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  1. #16
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    4phun wrote:

    > I think that with a low enough price point that unlimited becomes
    > useful for those who want to drop a landline and go all cellular all
    > the time.


    I find it amusing to see all the news reports of how the $99.99
    unlimited plan is a "price war." Yeah, it's a price war to get
    subscribers to increase their monthly expenditure for wireless.



    See More: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?




  2. #17
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> I find it amusing to see all the news reports of how the $99.99
    >> unlimited plan is a "price war." Yeah, it's a price war to get
    >> subscribers to increase their monthly expenditure for wireless.

    >
    > I work with a guy (salesman) who, last year, had a 2000 minute plan
    > (don't know with whom)--and every month he was 1000 minutes over.
    >
    > Let's see, that was probably a $125/month plan, and $0.25 overage, so he
    > was probably $375/month.
    >
    > No, I'd say plenty of people will eat this up.


    Yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of sales people that would benefit, but
    for the vast majority of subscribers, I don't believe that it's much of
    a deal.



  3. #18
    The Bob
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    SMS <[email protected]> amazed us all with the following in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    >> In article <[email protected]>,
    >> SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I find it amusing to see all the news reports of how the $99.99
    >>> unlimited plan is a "price war." Yeah, it's a price war to get
    >>> subscribers to increase their monthly expenditure for wireless.

    >>
    >> I work with a guy (salesman) who, last year, had a 2000 minute plan
    >> (don't know with whom)--and every month he was 1000 minutes over.
    >>
    >> Let's see, that was probably a $125/month plan, and $0.25 overage, so
    >> he was probably $375/month.
    >>
    >> No, I'd say plenty of people will eat this up.

    >
    > Yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of sales people that would benefit,
    > but for the vast majority of subscribers, I don't believe that it's
    > much of a deal.
    >


    The answer to this question is amazingly simple- look at ARPU for each
    carrier. With voice ARPU generally being in the $55-60 range, $100 users
    are going to represent the upper end of the scale. With the influx of
    lower creditworthy customers on all networks over the last three years,
    there will be more customers on the network below that line than above it.



  4. #19
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    At 21 Feb 2008 18:27:55 -0500 Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

    > > I find it amusing to see all the news reports of how the $99.99
    > > unlimited plan is a "price war." Yeah, it's a price war to get
    > > subscribers to increase their monthly expenditure for wireless.

    >
    > I work with a guy (salesman) who, last year, had a 2000 minute plan
    > (don't know with whom)--and every month he was 1000 minutes over.
    >
    > Let's see, that was probably a $125/month plan, and $0.25 overage, so he
    > was probably $375/month.
    >
    > No, I'd say plenty of people will eat this up.



    Agreed. My cousin, a consultant back east who uses 3000 or so daytime
    minutes a month is still on a grandfathered ATTWS GSM Charter plan (a $99
    unlimited plan they originally used to con suckers from switching from
    their excellent TDMA/analog network to their, at the time, very crummy GSM
    one.)

    Since the merger he's been stuck buying unlocked handsets to upgrade since
    the "new" AT&T can't sell him a subsidized phone that'll accept his blue
    "old" AT&T SIM, and won't switch him to a "new" orange AT&T SIM unless he
    takes a new plan.

    Ironically, I'll bet he'll probably switch to Ve izon- Verizon has a little
    better reception in his neighborhood, and he uses a Verizon EVDO laptop
    card for mobile data- it works on his boat, where the AT&T 3G card he tried
    first doesn't always reach- (apparently "Extended UMTS" didn't make it to
    Rhode Island!) ;-) IIRC, Verizon will knock the PC card rate down from
    $79 to $59 if you also have a voice plan. The $20 savings didn't justify
    dumping the AT&T Charter plan, but when Verizon offers the $99 unlimited,
    he can port over and save the $20/month on the data card.





  5. #20
    Kevin Weaver
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    Maybe he should try extended GSM.

    "Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > At 21 Feb 2008 18:27:55 -0500 Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    >
    >> > I find it amusing to see all the news reports of how the $99.99
    >> > unlimited plan is a "price war." Yeah, it's a price war to get
    >> > subscribers to increase their monthly expenditure for wireless.

    >>
    >> I work with a guy (salesman) who, last year, had a 2000 minute plan
    >> (don't know with whom)--and every month he was 1000 minutes over.
    >>
    >> Let's see, that was probably a $125/month plan, and $0.25 overage, so he
    >> was probably $375/month.
    >>
    >> No, I'd say plenty of people will eat this up.

