Qwest Wireless Developments

Today, Qwest Wireless began advertising new, "Unlimited" plans (for
$50). They include all of Qwest's network instead of just each
individual market.

Will this be a snazzy way to get an Unlimited plan on the Sprint PCS
network? I posed that question to Qwest Wireless, and they were
woefully ignorant about Qwest's upcoming relationship with Sprint PCS.

It seems the news reports about Qwest moving its customers to Sprint was
somewhat miss-worded. The new Unlimited plans are clearly limited to
"the Qwest Wireless network" (as shown on their TV spots), and one can
sign up for a 2-year contract for that service. Qwest appears to be
maintaining their own wireless network for at least that long.

If this is so, this is good news for customers: Qwest will remain a
competitor, and Sprint will only handle off-network roaming for Qwest
users. Sprint users won't suddenly get capacity problems with bunches
of new Qwest phones appearing. Sprint does get some new roaming
revenue.

This seems to be more in line with what we expected. Qwest still has
the intention of offering Qwest-branded wireless service to business
customers outside of their own markets, and that service will most
likely will be delivered by Sprint.

-Bill Radio

Western U.S. Wireless Reviews & Ratings:
http://www.MountainWireless.com






[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

---

› See More: Qwest Wireless Developments

How will Qwest's customers be able to use Vision unless they move their
customers over to Sprint's system? Wasn't this one of the reasons this
deal was made? I thought that all of Qwest's customers were going to be
switched over to Sprint so they could use the data services and be more
competitive. That's the way the articles led us to believe.

--
-Larry
Sprint user since 1997



[email protected] (Bill Radio) wrote in article
<[email protected]>:
> Today, Qwest Wireless began advertising new, "Unlimited" plans (for
> $50). They include all of Qwest's network instead of just each
> individual market.
>
> Will this be a snazzy way to get an Unlimited plan on the Sprint PCS
> network? I posed that question to Qwest Wireless, and they were
> woefully ignorant about Qwest's upcoming relationship with Sprint PCS.
>
> It seems the news reports about Qwest moving its customers to Sprint was
> somewhat miss-worded. The new Unlimited plans are clearly limited to
> "the Qwest Wireless network" (as shown on their TV spots), and one can
> sign up for a 2-year contract for that service. Qwest appears to be
> maintaining their own wireless network for at least that long.
>
> If this is so, this is good news for customers: Qwest will remain a
> competitor, and Sprint will only handle off-network roaming for Qwest
> users. Sprint users won't suddenly get capacity problems with bunches
> of new Qwest phones appearing. Sprint does get some new roaming
> revenue.
>
> This seems to be more in line with what we expected. Qwest still has
> the intention of offering Qwest-branded wireless service to business
> customers outside of their own markets, and that service will most
> likely will be delivered by Sprint.
>
> -Bill Radio
>
> Western U.S. Wireless Reviews & Ratings:
> http://www.MountainWireless.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

Larry,
Much of this is yet to be official. It hasn't been plastered in every
newspaper and TV station in M/SP (Qwest's Call Center that I always
get), like it has been in Denver. So this doesn't make sense to them
because of the new plans being introduced.

The simplest way to make this work is to add Sprint PCS to the Qwest PRL
(it probably already is), and just program the billing computer to
include calls on Sprint to go toward your Qwest plan.

As far as using Vision, would it also be simple to forward a Qwest user
over to Sprint when using Vision? That's another reason to make the two
networks either use some of the same sites. And couldn't a Qwest user
just have their Vision access be routed from a Qwest tower to the Sprint
switch?

When Qwest signs up a (business) customer in a non-Qwest city, say NYC,
the PRL will find Sprint and will carry the call as part of the plan.
Hopefully, Sprint will configure calls to 611 to go to Qwest CS. Qwest
has bunches of business and LD customers outside of their 14-state
territory and it is these who they want to gain as part of their service
bundles.

