Results 31 to 39 of 39
- 10-08-2003, 10:09 AM #31Thomas ZielinskiGuest
Re: 3G Mobile Signals Can Cause Nausea, Headache -Study
Yeah... drowning... severe steam burns... floods... dihydrogen
monoxide (or HOH) is pretty damn serious if you ask me! We should
spend more money studying it... in double blind studies... by people
in lab coats... the media would love that.. the people would
believe...
What a circus... Science education standards in this country are
extremely poor, to say the least.
-Tom
"John R. Copeland" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Specifically, the story was about di-hydrogen monoxide.
> Scary stuff, no?
> It actually can kill people!
> ---JRC---
>
> "3G Geek" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > This is somewhat off subject but this reminds me of a funny story I
> > read... There was an article written as a joke in a small towns local
> > newspaper that there was this extremely harmful chemical that had been
> > showing up HOH... (better known as H20 or water.) The whole town took
> > it for truth and started freaking out. It's just kind of funny, if
> > everyone avoided everything that the studies told us to avoid we would
> > live in a white padded room with nothing to eat or drink.
> >
› See More: Eur: 3G Mobile Signals Can Cause Nausea, Headache -Study
- 10-08-2003, 12:13 PM #32RDTGuest
Re: Eur: 3G Mobile Signals Can Cause Nausea, Headache -Study
In article <[email protected]>,
John Henderson <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Al Klein" wrote:
>> Because science, even the simplest science, is a mystery to
>> most people.
>Arthur C Clark once noted that science and technology are
>indistinguishable from magic to those who don't understand them.
Not quite. It was something more like any sufficiently developed
technology is indistinguishable from magic.
RDT
--
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the
inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
--- Sir Winston Churchill
- 10-08-2003, 01:20 PM #33QuarkGuest
Re: 3G Mobile Signals Can Cause Nausea, Headache -Study
Thomas Zielinski wrote:
> Yeah... drowning... severe steam burns... floods... dihydrogen
> monoxide (or HOH) is pretty damn serious if you ask me! We should
> spend more money studying it... in double blind studies... by people
> in lab coats... the media would love that.. the people would
> believe...
>
> What a circus... Science education standards in this country are
> extremely poor, to say the least.
>
> -Tom
And so are government standards for handing out millions for stupid
studies that prove nothing. Except fill the pockets of the people who
get the money to do these type of things.
I should try to get a grant to see if sticking raisons up my nose causes
cancer
Hamburgers cooked on a grill cause cancer.
Wait now it doesn't cause cancer.
Eggs are bad for you.
Wait now there not.
etc. etc. etc.....
- 10-08-2003, 06:23 PM #34Al KleinGuest
Re: Eur: 3G Mobile Signals Can Cause Nausea, Headache -Study
On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:28:37 +1000, "John Henderson"
<[email protected]> posted in alt.cellular.verizon:
>"Al Klein" wrote:
>> Because science, even the simplest science, is a mystery to
>> most people.
>Arthur C Clark once noted that science and technology are
>indistinguishable from magic to those who don't understand them.
Exactly. And everyday science is sufficiently advanced to be magic to
most.
- 10-08-2003, 06:25 PM #35Al KleinGuest
Re: Eur: 3G Mobile Signals Can Cause Nausea, Headache -Study
On 8 Oct 2003 14:13:52 -0400, [email protected] ("RDT") posted in
alt.cellular.verizon:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>John Henderson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>"Al Klein" wrote:
>>> Because science, even the simplest science, is a mystery to
>>> most people.
>>Arthur C Clark once noted that science and technology are
>>indistinguishable from magic to those who don't understand them.
> Not quite. It was something more like any sufficiently developed
>technology is indistinguishable from magic.
"Any science, sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from magic."
The corollary being:
"Any science distinguishable from magic isn't sufficiently advanced."
- 10-09-2003, 11:19 AM #36John Michael WilliamsGuest
Re: 3G Mobile Signals Can Cause Nausea, Headache -Study
Whytoi <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<011020031307517477%[email protected]>...
> In article <Mjqeb.640414$YN5.490491@sccrnsc01>, Hopper
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > X-No-Archive:Yes
> >
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > If true the implications for the 2.1 GHz band are not good...
> > >
> > > http://tinyurl.com/p873
> >
> > The thing that pisses me off about news stories of this kind are the
> > complete lack of reference to any information about the study, short it
> > involving the Netherlands.
> >
> > Where was this report published? Where can a person find the original
> > report? What was the title?
> >
> > There's just too many questions. Like what sampling did they do? What level
> > of significance? What was the test method? These can only be answered by the
> > original report, not halfassed Reuters reporting.
>
You can download a PDF of the study at http://www.tno.nl/en/news/article_6265.html
The first few pages are a Dutch summary, but the rest is English.