    >
    >
    > Agreed. My cousin, a consultant back east who uses 3000 or so daytime
    > minutes a month is still on a grandfathered ATTWS GSM Charter plan (a $99
    > unlimited plan they originally used to con suckers from switching from
    > their excellent TDMA/analog network to their, at the time, very crummy GSM
    > one.)
    >
    > Since the merger he's been stuck buying unlocked handsets to upgrade since
    > the "new" AT&T can't sell him a subsidized phone that'll accept his blue
    > "old" AT&T SIM, and won't switch him to a "new" orange AT&T SIM unless he
    > takes a new plan.
    >
    > Ironically, I'll bet he'll probably switch to Ve izon- Verizon has a
    > little
    > better reception in his neighborhood, and he uses a Verizon EVDO laptop
    > card for mobile data- it works on his boat, where the AT&T 3G card he
    > tried
    > first doesn't always reach- (apparently "Extended UMTS" didn't make it to
    > Rhode Island!) ;-) IIRC, Verizon will knock the PC card rate down from
    > $79 to $59 if you also have a voice plan. The $20 savings didn't justify
    > dumping the AT&T Charter plan, but when Verizon offers the $99 unlimited,
    > he can port over and save the $20/month on the data card.
    >
    >





  6. #21
    M.L.
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    > Also, in natural disasters, often the wireless networks are overloaded
    > or go down, but landlines still work.


    Actually, just the opposite is true. Granted, as usual you showed an
    exception to the rule in order to pass it along as the rule. However,
    during most natural disasters it's the landlines that go down first.




  7. #22
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    Janet Wilder wrote:

    > Since so many of the people we call are also Verizon users, the IN
    > calling saves gallons of minutes. We hardly eat in to our paid minutes
    > with nights and weekends and IN. It would make no sense for us to go to
    > "unlimited"


    Yes, I have a feeling that between off-peak and MTM, very few
    subscribers will benefit from a move up to $100 unlimited, while nearly
    _all_ of the heavy users (not using smart phones) will move down to $100
    unlimited. I notice the same scenario as your's around here. Most of my
    relatives, friends, and co-workers have Verizon so I don't even use up
    my measly 300 peak minutes.

    The carriers also better hope that the heavy users don't find out about
    the ways to get unlimited use at much lower cost. PagePlus offers
    unlimited for about $75 per month, and that $75 isn't burdened with
    extra fees and taxes like the $100 unlimited plans are. With Sprint and
    Voicestick, unlimited is $52 plus taxes and fees paid to Sprint, and
    Voicestick offers a lot of other advantages as well.



  8. #23
    George
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    SMS wrote:
    > 4phun wrote:
    >
    >> I think that with a low enough price point that unlimited becomes
    >> useful for those who want to drop a landline and go all cellular all
    >> the time.

    >
    > Yeah, unless: a) you want to have DSL, in which case you may as well get
    > a landline anyway since the price difference between naked DSL and DSL
    > plus a landline is minimal, and b) you have kids or seniors that need
    > the 911 service of a landline.
    >
    > Also, in natural disasters, often the wireless networks are overloaded
    > or go down, but landlines still work. During the bad hurricane season a
    > few years ago, we also saw that a lot of wireless sites had no back-up
    > generator, only batteries, so they went down pretty quickly. Cingular
    > had 25% of their sites with generators (according to their own press
    > release), while Verizon had 80% with back up power (Verizon claims to
    > have a generator at every site where they are allowed to have one).
    > Cingular's goal is to have enough sites up to provide complete coverage,
    > but to sacrifice capacity, "We will sacrifice the capacity piece to try
    > to attain blanket coverage as much as possible."
    >
    > "http://telephonyonline.com/mag/telecom_signal_end_storm/"
    > "http://news.vzw.com/news/2006/03/pr2006-04-04a.html"
    >


    I bet many people don't realize how Mickey Mouse some carriers are.
    Tmobile doesn't believe in generators and at least in my area the old
    AT&T TDMA/analog sites had generators but now the GSM stuff just has
    battery.



  9. #24
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    George wrote:

    > I bet many people don't realize how Mickey Mouse some carriers are.
    > Tmobile doesn't believe in generators and at least in my area the old
    > AT&T TDMA/analog sites had generators but now the GSM stuff just has
    > battery.


    Verizon claims to have generators at every site where generators are
    permitted (80%). AT&T claims to have generators at enough sites to
    provide complete geographic coverage, but at reduced capacity. This may
    be why Verizon tends to do better in blackouts and other disasters where
    power is interrupted.