-Bill Radio

Western U.S. Wireless Reviews & Ratings:
http://www.MountainWireless.com


[email protected] (Larry Thomas) wrote in article
<[email protected]>:
> How will Qwest's customers be able to use Vision unless they move their
> customers over to Sprint's system? Wasn't this one of the reasons this
> deal was made? I thought that all of Qwest's customers were going to be
> switched over to Sprint so they could use the data services and be more
> competitive. That's the way the articles led us to believe.







[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

Qwest is trying very hard to sell the network assets in one piece.
And if they can't they will break it up and sell the PCS liscenses
and equipment. Most of the Lucent CDMA equipment is 6-7 years
old and can no longer be software upgraded like the Flexent
platform can be. There is going to be a very thin profit margin for
Qwest's customer's on Sprint's network.
Qwest isn't going to run the network very long without revenue offsetting
the expenses. Very soon afterwards they'll dismantle it if they have to.
Qwest only has to give 1 month notice to landlords where the cell equipment
is located. It works both ways though. Qwest Wireless having their own
wireless network is a thing of the past.


Bill Radio wrote:

> Today, Qwest Wireless began advertising new, "Unlimited" plans (for
> $50). They include all of Qwest's network instead of just each
> individual market.
>
> Will this be a snazzy way to get an Unlimited plan on the Sprint PCS
> network? I posed that question to Qwest Wireless, and they were
> woefully ignorant about Qwest's upcoming relationship with Sprint PCS.
>
> It seems the news reports about Qwest moving its customers to Sprint was
> somewhat miss-worded. The new Unlimited plans are clearly limited to
> "the Qwest Wireless network" (as shown on their TV spots), and one can
> sign up for a 2-year contract for that service. Qwest appears to be
> maintaining their own wireless network for at least that long.
>
> If this is so, this is good news for customers: Qwest will remain a
> competitor, and Sprint will only handle off-network roaming for Qwest
> users. Sprint users won't suddenly get capacity problems with bunches
> of new Qwest phones appearing. Sprint does get some new roaming
> revenue.
>
> This seems to be more in line with what we expected. Qwest still has
> the intention of offering Qwest-branded wireless service to business
> customers outside of their own markets, and that service will most
> likely will be delivered by Sprint.
>
> -Bill Radio
>
> Western U.S. Wireless Reviews & Ratings:
> http://www.MountainWireless.com
>
> [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

I still say there has to be more to this. Sprint reached a deal with
their affiliate Ubiquitel PCS to take over the Montana market
themselves. They made this announcement just a day or two after the
Qwest deal was official. This has to mean that Qwest coverage in Montana
will be converted to Sprint service.

As far as a Qwest user having their Vision access be routed from a Qwest
tower to the Sprint switch seems a little complicated to me. I wasn't
aware that it could be done like that. But I suppose anything is
possible

I just hope that us Sprint users will benefit from this deal by having
new coverage in Qwest markets like Wyoming, Montana, and the Dakotas. If
not then it will certainly be a big disappointment to some of us.


--
-Larry
Sprint user since 1997



[email protected] (Bill Radio) wrote in article
<[email protected]>:
> Larry,
> Much of this is yet to be official. It hasn't been plastered in every
> newspaper and TV station in M/SP (Qwest's Call Center that I always
> get), like it has been in Denver. So this doesn't make sense to them
> because of the new plans being introduced.
>
> The simplest way to make this work is to add Sprint PCS to the Qwest PRL
> (it probably already is), and just program the billing computer to
> include calls on Sprint to go toward your Qwest plan.
>
> As far as using Vision, would it also be simple to forward a Qwest user
> over to Sprint when using Vision? That's another reason to make the two
> networks either use some of the same sites. And couldn't a Qwest user
> just have their Vision access be routed from a Qwest tower to the Sprint
> switch?
>
> When Qwest signs up a (business) customer in a non-Qwest city, say NYC,
> the PRL will find Sprint and will carry the call as part of the plan.
> Hopefully, Sprint will configure calls to 611 to go to Qwest CS. Qwest
> has bunches of business and LD customers outside of their 14-state
> territory and it is these who they want to gain as part of their service
> bundles.
>
> -Bill Radio
>
> Western U.S. Wireless Reviews & Ratings:
> http://www.MountainWireless.com
>
>
> [email protected] (Larry Thomas) wrote in article
> <[email protected]>:
> > How will Qwest's customers be able to use Vision unless they move their
> > customers over to Sprint's system? Wasn't this one of the reasons this
> > deal was made? I thought that all of Qwest's customers were going to be
> > switched over to Sprint so they could use the data services and be more
> > competitive. That's the way the articles led us to believe.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