It was a double-blind study done by I think physicists and
electrical engineers. Their degrees are given, but not
the courses they studied in school; I doubt they studied
WCDMA effects on humans in school, so I don't think their
schoolwork matters (except that they passed, of course).
The pulse heights were 1 V/m, which is very low. Cell
phones produce hundreds of V/m at the head. Assuming a
5000 V/m transmitter and square-law nondirectionality,
at 1 m the height would be about 400 V/m. I don't know
much about PCS base stations, so I am pretty much guessing
at the 5000 V/m.
Anyway, adding a little directionality, the pulse E fields
would be comparable to those at about 20 m (65 ft) from
the antenna.
John
[email protected]
John Michael Williams
- 10-11-2003, 11:46 PM #37John Michael WilliamsGuest
Re: 3G Mobile Signals Can Cause Nausea, Headache -Study
OOPS! Correction below:
[email protected] (John Michael Williams) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Whytoi <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<011020031307517477%[email protected]>...
> > In article <Mjqeb.640414$YN5.490491@sccrnsc01>, Hopper
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > X-No-Archive:Yes
> > >
> > > <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > If true the implications for the 2.1 GHz band are not good...
> > > >
> > > > http://tinyurl.com/p873
> > >
> > > The thing that pisses me off about news stories of this kind are the
> > > complete lack of reference to any information about the study, short it
> > > involving the Netherlands.
> > >
> > > Where was this report published? Where can a person find the original
> > > report? What was the title?
> > >
> > > There's just too many questions. Like what sampling did they do? What level
> > > of significance? What was the test method? These can only be answered by the
> > > original report, not halfassed Reuters reporting.
> >
>
> You can download a PDF of the study at http://www.tno.nl/en/news/article_6265.html
>
> The first few pages are a Dutch summary, but the rest is English.
>
> It was a double-blind study done by I think physicists and
> electrical engineers. Their degrees are given, but not
> the courses they studied in school; I doubt they studied
> WCDMA effects on humans in school, so I don't think their
> schoolwork matters (except that they passed, of course).
>
> The pulse heights were 1 V/m, which is very low. Cell
> phones produce hundreds of V/m at the head. Assuming a
> 5000 V/m transmitter and square-law nondirectionality,
> at 1 m the height would be about 400 V/m. I don't know
> much about PCS base stations, so I am pretty much guessing
> at the 5000 V/m.
I usually work with power (watts/cm^2) rather than voltage.
I used the wrong approach to calculate voltage at a distance:
Voltage V of the EM field drops off as 1/r, not 1/r^2; the
square applies when the power (~V^2/Z) is relevant.
Let's try it again:
Broadcasting at 100 W, the field at 1 m would be
about 100/(4*Pi*r^2) or about 8 W/m^2. The impedance of
free space is Z = 377 ohms, so V^2/377 = 8, making
V = about 55 V/m.
So, with a PCS transmitter at 100 W, the Dutch study would be
at about the same level as would be found over 50 m from the PCS
transmitter.
This is quite a long distance and should raise some considerable
concern.
A 1000 W transmitter would produce the same effect as the Dutch
study out to about 180 m, and a 10 W transmitter out to less
than 20 m, which was about what I got the wrong way above.
John
[email protected]
John Michael Williams
>
> Anyway, adding a little directionality, the pulse E fields
> would be comparable to those at about 20 m (65 ft) from
> the antenna.
>
> John
> [email protected]
> John Michael Williams
- 10-13-2003, 01:20 PM #38RDTGuest
Re: Eur: 3G Mobile Signals Can Cause Nausea, Headache -Study
In article <[email protected]>,
Al Klein <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8 Oct 2003 14:13:52 -0400, [email protected] ("RDT") posted in
>alt.cellular.verizon:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>John Henderson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>"Al Klein" wrote:
>
>>>> Because science, even the simplest science, is a mystery to
>>>> most people.
>>>Arthur C Clark once noted that science and technology are
>>>indistinguishable from magic to those who don't understand them.
>> Not quite. It was something more like any sufficiently developed
>>technology is indistinguishable from magic.
>"Any science, sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from magic."
Nope, but close. Here is the correct quote, within one word of what
I remembered:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
-- Arthur C. Clarke. "Technology and the Future". Report on Planet
Three, 1972
RDT
--
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the
inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
--- Sir Winston Churchill
- 10-13-2003, 10:25 PM #39Al KleinGuest
Re: Eur: 3G Mobile Signals Can Cause Nausea, Headache -Study
On 13 Oct 2003 15:20:17 -0400, [email protected] ("RDT") posted in
alt.cellular.verizon:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Al Klein <[email protected]> wrote:
>>"Any science, sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from magic."
> Nope, but close. Here is the correct quote, within one word of what
>I remembered:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
> -- Arthur C. Clarke. "Technology and the Future". Report on Planet
> Three, 1972
I was quoting, IIRC, Don Martin's quip on Clarke's statement.
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