
> he does however have an almost line of sight path ( quasi, we have to bounce
> the signal off a mountain or two !)
> to a sprint tower and the phone service is quite solid when using a small
> yagi. There is, unfortunately, no other service available.
>
> I am quite surprised by the replies to date, I do not believe that cell
> phones are such a step backwards...
> is this just a marketing ploy to increase revenue with "extra" gimmicks that
> are already intrinsic to the system???
> I would have thought that if all transmissions are digital, it would be real
> simple to send data as data and not
> encode speech to data and back again !!.??
>
> In that case, what then is a "data cable".. ?
>
> What I really need here is a detailed specification of the phone's
> capabilities and modes of operation.
> where might one obtain such a thing for sprint phones ( N400 in this case,
> although we could use any type )?
>
> please can anyone help here, or am I at a total loss ????
>
> If it really came to the crunch, I could always setup a form of analog
> modem, just like we used to do many years ago
> with the old POTS handsets..wow... that shows my age...!
> this is a low data rate system, megabits of data bandwidth is not required,
> in fact, the system could tolerate a Baud rate as low as 30 Baud !!
>
>
> TIA..

Silly thoughts-
How about a data card?
What about morse code audio over a voice call?
Hook the Yagi to a Wifi card. If you've got some sort of line of sight,
you can handle some distance.
Can you do the whole thing with a smartphone? Hook your sensors right in
to that.
Get a two-way radio system and a packet modem.
Lasers. Mirrors. ???. Profit.
DTMF?
Long-Haul two wire modems?

Just curious as to what you wound up doing?

Scotty



"TheDoc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Wow.. really showing my ignorance of cell phone systems her.. !!!
>
> OK, well here is a more detailed description of the application..
>
> The current system is for remote data logging and control.
> I won't go into the details of what is monitored, but save to say that the
> data acquisition system is
> proprietary ( mine in this case ) and has been controlling and logging
data
> quite successfully for a couple of years.
>
> The most economical way at the time to do this was to couple a land line
to
> an embedded
> modem in the remote station and have it call the home station when it
needed
> to report any anomalous activity
> and to call it to read data and verify/control the the remote system.
>
> This works really well, does not require any third party accounts as the
> internet would, just TWO off the shelf modems,
> is quite secure and is well within the customer's budget.
>
> Now, I have another customer who requires this type of data collection and
> control, but he has no land line
> nor is he able to afford one ( the nearest Telco is too far to be
> economically viable, also there is no electricity supply,
> so this is a 100% solar operation )
> he does however have an almost line of sight path ( quasi, we have to
bounce
> the signal off a mountain or two !)
> to a sprint tower and the phone service is quite solid when using a small
> yagi. There is, unfortunately, no other service available.
>
> I am quite surprised by the replies to date, I do not believe that cell
> phones are such a step backwards...
> is this just a marketing ploy to increase revenue with "extra" gimmicks
that
> are already intrinsic to the system???
> I would have thought that if all transmissions are digital, it would be
real
> simple to send data as data and not
> encode speech to data and back again !!.??
>
> In that case, what then is a "data cable".. ?
>
> What I really need here is a detailed specification of the phone's
> capabilities and modes of operation.
> where might one obtain such a thing for sprint phones ( N400 in this case,
> although we could use any type )?
>
> please can anyone help here, or am I at a total loss ????
>
> If it really came to the crunch, I could always setup a form of analog
> modem, just like we used to do many years ago
> with the old POTS handsets..wow... that shows my age...!
> this is a low data rate system, megabits of data bandwidth is not
required,
> in fact, the system could tolerate a Baud rate as low as 30 Baud !!
>
>
> TIA..
>
>
>
>
>

JRW <no_addy@no_.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> TheDoc wrote:
>
> First off, using cellphones wouldn't be a good idea. You won't
> be able to use the CDMA technology Sprint and Verizon use as
> once the signal path exceeds something like five or six miles,
> you'll get timing errors..its not an analog signal that's
> digitally modulated (TDMA) that Cingular and AT&T use. Then
> you have to pay outragious data connection fees.

"... its not (CDMA) an analog signal that's digitally modulated
(TDMA)..."

What???

While you could argue for the fundamentally digital nature of quantum
mechanics, electromagnetic radiation itself is analog, regardless of
the analog or digital nature of any signal for which it might serve as
a carrier. While the electromagnetic carrier itself is analog, a
digital signal may be superimposed upon the carrier via the discrete
modulation (or keying) of various properties of the wave: amplitude,
frequency, phase, or a combination thereof. Both IS-136 TDMA &
IS-95/IS-2000 use a form of phase-shift keying (PSK). Therefore, CDMA
too uses "an analog signal that's digitally modulated," just like
TDMA.

Secondly, both CDMA 800 & CDMA 1900 can sucessfully propagate, both
forward & reverse-link, radial distances well exceeding five or six
miles. I have utilized CDMA 1900 signals at radial distances of
approximately 15 miles over relatively flat terrain. TDMA & GSM, on
the other hand, being time-division air-interfaces, do have more
compelling timing issues. Full-rate GSM, in particular, is limited to
a radial distance of about 35 Km.

Andrew
--
Andrew Shepherd
[email protected]
[email protected]
http://www.ku.edu/home/cinema/