Sprint is taking over Qwest's cell sites in Montana, Wyoming and
the Dakotas. Currently there is obsolete Ericsson equipment at
these locations. In Montana Qwest had a joint venture with
Touch America.



Larry Thomas wrote:

> I still say there has to be more to this. Sprint reached a deal with
> their affiliate Ubiquitel PCS to take over the Montana market
> themselves. They made this announcement just a day or two after the
> Qwest deal was official. This has to mean that Qwest coverage in Montana
> will be converted to Sprint service.
>
> As far as a Qwest user having their Vision access be routed from a Qwest
> tower to the Sprint switch seems a little complicated to me. I wasn't
> aware that it could be done like that. But I suppose anything is
> possible
>
> I just hope that us Sprint users will benefit from this deal by having
> new coverage in Qwest markets like Wyoming, Montana, and the Dakotas. If
> not then it will certainly be a big disappointment to some of us.
>
> --
> -Larry
> Sprint user since 1997
>
> [email protected] (Bill Radio) wrote in article
> <[email protected]>:
> > Larry,
> > Much of this is yet to be official. It hasn't been plastered in every
> > newspaper and TV station in M/SP (Qwest's Call Center that I always
> > get), like it has been in Denver. So this doesn't make sense to them
> > because of the new plans being introduced.
> >
> > The simplest way to make this work is to add Sprint PCS to the Qwest PRL
> > (it probably already is), and just program the billing computer to
> > include calls on Sprint to go toward your Qwest plan.
> >
> > As far as using Vision, would it also be simple to forward a Qwest user
> > over to Sprint when using Vision? That's another reason to make the two
> > networks either use some of the same sites. And couldn't a Qwest user
> > just have their Vision access be routed from a Qwest tower to the Sprint
> > switch?
> >
> > When Qwest signs up a (business) customer in a non-Qwest city, say NYC,
> > the PRL will find Sprint and will carry the call as part of the plan.
> > Hopefully, Sprint will configure calls to 611 to go to Qwest CS. Qwest
> > has bunches of business and LD customers outside of their 14-state
> > territory and it is these who they want to gain as part of their service
> > bundles.
> >
> > -Bill Radio
> >
> > Western U.S. Wireless Reviews & Ratings:
> > http://www.MountainWireless.com
> >
> >
> > [email protected] (Larry Thomas) wrote in article
> > <[email protected]>:
> > > How will Qwest's customers be able to use Vision unless they move their
> > > customers over to Sprint's system? Wasn't this one of the reasons this
> > > deal was made? I thought that all of Qwest's customers were going to be
> > > switched over to Sprint so they could use the data services and be more
> > > competitive. That's the way the articles led us to believe.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]
>
> [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

That's what I figured would/will happen but how do you know this for
sure? Others are claiming this might not be decided yet.

--
-Larry
Sprint user since 1997



nospam <[email protected]> wrote in article
<[email protected]>:
> Sprint is taking over Qwest's cell sites in Montana, Wyoming and
> the Dakotas. Currently there is obsolete Ericsson equipment at
> these locations. In Montana Qwest had a joint venture with
> Touch America.


[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

>
> Bill Radio wrote:
>
> > Today, Qwest Wireless began advertising new, "Unlimited" plans (for
> > $50). They include all of Qwest's network instead of just each
> > individual market.

Qwests website is slightly uninformative. A csr today told me,
"Local Unlimited" $50 is local only but includes 1 hour of Sprint
roaming.
And the "Anytime Unlimited" $80 includes all of their markets (in the
14 states)
and one hour of sprint roaming

He said the first or middle of Sept. they will be announcing new plans
that include more roaming. How much 'more' means, is anyones guess.