    I couldn't find any information on Sprint and T-Mobile's back-up power
    infrastructure, other than Sprint's press release of installing
    generators at some sites in Florida and Texas. Just looking at some of
    the strange places that Sprint and T-Mobile have had to install sites in
    order to get complete coverage, where generators aren't allowed, there
    is just no way they could equal the AT&T and Verizon coverage in a
    prolonged blackout.



  10. #25
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Yes, I have a feeling that between off-peak and MTM, very few
    >> subscribers will benefit from a move up to $100 unlimited, while nearly
    >> _all_ of the heavy users (not using smart phones) will move down to $100
    >> unlimited.

    >
    > I can see the carriers dramatically changing the non-unlimited plans,
    > making them very expensive relative to the unlimited plans. They could
    > also reduce/eliminate off-peak and MTM. The idea would be to move
    > people off their $70/mo plans and up to the $100/mo plan (plus
    > "regulatory fee recovery" charges, natch).
    >
    > On the flip side, it moves many over to the prepaid side of the house in
    > one way or another--which is no doubt what the big carriers want.
    >
    > It'll just turn into an even clearer definition between prepaid and
    > contract, that's all.


    Yeah, so far the carriers seem to have been willing to continue the
    contract terms of the original contract on a continuing basis, even
    though they really aren't required to do so. I'm keeping my
    grandfathered plan simply because if I drop it I can never get by 8:01
    p.m. off-peak back, nor can I get back off-network roaming, nor can I
    get my sub-$30 monthly cost back.

    At some point the carriers may tire of continuing to provide service to
    those of us with those $30 ARPUs. They can also decide to cut off the
    low-priced MVNOs to eliminate that escape route for those that don't
    want to spend a lot.



  11. #26
    Richard B. Gilbert
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    M.L. wrote:
    >> Also, in natural disasters, often the wireless networks are overloaded
    >> or go down, but landlines still work.

    >
    >
    > Actually, just the opposite is true. Granted, as usual you showed an
    > exception to the rule in order to pass it along as the rule. However,
    > during most natural disasters it's the landlines that go down first.


    Don't cell phones eventually connect via landlines? It seems to me that
    it's cell phone to tower by air, tower to central office by wire,
    Central office to central office by wire, central office to tower by
    wire and tower to cell by air. For wire, you may substitute fiber
    optics, if the local phone company is REALLY up-to-date.




  12. #27
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    > M.L. wrote:
    >>> Also, in natural disasters, often the wireless networks are overloaded
    >>> or go down, but landlines still work.

    >>
    >>
    >> Actually, just the opposite is true. Granted, as usual you showed an
    >> exception to the rule in order to pass it along as the rule. However,
    >> during most natural disasters it's the landlines that go down first.

    >
    > Don't cell phones eventually connect via landlines? It seems to me that
    > it's cell phone to tower by air, tower to central office by wire,
    > Central office to central office by wire, central office to tower by
    > wire and tower to cell by air. For wire, you may substitute fiber
    > optics, if the local phone company is REALLY up-to-date.


    Yes, this is why landlines are usually more reliable in the event of a
    natural disaster (unless of course the wire to your house is knocked down).



  13. #28
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    At 22 Feb 2008 06:36:09 -0800 SMS wrote:

    > Yes, I have a feeling that between off-peak and MTM, very few
    > subscribers will benefit from a move up to $100 unlimited, while nearly
    > _all_ of the heavy users (not using smart phones) will move down to
    > $100 unlimited.


    But, to be fair, Mrs. Verizon didn't raise any stupid children. While we
    all probably know a guy who knows a guy who uses a jillion minutes and
    spends $654/month, the reality is those customers are very rare, and
    lowering their rate to $99 won't noticably affect ARPU, even if they don't
    con folks like you or I into upgraging to the unlimited plan.

    I agree with George, however, that the bigger fear will be further plan
    consolidation. In the last couple of years w 've seen the virtual
    elimination of the $30 and $35 price point, so $40 is now "entry level" for
    wireless. How soon before they have only have 2 plans? Say, $50 for 1000
    minutes, and $100 for unlimited. It's a slow but standard pattern in
    wireless- make a mid-tier plan a "good value," then use it's heavy adoption
    as the excuse to drop the low end plan because "no one was taking it
    anyway."


    > The carriers also better hope that the heavy users don't find out
    > about the ways to get unlimited use at much lower cost.


    They won't care- they'll just find ways to plug the holes if they become a
    problem.