> > Will this be a snazzy way to get an Unlimited plan on the Sprint PCS
> > network?

I hope so. You would get the best of both worlds, unlim Sprint roaming
and, at least in my case, WAY BETTER LOCAL Denver coverage. I don't
think Sprint comes close to Qwests local Denver coverage.

> > It seems the news reports about Qwest moving its customers to Sprint was
> > somewhat miss-worded. The new Unlimited plans are clearly limited to
> > "the Qwest Wireless network" (as shown on their TV spots), and one can
> > sign up for a 2-year contract for that service. Qwest appears to be
> > maintaining their own wireless network for at least that long.
> >
> > If this is so, this is good news for customers: Qwest will remain a
> > competitor, and Sprint will only handle off-network roaming for Qwest
> > users. Sprint users won't suddenly get capacity problems with bunches
> > of new Qwest phones appearing. Sprint does get some new roaming
> > revenue.
> >

Bro,
Since I posted that, more than one Qwest 'insider' has emailed me to add
more credible details.
-All Qwest Wireless customers ARE moving to Sprint PCS.
-They do intend to support Unlimited plans as long as the contract,
regardless of network.
-Sprint will take over (purchase?) several Qwest cell sites, presumably
those where Sprint has no presence (MT, WY-but no Dakotas), so they can
maintain current Qwest customers.
-Qwest intends to use its existing PCS network for something else. My guess
is a wi-fi-type hot spot access.

On one point I will agree, in some locations in Colorado, Qwest's network is
vastly superior. My office is one location, and if I were a Qwest customer,
and was forced over to the Sprint network, I would terminate service,
because Sprint doesn't work there. It would be a shame to lose some of the
unique Qwest sites like Granby and Conifer, but you do gain others with
Sprint.

I get the idea from these 'insiders' that they too will sign up for these
'unlimted' plans right before they migrate to Sprint. I am told the $50
plan now includes all Qwest markets, and the $80 plan includes LD. Qwest
charges .25/min. for LD on the $50 plans, and Sprint handles the calls (and
always has). Surprising in that Qwest is an LD carrier themselves! All
their plans seem to be evolving daily.

I haven't looked today, but Qwest Wireless's web site hasn't been available
for almost a month. Bad show, guys!

-Bill



"bro" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Qwests website is slightly uninformative. A csr today told me,
> "Local Unlimited" $50 is local only but includes 1 hour of Sprint
> roaming.
> And the "Anytime Unlimited" $80 includes all of their markets (in the
> 14 states)
> and one hour of sprint roaming
>
> He said the first or middle of Sept. they will be announcing new plans
> that include more roaming. How much 'more' means, is anyones guess.

Bill, I can access the website just fine!
If its not working still, try using a different DNS server or ISP, as the
one you are on might not have the current IP address correct..

"Bill Radio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bro,
> Since I posted that, more than one Qwest 'insider' has emailed me to add
> more credible details.
> -All Qwest Wireless customers ARE moving to Sprint PCS.
> -They do intend to support Unlimited plans as long as the contract,
> regardless of network.
> -Sprint will take over (purchase?) several Qwest cell sites, presumably
> those where Sprint has no presence (MT, WY-but no Dakotas), so they can
> maintain current Qwest customers.
> -Qwest intends to use its existing PCS network for something else. My
guess
> is a wi-fi-type hot spot access.
>
> On one point I will agree, in some locations in Colorado, Qwest's network
is
> vastly superior. My office is one location, and if I were a Qwest
customer,
> and was forced over to the Sprint network, I would terminate service,
> because Sprint doesn't work there. It would be a shame to lose some of
the
> unique Qwest sites like Granby and Conifer, but you do gain others with
> Sprint.
>
> I get the idea from these 'insiders' that they too will sign up for these
> 'unlimted' plans right before they migrate to Sprint. I am told the $50
> plan now includes all Qwest markets, and the $80 plan includes LD. Qwest
> charges .25/min. for LD on the $50 plans, and Sprint handles the calls
(and
> always has). Surprising in that Qwest is an LD carrier themselves! All
> their plans seem to be evolving daily.
>
> I haven't looked today, but Qwest Wireless's web site hasn't been
available
> for almost a month. Bad show, guys!
>
> -Bill
>
>
>
> "bro" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Qwests website is slightly uninformative. A csr today told me,
> > "Local Unlimited" $50 is local only but includes 1 hour of Sprint
> > roaming.
> > And the "Anytime Unlimited" $80 includes all of their markets (in the
> > 14 states)
> > and one hour of sprint roaming
> >
> > He said the first or middle of Sept. they will be announcing new plans
> > that include more roaming. How much 'more' means, is anyones guess.
>
>
>

> I hope so. You would get the best of both worlds, unlim Sprint
> roaming
> and, at least in my case, WAY BETTER LOCAL Denver coverage. I don't
> think Sprint comes close to Qwests local Denver coverage.
>

Not too suprising ... seems like carriers do really well in their own
stomping grounds. I wonder why?

I take it qwest has an aging 2G network thats falling apart .. ?

--
Posted at SprintUsers.com - Your place for everything Sprint PCS
Free wireless access @ www.SprintUsers.com/wap

Qwest is actually pretty damn good in all of their "major markets"..
Minneapolis, Spokane, Seattle/Tacoma, Portland, Phoenix, Denver, etc..

I'm nearly willing to bet they beat the pants off of Sprint totally in every
one of the major markets their network is in. Including voice quality.
Qwest's network seems to have much more reliable voice quality (less
choppyness, and garbles) than Sprint does.

Yes, their network is still 2G CDMAOne (Lucent equip.).

"Maokh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > I hope so. You would get the best of both worlds, unlim Sprint
> > roaming
> > and, at least in my case, WAY BETTER LOCAL Denver coverage. I don't
> > think Sprint comes close to Qwests local Denver coverage.
> >
>
> Not too suprising ... seems like carriers do really well in their own
> stomping grounds. I wonder why?
>
> I take it qwest has an aging 2G network thats falling apart .. ?
>
> --
> Posted at SprintUsers.com - Your place for everything Sprint PCS
> Free wireless access @ www.SprintUsers.com/wap
>

I have yet to see Qwest win any kind of award for any of their markets.
I also doubt they are better than Sprint in any of their markets. They
have not been expanding and adding new sites like Sprint has plus they
have been losing customers. The only advantage I see them having is very
few people using the system so less capacity issues which can lead to
better voice quality in some areas.

--
-Larry
Sprint user since 1997



"Sterling" <[email protected]> wrote in article
<[email protected]>:
> Qwest is actually pretty damn good in all of their "major markets"..
> Minneapolis, Spokane, Seattle/Tacoma, Portland, Phoenix, Denver, etc..
>
> I'm nearly willing to bet they beat the pants off of Sprint totally in every
> one of the major markets their network is in. Including voice quality.
> Qwest's network seems to have much more reliable voice quality (less
> choppyness, and garbles) than Sprint does.
>
> Yes, their network is still 2G CDMAOne (Lucent equip.).
>
> "Maokh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > I hope so. You would get the best of both worlds, unlim Sprint
> > > roaming
> > > and, at least in my case, WAY BETTER LOCAL Denver coverage. I don't
> > > think Sprint comes close to Qwests local Denver coverage.
> > >
> >
> > Not too suprising ... seems like carriers do really well in their own
> > stomping grounds. I wonder why?
> >
> > I take it qwest has an aging 2G network thats falling apart .. ?
> >
> > --
> > Posted at SprintUsers.com - Your place for everything Sprint PCS
> > Free wireless access @ www.SprintUsers.com/wap
> >
>
>

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

It was USWest Wireless before Qwest ever had it, they had been built out for
years before the Qwest merger... and didn't really miss many areas. Qwest
Wireless is continue to buildout cells for a while after the merger, only
within the last couple of years had they kinda left the network alone.
I'd invite you to take a Qwest and a Sprint PCS phone out to Seattle
sometime and compare both one on one. Qwest's got a pretty damn good
network, and it's a shame that the company had to get ruined by their
ex-CEO.