    > PagePlus offers unlimited for about $75 per month, and that $75 isn't
    > burdened with extra fees and taxes like the $100 unlimited plans are.


    It's also not burdened with being easy to find, buy or refill! ;-)

    I can see the Fortune 500 company meeting right now... "Johnson, be sure
    to hand out the PagePlus refill cards to the Senior VPs- we don't want
    their service suspended during the annual meeting in Houston next week!!!
    And check eBay again- that 'new' RAZR you obtained for the CFO was pink and
    covered with 'Hello Kitty' stickers and he's feeling a little silly having
    to talk on it in front of the board!"

    > With Sprint and Voicestick, unlimited is $52 plus taxes and fees paid
    > to Sprint, and Voicestick offers a lot of other advantages as well.



    Too much hassle for most people, and doubles the chance of a service
    problem whenever two companies are involved. Voicestick is a fine outfit
    for a two-bit VoIP, but when's the last time your cellphone company e-
    mailed you to warn you of a five-hour complete system outage so they can
    install a new server? I got one from Voicestick in December, with the
    outage scheduled in the early morning one week before Christmas!
    I don't mind messing with VoIP to avoid a real screwing, like international
    roaming or LD, but it's too flakey or too much work, IMO, to mess around
    with to save a few bucks on my cellular bill.





  14. #29
    George
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    SMS wrote:
    > George wrote:
    >
    >> I bet many people don't realize how Mickey Mouse some carriers are.
    >> Tmobile doesn't believe in generators and at least in my area the old
    >> AT&T TDMA/analog sites had generators but now the GSM stuff just has
    >> battery.

    >
    > Verizon claims to have generators at every site where generators are
    > permitted (80%). AT&T claims to have generators at enough sites to
    > provide complete geographic coverage, but at reduced capacity. This may
    > be why Verizon tends to do better in blackouts and other disasters where
    > power is interrupted.
    >
    > I couldn't find any information on Sprint and T-Mobile's back-up power
    > infrastructure, other than Sprint's press release of installing
    > generators at some sites in Florida and Texas. Just looking at some of
    > the strange places that Sprint and T-Mobile have had to install sites in
    > order to get complete coverage, where generators aren't allowed, there
    > is just no way they could equal the AT&T and Verizon coverage in a
    > prolonged blackout.


    Sprint and tmobile have connectors on their equipment so a portable
    generator can be connected. They do this even when generators are
    allowed. There is a colo site behind a place that I frequently visit.
    VZW, Sprint, AT&T, Nextel and tmobile are on it. The only generator
    there is for the VZW equipment. According to the Sprint guy I bumped
    into one time they have 4 trailer mounted generators to cover their
    local 30,000 square mile market and they are located over an hour's
    drive from here.



  15. #30
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: How many users actually benefit from $99 unlimited?

    Todd Allcock wrote:

    > I can see the Fortune 500 company meeting right now... "Johnson, be sure
    > to hand out the PagePlus refill cards to the Senior VPs- we don't want
    > their service suspended during the annual meeting in Houston next week!!!
    > And check eBay again- that 'new' RAZR you obtained for the CFO was pink and
    > covered with 'Hello Kitty' stickers and he's feeling a little silly having
    > to talk on it in front of the board!"


    LOL, well in a large corporation they have a telecommunications
    department that would handle billing and equpment issues, and presumably
    they'd be able to ensure that all the phones were operational. There are
    no physical refill cards to hand out, and when on the unlimited plan
    there is no worry about someone running out of minutes.

    One thing that was interesting that I saw on UglyEric.com was "WARNING:
    Verizon Inpulse Motorola W385 usually will not work. All other Inpulse
    phones work fine."

    If this is true, then all those phones sold at Walgreen's, Wal-Mart,
    etc., will work fine.

    > Too much hassle for most people, and doubles the chance of a service
    > problem whenever two companies are involved. Voicestick is a fine outfit
    > for a two-bit VoIP, but when's the last time your cellphone company e-
    > mailed you to warn you of a five-hour complete system outage so they can
    > install a new server? I got one from Voicestick in December, with the
    > outage scheduled in the early morning one week before Christmas!
    > I don't mind messing with VoIP to avoid a real screwing, like international
    > roaming or LD, but it's too flakey or too much work, IMO, to mess around
    > with to save a few bucks on my cellular bill.


    Perhaps, though I've experienced AT&T outages as well, especially with
    their conference call services.

    These new unlimited plans seem to be targeted at casual users, not
    corporate users, because they exclude smartphones, iPhones,
    Blackberry's, etc.





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