"Larry Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have yet to see Qwest win any kind of award for any of their markets.
> I also doubt they are better than Sprint in any of their markets. They
> have not been expanding and adding new sites like Sprint has plus they
> have been losing customers. The only advantage I see them having is very
> few people using the system so less capacity issues which can lead to
> better voice quality in some areas.
>
> --
> -Larry
> Sprint user since 1997
>
>
>
> "Sterling" <[email protected]> wrote in article
> <[email protected]>:
> > Qwest is actually pretty damn good in all of their "major markets"..
> > Minneapolis, Spokane, Seattle/Tacoma, Portland, Phoenix, Denver, etc..
> >
> > I'm nearly willing to bet they beat the pants off of Sprint totally in
every
> > one of the major markets their network is in. Including voice quality.
> > Qwest's network seems to have much more reliable voice quality (less
> > choppyness, and garbles) than Sprint does.
> >
> > Yes, their network is still 2G CDMAOne (Lucent equip.).
> >
> > "Maokh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > > I hope so. You would get the best of both worlds, unlim Sprint
> > > > roaming
> > > > and, at least in my case, WAY BETTER LOCAL Denver coverage. I don't
> > > > think Sprint comes close to Qwests local Denver coverage.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Not too suprising ... seems like carriers do really well in their own
> > > stomping grounds. I wonder why?
> > >
> > > I take it qwest has an aging 2G network thats falling apart .. ?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Posted at SprintUsers.com - Your place for everything Sprint PCS
> > > Free wireless access @ www.SprintUsers.com/wap
> > >
> >
> >
>
> [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

Very true. You sound like you're an employee.



Sterling wrote:

> It was USWest Wireless before Qwest ever had it, they had been built out for
> years before the Qwest merger... and didn't really miss many areas. Qwest
> Wireless is continue to buildout cells for a while after the merger, only
> within the last couple of years had they kinda left the network alone.
> I'd invite you to take a Qwest and a Sprint PCS phone out to Seattle
> sometime and compare both one on one. Qwest's got a pretty damn good
> network, and it's a shame that the company had to get ruined by their
> ex-CEO.
>
> "Larry Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I have yet to see Qwest win any kind of award for any of their markets.
> > I also doubt they are better than Sprint in any of their markets. They
> > have not been expanding and adding new sites like Sprint has plus they
> > have been losing customers. The only advantage I see them having is very
> > few people using the system so less capacity issues which can lead to
> > better voice quality in some areas.
> >
> > --
> > -Larry
> > Sprint user since 1997
> >
> >
> >
> > "Sterling" <[email protected]> wrote in article
> > <[email protected]>:
> > > Qwest is actually pretty damn good in all of their "major markets"..
> > > Minneapolis, Spokane, Seattle/Tacoma, Portland, Phoenix, Denver, etc..
> > >
> > > I'm nearly willing to bet they beat the pants off of Sprint totally in
> every
> > > one of the major markets their network is in. Including voice quality.
> > > Qwest's network seems to have much more reliable voice quality (less
> > > choppyness, and garbles) than Sprint does.
> > >
> > > Yes, their network is still 2G CDMAOne (Lucent equip.).
> > >
> > > "Maokh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > > I hope so. You would get the best of both worlds, unlim Sprint
> > > > > roaming
> > > > > and, at least in my case, WAY BETTER LOCAL Denver coverage. I don't
> > > > > think Sprint comes close to Qwests local Denver coverage.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not too suprising ... seems like carriers do really well in their own
> > > > stomping grounds. I wonder why?
> > > >
> > > > I take it qwest has an aging 2G network thats falling apart .. ?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Posted at SprintUsers.com - Your place for everything Sprint PCS
> > > > Free wireless access @ www.SprintUsers.com/wap
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]